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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 13:33:12 -
[5851] - Quote
All in the name of an idea that prevents people from doing PvP activities against their enemies from a completely secure, unknowable position.
It has nothing to do with null sec at all. It's anywhere and everywhere in EVE.
It does not break scouting. It fixes it. If it's vital it should be at risk.
Massive buff to gate camps? So *only* cloaked ships can make it through? Does that not sound like there is a problem elsewhere to you? Because it does to me. Right around the time a single module starts becoming the go to device for entire swaths of playstyles, especially PvP playstyles, it's time to review the balance of that module.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1127
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 15:35:53 -
[5852] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Massive buff to gate camps? So *only* cloaked ships can make it through? Does that not sound like there is a problem elsewhere to you? Because it does to me. Right around the time a single module starts becoming the go to device for entire swaths of playstyles, especially PvP playstyles, it's time to review the balance of that module.
And once again your seemingly limitless ignorance for basic mechanics betrays you.
I'm sure you'll instantly post "Well I didn't mean that" or "It can have an exception", but the very fact you have not even considered and acknowledged it is beyond damning.
One more time. Go learn how the game you're so hell bent on breaking actually works, please.
Oh and prop mods also are mandatory on 99% of PvP fits. I suppose they're all broken too? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4474
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 15:48:02 -
[5853] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Right. If you recall I suggested removing capabilities not available in station, largely to support your 'save the titans!" Argument. If the cloak is going to be safe(er) than a station, then any in space activity not available in station that another player would have a need or desire to interfere with should be removed until the end of the targeting delay. If it's vital, it needs to be done at risk. You guys are such big proponents of risk I would have thought this would be an easy sell. If cloaked and until the end of the target delay, all you should get on your overview are permanant objects for navigation. Vision distance in space limited to 2.1 km. No scanning with probes or dscan. You get your safety right up until you hit something or choose to drop it voluntarily, and everyone is equally safe from you. Unlike now.
Well at least Mike is not somewhat more honest...he is finally coming out that he wants to nerf ALL cloaks.
This notion is ridiculous because it actually goes directly against the notion of what cloaking ships were designed to do.
Quote:Name: Pilgrim Hull: Arbitrator Role: Force Recon Ship
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships.
And what does reconnaissance mean?
Quote:re-+con-+nais-+sance /r+Ö-êk+ñn+Ös+Öns/ noun
- military observation of a region to locate an enemy or ascertain strategic features.
"an excellent aircraft for low-level reconnaissance"
- synonyms:preliminary survey, survey, exploration, observation, investigation, examination, inspection; More
preliminary surveying or research. "conducting client reconnaissance"
So what you are suggesting is directly in conflict with the very intent of this class of ships.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 17:29:43 -
[5854] - Quote
I understand it.
You just can't have it both ways. You want perfectly safe detailed Intel, absolute command of combat initiative combined with station level security on demand at any point in time and space.
If anyone suggested some new module that did that same job, perhaps a mobile forcefield generator, you would need to be hospitalized from tripping over yourself in your eagerness to laugh the poor fool from the forums.
But cloaks are ok because *reasons* |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15986
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 18:18:29 -
[5855] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: But cloaks are ok because *reasons*
Cloaks are indeed fine.
But it's not "reasons", it's for a number of legitimate reasons that you have already had detailed in this thread for you repeatedly.
But in the depths of your self absorption and dishonesty, you didn't even listen.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
585
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Posted - 2016.01.29 20:21:21 -
[5856] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:I did answer it. You trade the missing services for mobility and the ability to have your safety anywhere in space you choose so long as it's not right next to an object.
What needs removed are those things that affect other players, like gathering detailed Intel on them, or setting them up for ambush.
The argument presented was that cloaks are meant for safety. You can't be safe in space and engaged in activities that others have a need or desire to stop.
No setting up for ambush when safe, so you want to get rid of station games as well? Gate camps too? Logoff traps?
Your last sentence is ridiculous. I want market trading to stop so I get a better price on my next ship. OMG, it's not fair, someone can play the maket while safe! I want boosting to stop, OMG, let's not let anyone boost from inside a POS shield. I want to be able to jump into a system and travel safely through null, nerf gatecamps! They know they are the only ones in that system and are 100% safe, thanks to local! Nerf local and gate camps!
Mike, I've asked you this half a dozen times at this point and you never answered. Have you ever lived outside of HS, and if you did, what percent of your time were you in standing defense fleets?
Mike Voidstar wrote:I understand it.
You just can't have it both ways. You want perfectly safe detailed Intel, absolute command of combat initiative combined with station level security on demand at any point in time and space.
If anyone suggested some new module that did that same job, perhaps a mobile forcefield generator, you would need to be hospitalized from tripping over yourself in your eagerness to laugh the poor fool from the forums.
But cloaks are ok because *reasons*
Station level security? Jesus, catch someone logging on/off, watchlist them, get their safe and trap them there. How do you think supers are hunted when moving?
I have perfectly safe absolute intel with an alt docked up watching local, and a gang gatecamping next door in SOV null. By far safer than cloaks, and even better intel/combat dictation. I look forward to you not commenting on this. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4477
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 21:34:50 -
[5857] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:I understand it.
You just can't have it both ways. You want perfectly safe detailed Intel, absolute command of combat initiative combined with station level security on demand at any point in time and space.
If anyone suggested some new module that did that same job, perhaps a mobile forcefield generator, you would need to be hospitalized from tripping over yourself in your eagerness to laugh the poor fool from the forums.
But cloaks are ok because *reasons*
Let me get this straight....
Back when local was the topic, about 75 pages ago or whatever, you argued the following:
--Local is fine, it was totally intended (as an intel mechanic) by the developers.
I replied with:
--We don't know that it was intended as an intel mechanic at all. In fact, we have some reason to doubt that.
Now, when confronted with exactly the same argument you made with explicit ironclad evidence from CCP no less that gathering intel via a covert ops cloak is exactly what they did indeed intend...you're response is...that I want to have it both ways?
And perfectly safe detailed intel is not a function of cloaks. Not in the least. It can be gathered in any ship because a player using any ship can:
1. Look at local once he is in system. 2. Use d-scan in any system he is in. 3. Can fit a probe launcher to his ship*.
Hmmm....no cloak on that list. The first 2 are easy to do in something like an interceptor. And one can fit a probe launcher on an interceptor as well and chances are you'll never catch him.
*Assuming he has the slots and fitting capability--i.e. a shuttle is out on this last one.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 01:11:21 -
[5858] - Quote
You know what you get with the cloak? That perfect safety.
Local does not provide detailed info. It provides exactly one piece of intel, the most basic--- who is in the solar system with you. Not where, not in what, now what they are doing, not who they are with. All else you get from it is available freely from the neocon, the result of either guesswork and assumptions, or third party tools.
You can collect detailed intel in any ship you please, but you should not be able to do so from an unbreakably safe position. What you want is to preserve your passive, perfect safety while still being able to perform other useful PvP functions. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15990
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 01:12:12 -
[5859] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:You know what you get with the cloak? That perfect safety.
It's not perfect safety, liar.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2511
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 04:34:14 -
[5860] - Quote
I still think players need a counter to AFK cloakers to prevent them sitting in a system for hours on end.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4478
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 06:20:56 -
[5861] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:You know what you get with the cloak? That perfect safety.
This is simply untrue...and when somebody says or writes something that is untrue, what does that make them? Refer to Kaarous' post if you aren't sure of the answer.
Quote:Local does not provide detailed info. It provides exactly one piece of intel, the most basic--- who is in the solar system with you.
Which is probably the single most important bit of intel in the vast majority of cases in NS.
Quote:Not where, not in what, now what they are doing, not who they are with. All else you get from it is available freely from the neocon, the result of either guesswork and assumptions, or third party tools.
Which only work because of local.
Quote:You can collect detailed intel in any ship you please, but you should not be able to do so from an unbreakably safe position. What you want is to preserve your passive, perfect safety while still being able to perform other useful PvP functions.
The sheer number of dead cloaked ships on the KBs points out to the competely and utter stupidity of what you just wrote Mike.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4478
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 06:21:52 -
[5862] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I still think players need a counter to AFK cloakers to prevent them sitting in a system for hours on end.
Sure and a number of those counters have been described repeatedly in this thread.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15991
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 12:27:21 -
[5863] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I still think players need a counter to AFK cloakers to prevent them sitting in a system for hours on end.
There are several already.
Leave the system, for starters. Then camp the out gate. He is either neutralized or eventually dead.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 14:56:39 -
[5864] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:You know what you get with the cloak? That perfect safety. This is simply untrue...and when somebody says or writes something that is untrue, what does that make them? Refer to Kaarous' post if you aren't sure of the answer. Quote:Local does not provide detailed info. It provides exactly one piece of intel, the most basic--- who is in the solar system with you. Which is probably the single most important bit of intel in the vast majority of cases in NS. Quote:Not where, not in what, now what they are doing, not who they are with. All else you get from it is available freely from the neocon, the result of either guesswork and assumptions, or third party tools. Which only work because of local. Quote:You can collect detailed intel in any ship you please, but you should not be able to do so from an unbreakably safe position. What you want is to preserve your passive, perfect safety while still being able to perform other useful PvP functions. The sheer number of dead cloaked ships on the KBs points out to the competely and utter stupidity of what you just wrote Mike.
Dead ships with cloaks, not dead cloaked ships.
It's impossible to even get on grid with a cloaked ship. It's impossible to target a cloaked ship on grid. If you are close enough to hit a cloaked ship with a smartbomb it's because he was just incompetent, or he was not able to use the cloak because he just came through a gate.
Just because ships with cloaks mounted die does not mean the cloaks are ludicrously OP. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 15:22:44 -
[5865] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I still think players need a counter to AFK cloakers to prevent them sitting in a system for hours on end. There are several already. Leave the system, for starters. Then camp the out gate. He is either neutralized or eventually dead.
That's why you are the brains of the outfit...
Hey, let's stop playing the game and doing activities we enjoy, abandon the space to the enemy, then sit and do nothing but stare at eachother on the outgate for hours....
Fun and riveting gameplay there, crapstain. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1136
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 16:00:52 -
[5866] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: Dead ships with cloaks, not dead cloaked ships.
It's impossible to even get on grid with a cloaked ship. It's impossible to target a cloaked ship on grid. If you are close enough to hit a cloaked ship with a smartbomb it's because he was just incompetent, or he was not able to use the cloak because he just came through a gate.
Just because ships with cloaks mounted die does not mean the cloaks are ludicrously OP.
That's not how you kill them. But don't let me stop your tirade demonstrating how little you know about how the game with trivial details such as reality. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15991
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 16:23:49 -
[5867] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: Hey, let's stop playing the game and doing activities we enjoy, abandon the space to the enemy, then sit and do nothing but stare at eachother on the outgate for hours....
Of course. That's what you get for letting him in to begin with.
You allowed him to enter by not defending your in gates, so now you have to deal with him. It's not like you're doing anything worthwhile to begin with if you only have just the one system.
Quote: Fun and riveting gameplay there, crapstain.
Reported. Learn to be civil for once.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4483
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 20:25:29 -
[5868] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Dead ships with cloaks, not dead cloaked ships.
It's impossible to even get on grid with a cloaked ship. It's impossible to target a cloaked ship on grid. If you are close enough to hit a cloaked ship with a smartbomb it's because he was just incompetent, or he was not able to use the cloak because he just came through a gate.
Just because ships with cloaks mounted die does not mean the cloaks are ludicrously OP.
Right because a cloaked ship is never decloaked against the cloaking pilots will.
Again Mike that was an incredibly stupid thing to write. Bubbles combined with objects, or just objects make cloaking far, far less than "station level security".
Try this: in a cloaking ship warp into an anomaly and see what happens. Some you might be fine, others you'll likely be decloaked immediately.
The safety you keep harping on about exists at a safe and only at that safe.
Try this fit an ares with the following: Magnetometric Backup Array II and a ECCM - Magnetometric II
What do you notice about this ship? Once you are off the gate/grid and at a safe....?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4484
|
Posted - 2016.01.31 00:40:05 -
[5869] - Quote
Hi Mike do you have anything to say?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
586
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 04:01:20 -
[5870] - Quote
Mike, I'm going to ask you this for the seventh time now. It's getting ridiculous how you pont-blank refuse to answer this question.
Have you ever lived outside of HS, and if you did, what percent of your time were you in standing defense fleets?
I'm loving the fact that you will ignore this and refuse to answer for a 7th time. Looking forward to asking this question yet again in a day or so. |
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RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
12
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Posted - 2016.02.01 06:15:44 -
[5871] - Quote
One "pilot" whines and drones on with circular self-serving argument. Seven other pilots respond reasonably and coherently regarding cloaks working as intended. Single 'pilot' repeats ad naseum circles.
Let the dude be the sole poster in this thread. CCP is probably not going to change anything for one particular nullsec whinebear :) |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 14:21:16 -
[5872] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Mike, I'm going to ask you this for the seventh time now. It's getting ridiculous how you pont-blank refuse to answer this question.
Have you ever lived outside of HS, and if you did, what percent of your time were you in standing defense fleets?
I'm loving the fact that you will ignore this and refuse to answer for a 7th time. Looking forward to asking this question yet again in a day or so.
I have answered many times.
Yes, I have lived in every area of space. Yes, I have participated in defense fleets. Most boring thing in the history of ever. It was a large contributing factor to my leaving, as they consumed all of my available playtime and saw very little of any sort of interesting play.
Do you in fact have a point? What does it have to do with anything.
The problem with cloaks is present in every area of space, not just null. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1139
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 14:33:02 -
[5873] - Quote
If you lived in every area of space you'd have a significantly large idea about the basics, like how gate camps work for example. you learn that by day 2, or you die in a fire. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
587
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 17:58:23 -
[5874] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:I have answered many times.
Yes, I have lived in every area of space. Yes, I have participated in defense fleets. Most boring thing in the history of ever. It was a large contributing factor to my leaving, as they consumed all of my available playtime and saw very little of any sort of interesting play.
Do you in fact have a point? What does it have to do with anything.
The problem with cloaks is present in every area of space, not just null.
The point? There are already counters to cloaks, and you're choosing not to use them.
How are standing fleets boring? You just stay in a fleet and rat/mine/do industry/whatever like you would anyway. If someone in your fleet gets dropped, they yell on comms and everyone takes 10 seconds to reship to combat and takes down the baddies.
Mike, it sounds like you simply don't like null. There's nothing wrong with that, but yes, defending your space when you're choosing to own a part of space WILL take a lot of your time. That's the tradeoff for actually living somewhere where you have to own space.
There is nothing wrong with the game's mechanics. You just seem to not like the effort and coordination it takes to live outside of HS. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1116
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 18:10:04 -
[5875] - Quote
There is a great deal wrong with cloaks.
But it's not just a problem in Null. The thread happens to be about one particular excess in how they get used, but it's just a symptom of the problem. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16119
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 19:12:59 -
[5876] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:There is a great deal wrong with cloaks.
So far, you've failed to prove that there is anything whatsoever wrong with cloaks, you've just repeatedly expressed that your personal dislike of them should result in them being completely gutted as a mechanic.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
588
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 19:33:28 -
[5877] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:There is a great deal wrong with cloaks.
But it's not just a problem in Null. The thread happens to be about one particular excess in how they get used, but it's just a symptom of the problem.
Yes this discussion is only about null.
HS: No one complains about cloak usage in HS. In HS you assume you will be ganked at any time if you fly bling anyway, regardless of who else is in system with you.
LS: If you/your friends aren't the only ones in system, you assume someone is trying to hunt you anyway. By and large (other than exploration and the occasional burner) PvE doesn't really happen in LS
WH: You won't find a single wormholer complaining about cloaks.
Nullseccers are literally the only ones who have problems with cloaks, and that's because they want the benefit of living in and owning dangerous space without the effort it takes to defend it. |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2016.02.01 22:03:41 -
[5878] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:There is a great deal wrong with cloaks.
But it's not just a problem in Null. The thread happens to be about one particular excess in how they get used, but it's just a symptom of the problem. Yes this discussion is only about null. HS: No one complains about cloak usage in HS. In HS you assume you will be ganked at any time if you fly bling anyway, regardless of who else is in system with you. LS: If you/your friends aren't the only ones in system, you assume someone is trying to hunt you anyway. By and large (other than exploration and the occasional burner) PvE doesn't really happen in LS WH: You won't find a single wormholer complaining about cloaks. Nullseccers are literally the only ones who have problems with cloaks, and that's because they want the benefit of living in and owning dangerous space without the effort it takes to defend it.
The issue is that there is no real counter to cloaks. Anyone can cloak in low sec or null or in WH space(high sec the point is kind of moot except in war decs) with impunity. Or maybe it's not an issue.. depending on ow you look at it.
Basicly (and it's been done), you can cloak up and wait. pick a system in null. cloak up and wait. monitor traffic in and out. monitor daily activity. maybe your starting to chat with the locals. all your looking for is that big score for the killboards.
You don't have to threaten their sov, so its not really about attacking / defending sov. what you have here, is an opportunity to hunt and wait for a target without any impunity. There is no counter. It's all about how patient you are ( and maybe your friends that might be waiting for a covert cyno).
And the best part, you don't even have to do anything for that day! you can dedicate an alt to this! your in place with a covert cloak. you can jump around and just let it sit. maybe you'll loose connection, maybe not. doesn't matter unless you drop your covert cloak. They really can't hunt you. Maybe they set up a trap.. but most are easy to see. you just have to sit and wait for the kill.
Maybe it's in a J space, but if your hunting and the hole closes, you can just probe down the new hole when it spawns. same thing. there is no counter. Only in J - space, you dont know if anyone else is there or not unless you pick them up on DSCAN or with probes. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4566
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 00:44:25 -
[5879] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:There is a great deal wrong with cloaks.
But it's not just a problem in Null. The thread happens to be about one particular excess in how they get used, but it's just a symptom of the problem. Yes this discussion is only about null. HS: No one complains about cloak usage in HS. In HS you assume you will be ganked at any time if you fly bling anyway, regardless of who else is in system with you. LS: If you/your friends aren't the only ones in system, you assume someone is trying to hunt you anyway. By and large (other than exploration and the occasional burner) PvE doesn't really happen in LS WH: You won't find a single wormholer complaining about cloaks. Nullseccers are literally the only ones who have problems with cloaks, and that's because they want the benefit of living in and owning dangerous space without the effort it takes to defend it. The issue is that there is no real counter to cloaks. Anyone can cloak in low sec or null or in WH space(high sec the point is kind of moot except in war decs) with impunity. Or maybe it's not an issue.. depending on ow you look at it. Basicly (and it's been done), you can cloak up and wait. pick a system in null. cloak up and wait. monitor traffic in and out. monitor daily activity. maybe your starting to chat with the locals. all your looking for is that big score for the killboards. You don't have to threaten their sov, so its not really about attacking / defending sov. what you have here, is an opportunity to hunt and wait for a target without any impunity. There is no counter. It's all about how patient you are ( and maybe your friends that might be waiting for a covert cyno). And the best part, you don't even have to do anything for that day! you can dedicate an alt to this! your in place with a covert cloak. you can jump around and just let it sit. maybe you'll loose connection, maybe not. doesn't matter unless you drop your covert cloak. They really can't hunt you. Maybe they set up a trap.. but most are easy to see. you just have to sit and wait for the kill. Maybe it's in a J space, but if your hunting and the hole closes, you can just probe down the new hole when it spawns. same thing. there is no counter. Only in J - space, you dont know if anyone else is there or not unless you pick them up on DSCAN or with probes.
Counters have been given repeatedly in this thread.
Move over a system. Use a standing fleet while ratting with multiple people in the same system. Rat in fleet together with PvP oriented fits, 6 or 7 PvP fit ishtars will burn down sanctums pretty quick and anyone decloaks the 2,400-3,000 DPS will make it a short problem. Figure out if he is actually AFK or not or at least get a pretty good idea.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
588
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 00:54:25 -
[5880] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:The issue is that there is no real counter to cloaks. Anyone can cloak in low sec or null or in WH space(high sec the point is kind of moot except in war decs) with impunity. Or maybe it's not an issue.. depending on ow you look at it.
Basicly (and it's been done), you can cloak up and wait. pick a system in null. cloak up and wait. monitor traffic in and out. monitor daily activity. maybe your starting to chat with the locals. all your looking for is that big score for the killboards.
You don't have to threaten their sov, so its not really about attacking / defending sov. what you have here, is an opportunity to hunt and wait for a target without any impunity. There is no counter. It's all about how patient you are ( and maybe your friends that might be waiting for a covert cyno).
And the best part, you don't even have to do anything for that day! you can dedicate an alt to this! your in place with a covert cloak. you can jump around and just let it sit. maybe you'll loose connection, maybe not. doesn't matter unless you drop your covert cloak. They really can't hunt you. Maybe they set up a trap.. but most are easy to see. you just have to sit and wait for the kill.
Maybe it's in a J space, but if your hunting and the hole closes, you can just probe down the new hole when it spawns. same thing. there is no counter. Only in J - space, you dont know if anyone else is there or not unless you pick them up on DSCAN or with probes.
If you're outside of HS and aren't in a standing defense fleet that can protect your PvE-ing from anything a cloaked ship can bring, you have no business being outside HS.
Let's say you get hot dropped in your makanaw, great! I would trade a mack kill for kills of a blops gang any day. You are in that standing fleet, right? |
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