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Qjet
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:37:00 -
[1]
I have taken it apon myself to specialize in frigates, yet i normally fly in low sec space. So i run as scout and tackler for my corp. I've being at this a short while and im not bad at it, recently i took a break and my corp relocated. All my bookmarks which btw were MANDATORY in order for me to get around were no longer applicable. My corporation members acquired base bookmarks to get to their low sec base of operations (with an outpost in high sec) They had acquired these bookmarks before that wonderful addition to the bookmark system was introduced, and now thanks to that wonderful introduction i can no longer realistically acquire the bookmarks that i need to navigate in low sec space. 400 bookmarks, 5 each, each with massive delay. I can put them INTO peoples and places sure, but these are corporation bookmarks meaning that you must restore them. 5 each, with massive lag... bookmarks are duplicated lost and misplaced and because of that acquiring these bookmarks without stealing them is now totally impractical.
I play in low sec space
I'm stuck in high sec space
and this improves my game play how?
This patch made my life better... in what way? I would have the server crash every 10 minutes then be stuck in 0.9 shooting a rock for 5 hours... I want the bookmark system back until you are READY to introduce a replacement, not when you are "Possibly beginning to think about a replacement system"
You jumped the gun and untill you actualy get around to SOLVING the problem im going to be rotting in the most boaring place in existance. high sec astroid fields... Anyone else get screwed by this little development?
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Norma Stitz
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:44:00 -
[2]
smallest violin in the world is playing 'hearts and flowers'
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Bazman
Caldari The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Qjet I have taken it apon myself to specialize in frigates, yet i normally fly in low sec space. So i run as scout and tackler for my corp. I've being at this a short while and im not bad at it, recently i took a break and my corp relocated. All my bookmarks which btw were MANDATORY in order for me to get around were no longer applicable. My corporation members acquired base bookmarks to get to their low sec base of operations (with an outpost in high sec) They had acquired these bookmarks before that wonderful addition to the bookmark system was introduced, and now thanks to that wonderful introduction i can no longer realistically acquire the bookmarks that i need to navigate in low sec space. 400 bookmarks, 5 each, each with massive delay. I can put them INTO peoples and places sure, but these are corporation bookmarks meaning that you must restore them. 5 each, with massive lag... bookmarks are duplicated lost and misplaced and because of that acquiring these bookmarks without stealing them is now totally impractical.
I play in low sec space
I'm stuck in high sec space
and this improves my game play how?
This patch made my life better... in what way? I would have the server crash every 10 minutes then be stuck in 0.9 shooting a rock for 5 hours... I want the bookmark system back until you are READY to introduce a replacement, not when you are "Possibly beginning to think about a replacement system"
You jumped the gun and untill you actualy get around to SOLVING the problem im going to be rotting in the most boaring place in existance. high sec astroid fields... Anyone else get screwed by this little development?
Bite the bullet and travel without instas. Its not 100% idiot proof, but it is perfectly safe if you are attentive enough to watch what you are doing. Seriously. I, and many *many* others could circumnavigate 0.0 space without a single insta in a BS and live. All you need to do is setup to travel and pay attention to what your doing. -----
Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:51:00 -
[4]
Adapt.
~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
Cutie Chaser
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 09/09/2006 18:51:02 Shuttle + time = All the bookmarks you need, without the concern of mangling the corps' bookmarks
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Bazman
Caldari The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Adapt.
My post condensed into a single word. I love it -----
Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Qahlan
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:53:00 -
[7]
aaah, the poor low sec pilot can't make his own bookmarks and gets all mad when making copies takes time such a crybaby
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:48:00 -
[8]
hmm, i do see your predicament - i'd delete my toon and start fresh, i think
get a shuttle and go make some new insta's - c'mon, be brave, it's only high-sec!
This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++ |
Liklin
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Qahlan aaah, the poor low sec pilot can't make his own bookmarks and gets all mad when making copies takes time such a crybaby
what a nice child, i bet your mummys right proud of you to.
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Gift
Amarr Loot
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:05:00 -
[10]
no offense but if you can't live in low-sec with out instas, you might not belong there.
Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
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Sul Condbax
Small Change.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:06:00 -
[11]
I think the most incorrect view of the recent nerf to bookmarks is that we will no longer have them. The truth is that smart players make their own bookmarks anyway.
A trip of 10 jumps takes maybe forty minutes to make gate-to-gate instas for. I suggest the OP get started
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/09/2006 20:10:12 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/09/2006 20:08:28 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/09/2006 20:07:58
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Adapt.
Yes, which other game would be more fun for him?
Because a lot of newer players are making that "adaption" choice. You CANNOT avoid the need for instas. Oh, yes, "travel" setups MIGHT get you through the more brain-dead camps, but a little lag or people who know what they're doing and you're dead. And you can't PvP or PvE.
Sul Condbox,
"The truth is that smart players make their own bookmarks anyway."
Absolutely nonsense. Smart players don't waste a month+ making gtg instas for a region.
//Maya |
Michiyo Daishi
Royal Knights of Khanid
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Adapt.
My post condensed into a single word. I love it
Wins the thread tbh >
want a sig like mine? :D
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Reiisha on 09/09/2006 20:21:22
Originally by: Maya Rkell You CANNOT avoid the need for instas.
That's funny, i seem to be doing fine still after 3,5 years.
You realize you are advocating to keep a serverbreaking feature in the game exactly as it is, and ask the devs to magically recode the game to make database transactions 10000000% faster?
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:24:00 -
[15]
Yes, you just accept that you can't do a lot of things or you rely on an alliance with hundreds of people who DO use them.
Individuals, especially those such as yourself who support ripping out most of the core gameplay systems and who have suggested mechanisms which punish newer players viciously really have no bearing on how the less hardcore players play.
"You realize you are advocating to keep a serverbreaking feature in the game exactly as it is"
No, this is a PURE assumption on your part, especially given my support for another mechanism in other threads which I'm sure you will now claim not to have read... (so, 0km warp / new interdiction methods).
You're the one asking for the major recode which would leave Eve with only Shadowbane's level of players, not me.
//Maya |
Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes, you just accept that you can't do a lot of things or you rely on an alliance with hundreds of people who DO use them.
Individuals, especially those such as yourself who support ripping out most of the core gameplay systems and who have suggested mechanisms which punish newer players viciously really have no bearing on how the less hardcore players play.
"You realize you are advocating to keep a serverbreaking feature in the game exactly as it is"
No, this is a PURE assumption on your part, especially given my support for another mechanism in other threads which I'm sure you will now claim not to have read... (so, 0km warp / new interdiction methods).
You're the one asking for the major recode which would leave Eve with only Shadowbane's level of players, not me.
First, you are saying that you want to keep the insta functionality. Untill CCP comes up with a permanent 'solution', that means you want to keep them how it is now.
Valar has posted in another thread that bookmarks and insta's use a hell of a lot of database space and time, and a GM even prompted a message to the server saying that people should stop copying bookmarks. It's not an asumption that bookmarks are serverbreaking - it's a fact, which the devs have even acknowledged by saying that they *need* to change it.
Second, i've been in 3 major alliances for most of my eve life, and i've played since retail. And i can still say, lose insta's all together. I have made my points in several other threads to which you still have to reply, and i won't bother to repeat them here for that reason.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:46:00 -
[17]
"First, you are saying that you want to keep the insta functionality"
No, I have not. THat is your assumption, and is wrong again.
I want CCP to fix it with 0km warps or CorpBM's NEXT WEEK SOMETIME as a reasonable timeframe. That's "fix", not "rip out core gameplay system", note.
"Second, i've been in 3 major alliances for most of my eve life, and i've played since retail. And i can still say, lose insta's all together."
Yes, and all this proves that is you can't take into account what the people who have been in the major alliances for most of their Eve experience say - they have no idea of the play experience of the vast majority of Eve players.
You've made no point on this beyond "OMG I say nerf". There is no logic to ripping out core game systems and destroying the Eve playerbase, just the desire for a "hardcore" game, which as Shadowbane has demonstrated is NOT something which attracts a wide playerbase.
And sure, link. I'll critique your posts whereever.
//Maya |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:28:00 -
[18]
Quote: and this improves my game play how?
it lowers the load on the servers making the game less laggy. you might need to copy 30k bookmarks but i rather like it when my turrets fire right away and their fire command isnt stuck behind your precious BM copy.
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Valkazm
Amarr Cursed Spawn Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Norma Stitz smallest violin in the world is playing 'hearts and flowers'
hehe yup whining something thats suppose to improve lag tough luck ..
Cursed Spawn recruitment |
Lala Ru
Gallente Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:32:00 -
[20]
Wheneve I make a G2G jump that I don't have an insta for, I just make one if I have the opprotunity. Little by little, it makes a diffrence.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lala Ru Wheneve I make a G2G jump that I don't have an insta for, I just make one if I have the opprotunity. Little by little, it makes a diffrence.
In a combat fleet when you're moving and when you're in a combat BS?
Right. I've got that kind of "fleet" killed before by killing their only scout (with instas) 1v1.
//Maya |
matoni
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:36:00 -
[22]
Hey Maya what's with the quarreling with everyone in this thread? Bad day?
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Lala Ru
Gallente Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Maya Rkell In a combat fleet when you're moving and when you're in a combat BS?
Right. I've got that kind of "fleet" killed before by killing their only scout (with instas) 1v1.
You're right, you don't always have the opprotunity to make instas. Anyone jumping into a gatecamp is pretty screwed anyway.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:38:00 -
[24]
I'm holding a consistant course - this is just an example of the stupidity which is going to affect all newer players because of CCP's "fix".
Bad mood? Sure, that's why I worked out earlier. It's not affecting my posts.
//Maya |
Porven
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:46:00 -
[25]
And I suppose that everyone telling the OP to just get over it and deal with it have deleted all their own instas too?
No? Oh... well then I guess the OP has a very valid point. Just because the BM copy change doesn't affect the people who already have all the instas they will ever need doesn't mean its not a problem.
Personally, I don't care if they leave instas in or take them out altogether, but there should not be a class of player (vets) that gets to exert some amount of effort to get thousands of instas, while another class of player (newer players) who are dedicate themselves to exerting that same amount of effort get far fewer instas.
This "I've got mine, so what about you?" attitude isn't helping the game.
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Vance Moore
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Posted - 2006.09.09 21:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Qjet im going to be rotting in the most boaring place in existance.
If im understanding you correctly, you did some bad stuff and now you are stuck in a cell?
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 22:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lala Ru
Originally by: Maya Rkell In a combat fleet when you're moving and when you're in a combat BS?
Right. I've got that kind of "fleet" killed before by killing their only scout (with instas) 1v1.
You're right, you don't always have the opprotunity to make instas. Anyone jumping into a gatecamp is pretty screwed anyway.
...
When you're moving solo, maybe. But then you have 2 guys across the system and can't risk it. So you turn back. No instas. Sigh.
//Maya |
Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.09 22:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Maya Rkell I'm holding a consistant course - this is just an example of the stupidity which is going to affect all newer players because of CCP's "fix".
Bad mood? Sure, that's why I worked out earlier. It's not affecting my posts.
Newer players don't even know about instajumps.
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flummox
Circle of Jerks
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Posted - 2006.09.09 22:37:00 -
[29]
what about... for a day... there was no 'warp to 15km' for the auto-pilot?
just for a day? i don't know... let's see what happens?
... bring me my cheese... |
Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.09 22:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Maya Rkell And sure, link. I'll critique your posts whereever.
All right, i'll have a go.
If insta's are removed:
1) Regionalization occurs. Central mass markets will dissapear due to having to move further to get the resources. This will cause a massive decentralization of the entire economy in empire. This is a good thing, since it makes for a viable new kind of profession: Long range trader. Time and logistics now go hand in hand, making the economy less about undercutting and more about competition. Another great thing is that because markets open up, newer players have more of a chance to build up their own market empire. Item disparity will occur, which is a much needed event for the EVE economy - especially to cater to newer players who want to enter it.
2) Ship balance comes into play more. Ship speeds are now actually relevant. Freighter trading becomes a lot less alluring, freeing up market activity for newer players and traders. Escorting and scouting will now be necessary for large scale movements, which means that if alliances want to invade/conquer, they actually have to do that instead of weekend incursions. Interceptors and freighters now gain the difference in mobility they should have had in the first place.
3) As a result of the first 2, sovereignty becomes a lot more important. Logistics are hampered and alliances slightly impaired in their ability to sustain themselves. Big and small alliances now have the proper differences to make either one count (static vs mobile logistics). In other words, whatever an alliance does will 'count' a lot more.
4) With instajumps gone, people will adapt to their new situation. Once everyone has gone through the regionalization and has wavered out more, it means that relative action distances are the same while at the same time creating diversity in population. This also means that more people will try out 0.0, since alliances have to do the same thing.
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes, and all this proves that is you can't take into account what the people who have been in the major alliances for most of their Eve experience say - they have no idea of the play experience of the vast majority of Eve players.
Most of my eve life != all of my eve life. I've been an empire player for a while now, and i still don't see a dire need for instajumps. With a little bit of planning (you're playing EVE, who doesn't plan ahead in this game?), you can do everything fine.
Removing instajumps has massive conequences, but most of them are only for the greater good. Gatecamps and login traps are serious issues, whether instajumps are involved or not, but they are seperate problems which need to be fixed as such.
For now, "adapt" is the keyword here. As much as i'd like EVE to be a multi-million subscriber game, it simply isn't due to the niche it resides in. If the game gets a little more 'hardcore', as you call it, then let it - A change like this will make EVE more like the games it tries to emulate and improve on, instead of the thousandth generic grind/fantasy mmo. This is not a fast paced game, and it never has been, nor will it ever be.
Insta's were a "necessity" when server peak times counted 5000 people, right now they're a big, big burden. The main reason the devs have not bothered to look at this untill now is because before they *did* what you say they do, but with the current server population they just keep the database unnecissarily busy aswell as removing quite a lot of risk from the game.
Another key issue is that people think if you remove insta's, people won't find each other. However, with the dispersion of the population, they will find each other in the same time, maybe even faster, because everyone is closer to each other.
Go ahead, flame, i'm off to bed to get some much needed rest.
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