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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
239
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Posted - 2014.12.18 12:06:26 -
[1] - Quote
So currently the Sabre is the top kiling ship in EVE. Ok, that's explained by it's role as a fleet interdictor. But how do the other 3 interdictors compare, same role, right?
1. Sabre 2,232,625 kills 2. Flycatcher 381,117 3. Heretic 281,846 4. Eris 191,437
Yes, the Sabre has 2.6 times more kills than all the rest together.
Reasons are simple, Sabre is the most well rounded package for the task, combining tank, agility, speed, fittings and sig in pretty much perfect proportions. Compared to the worst of four, the utterly useless Eris, it's simply superior in every department. Flycatcher and Heretic at least have some strengths (tank, alpha), making them viable choices for niche situations.
I tried to make a list of what's wrong with the Eris, but it can all be compressed into one word: EVERYTHING.
But yeah guess this is just ranting and it's all balanced, and not all ships need to be viable for their role on TQ.
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
301
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Posted - 2014.12.18 12:13:11 -
[2] - Quote
There is no suggestion offered to be considered a Features & Ideas thread. Moved to Ships & Modules.
ISD Decoy
Lieutenant Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
239
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Posted - 2014.12.18 12:28:25 -
[3] - Quote
Very well then, here's a suggestion: increase Eris CPU so it can fit some modules.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
932
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:55:40 -
[4] - Quote
This is always baffled me. A rocket Flycatcher can sport a similar tank (more EHP, higher sig) to a Sabre, is almost as mobile as a Sabe, is easy to fit like a Sabre, and has better damage application than a Sabre. All I can guess is that the Sabre was the #1 choice for so long (Flycatcher only got this good recently) that it's got a lot of momentum behind it.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
240
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:04:36 -
[5] - Quote
Sabre is currently about 15mil cheaper than Flycatcher, but yeah it is a decent alternative. Sig is quite important for dictors, not only because of tank but lock time as well, which is also big part of why the Eris sucks so much. It has similar sig to a dual MSE Sabre when armor tanked, but nowhere near as much tank.
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Cheese Crackers
Opportunists Alike
14
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:46:44 -
[6] - Quote
i like whelp eris, one diction launcher and the rest dps, just buzz around blasting out that 600+ dps until someone sniffs in your direction. sabre is too 1337, hipsters fly eris. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
359
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Posted - 2015.01.20 16:00:32 -
[7] - Quote
Bump. Eris needs at least more CPU.
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Maeltstome
High Flyers The Kadeshi
633
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Posted - 2015.01.21 13:17:31 -
[8] - Quote
Reddit seems to have better banter - it's been discussed recently on there.
The Sabre isn't the best interdictor for killing ceptors or dropping bubbles and escaping again. It's a legacy thing that people keep assuming the sabre is best.
The Flycatcher can achieve over 30k EHP with overheated resist modules so it's a better fleet tackler, and the heretic has beetter damage application and range for killing ceptors.
The eris... well the eris is a thing... |
Elena Morin'staal
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2015.01.21 16:01:33 -
[9] - Quote
Pretty certain its got such a high number because in previous years it was easier to fit double bubble and cloak, or double bubble or something to a sabre than anything else. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
362
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Posted - 2015.01.21 16:28:35 -
[10] - Quote
Elena Morin'staal wrote:Pretty certain its got such a high number because in previous years it was easier to fit double bubble and cloak, or double bubble or something to a sabre than anything else.
Yeah, fitting is at the core of imbalance between the dictors.
As what comes to the popularity of the Sabre, it didn't vane with the bubble launcher changes. It is the top ranked ship, not just the dictor, by a fair margin. No other dictors even in the top 10 on zkill.
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Red Teufel
Mafia Redux
416
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Posted - 2015.01.22 18:25:04 -
[11] - Quote
Is a hull tanked eris any good compared to the sabre? |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
528
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Posted - 2015.01.22 22:03:46 -
[12] - Quote
The Sabre is probably still the best overall Interdictor, though the rebalance did create more room for the others to compete with it and the Heretic and Flycatcher can both outperform it in certain situations.
For fleet work where your job is to bubble and get out, the Sabre and Flycatcher are the best choices. The Sabre can get off grid faster (and the best way not to get your dictor killed in a fleet fight is to not be on grid), while the Flycatcher has a thicker buffer and holds up better under reps if you're in a fleet where your logi will be close enough to catch you. The Heretic only has three low slots, so it actually ends up with the same raw buffer as a fleet-fit Sabre while being significantly slower. I wouldn't recommend using them unless you were flying with an armor fleet and expected to have reps in range. The Eris is garbage for this, managing to be worst-in-class in almost every relevant category.
The Flycatcher and Heretic can both to good work in small gang situations, and their ability to apply damage outside of scram range (either 60km out with LML fits or just sitting at 20km with javelin rockets) means they can contribute damage in fights where a Sabre getting close enough to use its autocannons would be suicidal. The Sabre does have the potential to put out higher raw damage against defenseless targets and its high agility makes it better-suited for decloaks.
What really makes the Sabre stand out, though, is its excellent slot layout and fitting options. 2-4 is near perfect for the kind of agile shield tanking fits you want to use for small engagements. The Sabre gets to pick some combination of nanos, a briefcase, and a damage mod while still doing practically anything it likes with its midslots, while the Flycatcher can only pick one of the two the Heretic's armor bonus means anything it does in its lowslots is going to compromise something else important.
Lastly, of course, is the ludicrously small fitting on small ACs. A full rack of 125s on a Sabre has lower fitting costs than a single light missile launcher, which means that where Heretics and Flycatchers are often stressed for fitting room the Sabre can basically pick whatever it wants and still poop out 250+ baseline DPS
The Eris is a piece of garbage that somehow has less CPU than the ship with the easiest CPU requirements imaginable and it's a huge burden just to come up with sane fit that doesn't involve a fitting module. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
367
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Posted - 2015.01.23 11:01:56 -
[13] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:Is a hull tanked eris any good compared to the sabre?
Hull tanked Eris is also terrible.
It doesn't have tank, bulkheads ruin agility and use tons of CPU meaning even 9K EHP hull fit requires a CPU mod. Anyway, hull sucks in practical fleet use, since you can't be repped by logi, and you can't even repair the damage between engagements if you are in hostile space.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
905
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Posted - 2015.01.23 12:02:57 -
[14] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Red Teufel wrote:Is a hull tanked eris any good compared to the sabre? Hull tanked Eris is also terrible. It doesn't have tank, bulkheads ruin agility and use tons of CPU meaning even 9K EHP hull fit requires a CPU mod. Anyway, hull sucks in practical fleet use, since you can't be repped by logi, and you can't even repair the damage between engagements if you are in hostile space.
the 1% agility penalty is sooooooo terrible |
KnightMaire kings
Brutor Tribe
17
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Posted - 2015.01.23 17:18:23 -
[15] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote: What really makes the Sabre stand out, though, is its excellent slot layout and fitting options. 2-4 is near perfect for the kind of agile shield tanking fits you want to use for small engagements. The Sabre gets to pick some combination of nanos, a briefcase, and a damage mod while still doing practically anything it likes with its midslots, while the Flycatcher can only pick one of the two the Heretic's armor bonus means anything it does in its lowslots is going to compromise something else important.
Lastly, of course, is the ludicrously small fitting on small ACs. A full rack of 125s on a Sabre has lower fitting costs than a single light missile launcher, which means that where Heretics and Flycatchers are often stressed for fitting room the Sabre can basically pick whatever it wants and still poop out 250+ baseline DPS
This is why make it so I can fit guns and tank on other dictors amd they'll be used more
The only major drawback is the crazed notion that the inventory would look so much better if merely rearranged ONE MORE TIME.
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