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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 56 post(s) |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
1577
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Posted - 2014.12.17 09:44:15 -
[151] - Quote
Will this affect people who have small bandwidth Internet connections ?
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - ADAPT OR DIE - DELETE THE WEAK
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
584
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Posted - 2014.12.17 09:53:26 -
[152] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Will this affect people who have small bandwidth Internet connections ? Well, you're not downloading any more than you are today. When you installed EVE you got the full set of resources - when we switch over to this you will have an option to unpack your existing stuff files to save you from downloading them again. If you choose to download all resources you are guaranteed not to have any delays due to downloads while playing the game - it effectively behaves just like it does today.
If you are setting the game up for the first time on a slower connection, you at least have the option to start playing much sooner than you would otherwise.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Sturmwolke
601
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Posted - 2014.12.17 10:48:08 -
[153] - Quote
Ughh ... this is basically incremental DL while you play the game. Ok, I see the goal, but I can also see that CCP is increasing deployment complexity to achieve it. Basic immutable principle : The more complex things are, the harder they are to maintain and the easier it is to break them.
I would actually seriously question the management decision behind this effort from a holistic perspective, when you examine it for what benefits it brings and the total ownership cost for this project. Historically, from casual observations it takes typically 2-3 years for CCP to correct/iron out teething issues and this new initiative is no different. Remember the wonderful EVE LauncherGäó *heavy sarcasm*?
Do not implement technologies purely for the sake of blings and to satisfy the technology junkies in the company, while losing sight of the ground you're standing on. Do implement technologies when it is needed/necessary and with proper due process for ROI and ownership costs.
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
584
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Posted - 2014.12.17 10:58:32 -
[154] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Ughh ... this is basically incremental DL while you play the game. Ok, I see the goal, but I can also see that CCP is increasing deployment complexity to achieve it. Basic immutable principle : The more complex things are, the harder they are to maintain and the easier it is to break them.
I would actually seriously question the management decision behind this effort from a holistic perspective, when you examine it for what benefits it brings and the total ownership cost for this project. Historically, from casual observations it takes typically 2-3 years for CCP to correct/iron out teething issues and this new initiative is no different. Remember the wonderful EVE LauncherGäó *heavy sarcasm*?
Do not implement technologies purely for the sake of blings and to satisfy the technology junkies in the company, while losing sight of the ground you're standing on. Do implement technologies when it is needed/necessary and with proper due process for ROI and ownership costs.
This actually simplifies our deployment process, speeds up build times and improves the quality of life for developers inhouse. Oh, and there's the added benefit of getting players into the game quicker. So pardon me for being a technology junkie.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Sturmwolke
602
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Posted - 2014.12.17 11:11:34 -
[155] - Quote
CCP Snorlax wrote:This actually simplifies our deployment process, speeds up build times and improves the quality of life for developers inhouse. Oh, and there's the added benefit of getting players into the game quicker. So pardon me for being a technology junkie. Excellent to hear, but I'll take that with a grain salt if you don't mind.
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
677
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Posted - 2014.12.17 11:23:12 -
[156] - Quote
Jennifer Spearshield wrote:I also doubt that downloading 7GB worth of content ahead of actual game-time, which assures me 0 delay later on when loading assets or anything else in EVE's universe is really a big issue for most people these days.
Isn't that project kind of a waste of precious human resources?
A surprising number of potential new players sign up for a trial and start the download but don't complete it. This feature gives those people an opportunity to try the game more easily.
We throw around the term "New Player Experience" a lot around here, but this feature allows EVE to make a much better impression before people even get as far as making their first character.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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DoToo Foo
Setenta Corp AL3XAND3R.
46
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Posted - 2014.12.17 11:31:38 -
[157] - Quote
My production setup : multiple copies of launcher so that I can have default account names for different sessions, and don't need to re-enter username/password while swapping between PI alts.
Everything on D drive due to limited SSD
So initial install duality to d:\program files (x86)\ccp\duality copy folder to duality2
launch both : works OK. realize it is installing to C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE and change config on one launcher to d:\... This is automagically copied to second eve install (nice)
restart both launchers and start downlaoding shared data to d:\ProgramData\... .This seems to work OK.
Minor problem : rework production eve desktop icon (all good : recopied new link to desktop)
Base install completes on both windows (with some stutters but seems to work OK)
Major problem : Hit Play on both windows. Neither duality session works. Locked up and wont restart Try again with just a single duality session. Still locked up.
Some potentially useful logs out the primary duality install are at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h4q2dwhsdn2q2mk/AADkHbpsE3ZaNrapfDOfBK4za?dl=0 (a copy of the files in D:\Program Files (x86)\CCP\EVE-duality\launcher\cache -- excluding browswercache folder)
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
585
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Posted - 2014.12.17 11:35:07 -
[158] - Quote
CCP Snorlax wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I am an old ugly dude who thinks computers work by white magic.
Am I correct in assuming that I can just down load patches as I do now and log in to play as I do now?
I am sure the answer is, 'yes' but I would like to have it stated clearly.
Thank you. Yes. Forgot to mention that computers generally work by black magic...
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Catherda
Universal Industries Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.12.17 11:38:49 -
[159] - Quote
I currently play EVE using a 3G mobile internet connection, which works fine because of the small amount of data that is downloaded while playing (I patch my client through my home broadband connection).
Although I know the option to download the full patch files will remain, I'm curious to know how downloading on demand would work when playing on 3G. I get the feeling that it's going to eat away at my monthly download limit and make it a feature that couldn't be used for mobile internet players.
If it's the case that it would eat away at it then it would be essential to leave the option to download the full patch files before entering the game.
Another question I have is if there are other people using the internet, are they going to find they get big latency spikes as the client downloads on demand data from EVE?
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
285
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Posted - 2014.12.17 12:37:23 -
[160] - Quote
I give 100 +1's. I have the worst internet connection, 6Mb which actually runs at around 3.5Mb.
Initial login was sluggish (the longest part of the whole process) but once past that, things just worked. Even with my crappy internet it took less than 20 mins from downloading installer to login and undocking.
Once this goes live will I need multiple installs for multiple clients or will I still be able run my 9 clients as I do now from one install?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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Memphis Baas
23
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Posted - 2014.12.17 13:05:49 -
[161] - Quote
This seems like a good idea, win-win for devs and players alike. However, please please do extra QA / bug-testing on this, because any problems will obviously prevent existing players from logging in or playing their PVP properly after patch. You guys don't reimburse ships lost to lag or latency, and this has the potential to make it a big issue.
As a suggestion, please add options to the Repair feature to "download the rest of the assets" if we feel like turning the computer on at night when the internets are faster. It would be nice to not have to autopilot across the starmap in order to try to grab all the assets. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
1069
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Posted - 2014.12.17 13:38:14 -
[162] - Quote
Quote:What about slow connections?
You can use the offline installer, or you can wait while the launcher downloads everything. Or you can enjoy the fact that you can get into the game sooner, although load times before ships show up might be long when you see a particular ship for the first time. So... how do I have to imagine that when I am in a multi-system fleet fight. Do I need to wait until the client has downloaded all the gfx files before I see any ship, and while it does that I only have the brackets visible? I don't know, but if this is the case, getting into the game early and then seeing this is not something I as a new player would be looking forward to.
Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?
Also, as I do not really look forward to having to dl always all the stuff as I watch/listen to youtube or other things while I play and deem their downloading more important than EVE's traffic, will I be able to dl full patches when there are patches or are you going to force this DoD on me? |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1106
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Posted - 2014.12.17 13:38:33 -
[163] - Quote
Catherda wrote:I currently play EVE using a 3G mobile internet connection, which works fine because of the small amount of data that is downloaded while playing (I patch my client through my home broadband connection).
Although I know the option to download the full patch files will remain, I'm curious to know how downloading on demand would work when playing on 3G. I get the feeling that it's going to eat away at my monthly download limit and make it a feature that couldn't be used for mobile internet players.
If it's the case that it would eat away at it then it would be essential to leave the option to download the full patch files before entering the game.
Wat? At worst case, you have to download the same amount of data. Best case you have to download less.
German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1106
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Posted - 2014.12.17 13:51:25 -
[164] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Quote:What about slow connections?
You can use the offline installer, or you can wait while the launcher downloads everything. Or you can enjoy the fact that you can get into the game sooner, although load times before ships show up might be long when you see a particular ship for the first time. So... how do I have to imagine that when I am in a multi-system fleet fight. Do I need to wait until the client has downloaded all the gfx files before I see any ship, and while it does that I only have the brackets visible? I don't know, but if this is the case, getting into the game early and then seeing this is not something I as a new player would be looking forward to. I doubt many 1 day players jump into a large fleet fight right at the start. If they travel somewhere inbetween they will already have have seen a bunch of ships and thus already loaded the textures. How much space takes up a low detail texture? some 100kb? And you don't need to download it for every individual ship, just for every ship type. For example a fleet of 100 moas, and you just have to download a single skin. I can't imaging it taking long, even with a slow connection.
Rivr Luzade wrote: Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?
No, it will not be deleted. Why would you even think that? In the end, it will be the same size.
Rivr Luzade wrote: Also, as I do not really look forward to having to dl always all the stuff as I watch/listen to youtube or other things while I play and deem their downloading more important than EVE's traffic, will I be able to dl full patches when there are patches or are you going to force this DoD on me?
For the gazillions time, you can just tell your launcher to download everything. It's answered multiple times in this thread and in the dev blog itself.
German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
1069
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Posted - 2014.12.17 13:56:47 -
[165] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote: Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?
No, it will not be deleted. Why would you even think that? In the end, it will be the same size. The word "cache". Good if it isn't the case. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
932
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Posted - 2014.12.17 14:12:59 -
[166] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Does this means that we'll be no longer seeing "Traffic Control is currently offline and unable to process your jump request. Please try again in a moment" messages?
No. This message means that you are the first person to try to jump into that system since last down time. Its a common occurance on the test servers. Just click again in a couple seconds and you will get into system.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Tobe Araxus
Xoth Inc Usurper.
0
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Posted - 2014.12.17 15:08:59 -
[167] - Quote
Way to go guys... +1 |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
882
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Posted - 2014.12.17 15:41:15 -
[168] - Quote
Dear lord Gargant. Please update OP with a few FAQs so people stop asking, "So if I undock too quick will I not see anything?" |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5622
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Posted - 2014.12.17 15:43:03 -
[169] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Quote:What about slow connections?
You can use the offline installer, or you can wait while the launcher downloads everything. Or you can enjoy the fact that you can get into the game sooner, although load times before ships show up might be long when you see a particular ship for the first time. So... how do I have to imagine that when I am in a multi-system fleet fight. Do I need to wait until the client has downloaded all the gfx files before I see any ship, and while it does that I only have the brackets visible? I don't know, but if this is the case, getting into the game early and then seeing this is not something I as a new player would be looking forward to. Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer? Also, as I do not really look forward to having to dl always all the stuff as I watch/listen to youtube or other things while I play and deem their downloading more important than EVE's traffic, will I be able to dl full patches when there are patches or are you going to force this DoD on me?
You didn't read the whole article, let alone the thread did you?
1) You'll have the low-quality models before you see any other ships at the very least, and I can't think of a plausible case where any new player will be in multi-system battles, let alone large fleets.
2) That would be absurd to delete and re-download ship models over and over, wouldn't it?
3) Yes, you have the option to download everything all at once.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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CCP Maxwell
C C P C C P Alliance
43
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Posted - 2014.12.17 15:54:29 -
[170] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote: Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?
No, it will not be deleted. Why would you even think that? In the end, it will be the same size. The word "cache". Good if it isn't the case.
OK, that's perhaps a source of confusion. We tend to use the word 'cache' for the download location in this context. But rest assured, if you have downloaded the resource once, you will not have to do so again next time you log in.
CCP Maxwell - QA Engineer - Team RnB
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DmitryEKT
AMMO INC
125
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Posted - 2014.12.17 16:58:27 -
[171] - Quote
Let's say I have 3 clients. All 3 clients are sharing the new cache. I have all 3 logged in, and in space on the same grid. Suddenly an enemy fleet of 50 different ships all jump in on us.
Here's the question: since my 3 clients are all now scrambling to read from the same cached files, will this cause them to load stuff in slower? Or is it no worse than if all 3 are reading from their own separate cache files simultaneously? |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
590
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Posted - 2014.12.17 17:11:51 -
[172] - Quote
DmitryEKT wrote:Let's say I have 3 clients. All 3 clients are sharing the new cache. I have all 3 logged in, and in space on the same grid. Suddenly an enemy fleet of 50 different ships all jump in on us.
Here's the question: since my 3 clients are all now scrambling to read from the same cached files, will this cause them to load stuff in slower? Or is it no worse than if all 3 are reading from their own separate cache files simultaneously? No worse - in fact it will probably be faster as there is less trashing on the disk due to better OS level caching.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate Together We Solo
226
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Posted - 2014.12.17 18:14:17 -
[173] - Quote
So how is this going to work in conjunction with the ever present bug on Macs that causes the client to freeze up if things are downloading while in in game? |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5624
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Posted - 2014.12.17 18:25:32 -
[174] - Quote
Manssell wrote:So how is this going to work in conjunction with the ever present bug on Macs that causes the client to freeze up if things are downloading while in in game?
Hopefully it will lead to increased PC sales, and an increase of Macs for sale on ebay. :)
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
815
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Posted - 2014.12.17 18:43:03 -
[175] - Quote
Now able to get on today - thanks for the account mirror (although why it came up with only showing "less than day" on the sub time is odd??)
1) Right after selecting toon, I received a security alert from Windows 7. "Windows Firewall has blocked some features of this program" Doesn't bother me, but unexpected? Just flagging this in case something needs to be done in the build.
2) Now in station - ship spinning as usual, everything looks good. Discover that graphics are defaulted to all High - is that expected? Wasn't prompted to make a selection. Since I'm using an already created character maybe I'm past the step that would normally happen at?
3) Undock - 20 seconds of totally black screen (timed). Go from black screen to what appears is fully loaded space (nebulae, station, etc etc)
4) Warp to gate, with warp to - jump. Get a traffic control - but since the next system is probably not populated I can understand that that server needs to load the system. Gate jump looks normal, no warp tunnel
5) Check size of my SharedCache - sitting at 868MB (9K files, 257 folders). Then I realized that it was on C: drive! Ack! My SSD! Dang it. So closed client, and modified the Resource Download -> Shared cache location: to D: drive. Exited Launcher. Restart launcher. Launcher begins downloading 329.75 MB (from launcher progression bar). For my connection takes less than a minute. Working as intended! GJ CCP!
6) Client launch - 15 seconds of black screen, something comes up about login, then another 20 seconds of black screen before I get toon selection page. Select toon - 3 seconds of black screen. I left my toon in space from previous login :) so no objects in space, but neocom and overview are up. Another 45 seconds before I see space background and ship. Everything appears to be in high detail. I'm 14km off gate, so select jump of gate. Engine trails pop in. Gate jump goes smoothly (server preloaded now). Hit gate jump again. Decloak smooth. Open Char sheet and Mail and several other widgets - all open smoothly. SharedCache is at 768MB atm. Putz around for another minute just jumping the same gate back and forth. SharedCache now at 789MB. I keep checking the size for a minute - it is slowly building in size as I do nothing.
7) I go to a third system - jump gate. While in jump I get screen freeze for 18 seconds. This system has a new nebula so I guess it had to load that. SharedCache jump about 18MB's in size. I didn't do a before jump check, so estimating the jump in size.
8) Warp to anom. Takes about 15 seconds anom clouds to load. Info on rat immediately pops up, but rat ship graphic takes 10 sec to load. Large Collidable objects of anom take a bit to load (too many things to time). "Look at" of rat takes 10 seconds to execute - zoom to rat doesn't happen until graphic loads. Low detail first time, high detail second time (after about a 15 second delay when I realize I should look at it again). Go from frigate rat to looking at cruiser rat. 8 second in delay of "Look at", low detail model, then flick to high detail model after 10 seconds. SharedCache (SC) now at 842MB.
9) Warp to Customs Office - arrive edge on, so hard to tell if low res or high res model when I arrive.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Noriko Mai
1691
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Posted - 2014.12.17 19:25:05 -
[176] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Now able to get on today - thanks for the account mirror (although why it came up with only showing "less than day" on the sub time is odd??) [..] Do you encounter problems with you current TQ client after trying it? I had to redownload >7GB and all my settings are gone I don't want to set up everything again Cant' play with default crap Want play I don't want to set up everything again ... |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
590
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Posted - 2014.12.17 20:16:22 -
[177] - Quote
Manssell wrote:So how is this going to work in conjunction with the ever present bug on Macs that causes the client to freeze up if things are downloading while in in game? Well, the good news is that we finally have a reproducible bug that we are investigating.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Masao Kurata
Z List
172
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Posted - 2014.12.17 20:30:22 -
[178] - Quote
How does this interact with clients running different versions of EVE with different versions of the resources, e.g. tranquility, singularity and duality on a single computer? Do they share a cache and reduce duplication of resources? Do they have individual caches and identical resources across the client versions are duplicated? If the cache is shared, would one client ever end up deleting a resource that has been replaced only for it to be later redownloaded by the other client where that resource is still current? Would multiple versions of the same resources just build up endlessly even when they are no longer used by any current client version? |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
590
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Posted - 2014.12.17 20:36:07 -
[179] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:How does this interact with clients running different versions of EVE with different versions of the resources, e.g. tranquility, singularity and duality on a single computer? Do they share a cache and reduce duplication of resources? Do they have individual caches and identical resources across the client versions are duplicated? If the cache is shared, would one client ever end up deleting a resource that has been replaced only for it to be later redownloaded by the other client where that resource is still current? Would multiple versions of the same resources just build up endlessly even when they are no longer used by any current client version? The cache is shared between the different versions of the EVE client (or EVE Probe), so identical resources between the versions are not duplicated. If any given resource is not the same between versions there will be two different versions in the cache - the files will have different names. The name of any given file is simply a hash of the original filename, combined with a checksum of the contents of the file. This ensures no duplication of identical files, reducing downloads (and disk space) when jumping onto a test server while still accounting for different versions of content between the different servers.
We will provide a cleanup process to trim the cache to the current client version (possibly taking test servers into account).
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
815
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Posted - 2014.12.17 20:44:23 -
[180] - Quote
Part 2. Continuing to explore DoD
10) Warp/jump to next system. Hard core traffic control. Lightly loaded server is going to present a real obstacle to finding/judging jump graphics issues. Are delays due to graphics loading or server populating the system?
11) Docked and idled at station while I did a full service bio break. Checking SC size: Start 842MB -> End 1.25GB after being AFK in station for about 1.5hrs. 12,810 files Cool! Station environment definitely at more detail.
12) Going to AP to Jita (15J) so I have more things to look at and check SC growth from the trip. Traffic Control at first gate. Warp tunnel good. No load delay for nex system, but 10 sec delay for AP to start jump for next system. Space view flickered, so maybe a nebula detail change? Read the billboard news while AP slow boats to next gate. IGB popped right up with news page.
Posting this for now while I leave toon on AP and answer RL calls for chore execution.
13)
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff
CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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