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Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
0
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Posted - 2011.11.29 00:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am looking for a place to set up a POS in high-sec. I have hunted around a number of suitable systems, but every single moon is taken. Many POSs are operational and in use, but at least 60% are offline towers (usually small) with no other structures nearby. The only purpose they serve is to prevent others from using the moon. Obviously one can pay a fee, war dec the corp and blow up their unprotected small tower pretty quickly, but that's not really the point: it costs them nothing to leave a tower anchored in space, effectively claiming an area which another player could use. This seems to be:
a) achieving something for nothing, which is contrary to EVE's ethos; b) not the intended use of a POS. And I would guess that c) it probably puts off newer players who find space is "full"
Since POS mechanics are being reviewed perhaps something could be done to make players pay for the space they claim or lose their structures? I would propose some sort of timer (say a week or so) after which offline towers automatically unanchor themselves. This would give people who've taken a holiday (etc) time to recover if they forgot to fuel their POS properly. Some sort of failsafe would be needed to prevent exploitation, namely to prevent the tower being onlined for a few minutes once a week to reset the timer and then offlined again.
Thoughts? |
Velicitia
Open Designs
130
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Posted - 2011.11.29 01:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
minimum should be 30 days of inactivity (as with anchorable cans).
most of the time you'll find that the offlined towers are owned by corps that have either disbanded, have gone inactive, or may have simply forgotten about a tower because they moved and just never bothered taking the tower down...
send the owner an evemail, maybe they'll just pull it down for you. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
156
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Posted - 2011.11.29 01:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
You are not looking hard enough. I know there are empty moons within 4 jumps of Jita.
There are corps that make a living by ransoming POSes, and failing that destroying them. They leave a wake of empty moons behind them.
It is fairly simple to check eve-kill for hisec POS killmails, and check if the moon is still free. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2011.11.29 01:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tau this is intriguing, how does one use that site to look up only high sec control tower losses? I've never used it before is all, or knew it existed. I feel ashamed. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
172
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Posted - 2011.11.29 01:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Two things. First, just wardec and take the moon. It's only 2M and a bit of ammo.
Second. No, offline towers should never be simply removed. Some corps (like my own) have a POS but don't constantly use it due to fuel requirements. We do online it when needed, but it's not always needed every month. And we don't want to take it down due to the standings required to re-anchor it (requiring people to drop and rejoin the corp is just painful if you don't have to).
There really isn't a problem here. If you want a certain moon, take it. Otherwise don't complain about it, the system is fine as-is. |
Kaanchana
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2011.11.29 02:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
On a different topic, would it be possible for an abbadon to take down an offline small pos provided there will be no defenders? If so, approximately how long will it take?
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Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
26
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Posted - 2011.11.29 02:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kaanchana wrote:On a different topic, would it be possible for an abbadon to take down an offline small pos provided there will be no defenders? If so, approximately how long will it take?
Small tower AFK in a few hours.
I've managed to take down a medium DG tower in about 26 hours, minus downtime, solo before. Of course being a DG tower it had extra hitpoints. That was also with an alt that had large energy turrets 3, amarr BS 3 or 4, and sentry drones 3.
Skill up a little more it would take a little less time. Soloing a large tower, thats gonna take a while due to the shield regen rate even though the tower is offline, but it is still doable.
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Kaanchana
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2011.11.29 02:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breaker77 wrote:Kaanchana wrote:On a different topic, would it be possible for an abbadon to take down an offline small pos provided there will be no defenders? If so, approximately how long will it take?
Small tower AFK in a few hours. I've managed to take down a medium DG tower in about 26 hours, minus downtime, solo before. Of course being a DG tower it had extra hitpoints. That was also with an alt that had large energy turrets 3, amarr BS 3 or 4, and sentry drones 3. Skill up a little more it would take a little less time. Soloing a large tower, thats gonna take a while due to the shield regen rate even though the tower is offline, but it is still doable.
Thanks mate, so mega pulse apoc with 3 sentries, max skills must be good enough to take it down in few hours? I can add a torp raven if needed, but prefer to be afk. |
Gizan
Hounds Of War Bloodbound.
6
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Posted - 2011.11.29 03:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
find out your dps, then take the rep of the towers shields and subtract that from your dps, then take the ammount of shields/armor/structure and divide that by your dps(dps - shield passive recharge)
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
60
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Posted - 2011.11.29 04:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
If it's an offline tower, wardec and take a couple insured Pulse Laser Domis with t2 Heavies to go shoot it afk. (Best and cheapest [meta 3 guns] afk DPS availiable, is there anything the Domi can't do) Use an alt corp and your towers can stay safe while you do this. If you come back and find yourself in a clone vat, I guess they weren't a dead corp.
[Dominix, Afk Structure Deeps]
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I [Empty Rig slot]
Garde II x5
Just shy of 80mil per BS, 900dps with max skills. Drop the rigs to save 16mil and lose 70 dps. |
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Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.29 20:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah, was just going to add - make sure they are a dead corp before you go afk :).
Also, those damn Minmatar towers have 50% em and 25% therm resists, so it takes forever with lasers :(. It is almost worth it to load up a Tempest or Maelestrom with autocannons and pick a good ammo (i.e. fusion) |
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
0
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Posted - 2011.11.29 20:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am sure there are indeed empty moons within a few jumps of Jita, but it's like hunting a needle in a haystack. Most moons are occupied by offline towers. And yes, I can destroy an offline tower, but that is not the point. The towers are occupying moons - i.e. conferring a strategic advantage - without cost to the owner.
- If the corp is dead then its infrastructure should decay;
- If the corp is occupying a spot but not using it then it should pay for it (or the infrastucture should decay);
- If the corp is occupying the spot in order to 'ransom' it... then it should have to pay to do so (or the infrastructure should decay).
No doubt I will have to waste a few hours shooting one of these dead towers in the end, but I don't think the current system fits with the ethos of the game and it ought to be changed.
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Serial Chi
Dust Bunnies 514
47
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Posted - 2011.11.29 20:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
most of those offline towers arent there to block people from taking them. they are there because the owners dont want to grinding/buy the faction standings to set them back up when they return to the game/area. ccp should allow these towers to get unanchored and claimed by someone else after a certain amount of time of being inactive. |
Eric Raeder
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.11.29 21:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have an offline tower in wormhole space that has been there for nearly a year, and would self destruct if I could, the periodic notifications I recieve about it are annoying. I would definitely like CCP to put in some mechanic that causes offline towers to unanchor after some period of time. |
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
10
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Posted - 2011.11.29 21:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
To narrow down your search, i suggest first looking for a system that has cheap rent, and more than two available corp slots.
If lots of corps already setup in a system its less likely to have available moons.
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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2011.11.29 21:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm seeing the potential for a new sort of merc corp here. Pay someone the war dec fee, plus a merc fee, and they take down the offline towers around hi sec. |
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
0
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Posted - 2011.11.29 22:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
A low-risk way to test the new battlecruisers... now that's an idea. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
191
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Posted - 2011.11.29 22:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sapheni wrote:Obviously one can pay a fee, war dec the corp and blow up their unprotected small tower pretty quickly, but that's not really the point: it costs them nothing to leave a tower anchored in space, effectively claiming an area which another player could use. FYI, even a small tower costs more than a wardec fee. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
134
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Posted - 2011.11.30 12:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Serial Chi wrote:most of those offline towers arent there to block people from taking them. they are there because the owners dont want to grinding/buy the faction standings to set them back up when they return to the game/area. ccp should allow these towers to get unanchored and claimed by someone else after a certain amount of time of being inactive.
Sounds pretty good... how about something like this so we can have a numbers discussion:
30 days of inactive, then they become hackable (l4 or l5 required). You hack the tower, and it becomes yours. You have one hour to fuel it or it goes boom (or something, I dunno).
flying up to a tower, you won't know if it's hackable or not, so you just have to try with all offlined towers. If it's not hackable, you fail with some specific message that you're not able to gain access to the tower's computers (i.e. something really specific so you KNOW you'll never succeed). Otherwise, you just get normal failure notes (stuff along the lines of "almost had it ... maybe if I tried ...") or a success message. |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2011.11.30 13:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Serial Chi wrote:most of those offline towers arent there to block people from taking them. they are there because the owners dont want to grinding/buy the faction standings to set them back up when they return to the game/area. ccp should allow these towers to get unanchored and claimed by someone else after a certain amount of time of being inactive. Sounds pretty good... how about something like this so we can have a numbers discussion: 30 days of inactive, then they become hackable (l4 or l5 required). You hack the tower, and it becomes yours. You have one hour to fuel it or it goes boom (or something, I dunno). flying up to a tower, you won't know if it's hackable or not, so you just have to try with all offlined towers. If it's not hackable, you fail with some specific message that you're not able to gain access to the tower's computers (i.e. something really specific so you KNOW you'll never succeed). Otherwise, you just get normal failure notes (stuff along the lines of "almost had it ... maybe if I tried ...") or a success message.
Sounds good to me. |
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Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
29
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Posted - 2011.11.30 13:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Two things. First, just wardec and take the moon. It's only 2M and a bit of ammo.
Second. No, offline towers should never be simply removed. Some corps (like my own) have a POS but don't constantly use it due to fuel requirements. We do online it when needed, but it's not always needed every month. And we don't want to take it down due to the standings required to re-anchor it (requiring people to drop and rejoin the corp is just painful if you don't have to).
There really isn't a problem here. If you want a certain moon, take it. Otherwise don't complain about it, the system is fine as-is.
"System is working fine, because I benefit from it!"
Your post in one sentence... Spybeaver |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
190
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Posted - 2011.11.30 16:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:I'm seeing the potential for a new sort of merc corp here. Pay someone the war dec fee, plus a merc fee, and they take down the offline towers around hi sec. People do this for fun believe it or not |
Nullbear
Zerg Hatchery
0
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Posted - 2011.12.01 03:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Dorian Wylde wrote:I'm seeing the potential for a new sort of merc corp here. Pay someone the war dec fee, plus a merc fee, and they take down the offline towers around hi sec. People do this for fun believe it or not People do this for fun? Unpossible |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
66
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Posted - 2011.12.01 03:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sapheni wrote:I am sure there are indeed empty moons within a few jumps of Jita, but it's like hunting a needle in a haystack. Most moons are occupied by offline towers. And yes, I can destroy an offline tower, but that is not the point. The towers are occupying moons - i.e. conferring a strategic advantage - without cost to the owner.
- If the corp is dead then its infrastructure should decay;
- If the corp is occupying a spot but not using it then it should pay for it (or the infrastucture should decay);
- If the corp is occupying the spot in order to 'ransom' it... then it should have to pay to do so (or the infrastructure should decay).
No doubt I will have to waste a few hours shooting one of these dead towers in the end, but I don't think the current system fits with the ethos of the game and it ought to be changed.
The risk of losing the investment in the POS is a cost. The risk of a wardec from people wishing to remove the POS is a cost. Just because the cost isn't in ISK doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
1: If the corp is dead, wardec and bash away risk free. 2 and 3: They're paying with risk |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
180
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Posted - 2011.12.01 03:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
I cannot understand why people complain. In EVE, you don't really need a damn reason to do anything (don't like the dudes mustache, he parts his hair a way that makes you grind his teeth, and he is the same sex as you...reason enough to wardec someone ) and can just do what the **** you want, you don't need CCP to make it that much easier for you. Someone set up before you, they took that grid space first and you have no ******* right to to it except take it by force.
Its been pointed out how to handle the problem. Communicate with the Corp, maybe its abandoned. "Hey Broski's, I see a tower at X System, Y Planet, Z Moon I would like to take and its just a single tower you left behind, could you take it down". Wait a day or 2 for response, if nothing...Shoot the ******* thing with a wardec, AFK it takes less then a day or 2 if its small (bring friends if its larger). Send a message after the tower is down as a courtesy that the wardec was to remove tower that didn't seem to be in use, which is risk enough in itself to destroy it by leaving it out unattended. An unattended tower is not producing a tangible reward to the owner and no risk to you to shoot it down. BAM! Done, no need to get CCP to fix a small issue you can't get your own ass to deal with it. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
12
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Posted - 2011.12.01 04:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Eric Raeder wrote:I have an offline tower in wormhole space that has been there for nearly a year, and would self destruct if I could, the periodic notifications I recieve about it are annoying. I would definitely like CCP to put in some mechanic that causes offline towers to unanchor after some period of time.
+1 There are some very nice faction towers sitting empty near me atm I'd love to take and set up as operational POS, but.... |
Shik Koken
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.12.01 06:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Even with my freshly minted pilot license in my back pocket, I've learned that EVERYTHING including pilots themselves can be bought and sold in the Eve universe. I assume that maybe you should contact the owner or corporation and buy the space station off from them. Even though it may be a bit more than the cost of war deccing and shooting it down, it would save the aggravation and time. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
145
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Posted - 2011.12.01 12:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
offline towers in empire should always need a war dec, no matter how long they have been offline.
many people use them as and when they need to, so only onlining them once every few months, any mechanic that cleans away offline pos's is detrimental to others and there game.
so war dec kill them is the best way and imo the only way it should be CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
1
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Posted - 2011.12.01 16:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shouldn't all towers in high sec require empire charters to stay anchored? (Note anchored not online.)
If that was a requirement then you could have offline towers with charters in them to hold moons and if you forget/corp dies/people don't play, etc then the towers would unanchor and be "repossesed" by the empire they are in, (or perhaps, go back to the corp at the nearest station to the lost tower.)
This would take care of the issues of people "camping" a tower on a moon just to hold it, and not hurt those that do not want the tower constantly online.
Note this mechanic would only apply to high sec empire space, where you need charters to run a tower. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
3
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Posted - 2011.12.01 17:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bath Sheeba wrote:Shouldn't all towers in high sec require empire charters to stay anchored? (Note anchored not online.)
If that was a requirement then you could have offline towers with charters in them to hold moons and if you forget/corp dies/people don't play, etc then the towers would unanchor and be "repossesed" by the empire they are in, (or perhaps, go back to the corp at the nearest station to the lost tower.)
This would take care of the issues of people "camping" a tower on a moon just to hold it, and not hurt those that do not want the tower constantly online.
Note this mechanic would only apply to high sec empire space, where you need charters to run a tower.
I actually like this idea. If you need to have charters in your tower in high sec it should not matter if it is online or off line. the charter is you right to anchor in that factions space. without it you tower should auto unanchor in a set amount of time.
I would not bother with any repackaging or removal. just un-anchor and let it drift around the system.
If someone happens by the moon shortly after it unanchore they can scoop up the pos. if not it may show up in system scans and then then be found and scooped. say a month after it un-anchors it self destructs. |
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