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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
425
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Posted - 2014.12.08 02:04:37 -
[91] - Quote
Cajun Style wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Aurelius Valentius wrote:I am concerned that the language is "pass" and that the idea that the ships will be addressed on the basis of "feedback" - what does this mean? that if a ship isn't complained about in volume it will be left in a state of sub-par rendered appearance? If you feel my comments here have been light on promises: I've talked with my teammates and understand what their plan is for moving forward, but I am on the technical side and I can't firmly commit to specific art changes because it's not within my personal ability to make them. There's a lot going on in the art area. Priorities change based on what's doable, what's needed by the rest of EVE development, and what we think will have the best impact on the player experience. Frankly, it's far more than I can hold in my head and it changes too fast to come here and say "Here's where we'll be in February. I promise." What I can communicate clearly is that we care very much about EVE's look being as amazing as it can be. I'm posting this at midnight on a Sunday night because I care about the game, and the rest of our team are in the same place. Yes, your feedback is being heard and read. Yes, more of the team than just me are reading this thread. As far as what will happen in the immediate near term, here are some facts: Rhea's getting released on Tuesday, with PBR. Starting over the next couple weeks, people are going to be taking vacations for the holidays. This limits how much we'll be able to do during that time, and it limits how much response you'll get when you comment on the forums. However, the rest of the winter, starting the first week of January, will be a busy time and I think you'll find that the pace of fixes and changes will be very satisfactory. Thanks for all your feedback. Yes, we'll still be reading, and I'll try to post in relevant threads once in a while to let you know that's the case. people in this thread are managing to forget that EVE has always been a. gorgeous and b. a WIP visually, without clear generations of graphics change but constant work here and there bridging between the periods of larger, systematic graphical improvements, and the big leaps always leave some parts behind too, with old art assets sitting next to new, but even in eve's most dire days the art department has done a first-rate job and this is not a new approach for the game and it is not one that has failed before. (but oh dear jesus the stars really do look eleven years old)
I think I have been here a while longer than you have... and I haven't forgotten anything, it's that I remember and was present for most of EVE, I wouldn't have mentioned Trinity if I hadn't been there for it... e.g.
You don't need to be a fan-boi, the people here aren't throwing rocks, they care as much as CCP does about their game, and where it goes - we are saying critical things because that was what was asked - "yes, yes" doesn't help move things forward, and we are not in grade school where if you say something critical CCP devs will break out in tears... we understand they work hard, and they put a lot into the game we love to play.
I, like many have been here a long time, we (all) care about EVE, CCP and the people and game, we want it to be the best game out there (and it is in imho) and CCP is (having worked in a few IT companies) sounds like a great place to work if you passion is EVE.
The simple point is that some of PBR is not looking as it could, the idea is to get that on the radar and then make it work, my concern was that since this is the holidays and all, that perhaps it wasn't the best time to launch a all new product that will have some very visible issues in it on a holiday public that could cause some major crying and all when CCP is trying to enjoy the holidays - the reason I am concerned is because I do not want to see CCP have an issue like the "summer of rage" with the CQ and all that - I was there for that as well, and I remember a particular thread I posted that ran a few 1000s replies on it in a day or so about -1 no hangar basically being the content of commentary.
PBR will be outstanding, it will work well, it is an improvement, so don't think anyone is saying it will not be, what we are all saying (imho) is that we see issues with the current iteration and we are not sure how this will shake out for the current update with the time of year and all that.
But it's going forward, so it may be fine it may be rough going... will see, either way CCP will do what needs doing, and EVE will keep being EVE.
On that note, I wish everyone a happy holidays, and a happy new year.
EVE: Forever. |
Cajun Style
Shattered Planet
22
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Posted - 2014.12.08 04:01:27 -
[92] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
*snip*
On that note, I wish everyone a happy holidays, and a happy new year.
EVE: Forever.
ah, i get contrarian on the official forums against some of the whiners, i don't have i in me for an intensive discussion right now, i'm not super-dupes worried about PBR, but you make entiely fair points. also, it wasn't directly aimed at you. obvious forum alts/trader alts/whatever alts are obvious, I too have been around for a while. |
Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2014.12.08 09:43:30 -
[93] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Any idea when we might expect to see a prototype or opt-in (beta) ship painting feature? No please.... just, no...
My myself would love to see that, paint my proteus matte white with a shinny red stripe crossing its long axis...
And Petra would love to go smoke some synthetic ganja in a Minmanigro station where she can find some male strippers and transfer a couple of millions to that hot 14 inch mandingo for a lap dance and go gamble a hundred isk on a Slay game later... (I'm talking about Walk in stations here)
Yes i'd love to fashion up my ships and Roleplay a lil' bit, but I think this is not the place nor the time.
Because tities .
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1453
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Posted - 2014.12.08 10:34:56 -
[94] - Quote
I for one feel confident about your work on the PBR. Its nice to see the art team taking "risks" like that. As said before, its tricky to change the graphics in EVE, but hopefully the end result after a few iterations will be better.
Allow me to suggest something though. I'm not targeting a specific race or anything, but in general, I'd suggest that you reconsider the "aging" on ships. Some ships have dirt in their texture, others have their paint scratched off (i.e Cormorant).
I know it might be easier to render properly the texture of a ship through unperfection marks like these, but its not realistic, and it doesn't make them any more beautiful.
I'm sure I won't teach you anything if I remind you that in EVE, ships are mass-produced following a precise blueprint, I don't see how a ship freshly built could have already damaged paint on it. And even a ship that served for a long time couldn't have possibly survived after hugging asteroids all day long. So, there is no way a ship would have damaged paint like what we have on Sisi right now. The only thing I consider possible would be hit impacts.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1453
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Posted - 2014.12.08 14:50:27 -
[95] - Quote
Hi again,
Taking a close look at the Onyx, here is what you can see on the side : Red marks with a white outline, zoomed out it looks like a light red, really odd for a Kalaakiota ship, and quite out of place.
Now look at the prospect : Same red marks, but no white outline... Much better.
I suggest you do the same with the Onyx :)
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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Skurja Volpar
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
127
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Posted - 2014.12.08 16:19:24 -
[96] - Quote
Looks a little hit and miss so far in my opinion, most of the Amarr ships looks pretty amazing I must say, and Gallente BC and up look nice too , the shininess makes me pretty nostalgic.
But Minmatar and Caldari look like they're made of plastic right now. Seems like anything with flat surfaces is currently looking really poor. Rupture and Hel are prime examples for me. |
Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2014.12.08 16:23:29 -
[97] - Quote
Skurja Volpar wrote:Looks a little hit and miss so far in my opinion, most of the Amarr ships looks pretty amazing I must say, and Gallente BC and up look nice too , the shininess makes me pretty nostalgic.
But Minmatar and Caldari look like they're made of plastic right now. Seems like anything with flat surfaces is currently looking really poor. Rupture and Hel are prime examples for me. The Redeemer looks like plastic too.
Because tities .
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7263
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Posted - 2014.12.08 17:25:30 -
[98] - Quote
Petra Hakaari wrote:New devblog just got released regarding PBR: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/pbr-and-making-eve-look-real/ On this image there's the perfect example of the issues http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66739/1/megathron_new.jpg On the old one we can see the hues of the hull, the lines, the shaders, green and grey parts. On the new one the hues are gone, the textures look more uniform, however, we can see how the hull has gained volume, we can see how the light reflects perfectly on the lines, i dont know if thats created with parallax mapping or its just the PBR itself, but you can see an improvement, but its just that the textures are just not as rich as in the old one.
These details would look good only in HD textures under PBR. Look closely on them now on TQ. Do you think under PBR they would look better in current resolution? They were a second, "pretending to be more detailed", layer pretending to show finer details in the low resolution texture. Under bigger contrast in PBR they would be a big mess.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2014.12.08 17:30:26 -
[99] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:These details would look good only in HD textures under PBR. Look closely on them now on TQ. Do you think under PBR they would look better in current resolution? They were a second, "pretending to be more detailed", layer pretending to show finer details in the low resolution texture. Under bigger contrast in PBR they would be a big mess. All i know is that PBR as per now, its a wannabe...
Because tities .
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7263
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Posted - 2014.12.08 17:33:55 -
[100] - Quote
Petra Hakaari wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:These details would look good only in HD textures under PBR. Look closely on them now on TQ. Do you think under PBR they would look better in current resolution? They were a second, "pretending to be more detailed", layer pretending to show finer details in the low resolution texture. Under bigger contrast in PBR they would be a big mess. All i know is that PBR as per now, its a wannabe... Well, computer graphics in general is a big wannabe of a real world. I can't discuss that. Its known fact.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2014.12.08 17:52:52 -
[101] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Well, computer graphics in general is a big wannabe of a real world. I can't discuss that. Its known fact. Nice sophism.
Because tities .
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7263
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Posted - 2014.12.08 18:12:09 -
[102] - Quote
Computer graphics are sophistic. That is truth.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
66
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Posted - 2014.12.08 18:49:43 -
[103] - Quote
Okay, so i narrowed the biggest "ugliness" culprit down....its the "shader quality"
With everything else set on "high"...here is what happens with the model when changing "shader quality" from high-medium-low....something is off here....
High Medium Low
I suspect it is like this for numerous other ships as well. But since i'm paying you (CCP) to test these sort of things while you are developing them...and not the other way around...i have other things more important to do. |
Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
51
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Posted - 2014.12.08 18:58:40 -
[104] - Quote
What worries me, is that CCP consider the PBR megathron, to be better.
Perhaps I am going completely blind and mad, but to me that clearly looks significantly worse than the one next to it.
GD is going to go nuts tomorrow, it's a real shame. |
Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2014.12.08 19:28:19 -
[105] - Quote
Shalashaska Adam wrote:What worries me, is that CCP consider the PBR megathron, to be better.
Perhaps I am going completely blind and mad, but to me that clearly looks significantly worse than the one next to it.
GD is going to go nuts tomorrow, it's a real shame. Well, In some cses i think its better, as i said, you can see volume on the lines, but overall, its worse, but who knows, maybe you and I are on lsd or something xD
Because tities .
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
12
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Posted - 2014.12.08 20:36:01 -
[106] - Quote
I agree that a lot of ships lost a lot of detail for the sake of "MOAR BRIGHTSSSS!!!! MOAR SHINEZZ!!!" than actual enhancements.
I know they are working to update the whole graphics system, but instead of putting all the pieces together and releasing one frikin ridiculous amazing update, they are releasing each part of the system on its own. Even though each segment doesn't exactly make the remaining older segments look very good, and in a lot of cases quite a bit worse. To top it off because they are doing it piecemeal they are getting flooded with bad feedback and there is little they can do about it other than say its a work in progress, or worse, they will go out of their way to make the old and new systems look better for the time being instead of focusing on the final deployment.
I thought that was one of the reasons behind this whole 6 week release cycle, so they didn't feel pressured to release things before they were ready... but instead they are using the opposite excuse saying it allows them to release unfinished things so they can fix them later :(
They really should just delay any additional graphics upgrades until all of it is done, so as to reduce the number of bugs and glitches they have to chase down or answer for because part of the new system isn't playing nice with part of the old system and they absolutely insist on running both at once.
What would be even better is a timetable for which they plan to actually finish what they are starting with this. When are they planning on fixing this for T3s, NPCs, Stations... when are they going to actually finish updating all the textures in game so that PBR actually works well with them? I can't stand the standard answer of "well its too late to change it now so we will just patch it later..." :( |
Zelloxo
Aprilx Alien Abductions
0
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Posted - 2014.12.08 20:38:03 -
[107] - Quote
the lot of you
did you read this http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/pbr-and-making-eve-look-real/
cant you take them for their word and just see where it takes us do you really think they will just give up half way in and leave it
you act like they just took a hit off a crack pipe and came up with the most insane plot to take over the Atlantic ocean by resurfacing the moon.
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HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
282
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Posted - 2014.12.08 21:14:09 -
[108] - Quote
Zelloxo wrote:the lot of you did you read this http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/pbr-and-making-eve-look-real/ cant you take them for their word and just see where it takes us do you really think they will just give up half way in and leave it you act like they just took a hit off a crack pipe and came up with the most insane plot to take over the Atlantic ocean by resurfacing the moon. Given we're discussing the mega that they're bragging about, yes we read it. The takeaway being don't fly Gallente or half the pirates for six weeks; everything else is fine or better for it. |
Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2014.12.09 09:11:43 -
[109] - Quote
Zelloxo wrote:the lot of you did you read this http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/pbr-and-making-eve-look-real/ cant you take them for their word and just see where it takes us do you really think they will just give up half way in and leave it you act like they just took a hit off a crack pipe and came up with the most insane plot to take over the Atlantic ocean by resurfacing the moon. IF, you did read the 6 pages of this thread and the 18 of the other one... you did not understand a thing.
Because tities .
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Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
426
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Posted - 2014.12.09 11:48:12 -
[110] - Quote
Happy Patch Day!
Ok, hold tight, lets see how this goes - I took a look at SISI just before I logged and I took SS of everything for the sake of remembering it how it was...
I just fitted out my Paladin and I have almost 10/20 my Apoc BPO, so... don't make me have gaudy ships, I won't mention what my NM is going to be looking like for incursions, but I will try to cope.
Hopefully things smooth out, but if not I have PLEXed until April and I can always just take a break, set the queue (thank you for that) and wait until the next iteration of it all if it comes right down to it, but I would rather have pretty ships.
Here is hope for: 1. better detail and over all sharpness and color. 2. no super hot spots, odd "wavey/motion" effects from light hitting on weird angles on bits, no jagged specular lines giving the effect of moving, and no over-done metallic or colors, here is to full spectrum colors, both matt and gloss, and over all good looking ships in low/med/high shaders. 3. hopefully we get a client side skinning option, and custom ship colors and corporate/alliance logos, etc. 4. a brightness and contrast control. 5. effects on and off for all the various modules and such 6. external module items for HS non-weapon items. ... all in the next year, at least that would be nice.
Happy Patch Day everyone, here we go. |
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Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.12.09 11:57:17 -
[111] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote: 6. external module items for HS non-weapon items.
All active modules but damage control and shield/armor hardeners should have something in the hull:
Target painters, autotargeters, sensor boosters, dampeners, tracking enhancers/disruptors/, webs, points, cap transfers, remote shield boosters, remote armor reppers.
But this post isnt about this.
And this should be locked and discussion brought here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=390503&find=unread
Because tities .
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
14
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Posted - 2014.12.09 15:14:13 -
[112] - Quote
Zelloxo wrote:cant you take them for their word and just see where it takes us do you really think they will just give up half way in and leave it
WIS anyone? Remember how grand that was and how they had such plans for it?
Dust? Yeah, they've never stopped working on something they only half released that they were so proud of before now have they...
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Petra Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.12.09 16:18:50 -
[113] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:WIS anyone? Remember how grand that was and how they had such plans for it?
Dust? Yeah, they've never stopped working on something they only half released that they were so proud of before now have they...
hahaha youre so damn right... dust, game who is played by the stounding number of trhee thousand people as average on all its lifetime.
Because tities .
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4024
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Posted - 2014.12.10 08:29:17 -
[114] - Quote
There's a glaring difference between ships rendered with medium as opposed to high Shader Quality settings. Which sucks for any of us running older graphics cards or trying to optimize our settings for increased frame rate.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
19
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Posted - 2014.12.10 18:32:40 -
[115] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:There's a glaring difference between ships rendered with medium as opposed to high Shader Quality settings. Which sucks for any of us running older graphics cards or trying to optimize our settings for increased frame rate. Actually as my brother found out, Low Shader actually has better quality than Medium Shader... give it a whirl. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
19
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Posted - 2014.12.10 18:38:39 -
[116] - Quote
Well, at least the ships are no longer made entirely out of chromed plastic, and they actually have textures again. But on Low they don't have any shiney or reflectiveness. |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4025
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Posted - 2014.12.10 20:30:57 -
[117] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:Actually as my brother found out, Low Shader actually has better quality than Medium Shader... give it a whirl. I can't figure this one either, to be honest. I mean, the quality is definitely not there on the Low setting - but the glaring shine is not present and ships like the Erebus don't look like a single block of aluminum like they do under Medium.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
22
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Posted - 2014.12.10 23:47:18 -
[118] - Quote
I think its mostly the poor Gallente ships that were given the solid chrome look... going to try to get my bro to do some comparison shots with were there should be textures around the window areas (the dark sections with the lights), which are somehow only done through the dirt-map, and not texture. Further, this problem does not exist on any other racial ship, just Gallente, therein furthering the all mirrored aluminum look. Check it out on the mega and thorax for quick examples. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
621
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Posted - 2014.12.11 01:07:20 -
[119] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:Actually as my brother found out, Low Shader actually has better quality than Medium Shader... give it a whirl. I can't figure this one either, to be honest. I mean, the quality is definitely not there on the Low setting - but the glaring shine is not present and ships like the Erebus don't look like a single block of aluminum like they do under Medium.
The reason this is the case is that high and medium each use the PBR lighting model, but medium reduces the shading operations by 50% by removing the dirt maps.
Low turns off PBR and uses a much simpler lighting model, but because even low-end GPUs can handle dirt maps with the simpler lighting model, Low uses them. Because Low uses dirt maps and doesn't support reflection, colors are more saturated and there's a feeling of more detail, but on Low you don't get the feeling of materials being differentiated in the same way.
If you have to use Medium shader settings to get decent performance, you might want to try both Low and Medium to see which you prefer. Or, you may be able to get away with High if you change other settings.
Hope that helps a little bit.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
71
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: If you have to use Medium shader settings to get decent performance, you might want to try both Low and Medium to see which you prefer. Or, you may be able to get away with High if you change other settings.
Hope that helps a little bit.
I'm noticing a theme here....the only huge complaints about "medium" looking terribad seems to be based on just the Gallente hulls....
Maybe do to the fact that the "dirt map" all Gallente ships includes all the color minus the base green and the chrome layer. If you compare this to every other faction, the difference between Medium and High is nearly indistinguishable. It seems that it is just the gallente hulls that have this issue. Have you even considered this?
Instead of pulling out your soap box and telling all the dissidents to bugger off with their opinions (essentially that is your tone), why don't you take some time to see what the problem we are actually seeing is...
Gallente hulls need to be brought up to be comparable to the other factions. Every other faction essentially only loses the shiney reflection whilst stepping the graphics down from High to Medium to Low. Except for Gallente. Please don't make me take a pic of every ship in all three settings to show you, when you could do it yourself, by just simply looking at the ships.
-edit- Abaddon is a great example of the difference. Compare the Abaddon in all three shader settings...note the lack of change of actual color (just some dirt and details are added). Now do the same with the Megathron, the color changes between each one. |
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