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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:15:41 -
[1] - Quote
Since we are about to have a new type of space introduced to New Eden, and THERA is poised to be the largest and most important system in that new type of space, who is going to be moving there on a permanent or part time basis?
Perhaps more importantly, who is going to try and control it, if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
805
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:20:44 -
[2] - Quote
I had thought about it, but nah. I expect that system to be a total nightmare to navigate for at least the first couple of months. Granted, it will be extremely...vibrant, but I am actually somewhat concerned that it won't get the chance to blossom into it's full potential. See, a trade hub isn't a trade hub, unless there's stuff there actually worth buying and using. I pity the first few thousand ships that try to get anything in or out.
Just imagine Jita...with bubbles. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6666
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:21:31 -
[3] - Quote
i will certainly poke my head in and have it blown off.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Ama Scelesta
100
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:24:11 -
[4] - Quote
I will get a jump clone in there, but as said until there is a working market with decent amount of equipment there, there is little point in trying to make it your base of operations. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
6
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:39:51 -
[5] - Quote
Thera could truly become the Mos Eisley of our little universe.
I may not even miss the muppets in Jita Local. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7155
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:41:05 -
[6] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
Thera could truly become the Mos Eisley of our little universe.
I may not even miss the muppets in Jita Local.
Muppets always find a way.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:45:12 -
[7] - Quote
For those that aren't up to speed on what is known (and unknown at this point) about Thera, you can find it here: THERA
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1276
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:46:02 -
[8] - Quote
I'll definitely check it out but I see no reason to "live" there as it will be a complete zoo and I don't have alts anymore (lol).
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 17:47:31 -
[9] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:I'll definitely check it out but I see no reason to "live" there as it will be a complete zoo and I don't have alts anymore (lol). There are a lot of folks flying around who would feel right at home calling a zoo "home".
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
250
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:48:03 -
[10] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1276
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:50:30 -
[11] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: There are a lot of folks flying around who would feel right at home calling a zoo "home". This is not to say that I don't enjoy a zoo, just that my point was that I don't have any high-sec money-making alts anymore and I highly doubt that I'd be able to make any steady ISK in that system. One account and limits on RL cash kind of dictate my play. Although Thera will certainly be very nice for regular visits...
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:50:52 -
[12] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons:
1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.
2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5655
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:56:45 -
[13] - Quote
It will be an experiment in what it would be like to not have gates.
Meaning no bubble camps galore.
I'm not planning on using it though, as epic as the idea seems, but mainly because my time to play is considerably lacking these days.
(thanks CCP for the long skill que)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:58:36 -
[14] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. While it does have those things going for it, I don't see it developing into much more than some glorified NPC null space. Sure, some people will live there, but overall, I can't see even a moderate number of people wanting to actually base out of it. |
Kharamete
Royal Assent
104
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:59:21 -
[15] - Quote
I'll get a jump-clone in there and stay a while, but I don't think it will become the 'new jita' of lawless space. For that to work, you need to be able to ship things in bulk. From what I understand capitals won't be allowed in, and therefore there won't be any jumpfreighters bringing in goods. Or Freighters.
You'd perhaps be limited to Orcas, and let's be honest GÇô considering how risk averse people are, nobody is going to jump into Thera with an Orca without a big escort. And most people don't bother about escorts. So, no Lawless Jita in wormhole space.
That said, it could become an interesting system in its own
CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:02:05 -
[16] - Quote
Interesting idea, but it would be like connecting Amamake to everywhere... and putting new lights and gizmos all over... as a trade hub... meh, seriously doubt that. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:03:11 -
[17] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ka'Narlist wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?
Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it. How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone? A couple of reasons: 1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out. 2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden. While it does have those things going for it, I don't see it developing into much more than some glorified NPC null space. Sure, some people will live there, but overall, I can't see even a moderate number of people wanting to actually base out of it. Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:14:05 -
[18] - Quote
The alliance with the ability to move the most amount of players and bubble the hell out of it during tidi will control it.
TLDR: The 2 alliances running null sec atm. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:16:16 -
[19] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
It would be entirely too easy for an alliance to get their assets camped into such a place. There's a reason that NPC null is either used only for deployments, or as a last resort when all sov is lost. Granted, the recent removal of hobojamming makes this only slightly more difficult, it's still far from impossible. Anyone with enemies could very quickly find themselves hellcamped into that station. It makes far more sense to just use your own sov space, and take full advantage of wormholes within your regions of control. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:27:37 -
[20] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
It would be entirely too easy for an alliance to get their assets camped into such a place. There's a reason that NPC null is either used only for deployments, or as a last resort when all sov is lost. Granted, the recent removal of hobojamming makes this only slightly more difficult, it's still far from impossible. Anyone with enemies could very quickly find themselves hellcamped into that station. It makes far more sense to just use your own sov space, and take full advantage of wormholes within your regions of control. Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play.
We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT.
We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult.
If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well.
We really won't know a lot until we get facts on:
Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
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Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
318
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:31:05 -
[21] - Quote
Kharamete wrote:You'd perhaps be limited to Orcas, and let's be honest GÇô considering how risk averse people are, nobody is going to jump into Thera with an Orca without a big escort. And most people don't bother about escorts. So, no Lawless Jita in wormhole space.
People aren't as risk averse as is often said. Most of the time, people don't take risks simply because the reward isn't worth it. If this system is as convenient to get to from everywhere as is suspected, then suddenly bothering with an escort to get an Orca full of goods docked makes sense.
Essentially, the location means demand for goods will be sky high. Supply will be the bottleneck, which means very high margins. Those margins in turn will be determined by the risk involved in creating supply.
Increase Risk -> Increase Margins -> Increase Reward
If this is implemented wisely, CCP may have discovered a self-sustaining mechanism for balancing Risk/Reward. |
Marsha Mallow
1689
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:31:36 -
[22] - Quote
The most sensible items to trade initially might work out to be small volume, high value items. If you consider the types of players who have access to faction/officer drops and WH goodies, Thera doesn't really present all that much of an obstacle for people used to navigating tricky space. With enough ISK, you could force that type of market into being.
People have been mentioning the old freighter convoys with nostalgia for a while, but it simply wasn't viable with pre-Phoebe capital ranges/proliferation. But I suspect long term, people will try the convoy routes again. Also, consider boosters - which are a pain to buy AND sell (and were slated for a massive overhaul a while back, which was put on the back burner for a bit). It's possible booster production will centre around Thera. All it takes is a handful of traders to start a venture there with moderate investment, and it'll have ripple effects on the tertiary hubs. Officer mods in particular aren't in massive supply (although would require a fair chunk to corner).
It's an interesting experiment, really looking forward to it. In a way it tests the concept of spacetravel without gates as well as local removal. And it pokes at the players to see just how much risk they are prepared to take - I'll be really curious to see how many new players try get to Thera, and how long it takes them to try. If there are NPC stations I suspect there will be a mad rush to sneak people in, to open offices and deathclone alts across. It might be worth allowing unlimited office opening initially just to get people in there poking about.
Also, and I hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before someone creates a WH/sig mapping app for the entire game that is publically available. ATM they are used by closed groups for internal affairs, but I can see some enterprising soul creating a subscription based version which is rapidly made free.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:40:47 -
[23] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:The most sensible items to trade initially might work out to be small volume, high value items. If you consider the types of players who have access to faction/officer drops and WH goodies, Thera doesn't really present all that much of an obstacle for people used to navigating tricky space. With enough ISK, you could force that type of market into being.
People have been mentioning the old freighter convoys with nostalgia for a while, but it simply wasn't viable with pre-Phoebe capital ranges/proliferation. But I suspect long term, people will try the convoy routes again. Also, consider boosters - which are a pain to buy AND sell (and were slated for a massive overhaul a while back, which was put on the back burner for a bit). It's possible booster production will centre around Thera. All it takes is a handful of traders to start a venture there with moderate investment, and it'll have ripple effects on the tertiary hubs. Officer mods in particular aren't in massive supply (although would require a fair chunk to corner).
It's an interesting experiment, really looking forward to it. In a way it tests the concept of spacetravel without gates as well as local removal. And it pokes at the players to see just how much risk they are prepared to take - I'll be really curious to see how many new players try get to Thera, and how long it takes them to try. If there are NPC stations I suspect there will be a mad rush to sneak people in, to open offices and deathclone alts across. It might be worth allowing unlimited office opening initially just to get people in there poking about.
Also, and I hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before someone creates a WH/sig mapping app for the entire game that is publically available. ATM they are used by closed groups for internal affairs, but I can see some enterprising soul creating a subscription based version which is rapidly made free.
Like the one in this stickied post i the WH section.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=320030&find=unread |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:44:45 -
[24] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play.
We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT.
We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult.
If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well.
We really won't know a lot until we get facts on:
Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
Absolutely. I think that all of these question marks are a big reason that you won't see many (if any) organized groups making plans for it just yet. I would assume that more details will be divulged as we get closer to the release. If that ends up not being the case though, the only "mad rush" into that system that I expect to see, is a bunch of CovOps and cloaky/nullified T3s poking around in there for the first week or two. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5967
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:45:07 -
[25] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:The most sensible items to trade initially might work out to be small volume, high value items. If you consider the types of players who have access to faction/officer drops and WH goodies, Thera doesn't really present all that much of an obstacle for people used to navigating tricky space. With enough ISK, you could force that type of market into being.
People have been mentioning the old freighter convoys with nostalgia for a while, but it simply wasn't viable with pre-Phoebe capital ranges/proliferation. But I suspect long term, people will try the convoy routes again. Also, consider boosters - which are a pain to buy AND sell (and were slated for a massive overhaul a while back, which was put on the back burner for a bit). It's possible booster production will centre around Thera. All it takes is a handful of traders to start a venture there with moderate investment, and it'll have ripple effects on the tertiary hubs. Officer mods in particular aren't in massive supply (although would require a fair chunk to corner).
It's an interesting experiment, really looking forward to it. In a way it tests the concept of spacetravel without gates as well as local removal. And it pokes at the players to see just how much risk they are prepared to take - I'll be really curious to see how many new players try get to Thera, and how long it takes them to try. If there are NPC stations I suspect there will be a mad rush to sneak people in, to open offices and deathclone alts across. It might be worth allowing unlimited office opening initially just to get people in there poking about.
Also, and I hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before someone creates a WH/sig mapping app for the entire game that is publically available. ATM they are used by closed groups for internal affairs, but I can see some enterprising soul creating a subscription based version which is rapidly made free. Like the one in this stickied post i the WH section. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=320030&find=unread
A lot of what happens in the wormhole section of the forums goes unnoticed by the general population. It is quite possible that will change soon.
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Marsha Mallow
1691
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:45:22 -
[26] - Quote
Or like Siggy, or any other player made app. All of which are being developed internally (and probably better by well-resourced blocs) but my point is... actually, I'm not going to bother explaining it. Work it out.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5969
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:47:49 -
[27] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play.
We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT.
We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult.
If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well.
We really won't know a lot until we get facts on:
Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
Absolutely. I think that all of these question marks are a big reason that you won't see many (if any) organized groups making plans for it just yet. I would assume that more details will be divulged as we get closer to the release. If that ends up not being the case though, the only "mad rush" into that system that I expect to see, is a bunch of CovOps and cloaky/nullified T3s poking around in there for the first week or two. Probably all buying up offices and making bookmarks.
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
806
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:50:19 -
[28] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Probably all buying up offices and making bookmarks. Precisely. If the size of the system is anything like what I am imagining, a scanner nerd who knows how to short warp could easily spend a few days amusing him/herself just making tacticals, safes, and a few navigation routes through it. |
Marsha Mallow
1692
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 18:56:44 -
[29] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Probably all buying up offices and making bookmarks. To be fair, I think it's a good thing. People can baw all they like about blobbing, but organised groups will pre-map all of the logistical headache out then present it all nicely wrapped up for the rest of us in the form of guides/gossip/kms. It's fun to be a part of it, but it's also nice to wait for someone else to smooth out the edges.
Also, CCP could really force the issue. Hehe. Make all the stations CONCORD/Interbus or something, so people have to redeem their LP there. PLEASE DO IT! MY CAT IS CALLED PHOEBE TOO!
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
246
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:15:25 -
[30] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Kharamete wrote:You'd perhaps be limited to Orcas, and let's be honest GÇô considering how risk averse people are, nobody is going to jump into Thera with an Orca without a big escort. And most people don't bother about escorts. So, no Lawless Jita in wormhole space.
People aren't as risk averse as is often said. Most of the time, people don't take risks simply because the reward isn't worth it.
QFT.
I have often been called, diplomatically, risk averse. Undiplomatically much worse :)
The problem is that if you choose to play this game for its economy, then you have to play FOR ITS ECONOMY. This means that you need to make smart economic decisions.
Part of that decision is that increase risk means increased reward and since part of that increased risk is to be the plaything of actual people it had damn well better be SIGNIFICANTLY increased reward! I am not going to let some guy blow me up and giggle with glee at my expense so that I can make a measly 20% more per unit of time.
The reason I tend to be risk averse is that not only is there NOT increased reward for increased risk, many times there is a decrease in reward due to losses, losing time to running away/being camped etc etc etc. To say I should do that for 'content' reasons is silly...I am roleplaying a tough-economic minded toon and that toon would NOT do such a thing. To ask her to is basically asking this toon to not be played.
I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
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