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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
0wl
Pocket Pirates
62
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:35:00 -
[1891] - Quote
I wonder if all of this will be a precursor to high sec ISK generation taking a hit too ... Even better. |
Peter Johannsen
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
4
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:35:00 -
[1892] - Quote
Now just remove local and my life is complete :) |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
92
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:35:00 -
[1893] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Gonna be a bumpy ride.
I will be collecting relevant comments in this small bag over here, tears in the tanker, over there.
m
Oh and if you are quitting may I be the first to ask for at least some of your stuff
tia
Mike, from where you are in nullsec, how many jumps is it for you to get to lowsec in your capital currently? And how many will it be and how long will it take in the future? And based on your experience with the movement of capitals for non-PVP purposes, do you think this will have a desired effect on player enjoyment of the more boring aspects of day-to-day logistics? Finally, have we slaughtered the symbiosis between nullsec/hisec on the altar of force projection?
Since you are collecting relevant comments and tears, I'm hoping you can opine based on your experience in these areas. |
Drak d'Amral
Pandora Developments Boese Onkels
7
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:35:00 -
[1894] - Quote
i love you ccp, thx for this
resub all my accounts now!
best idea ever |
Speedkermit Damo
GeoCorp. Curatores Veritatis Alliance
318
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:36:00 -
[1895] - Quote
Blue donut of entitlement tears = best tears.
You brought this on yourselves. Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen. |
Nick DeLorean
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:36:00 -
[1896] - Quote
Are you guys planning to create rigs/modules/implants to increase the max jump range beyond 5LY and/or reduce the fatigue? Extending the length of the jump using those would still yeld the higher fatigue and would remain balanced IMO. That would fit the specialisation philosophy of the typical skill training you would normaly have. (IE someone would have to refit his capital ship for fleet movement, sacrificing tankiness, making them more vulnerable to attacks, and you could make the timer also affect reffiting ability, so someone cannot just jump, refit, wait timer, refit, jump, etc). I believe that this would be a very good risk/reward that would follow CCP philosophy.
Maybe some of said modules could also use ice, making the ice still a viable ressource to mine, and increasing costs of war would match the size of the corporation (jumping farther away is more expensive, so a bigger corp need/can affoard it, and smaller corps dont need to move that far, so cheaper for them)
Also, I believe that the jump drive calibration skill should be reworked to be a 5% increase, and be a x5 instead of x9, because right now, the base jump length is too small, and us, who does not have a skill that takes 2 months maxed, will be ruled out of any fleet movement. As a player with a 20 months account, I was aiming to get a carrier, but since this nerf, most fleets will requires us to have JDC maxed out to be part of anything, specially since the exponential timer, which will really affect people doing shorter jumps.
I do think that previous system was not restrictive enough, but this one is the opposite. You guys have to rebalance this and give us some way around it. I know CCP will be reworking this, but this has to be done quickly or even before release, because this will cause some serious havoc in null. |
Kalissis
46
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:37:00 -
[1897] - Quote
Goonads Vyvorant wrote:Kalissis wrote:Here is a recap so far for the discussion:
- Add fatigue to normal freighters when they get bridged (very reasonable, should be same as JF) - Fear of ice prices going down (man up, this is player driven economy!) - Does this include BLOPS? (yes, read dev post again, it's per pilot, only BLOPS range will be the same) - Fear of logistics beeing even more boring (sure but it's the main part of beeing a capable force, logistics! So figure them out) - Lots of joy! - Lot of tears (especially from the blue doughnut group)
EXTRA: HowToPowerProjectAfterNovember:
1. Get capital sitters (now called "jumpers") into a chain you like to travel (those can be on the same account as you just need to logout/login later) 2. Initial jump to first chain position 3. change your "jumper" char jump to next chain stop 4. repeat 3 till you are at the end of your chain 5. bring your main by flying there (Inti, Blops bride from start etc.) 6. Profit!!!
@CCP: please add fatigue to capital ships too in form of max pilot changes! (e.g. change pilot wait for the next one X minutes to get out) If you're going to fly the pilot, just have a cap on either side. Much simpler.
If you are going to fly it you need to avoid possible gate camps/traps etc, so you need to use intis (nearly uncatchable fit) or use BLOPS as your "main" chain (as those will have still current titan range, then use another one and you are probably there), you only need some BLOPS bridges to get across the galaxy including all your guys can take it (fatigue will be on blops bridger too). The aim is to "project power" as soon as possible here.
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Dread Nanana
Action Super Dupper Test Corp
30
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:37:00 -
[1898] - Quote
AssandTits wrote: Taking Fountain for example, there is ONE system in range of Hophib under the new mechanics .. good luck getting ANYTHING into that system without a forceful response.
Sov mechanics will be changing too. You are still thinking Dominion sov. That is going away.
Wormholes could become much more important lifelines to high sec than they currently are. Especially for some far flung regions.
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Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
17
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:38:00 -
[1899] - Quote
Galphii wrote:The big alliances will stash extra capitals around the map and set up their jump clones to those locations, which I'm sure is not lost on the dev team. Until this is changed, the bigger alliances will have a money-based advantage while smaller groups who cannot have so many backup capitals to stash are left wanting. Don't leave this issue hanging for too long. It's great to have alternate implant sets but the travel issue here is going to be a glaring problem.
The galaxy isn't huge if you can just JC everywhere. You want to make eve big again? Fix this soon.
So you mean that there will be lots and lots of supers stashed in POSes that the owners won't be able to jump to to defend?
Free supers for everyone, courtesy of Goons and PL! |
Zhul Chembull
Phantom Power Incorporated Rebel Alliance of New Eden
14
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:38:00 -
[1900] - Quote
Drak d'Amral wrote:i love you ccp, thx for this
resub all my accounts now!
best idea ever
Lol Ill do just the opposite. |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1664
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:38:00 -
[1901] - Quote
Over complex and not effective "solution" from CCP.
Lets for a momet forget the stupidity of a taitan jumping trough a gate that is 1/8th of its size...
This wil NOT change the focal type of combat in 0.0 IT will still be a Jutland battle scenario. No one will deploy their main forces unless they are sure to have overhelming advantage. They will wait and they will only jump in when they have their 300+ capitals ready.
The problem of FOrce CONCENTRATIOn (not force projection) is not touched. THe major groups will still be impossible to challenge. Because to challenge them you still need to brign ALL your capitals and they will just brign theirs.. the changes hurt BOTH sides.
A much simpler solution that would have a much BETTER effect would be to make each system (SYSTEM NOT SHIP OR PLAYER) have a maximum troughput of capitals mass per minute. That means that you cannot jump a TRILLION ships at once and achieve instant superiority.
Force projection is IRRELEVANT without force concentration. LEarn a bit of military theory before trying to balance this game please. A small mobile force can project itself faster, but still these are only used on special targets, beccause it is IRRELEVANT on a simple battleground if you arrive first with 20 man in humvees if the enemy is arriving 20 minutes later with 60 T80A MBTs.
If you had all ships with 600 ly range on their drives, but only 2-3 capitals per minute would be able to get into any system, that alone would have a MUCH more effective result on downscaling the fights in eve. And would create an Equal ground for medium and large alliances. Yes, equal ground, because no matter how many pilots you have, the limit is smaller than any group would have, therefore numeric superioritywould only press heavily on a fight after 30 or more minutes.
That limit of ships per minute in a system, incidentaly would also nerf MASSIVE power PROJECTION that you want to nerf so much. That without touching small movment of single capitals AT ALL. And More, it woudl nerf massive power projection MUCH better, because under the CCP new system the side in the defense (i.e closer to their staging) will deploy their fll force anyway as soon as they can get every single capital within 5 ly, and they will overhelm the battlefield COMPLETELY.
I cannot even try to write more because its amazing someone would think this is the way to sovle things. For starters power projection is a MINIMAL factor onthe scenario. I repeat, READ MILITARY THEORY, and no that is not SunTzu outdated concepts (they still work in small scale but not in strategic scale). A simple example that everyone Knows but understand backwards? Panzer corps in the initial blitzzkrieg. Their main capability was NOT the mobility!!!! Motorized infantry would be MORE mobile, but would not be able to concentrate so much power.
With no nerf to the capability of changign your battlefield presence from 1 ship to 700 within a single second, the war states will keep IDENTICAL "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kym Sorenson
Lone Wolf Union Yulai Federation
17
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:38:00 -
[1902] - Quote
CFCN3PL CAN I HAZ YOR STUFFZ?? plzzzz?!?! |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
265
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:39:00 -
[1903] - Quote
Capital pilots are going to have to disabuse themselves of the notion that to get around, they must use jump drives. Finally, the cobweb-covered warp drives of capital ships will get some use If you're complaining about taking so long to get to the other side of the galaxy, good - that's the whole point of the exercise.
Think local. X |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
283
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:40:00 -
[1904] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:So you guys think this will stop everyone from dropping a fleet on ya ? They wont need to after they control the choke points. Sub-cap fleets again is all it is going to be. The people in smaller alliances with less time will be melted away due to not being able to logistically support their operation. Someone said it will be easier to defend ? Give me a break, you guys will get smashed by sub-cap fleets still. Once they have the area you have no hope of ever getting it again. The big alliances will get bigger and can stop supplies from the enemy in jumping down supplies by controlling the choke points.
The smaller operations that mine, such as myself, logistically wont be able to provide our ore in Jita no longer as there is no way in hell I'm creating more cyno toons for this game. Just let the rest of my accounts go inactive and find something else to do. Seriously it sucks doing logistics as is. Someone at CCP just don't get it. I needed a vacation from this game anyhow.
I represent the small guy in eve, this is fail, believe me.
Yeah it's kinda ridiculous that to do logistics in deep null if you happen to be blocked by a regional gate that is over 5LY you can easily end up going from needing 3-4 cynos in your chain to 8-10. This is an absurd increase and maybe someone at CCP thinks this will drive up subscriptions as you now need 3 more accounts to cyno with but I think it is more likely people will just quit. |
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
20
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:40:00 -
[1905] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:the turnaround time was kind of fast to be in response to the null deal, but the sheer amount of gameplay that has been unlocked makes me think these changes were to satisfy it.
It was the other way around - these changes leaked, via the null blocks' members on the CSM. The "deal" just is an attempt for them to get around these changes, by having uncapturable npc pockets everywhere they can store caps in. |
Pickleback
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:40:00 -
[1906] - Quote
If you want us to build local, you'd better consider re-distributing moons....
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Zhul Chembull
Phantom Power Incorporated Rebel Alliance of New Eden
14
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:40:00 -
[1907] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Blue donut of entitlement tears = best tears.
You brought this on yourselves.
Sorry bud this will not effect them any. They will now control the choke points and no need to have to have their cap fleet in the outskirts of their area. You guys just don't get how big alliances work. They will work around it, however the smaller alliances will GO AWAY because not being able to logistically support their operations.
Those that think its going to correct large fleets are smoking some good crack.
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Sigras
Conglomo
895
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:41:00 -
[1908] - Quote
Edgarr Friendly wrote:Maybe I'm missing something but surely this just makes the bigger corps/alliances stronger?
You take over a corner of space, you only need to protect the borders because nobody has the range to jump in beyond you, and if they do they are stuck with such large timers that you can activate your defense fleet and destroy them before they can get away. which allows you to have minimal forces within the boundary where you can rent away or operate with impunity.
I'm still waiting to see how small corps alliances benefit You're goonswarm, and you hold space from Deklein to delve.
You're currently deploying a defensive fleet in XCBK-X. You go to bed the night after Phoebe has launched and wake up the next morning to several mails about your systems under attack. among them, K8X-6B in Vale of the silent, and PDE-U3 in delve.
Yesterday you could have just cynoed into K8X with your massive fleet, RR'ed the structures and then taken an hour or two to get to PDE in delve.
Today however you must choose which location to defend or split your fleet and try to defend both.
TL;DR This makes holding small areas of space much easier but larger swaths of space extremely difficult. |
AssandTits
University of Caille Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:41:00 -
[1909] - Quote
Dread Nanana wrote:AssandTits wrote: Taking Fountain for example, there is ONE system in range of Hophib under the new mechanics .. good luck getting ANYTHING into that system without a forceful response. Sov mechanics will be changing too. You are still thinking Dominion sov. That is going away. Wormholes could become much more important lifelines to high sec than they currently are. Especially for some far flung regions.
I think you will find any sov changes apart from "click this buttan every hour or we wtf your sov" after this steaming pile of **** will make a difference you are way off base.
Either best CCP troll or 07 Greyscale enjoy unemployment. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
911
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:41:00 -
[1910] - Quote
on jumpclones .. make a HQ clonebase .. where you are stored and get cloned from this facility .. then assign them an arbitrary number .. say a radius of 10 jumps you move any clone from your HQ clone..
thus limiting how far you can jump-clone and getting around the have jump-clone for capitals in every NPC station region..
i suppose rorquals could be a way of moving your main clone around Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please |
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Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:42:00 -
[1911] - Quote
NEW INFO!!! Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Soturno
PREDATORS.
8
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:42:00 -
[1912] - Quote
And about a System ARENA - Arena Stations with players fighting for iskes?!!? |
Zaand Schtvaal
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:42:00 -
[1913] - Quote
Relegated to the bottom of page 96 so I'm at least confident in that fact that I know that no one will ever read this, but I would just like to throw my abject horror into the fray after reading these changes. Seriously CCP, what the **** are you smoking?
Having said that, knowing that this ship has already sailed on this one and that this is a really **** idea to begin with (but less **** than what I just read) and as a cap pilot I already hate it myself, but how about, instead of cool down timers on caps, you have spool up timers instead. It could be haltable so that you could stop it at any time during the spool up and reset the timer to zero, or it could be something like the micro-jump drive where once you hit jump you're stuck vulnerable for however many minutes it takes with no way to stop it. The amount of time taken to spool up should be relative to the size of the ship: bigger ships take longer to jump once the button is pushed.
Either way, you should be unable to target anything -call it subspace Einstein-Bose Scotty the docking manager is hitting the bottle again and pissed on the warp core interference or whatever made up ****. No more remote reps, no more drones for whatever amount of time.This way it still limits how fast a cap fleet can move, but also makes it so that caps can't just instantly disengage the moment things go pear shaped. This would make a good subcap force to protect the extracting caps pretty much mandatory, it would certainly give new meaning to the term "committing caps", and would lead to a lot more dead ships, which to me at least is a good thing.
The problem right now is how fast caps can move, but the real underlying problem is how invincible they are once on field. Make them more vulnerable in battle and you retain their infinite usefulness as space busses, but give large power blocks something to seriously think about before committing.
Either way, this proposed system is so F***ing convoluted that it makes crimewatch look like easy to comprehend. Please do not just add complexity to fix a broken system. |
BlackMatrix
Irrational Tendencies SCUM.
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:42:00 -
[1914] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:So you guys think this will stop everyone from dropping a fleet on ya ? They wont need to after they control the choke points. Sub-cap fleets again is all it is going to be. The people in smaller alliances with less time will be melted away due to not being able to logistically support their operation. Someone said it will be easier to defend ? Give me a break, you guys will get smashed by sub-cap fleets still. Once they have the area you have no hope of ever getting it again. The big alliances will get bigger and can stop supplies from the enemy in jumping down supplies by controlling the choke points.
The smaller operations that mine, such as myself, logistically wont be able to provide our ore in Jita no longer as there is no way in hell I'm creating more cyno toons for this game. Just let the rest of my accounts go inactive and find something else to do. Seriously it sucks doing logistics as is. Someone at CCP just don't get it. I needed a vacation from this game anyhow.
I represent the small guy in eve, this is fail, believe me. Yeah it's kinda ridiculous that to do logistics in deep null if you happen to be blocked by a regional gate that is over 5LY you can easily end up going from needing 3-4 cynos in your chain to 8-10. This is an absurd increase and maybe someone at CCP thinks this will drive up subscriptions as you now need 3 more accounts to cyno with but I think it is more likely people will just quit.
You really didnt read the changes. 3 more cynos is not actually even the issue. It would be the amount of time to perform the 3 additional jumped with the cool down. You'll just have to jump the gate I guess which is the whole purpose. |
Sigras
Conglomo
895
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:43:00 -
[1915] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Speedkermit Damo wrote:Blue donut of entitlement tears = best tears.
You brought this on yourselves. Sorry bud this will not effect them any. They will now control the choke points and no need to have to have their cap fleet in the outskirts of their area. You guys just don't get how big alliances work. They will work around it, however the smaller alliances will GO AWAY because not being able to logistically support their operations. Those that think its going to correct large fleets are smoking some good crack. I bet you a billion ISK that if these changes go through the way they are stated now that you are wrong.
Do you really think Goonswarm is going to be able to continue to hold delve after this change? |
Jethro Winchester
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
9
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:43:00 -
[1916] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Capital pilots are going to have to disabuse themselves of the notion that to get around, they must use jump drives. Finally, the cobweb-covered warp drives of capital ships will get some use If you're complaining about taking so long to get to the other side of the galaxy, good - that's the whole point of the exercise. Think local.
Oh boy, fly for four hours to find a fight, get blueballed, fly four hours home, dock up, log. Welcome to the new EVE.
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AssandTits
University of Caille Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:43:00 -
[1917] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Edgarr Friendly wrote:Maybe I'm missing something but surely this just makes the bigger corps/alliances stronger?
You take over a corner of space, you only need to protect the borders because nobody has the range to jump in beyond you, and if they do they are stuck with such large timers that you can activate your defense fleet and destroy them before they can get away. which allows you to have minimal forces within the boundary where you can rent away or operate with impunity.
I'm still waiting to see how small corps alliances benefit You're goonswarm, and you hold space from Deklein to delve. You're currently deploying a defensive fleet in XCBK-X. You go to bed the night after Phoebe has launched and wake up the next morning to several mails about your systems under attack. among them, K8X-6B in Vale of the silent, and PDE-U3 in delve. Yesterday you could have just cynoed into K8X with your massive fleet, RR'ed the structures and then taken an hour or two to get to PDE in delve. Today however you must log in your second or third PVP alt to defend both.TL;DR I am a scrub publord who has no ******* clue as to what I am commenting on derppppaderpderp GRR Goons.
Adjusted that for you, you poor single account poor. |
Kelaian Stareine
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
24
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:43:00 -
[1918] - Quote
All and all I am seeming to like these changes though they may affect my cloaky camping play style (Which is only necessary due to broken sov mechanics in the first place). I won't need to harass renters if these mechanics help to do away with them.
I'll miss med cloning and suicide podding.
I do think the blops changes are a little harsh (Full disclosure of me being a cloaky hotdropper already provided). My main issue with them is that it will make it hard to do repeated and regular drops. I think its more than fair that a blops should struggle to do quick drops when it has a mid, but adding in the fatigue timer makes it much harder to do repeated blops drops in a single day. A blops is an expensive ship, and if there are targets I want to use it. Power projection issues don't really apply to blops considering they are usually used in small gang pvp and not major fleet ops/logistics.
In summary please do these changes, but please consider those of us who want to use our blops to shoot ships instead of making a lot of carrier jumps to get to a 10% tidi sov grind fest :) |
Thead Enco
Radio New Vegas
224
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:44:00 -
[1919] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:o7 eve and thanks for all the fish, it's been fun.
#Godspeed o7
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
Demonfist
Inner Ring Enterprises
14
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:44:00 -
[1920] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Changes are coming to how long distance travel works in EVE Online. If use jump drives, then this is an important dev blog for you. Find all the details from CCP Greyscale and the Nullsec working group here. Please look into also expanding jump bridge use to all lowsec systems with these changes. Thank you. Awesome self-quote in 3... 2... 1... Ok, GO!
"The only launchers i'm interested in having as part of +PV+P are the ones that fire ze missilez!" -- Demonfist |
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