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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
103
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:20:00 -
[301] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:baltec1 wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:baltec1 wrote:Caerbanog Walace wrote: Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.
Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game. We want to lose :) Yea now You want to lose it because they will nerf Your ability to hold it. So You want more in less systems to sustain big and abnormal alliance/coalition that wasn't designed to be in this game. You will lose it anyway - there is no point to reiburse You with more resources. You still want to have blob available but this need to change - massive fleets are what is killing eve - tidi and no opponents that can match numbers. Only way anything will change is to slice the coalitions to pieces. You cannot host any alliance of any size if the system you own can support at most 10 people at a time. So that is why most of Your sov is empty ? This is why it is rented out?
Exactly...they rent out the good stuff, and then complain there isn't enough "density" - read farming ability in whats left - so they want to buff that. Now they get the best of both worlds, enough prime real estate to rent AND to support their own farming. Basically a massive buff to nullsec. Of course, as per usual, they will just rent out even more stuff and shaft their own pilots again. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13395
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:23:00 -
[302] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
So that is why most of Your sov is empty ? This is why it is rented out?
Most of our space is more or less useless as you will earn a good deal more isk blitzing level 4s in high sec. Renting out our space is only a thing because we had to replace the moon goo income when they nerfed tech. What we need is bottom up income you can earn in null and that allows for an alliance to actually be able to live in the space it owns and supports all of its members. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2131
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:32:00 -
[303] - Quote
This idea is the pinnacle of risk aversion. It is a means to a simple end: a nigh impenetrable city on a hill from which to launch sorties against smaller entities in order to farm easy kills.
Population Density With this change you could fit the entire CFC + Renters in deklein, probably without using every constellation. And why not? It is far easier to protect your nullbears and renters when there are 200+ dudes per pve system rather than 5-10 dudes per pve system. Perfect safety and easy defense.
NPC Stations An NPC station 20 gate jumps form any arbitrary point on the map. Has some fledgling alliance in some obscure corner of the galaxy dared use capitals? Stage 200+ dreads in an npc station 1 capital jump out. "Content" for the whole alliance. Best of all, there's no need for B0tlord or the donut, just avoid the other guy's city-constellation and everything else is a farm.
The CFC will have their city in deklein, PL in the drone regions, N3 somewhere in the east. The unused space will empty out and some fledgling alliances may even stake a claim. But the moment they have anything scarcely worthwhile, someone will show up on the NPC doorstep looking for "content," while their own bears are safe as houses. Everyone gets their own personal providence to farm. How quaint. This isn't "conflict," this is easy mode farm for the blob.
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Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
17
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:33:00 -
[304] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:
So that is why most of Your sov is empty ? This is why it is rented out?
Most of our space is more or less useless as you will earn a good deal more isk blitzing level 4s in high sec. Renting out our space is only a thing because we had to replace the moon goo income when they nerfed tech. What we need is bottom up income you can earn in null and that allows for an alliance to actually be able to live in the space it owns and supports all of its members. Want to kill of the rental empires? The get behind occupancy sov as that makes it impossible to hold vast areas of space to rent out.
Sorry for not feeling Your pain - my alliance can't afford double srp. Are You afraid goonswarm will break when there is no income to buy players? When they will need to buy their own ships? When they will ask where are the resources?
Welcome to the real world where players play and don't get bought. They actually login to have something and risk something so others can have fun too.
All that renting, crazy srp, massive coalitions must be nerfed so ppl start playing the game like it is designed to be played. When you bypass rules of the game it kills it.
If goons need to break for it to happen then well **** happens. Noone guarantee that You will always be able to buy players. they should wan't to play for fun not for someone that just buys them and commands them. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13395
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:34:00 -
[305] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:Regatto wrote:They felt that fire of change burning under butts and this looks like their attempt to turn it to their advantage . Is it just me or is it fishy this "proposal" is done pretty sudden (Some sovgroups only given 24h to respond) and straight after the CSM summit where CCP showed their plans for nullchanges? Also having all players of an alliance in a few systems next to each other sounds a lot like 100% safety and death of smallscale roaming. Unless ofc your smallscaleroam consists of more ships than the owner has members...
Occupancy sov has been getting pushed for months now by these same blocks, this letter is simply the latest call. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Innet Assumption
Real Enemy SOLAR FLEET
1
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:36:00 -
[306] - Quote
New npc space - ok.
Quote:Players should live in and utilize their space, and player infrastructure and activity should be reflected in an occupancy index. We believe this will significantly shrink the footprints of the current absentee empires, free up large sections of sov 0.0 for smaller entities, and remove the current need for vast coalitions.
Without a detailed plan is hard to say like or dislike. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13395
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:38:00 -
[307] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:baltec1 wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:
So that is why most of Your sov is empty ? This is why it is rented out?
Most of our space is more or less useless as you will earn a good deal more isk blitzing level 4s in high sec. Renting out our space is only a thing because we had to replace the moon goo income when they nerfed tech. What we need is bottom up income you can earn in null and that allows for an alliance to actually be able to live in the space it owns and supports all of its members. Want to kill of the rental empires? The get behind occupancy sov as that makes it impossible to hold vast areas of space to rent out. Sorry for not feeling Your pain - my alliance can't afford double srp. Are You afraid goonswarm will break when there is no income to buy players? When they will need to buy their own ships? When they will ask where are the resources? Welcome to the real world where players play and don't get bought. They actually login to have something and risk something so others can have fun too. All that renting, crazy srp, massive coalitions must be nerfed so ppl start playing the game like it is designed to be played. When you bypass rules of the game it kills it. If goons need to break for it to happen then well **** happens. Noone guarantee that You will always be able to buy players. they should wan't to play for fun not for someone that just buys them and commands them.
Yea, your speaking to someone who doesn't get all of that lovely isk when they die in a fleet. If you want null to be full of targets then this is how to fix it.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
18
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:43:00 -
[308] - Quote
@baltec1
No. To fix it You need to slice the coalitions/aliances - not make them more powerfull in 1 place. Small alliances will not attack hundreds that are bunkered in one place.
They need to nerf null income so no srp. No ability to create crazy number of ppl in one alliance/coalition.
Over 300 corps in goonswarm alone - this is normal for You? Do You know how much content there would be if 300 corps would fight each other? |
Nostromo Fidanza
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:44:00 -
[309] - Quote
NPC stations in every null sec region? Sounds good. Makes it even easier for me to rake in billions in null sec. |
Dave Stark
7004
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:45:00 -
[310] - Quote
I'll be honest, i don't see how occupancy sov really changes anything with respect to the size of things.
throw lots of warm bodies at an area of sov = impossible to take it. unless you the amount an index can change per time period.... in which case, just stack enough people to cap it daily and you end up with a boring stalemate (which is the whole issue at the moment) or an inevitable slide of the index in one direction that you can't challenge.
i'll be honest; i don't get it. some one explain it to me. |
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Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
19
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:48:00 -
[311] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i'll be honest; i don't get it. some one explain it to me.
It is about big alliances keeping their numbers. |
Myravingian
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.09.29 14:49:00 -
[312] - Quote
I still rekon CCP will manage to **** up this perfectly brilliant plan |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2546
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:49:00 -
[313] - Quote
Here's an area with an NPC area smack dab in the middle of it. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind/7D-0SQ#kills24
Where's the kills and interaction? Still looks dead. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2131
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:54:00 -
[314] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:I'll be honest, i don't see how occupancy sov really changes anything with respect to the size of things.
throw lots of warm bodies at an area of sov = impossible to take it. unless you the amount an index can change per time period.... in which case, just stack enough people to cap it daily and you end up with a boring stalemate (which is the whole issue at the moment) or an inevitable slide of the index in one direction that you can't challenge.
i'll be honest; i don't get it. some one explain it to me. It is the latest in a long line of half baked ideas from the established powers that be; a desperate attempt from said powers to ~create content~ while avoiding the risk of fighting someone that might actually defeat them.
Manny's idea (for example) was to create choke points for freighters farmed by the established power houses. This one is a little more subtle, but the end result is the same: low risk "content" farm. |
Sydious
The Drunken Empire Fatal Ascension
21
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Posted - 2014.09.29 15:06:00 -
[315] - Quote
This is exactly what null sec needs. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
842
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:07:00 -
[316] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:This idea is the pinnacle of risk aversion. It is a means to a simple end: a nigh impenetrable city on a hill from which to launch sorties against smaller entities in order to farm easy kills.
...
The CFC will have their city in deklein, PL in the drone regions, N3 somewhere in the east. The unused space will empty out and some fledgling alliances may even stake a claim. But the moment they have anything scarcely worthwhile, someone will show up on the NPC doorstep looking for "content," while their own bears are safe as houses. Everyone gets their own personal providence to farm. How quaint. This isn't "conflict," this is easy mode farm for the blob.
so it is both bad for nullsec if we own all of it, but it is also bad for nullsec if we only own part of it and let other people own part of it
have you really thought this brilliant argument all the way through
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:08:00 -
[317] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:baltec1 wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:
So that is why most of Your sov is empty ? This is why it is rented out?
Most of our space is more or less useless as you will earn a good deal more isk blitzing level 4s in high sec. Renting out our space is only a thing because we had to replace the moon goo income when they nerfed tech. What we need is bottom up income you can earn in null and that allows for an alliance to actually be able to live in the space it owns and supports all of its members. Want to kill of the rental empires? The get behind occupancy sov as that makes it impossible to hold vast areas of space to rent out. Sorry for not feeling Your pain - my alliance can't afford double srp. Are You afraid goonswarm will break when there is no income to buy players? When they will need to buy their own ships? When they will ask where are the resources? Welcome to the real world where players play and don't get bought. They actually login to have something and risk something so others can have fun too. All that renting, crazy srp, massive coalitions must be nerfed so ppl start playing the game like it is designed to be played. When you bypass rules of the game it kills it. If goons need to break for it to happen then well **** happens. Noone guarantee that You will always be able to buy players. they should want to play for fun not for someone that just buys them and commands them.
You ask for these things but provide no solutions. What you fail to understand is these three items suggested are the solution. You just don't like the messenger. Maybe Grath or PGL should have posted it, the reaction by the -1's and naysayers would have been different. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
842
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:09:00 -
[318] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:@baltec1
No. To fix it You need to slice the coalitions/aliances - not make them more powerfull in 1 place. Small alliances will not attack hundreds that are bunkered in one place.
They need to nerf null income so no srp. No ability to create crazy number of ppl in one alliance/coalition.
Over 300 corps in goonswarm alone - this is normal for You? Do You know how much content there would be if 300 corps would fight each other? yeah i'm sure game mechanics are going to be extra super successful in blocking us from talking to the leaders of other groups out of game and agreeing to alliances
like seriously has any moa poster itt thought through what they're posting even a little bit |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
19
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:15:00 -
[319] - Quote
If You want to show me how You go to war with entity that has comparable numbers then be my guest. If not then I see no reason to keep such large aliances around that only atract ppl who want easy game and deny content to smaller ones.
Or is it too risky for nullsec carebears? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2131
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:19:00 -
[320] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote: so it is both bad for nullsec if we own all of it, but it is also bad for nullsec if we only own part of it and let other people own part of it
have you really thought this brilliant argument all the way through
No one likes to be farm chattel. Point in case. As long as supra entities exist in their current form, they will farm lesser entities. As long as lesser entities are farmed, their members will (sooner or later) join the supra entities. It does not matter whether these supra entities span a single constellation or 12 regions.
Any nullsec change that does not give significant and immediate incentive for PL to literally sh*t down the throats of Nulli or NC. supers is destined to be a dismal failure. Any change which does not motivate Goonswarm to stomp on the face of Razor or FA repeatedly and with great prejudice will result in the same stagnation which we now enjoy.
The fault, dear Retar, is not in our npc stations, but in ourselves. We alone cannot fix ourselves, but perhaps CCP can nudge us along the proper path. |
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:21:00 -
[321] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:I'll be honest, i don't see how occupancy sov really changes anything with respect to the size of things.
throw lots of warm bodies at an area of sov = impossible to take it. unless you cap the amount an index can change per time period.... in which case, just stack enough people to cap it daily and you end up with a boring stalemate (which is the whole issue at the moment) or an inevitable slide of the index in one direction that you can't challenge.
i'll be honest; i don't get it. some one explain it to me.
The index would be linked to activity in a system like mining, ratting, kills or some other industry metric. It could be grown over a period of time. This in turn would affect how easy it is for them to defend and how hard it would be for opponents to take. You could directly link it to structure EHP or timers for instance.
This method would mean a dead system, with no activity would be very easy to conquer and a used system, with plenty of activity across the spectrum would be difficult to take.
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Janeos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
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Posted - 2014.09.29 15:23:00 -
[322] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:@baltec1
No. To fix it You need to slice the coalitions/aliances - not make them more powerfull in 1 place. Small alliances will not attack hundreds that are bunkered in one place.
They need to nerf null income so no srp. No ability to create crazy number of ppl in one alliance/coalition.
Over 300 corps in goonswarm alone - this is normal for You? Do You know how much content there would be if 300 corps would fight each other? like 85%-90% of our corps are one-player altcorps so they can have towers without tower role issues, they're not actual corporations so yes that is entirely normal The sad, sad part is that these MOA tools are arguing against changes that would benefit them long term.
Yes, you might get bounced from your hovels in Pure Blind if the GoonMass concentrates further into Deklein and surrounds. But all of our far-flung tenement regions would also open up, because we would no longer be able to keep them. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13395
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:25:00 -
[323] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:@baltec1
No. To fix it You need to slice the coalitions/aliances - not make them more powerfull in 1 place. Small alliances will not attack hundreds that are bunkered in one place.
They need to nerf null income so no srp. No ability to create crazy number of ppl in one alliance/coalition.
Over 300 corps in goonswarm alone - this is normal for You? Do You know how much content there would be if 300 corps would fight each other?
Nerf null income?
Its already below high sec income, who in their right mind would want to live in null if it got any lower? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dave Stark
7004
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:25:00 -
[324] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Dave Stark wrote:I'll be honest, i don't see how occupancy sov really changes anything with respect to the size of things.
throw lots of warm bodies at an area of sov = impossible to take it. unless you cap the amount an index can change per time period.... in which case, just stack enough people to cap it daily and you end up with a boring stalemate (which is the whole issue at the moment) or an inevitable slide of the index in one direction that you can't challenge.
i'll be honest; i don't get it. some one explain it to me. The index would be linked to activity in a system like mining, ratting, kills or some other industry metric. It could be grown over a period of time. This in turn would affect how easy it is for them to defend and how hard it would be for opponents to take. You could directly link it to structure EHP or timers for instance. This method would mean a dead system, with no activity would be very easy to conquer and a used system, with plenty of activity across the spectrum would be difficult to take.
until you throw x+1 warm bodies at the system, and it becomes impossible to take, thus keeping us in the situation of having large coalitions except now you have to put them all under 1 alliance banner. instead of informal coalition banners. |
GuidoCom
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:27:00 -
[325] - Quote
change is good |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
20
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Posted - 2014.09.29 15:28:00 -
[326] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:If You want to show me how You go to war with entity that has comparable numbers then be my guest. If not then I see no reason to keep such large aliances around that only atract ppl who want easy game and deny content to smaller ones.
Or is it too risky for nullsec carebears? who cares what you want i want a unicorn can you even lay out a coherent explanation of what game changes you'd want to give you what you want? no? then why should we care what you want, you want ponies and rainbows and whatever but without any roadmap you're just uselessly whining
I don't need to make any changes - ccp needs to do it. Your proposal is not fixing anything - it is just attempt to keep Your power. Everyone see this and it will fail or not - depends if ccp is stupid enough to buy that crap.
It is the same as I would propose: my carrier should be 200 times stronger because goons throw 200 carriers at me. Do it ccp do it - this is a good idea...
This proposal is signed by ppl who don't think or are benefited by it. No small aliance is stupid enough to want this. |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
20
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:29:00 -
[327] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:@baltec1
No. To fix it You need to slice the coalitions/aliances - not make them more powerfull in 1 place. Small alliances will not attack hundreds that are bunkered in one place.
They need to nerf null income so no srp. No ability to create crazy number of ppl in one alliance/coalition.
Over 300 corps in goonswarm alone - this is normal for You? Do You know how much content there would be if 300 corps would fight each other? Nerf null income? Its already below high sec income, who in their right mind would want to live in null if it got any lower?
Ppl that wan't to fight not farm. It would exclude goons but noone would care :D |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
476
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:29:00 -
[328] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:If You want to show me how You go to war with entity that has comparable numbers then be my guest. If not then I see no reason to keep such large aliances around that only atract ppl who want easy game and deny content to smaller ones.
Or is it too risky for nullsec carebears? who cares what you want i want a unicorn can you even lay out a coherent explanation of what game changes you'd want to give you what you want? no? then why should we care what you want, you want ponies and rainbows and whatever but without any roadmap you're just uselessly whining I don't need to make any changes - ccp needs to do it. Your proposal is not fixing anything - it is just attempt to keep Your power. Everyone see this and it will fail or not - depends if ccp is stupid enough to buy that crap. It is the same as I would propose: my carrier should be 200 times stronger because goons throw 200 carriers at me. Do it ccp do it - this is a good idea... This proposal is signed by ppl who don't thik or are benefited by it. No small aliance is stupid enough to want this.
I support whatever gets us more posts from this guy.
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Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
20
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:31:00 -
[329] - Quote
Yep Im all for not reimbursing anyone for power projection nerfs by buffing income from systems. If they fold the better for everyone.
npc stations as power projection buff - should never happen. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13400
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:32:00 -
[330] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
Ppl that wan't to fight not farm. It would exclude goons but noone would care :D
So you want a nullsec in which it is impossible to live. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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