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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.09.24 21:10:41 -
[1] - Quote
So when logging into Sisi, I noticed some not-insignificant changes to the buttons on the station services tab for Guests, Agents, and Offices.
We then inquired about the need to change something that wasn't broken (change for the sake of change), and the response was "because they were hard to find". Then I compared the old to every other part of the overview, seems all the tabs and buttons are the same, and yet somehow these specific ones were too "hard to find" and needed to be changed?
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr261/jn_photo/EvE/button_change_ocean_zps6fe77772.jpg (Top half is old, bottom half is new)
Numerous times in previous patches these types of changes get made, but never actually defended and seem to be change for the sake of change. If someone had issues with these particular buttons then it stands to reason they would have issues with every other button and tab in the interface. I'm not saying they aren't easier to see now, but they weren't exactly difficult to find before.
Can we get any further actual reasoning behind these changes or are they really just changes for the sake of change? |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
836
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Posted - 2014.09.24 21:39:26 -
[2] - Quote
:CCP:
I wonder: These huge buttons everywhere... is CCP actually trying to port EVE to tablets?
Unannounced stuff and unexplained stuff is also most common these days for CCP, just have a look at their latest patch notes. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.09.24 23:01:13 -
[3] - Quote
Though typically the patch notes mention fixing things days/weeks after they broke them, which they didn't mean to break by changing things they didn't tell us about beforehand.
What I would like to see is CCP come out and actually give us a detailed list of what they are changing and why, and especially for something like these buttons (which are the same buttons used all over the game) why these specific buttons are different than the others.
I am tired of all of these changes for the sake of change without backing the change with reasons, legit reasons. |
Noriko Mai
1562
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Posted - 2014.09.25 06:32:21 -
[4] - Quote
It's already in the changes list for over a week (see: Sticky Oceanus now on Singularity) along with some other new buttons. The others don't look that different, though. I can understand that they redo this kind of stuff to overhaul their UI and I guess it's not just a change of some buttons for the sake of it, but comes with the rework of their GUI Toolkit. In my opinion it's a step forward on the way to a more modern looking and less clunky UI. One thing that bothers me is that the Station Service window can't be minimized to top anymore. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
836
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Posted - 2014.09.25 07:23:55 -
[5] - Quote
I mean these patch notes:
Quote:- New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2942
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Posted - 2014.09.25 09:08:42 -
[6] - Quote
Those buttons.. I noticed them too. They look and feel very out-of-place compared to the rest of the UI. |
Noriko Mai
1562
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Posted - 2014.09.25 10:34:17 -
[7] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:I mean these patch notes: Quote:- New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.
This is a totaly normal patch note if they fixed some exploits. What do you want? A detailed explanation of the fixed exploit so everyone knows about it and can try to find a workaround for that fix? |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2527
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Posted - 2014.09.25 11:55:06 -
[8] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:I mean these patch notes: Quote:- New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.
As Noriko points out, that's very much the case when we fix exploits.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:As Noriko points out, that's very much the case when we fix exploits. How bout some patchnotes that explain what the patch was the other day? That is what we are talking about...the little patches with no info...at all.
Also, how about answering the initial question? (usually CCP dodge...answer the 'easy' question...ignore the original one) |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:43:58 -
[10] - Quote
Except that the list those are mentioned in were posted by a normal user account, not a CCP Dev.
Also, without a legit reason for making these buttons different and larger (seems to be a theme on the overall war on screen real-estate requiring either absurdly small scaling which is not good for the eyes, or absurdly larger screens) it doesn't help justify the change. You (CCP) keep saying people are just upset because they don't like change, but then they make changes like this without a reason that appear just to be for the sake of change.
Also, CCP, way to not answer the actual question in yet another thread, gg. |
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland
850
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Posted - 2014.09.25 18:18:26 -
[11] - Quote
The tabs were much smaller and, while not necessarily "hard to find", for a newbro they were how shall we say... not exactly obvious.
The new buttons are much more obvious and thus "easy to find".
For example, overview tabs. I had no idea you could have more than one overview tab for several months if not a whole year.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
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Noriko Mai
1562
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Posted - 2014.09.26 13:36:27 -
[12] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:The tabs were much smaller and, while not necessarily "hard to find", for a newbro they were how shall we say... not exactly obvious.
The new buttons are much more obvious and thus "easy to find".
For example, overview tabs. I had no idea you could have more than one overview tab for several months if not a whole year. Hahaha. You totaly misunderstood the topic It's about the tabs in the station panel. The thing on the right side, while docked. With Agents and stuff. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland
850
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Posted - 2014.09.27 17:15:14 -
[13] - Quote
Noriko Mai wrote:Soldarius wrote:The tabs were much smaller and, while not necessarily "hard to find", for a newbro they were how shall we say... not exactly obvious.
The new buttons are much more obvious and thus "easy to find".
For example, overview tabs. I had no idea you could have more than one overview tab for several months if not a whole year. Hahaha. You totaly misunderstood the topic It's about the tabs in the station panel. The thing on the right side, while docked. With Agents and stuff.
No I didn't. I know exactly what was being discussed. I was drawing a comparison between the old station tabs and the overview tabs as they are of similar size, and thus difficult to find.
There are many things about Eve that are difficult to find. This has been a barrier of entry to many new players for years. I'm glad to see CCP working on this.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
836
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Posted - 2014.09.27 20:03:29 -
[14] - Quote
Noriko Mai wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:I mean these patch notes: Quote:- New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.
This is a totaly normal patch note if they fixed some exploits. What do you want? A detailed explanation of the fixed exploit so everyone knows about it and can try to find a workaround for that fix?
So every patch notes with this message (without the "by fixing a potential exploit") is a fixed exploit? There's couple of them in recent patch history. And since when is security by obscurity acceptable?
And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
16
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Posted - 2014.09.27 21:54:14 -
[15] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared. This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm.
It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1051
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Posted - 2014.09.28 01:52:27 -
[16] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared. This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm. It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does.
This week there was a patch on Wednesday, which included only changes for DUST514 - see this announcement on the DUST website. The EVE client patch was necessary according to my knowledge to include text for new DUST items (which can be seen in the EVE client).
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
476
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Posted - 2014.09.28 10:23:08 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Lil' Brudder Too wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared. This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm. It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does. This week there was a patch on Wednesday, which included only changes for DUST514 - see this announcement on the DUST website. The EVE client patch was necessary according to my knowledge to include text for new DUST items (which can be seen in the EVE client).
So this shpuld be in eve patchnotes "New Dust Items added to database" or whatever
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
923
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Posted - 2014.09.28 12:28:26 -
[18] - Quote
i find it odd that they are fixing the phantasm's shield recharge rate bur not the rest of the sansha ships which have the same issue.. that and i did point it out when they rebalanced the pirate ships..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.09.28 14:41:48 -
[19] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:Lil' Brudder Too wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared. This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm. It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does. This week there was a patch on Wednesday, which included only changes for DUST514 - see this announcement on the DUST website. The EVE client patch was necessary according to my knowledge to include text for new DUST items (which can be seen in the EVE client). So this shpuld be in eve patchnotes "New Dust Items added to database" or whatever CCP can you see part of where we are coming from now? Its not terribly hard to keep this even basic level of communication up. Heck you even told us in patch notes when you were fixing the tournament UI, but just completely forget to inform anyone of most minor changes.
But to the original point, CCP still hasn't given answer to the original question as per normal routine I guess, respond to other questions, which either have already been explained or aren't really important. |
Nicen Jehr
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
404
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:19:26 -
[20] - Quote
agreed i would like to see patch notes for bugfix patches, even if they are just an autogenerated commit log
Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.10.21 13:28:10 -
[21] - Quote
One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):
If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets? |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2527
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Posted - 2014.10.21 14:10:54 -
[22] - Quote
Nicen Jehr wrote:agreed i would like to see patch notes for bugfix patches, even if they are just an autogenerated commit log
And almost all of the time you do, see for instance every followup patch we do for the week/two weeks after a release.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2527
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Posted - 2014.10.21 14:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):
If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets?
You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question. Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.10.21 17:02:06 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question. Never once did I say or make that assumption. Simple solution would be for developers of various areas to be at least somewhat active in forum threads related features they are working on or stuff they changed. And no, I don't mean active by responding to "Firsties!!!" or "Your hair looks good today" posts.
Unless there is a way for us to find out which developers did do work on specific components so we could direct the questions at them specifically?
CCP Goliath wrote:Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response. So then you are responding to questions you can't answer... sounds like a quick note to whoever the UI designers are asking to answer this question wouldn't be too far out of reason?
CCP Goliath wrote:Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response. Funny how this was on the test server when I started the thread, but like most feedback on things, the questions went unanswered, except in this case I continued to follow up instead of giving up like a lot of us have done with soooooo many feedback threads on unfinished features or unanswered questions that have gone by the wayside.
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Nerfed Alliance Go Away
785
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Posted - 2014.10.21 21:42:43 -
[25] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):
If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets? This and most of the other UI and NPE changes that have happened over the last couple months where because of some player testing done by CCP. This was covered by one of the sessions that was streamed at EVE Vegas.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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St1ngerella
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2014.10.22 02:05:29 -
[26] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:You need to stop assuming that we are a hive mind and that one developer is able to answer every question. Never once did I say or make that assumption. Simple solution would be for developers of various areas to be at least somewhat active in forum threads related features they are working on or stuff they changed. And no, I don't mean active by responding to "Firsties!!!" or "Your hair looks good today" posts. Unless there is a way for us to find out which developers did do work on specific components so we could direct the questions at them specifically? CCP Goliath wrote:Neither Habakuk nor I are UI designers, so we have no offhand knowledge about the future of the UI. Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response. So then you are responding to questions you can't answer... sounds like a quick note to whoever the UI designers are asking to answer this question wouldn't be too far out of reason? CCP Goliath wrote:Also, this forum is for discussing features currently on the test server, so if you're talking about something that isn't on the test server (like hypothetical future features), it's unlikely to get a response. Funny how this was on the test server when I started the thread, but like most feedback on things, the questions went unanswered, except in this case I continued to follow up instead of giving up like a lot of us have done with soooooo many feedback threads on unfinished features or unanswered questions that have gone by the wayside.
Why are you so whiny? |
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CCP Delegate Zero
C C P C C P Alliance
158
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Posted - 2014.10.22 02:32:33 -
[27] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):
If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets? This and most of the other UI and NPE changes that have happened over the last couple months where because of some player testing done by CCP. This was covered by one of the sessions that was streamed at EVE Vegas.
Correct. We established a need to increase the visibility of the Agents, Guests and Offices tabs in the station panel after playtesting. We therefore redesigned that element of the station panel UI to increase the visibility of those tabs by changing to larger selection buttons for the Agents, Guests and Offices sections of the panel. This brings the selection interface for those sections more in line with the large format services buttons that have long been in the panel.
There is no general change to EVE's UI implied by this decision. It was a specific decision with regard to a specific UI context based on playtesting data.
CCP Delegate Zero | Game Designer | @CCPDelegateZero
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Xer Jin
Ancient Anomaly and Artifacts Recovery Explorators
114
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:27:42 -
[28] - Quote
is this dude still bitching about some ******* butans LOCK THIS THREAD wasting dve tim like this srsly dude shut up i dont understand what your problem is its 3 fking butans on the station panel GEEZUS! |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
374
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Posted - 2014.10.22 09:59:18 -
[29] - Quote
He doesn't realize that people like him are likely part of the reason if devs don't visit/frequent the forums. No ones forcing them, apart from community persons it's (afaik) not really part of their job. As a customer you have no right to dev interaction. I get that it's a thing these days - and I appreciate it - that more and more devs are getting in the open / in touch with the customers/community, but demanding it, especially in non-friendly ways, I do not understand and definately not appreciate. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
9
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Posted - 2014.10.22 19:46:50 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Salpun wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:One thing that was never answered though (in classic CCP fashion):
If these buttons were "too hard to see" and yet were the same size as the rest of the buttons/tabs in the entire UI, should we be expecting all the remaining buttons to also be supersized? If so where exactly do you propose we free up the necessary screen pixels from or will you be providing us 4k monitors so we can see the game we are playing instead of playing internet spreadsheets? This and most of the other UI and NPE changes that have happened over the last couple months where because of some player testing done by CCP. This was covered by one of the sessions that was streamed at EVE Vegas. Correct. We established a need to increase the visibility of the Agents, Guests and Offices tabs in the station panel after playtesting. We therefore redesigned that element of the station panel UI to increase the visibility of those tabs by changing to larger selection buttons for the Agents, Guests and Offices sections of the panel. This brings the selection interface for those sections more in line with the large format services buttons that have long been in the panel. There is no general change to EVE's UI implied by this decision. It was a specific decision with regard to a specific UI context based on playtesting data. This... this is all that was ever asked for in this thread... though to note, this thread started before EVE Vegas, so to say that it was answered in the EVE Vegas stream is kinda a cop-out.
The reason I continued to ask, because as stated earlier, most issues and changes or feedback never actually get dev responses and then further down the line when something went wrong they say they never got the feedback. Well, they did, they just never bothered to actually acknowledge it. Yes that may sound unnecessarily harsh or mean to feeble people, but the lack of interaction by the very dev's that start feedback threads (even in those threads themselves) has got me to this point.
That and how the first answer was "They were hard to find"... even though they were like that for years and years. Suddenly just now being deemed "hard to find" seemed like a very weak response.
Lastly, something he said just now that took me back a bit... and I want to ask, you sure you are feeling ok? You said CCP did some playtesting to determine the change was needed. It has been my experience over the years on Sisi and the forums that CCP tries their hardest not to playtest changes, and then doesn't understand why people are having issues with them (like the industry change that required corp members to have wallet access in order to start jobs, how does that make it to production?). Too many times have CCP just seemingly outright ignored feedback all-together even though they specifically asked for feedback. Or in some cases asking for feedback at the last minute, and then after being told something was very much broken, saying "well its too far in the development process to change it now" and releasing it anyways.
I'm not trying to **** people off, just attempting for a small bit of dev accountability for changes made without any solid justification that have the potential for more sweeping changes that were never asked for. I'm not blaming the dev's that responded that didn't know, but on that note, if you don't know then you shouldn't be answering in the first place. |
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