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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
33469
|
Posted - 2014.10.11 07:39:02 -
[31] - Quote
+1 for proposal to reduce Medical Clone costs.
I can understand the issue of having to upgrade multiple Medical Clones. Hell, I only have one character active and I don't like the cost of upgrading it's Medical Clone.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21887
|
Posted - 2014.10.11 19:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
The first of my downsized subs cancels itself on the 18th. Here's hoping CCP pulls a white bunny from its hat during the EVE Vegas stream, by announcing a medical clone cost reduction to accompany the unlimited skillqueue. Which hilariously contradicts the points I've made in this thread. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23516
|
Posted - 2014.10.11 19:03:48 -
[33] - Quote
The first of my downsized subs cancels itself on the 18th. Here's hoping CCP pulls a white bunny from its hat during the EVE Vegas stream, by announcing a medical clone cost reduction to accompany the unlimited skillqueue.
Old thread by Marlona Sky (paging Marlona Sky)
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Dwissi
Miners Delight
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 07:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
No way - sorry for being that frank here.
The one and most outstanding difference between Eve and any other MMO has been that particular part. The brutal consequences of bad management of ones character - which mainly refers to the usage of medical clones, implants and jumpclones.
As of today its completely free to get a jump clone due to several corporations offering that kind of service - so that part doesnt even require any big personal management anymore. Implants - well i am not starting to talk about inflation and availability here - this is a self-runner.
So what is left to manage seriously? Keeping your clone updated and freeking pay for it. If your character becomes that smart you force the clone producers to invest a hell of time and technology to stuff all that smartness into a new body. The risk= reward principles of Eve would be completely disabled by lowering those prices. No one forces anyone to become smarter in Eve - its your personal decision. You can leave your skill queue empty and save money that way. Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins Before someone complains again: grrr everyone |
Dwissi
Miners Delight Phoebe Freeport Republic
78
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 07:43:48 -
[35] - Quote
No way - sorry for being that frank here.
The one and most outstanding difference between Eve and any other MMO has been that particular part. The brutal consequences of bad management of ones character - which mainly refers to the usage of medical clones, implants and jumpclones.
As of today its completely free to get a jump clone due to several corporations offering that kind of service - so that part doesnt even require any big personal management anymore. Implants - well i am not starting to talk about inflation and availability here - this is a self-runner.
So what is left to manage seriously? Keeping your clone updated and freeking pay for it. If your character becomes that smart you force the clone producers to invest a hell of time and technology to stuff all that smartness into a new body. The risk= reward principles of Eve would be completely disabled by lowering those prices. No one forces anyone to become smarter in Eve - its your personal decision. You can leave your skill queue empty and save money that way.
Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins
Before someone complains again: grr everyone
Greed is the death of loyalty
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22050
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 20:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
so don't use the new unlimited skillqueue? hell, I agree President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23516
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 20:29:49 -
[37] - Quote
so don't use the new unlimited skillqueue? hell, I agree
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23163
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 06:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'm enjoying the Eve Vegas stream very much. I'm looking forward to the goodies that come with the HD subscription.
Thankfully, and oddly, the accounts that I am uprooting don't expire until late December. So regarding Foxfour's teaser that something is happening... cool, this issue has already been addressed beyond what I hoped at EVE Vegas, and I can wait until December.
I want to keep playing. I will keep playing. If I started downsizing without explaining myself clearly, that would make me a walkout and it would be very immature. I should share my thoughts for the sake of communication. I also think the talking points listed in FoxFour's presentation miss me by quite a bit, and I still have some explaining to do. Things like "lack of choice," "punishes older players," and the 4% ISK sink figure, specifically.
"Choice" never would have occurred to me as a reason to inquire about something like medical clone costs. For me, this is all about the math. maths. Specifically, an equitable relationship between the player and their organization, where the player contributes their time and energy in return for a reasonable amount of support in replacing losses. You know, sustainable.
I am interested in what type of choices you have in mind for medical clone costs. It was completely unexpected, but ok. In the meantime, as they say, the beatings will continue until morale improves.
Regarding reimbursements. They're an excellent indicator of a successful organization, and confidence. Great, but reimbursements are abstract and outside of the game mechanics--members have to apply for reimbursement ~somewhere~ and are subject to review, and only then is the "give money" function used. If reimbursements were handled in-game, then maybe it's something that could be balanced, but for now I hope you agree it's out-of-bounds.
And it should be. Losses need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, which requires human intuition. I don't see you replacing that one, or organizations putting their ISK into such a system if it was created (please tell me we're on the same page here).
Suggesting reimbursements as a solution to medical clone costs is kinda bad, too. It's basically suggesting a player farms their organization. For someone like me, with several accounts that are not controlled with ISBoxer or used for mining, that's the big question. What does this joker plan to do, welp several characters at a time?
To answer that question definitively with a "no," especially without ISBoxer, I can't multibox at all without admitting to some degree that I was not playing at my best, while split between more than one client on grid.
Having accepted this downsizing, and the RP of my characters being put on ice or not being at the helm of their own account, I'm starting to see this as a good thing.
Especially considering jump fatigue changes, and decloaking changes to a lesser degree, it seems multiboxing in null is a completely different meta. Not that copypaste ISBoxer gameplay was ever my thing--it isn't, never was, I won't miss it. But in order to absolve myself of the guilt and even the perception that I'm not contributing the same thing as the next player, it's time to go uniboxing.
Devs and players have talked about ship stashes in response to upcoming changes, and seem to be okay with it. I'm thinking along those lines, but slightly different.
Yes, medical clone costs punish higher SP players. But an even bigger issue worth considering is those characters, once they are trained to a satisfactory level, can stop training and then share an account with other characters. Looking back, that strikes me as more important than my 20 million ISK per pod.
As for the ISK sink, that 4% doesn't reveal anything about assets never undocked, and player behavior that never took place, due to medical clone costs. You can't balance for gameplay that never happens, which is what medical clone costs do. At least for me, it influences my decisions.
4%... how does that compare to other ISK sinks that go to Bob, like abandoned drones, for example. Which, unlike other items lost to explosions, are not tractored by an MTU... President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter | mk.III | Imgur-á | Evening Games Club: the EVE casino concept redefined | |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23516
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 06:39:34 -
[39] - Quote
I'm enjoying the Eve Vegas stream very much. I'm looking forward to the goodies that come with the HD subscription.
Thankfully, and oddly, the accounts that I am uprooting don't expire until late December. So regarding Foxfour's teaser that something is happening... cool, this issue has already been addressed beyond what I hoped at EVE Vegas, and I can wait until December.
I want to keep playing. I will keep playing. If I started downsizing without explaining myself clearly, that would make me a walkout and it would be very immature. I should share my thoughts for the sake of communication. I also think the talking points listed in FoxFour's presentation miss me by quite a bit, and I still have some explaining to do. Things like "lack of choice," "punishes older players," and the 4% ISK sink figure, specifically.
"Choice" never would have occurred to me as a reason to inquire about something like medical clone costs. For me, this is all about the math. maths. Specifically, an equitable relationship between the player and their organization, where the player contributes their time and energy in return for a reasonable amount of support in replacing losses. You know, sustainable.
I am interested in what type of choices you have in mind for medical clone costs. It was completely unexpected, but ok. In the meantime, as they say, the beatings will continue until morale improves.
Regarding reimbursements. They're an excellent indicator of a successful organization, and confidence. Great, but reimbursements are abstract and outside of the game mechanics--members have to apply for reimbursement ~somewhere~ and are subject to review, and only then is the "give money" function used. If reimbursements were handled in-game, then maybe it's something that could be balanced, but for now I hope you agree it's out-of-bounds.
And it should be. Losses need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, which requires human intuition. I don't see you replacing that one, or organizations putting their ISK into such a system if it was created (please tell me we're on the same page here).
Suggesting reimbursements as a solution to medical clone costs is kinda bad, too. It's basically suggesting a player farms their organization. For someone like me, with several accounts that are not controlled with ISBoxer or used for mining, that's the big question. What does this joker plan to do, welp several characters at a time?
To answer that question definitively with a "no," especially without ISBoxer, I can't multibox at all without admitting to some degree that I was not playing at my best, while split between more than one client on grid.
Having accepted this downsizing, and the RP of my characters being put on ice or not being at the helm of their own account, I'm starting to see this as a good thing.
Especially considering jump fatigue changes, and decloaking changes to a lesser degree, it seems multiboxing in null is a completely different meta. Not that copypaste ISBoxer gameplay was ever my thing--it isn't, never was, I won't miss it. But in order to absolve myself of the guilt and even the perception that I'm not contributing the same thing as the next player, it's time to go uniboxing.
Devs and players have talked about ship stashes in response to upcoming changes, and seem to be okay with it. I'm thinking along those lines, but slightly different.
Yes, medical clone costs punish higher SP players. But an even bigger issue worth considering is those characters, once they are trained to a satisfactory level, can stop training and then share an account with other characters. Looking back, that strikes me as more important than my 20 million ISK per pod.
As for the ISK sink, that 4% doesn't reveal anything about assets never undocked, and player behavior that never took place, due to medical clone costs. You can't balance for gameplay that never happens, which is what medical clone costs do. At least for me, it influences my decisions.
4%... how does that compare to other ISK sinks that go to Bob, like abandoned drones, for example. Which, unlike other items lost to explosions, are not tractored by an MTU...
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23700
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 07:31:21 -
[40] - Quote
Hey, just popping back in to get in touch.
All of my account downsizing has happened in the form of cancelling the recurring charges for the subs. However there will still be transfer fees being made as I consolidate mains.
I just want to be clear this isn't about the irl $ (it's about welping half a PLEX in pure med clone costs in a single outing). I have no problem spending the $ for what amounts to a database edit, really. In fact I'm already saving money despite these charges, through reduced sub fees.
I'll have to eat those fees again when it's time to unpack my mains and put them all on their own accounts again.
I just hope you take a very clear headed look at how game mechanics are changing the face of multiboxing in EVE. Some things are far, far removed from the code, and are classic cases of the writing on the wall.
I still love you, just doing what I gotta.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jenna Olgidar
OutLawed Country Inc. Outlaw Nation.
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 13:19:09 -
[41] - Quote
I do believe that it is expensive to lose a pod in eve.
The only thing I would offer would be to before player undocks after there pod has been killed is to have a pop up or something that remind player that there clone is not up to date every time before they undock. (its still up to you to pay for the lost pod implants and clone upgrade.) though this would be just another feature someone would just turn off.
For Price I think the price could be knocked down a bit. 25% would be nice. considering a pilot that plays for long enough his/her clone is going to start getting expensive say 100 mil a pop. (during long wars I have been on the completely broke side. having to wait tell war is over before I can gather some more isk)
Just an idea maybe have titan jump clone bay have the ability to upgrade clones for free or reduced cost, maybe have to pay out to the titan owner. just an idea what do you think.
-Olga
So yeah like my post.
-Olga
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23700
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 13:23:46 -
[42] - Quote
Yeah that's doable. and I'll tell you what I'd do, I'd have me a personal rorqual.
What's your intended response from high sec players who can't have a titan or even a rorqual with them?
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jenna Olgidar
OutLawed Country Inc. Outlaw Nation.
7
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 14:15:20 -
[43] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Yeah that's doable. and I'll tell you what I'd do, I'd have me a personal rorqual.
What's your intended response from high sec players who can't have a titan or even a rorqual with them?
I didn't say rorqual but i see your point. my response to the high sec player. Risk vs Reward. is it worth going out to there to save isk.
Rorqual <--- if you spend this much money to save isk on clones. you clearly need to slow down and give the killboard a break.
-Olga
So yeah like my post.
-Olga
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23702
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 14:18:46 -
[44] - Quote
worth it, if they're free. just for the peace of mind to go out until I find trouble. honest, I'd be a roaming PVPer.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
53
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 21:57:32 -
[45] - Quote
I stopped flying small ships and limited my fun because my 200m sp clone replacement cost a 6 folt of any small t2 ship.
That said, i usualy station spin and troll a bit here. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23836
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 20:15:32 -
[46] - Quote
/thread
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1844
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 21:01:35 -
[47] - Quote
I take it you have watched the o7 show and know that things ARE changing
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23846
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 02:12:44 -
[48] - Quote
yessir, I do.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Sugar Kyle
Snuff Box
764
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 03:39:35 -
[49] - Quote
Wishes answered. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Member of CSM9
CSM9 Weekly Updates
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23846
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 05:12:43 -
[50] - Quote
hah yeah, and a squad of annual subs renewed when it goes live...
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1847
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 05:34:14 -
[51] - Quote
Welcome back
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23848
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 09:54:32 -
[52] - Quote
Thank you.
The thought of squeezing mains onto shared accounts like sardines made me pretty sad. My only comforts were in knowing I would have reduced sub fees while still getting to visit them, and I was hard-limiting med clone fees by the number of characters I could have out at the same time.
It was an equilibrium, but a complete loss of my fanboidom. i'm anxious to have that happiness back at Rhea.
Excuse me for posting such a ragethread in your forum section. I decided to leave my ambien rage post as-is, as a reminder to not do that any more. Also, I don't have an ambien prescription anymore, after telling my psych it wasn't working and that I often ended up awake but blacked out. communicating on forums. when I shouldn't be.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Nektor Davilius
Experimentalist Corporation Reunion
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.06 22:55:32 -
[53] - Quote
Hi all,
we talk about the Medical Clones Cost . But there is another problem that occure purchasing this awesome service: there isn't any written prove you've payed for it. You accidentally don't select it by the mouse and a harldy learned skill can be lost for a long while.
I suggest an email to be sent to your box or a notice to listed so that a double check can guarantee it being active.
I've already opened an ticket via Help popup, the Customer Support recommended me to mantion it here.
Have a good space time,
Nektor |
dark heartt
513
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 00:11:36 -
[54] - Quote
Nektor Davilius wrote:Hi all,
we talk about the Medical Clones Cost . But there is another problem that occure purchasing this awesome service: there isn't any written prove you've payed for it. You accidentally don't select it by the mouse and a harldy learned skill can be lost for a long while.
I suggest an email to be sent to your box or a notice to listed so that a double check can guarantee it being active.
I've already opened an ticket via Help popup, the Customer Support recommended me to mantion it here.
Have a good space time,
Nektor
You'll be happy to know it's not going to matter after tomorrow Nektor. Clone costs are going away, as is SP loss on death (with the exception of T3 cruisers, they still have a skill loss).
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/a-new-era-of-clones/?_ga=1.83639126.1937510030.1411091325
http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
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