It doesn't make sense to me. Why is it wrong to have wormhole self-sufficient on an equal level to null-sec? I hear nullsec has access to ice.

FW both needs little things and a larger overhaul. Until CCP is willing to commit resources to that larger overhaul, they would like to fix as many smaller FW issues as they can.

Hans,

The reason why Faction warfare and Wormholes are tackled together is because they're both activities with a minority of players in them. What percentage of EVE participates in wormholes and faction warfare? 5% maybe?

All I have to say is that I'm extremely disappointed in the CSM for taking an issue like FW that the players have been working on for years now, providing volumes of feedback, and the CSM's response is to tack it on as a FOOTNOTE to a thread about wormholes.

Two Step, your "little things" list included nothing about FW. All you had to do is copy paste the list I've already compiled, the work has already been done for the CSM. Please explain, is this a personal list of stuff that you yourself want to see, or is that the list of things you want to see fixed based on what the community has asked for? If this thread is about FW and wormholes, why are there no FW items in your list?

Can the CSM just be honest if FW is a lower priority to you than even wormholes? I think I can speak for all of the FW community when I say we're tired of the lip service. We've worked tremendously hard, and written volumes about what we'd like to see, condensed those volumes into lists, linked to them, referenced again, explained in even more volume, more lists, more links, and still, today, both CCP and now the CSM are asking us to explain ourselves one more time.

Asking us to list all these things over again, in the body of a thread like this, is extremely insulting. If the CSM is clearly not taking the FW community seriously, why than should CCP? We deserve to know whether this is actually something that any one person in the CSM is willing to step forward and be a champion for, if no one is willing to address FW as a seperate area to fix worthy of its own discussion, than show us that respect at least so we can all stop wasting our time.

Faction Warfare has NOTHING to do with wormholes. Why the two are included in the same topic list is beyond me. This is probably the most disheartening turn of events in the history of this movement to see iterations on FW. We're finally getting momentum from CCP on development, the CSM had asked me to make you a list, I did so, even more feedback supported that list, and the CSM promised to make it a summit talking point.

Yet here we are, a single word in the title of a thread, followed by a list of fixes to wormholes, leaving the players to once again grovel, beg, and plead, for even a simply acknowledgment that one member, just one, has taken time to read the community's feedback, which has been consistent for years now, and include player feedback in the list being brought to CSM.

I apologize for what I know is an angry tone, but really, its just sadness and frustration. I really had a lot of respect for the CSM, appreciate all the time that was taken to respond to my mails, but after all that work, to see Faction Warfare delegated to a word tacked onto a wormhole discussion, is simply unbelievable.

I just don't know what more to say than that.

This is a direct result of years of neglect like this. We were not always a minority activity, its become that way because the fans have mostly given up because they've shared their feedback time and time again only to be ignored.

Look, I'm terribly sorry that you feel that everyone is ignoring FW, but I hate to break it to you, most of EVE is ignoring FW. Like I said to you in EVE mail, we don't have anyone on the current CSM that participates in FW. If you want us to bring up your little issues, you need to tell us what they are, and having them all in one thread makes that easier.

I also think you aren't understanding what Trebor and I said to you. We didn't promise you that everything wrong with FW would be fixed, we asked you for a list of smaller issues, because we wanted to have a list to present to CCP. This doesn't mean CCP is going to fix everything wrong with FW in the next patch (or even ever). This summit topic was a CCP requested topic, not a CSM requested topic.

As far as I can tell, there are far fewer FW folks than people that are living in w-space. Of course, FW needs a lot more work to be fixed, where w-space is mostly in good shape.

Also, since you have clarified that this list was proposed by CCP, and not the CSM, I just wanted to add that I am not personally holding the CSM responsible for somehow failing us once again.

I know that you are not all FW participants, I'm asking you to think beyond a group of niche players and see that lowsec gameplay is stale for the same reasons nullsec is stale - lack of rewards, broken sovereignty mechanics. The things that bother you, bother us in FW as well.

Think of past CSM - their repeated proposals fell on deaf ears because of Incarna and WoD focus - Faction Warfare used to be a much larger talking point. Please don't punish us for having suffered dwindling numbers due to time and attrition - take advantage of this opportunity now that CSM 6 has the privilege to be working with "the new CCP", and help us get the attention that is long overdue.

Our only chance here is for members of the CSM to look beyond pure representational demographics and think about FW fixes on the basis of merit, not simply on popular support.

To clarify again, it wasn't the *list* that was proposed by CCP, it was the session topic.

With regards to convincing CCP to work on FW, that is going to have to mostly fall on the *players* not on the CSM. One of the things the CSM doesn't really do is decide directions for CCP to work on, though we are helpful once said direction has been decided on. If you want CCP to work on FW stuff more, you are going to have to convince them that it is worth working on.

My ongoing fight has been and continues to be not just for the die-hard vets that still participate, but for all the frustrated pilots that have walked away, moved elsewhere, or even left the game because of treatment just like this. Its also for every pilot that has ever said, "I wish there was more small gang PvP" or "1 vs 1 fights are dead" or "lowsec is worthless and boring".

.

I know, since I didn't say something like "my personal list", it is easy to see how you could have misunderstood that list as the definitive CSM list.

Look, I'm terribly sorry that you feel that everyone is ignoring FW, but I hate to break it to you, most of EVE is ignoring FW. Like I said to you in EVE mail, we don't have anyone on the current CSM that participates in FW. If you want us to bring up your little issues, you need to tell us what they are, and having them all in one thread makes that easier.

I also think you aren't understanding what Trebor and I said to you. We didn't promise you that everything wrong with FW would be fixed, we asked you for a list of smaller issues, because we wanted to have a list to present to CCP. This doesn't mean CCP is going to fix everything wrong with FW in the next patch (or even ever). This summit topic was a CCP requested topic, not a CSM requested topic.

As far as I can tell, there are far fewer FW folks than people that are living in w-space. Of course, FW needs a lot more work to be fixed, where w-space is mostly in good shape.

Hans, two step is right. He is here to represent players as they exist in eve now. Not what eve could be.

Fact is CCP has abandoned the only mechanic for frequent quality small gang and solo pvp for so long , very few of us have stuck with eve. Most people who play eve are fine with the blobs and certainly the current csm is fine with it. Some of the alternates I think may have an interest in small scale pvp, or at least they did in the past, but its unclear what they can do.

Not one full delegate on the csm does small scale pvp. It's amazing that ccp still has people clamoring for small scale pvp after they have consistently refused to work on mechanics to bring it about for so long. Really when are we going to give it?

EVE is blob warfare by design. 1000 ship fights make the news in the gamer websites. Players who don't like that leave and have left. Therefore the csm is going to be players who don't mind the blob and have no real interest in mechanics for small scale and solo pvp.

FW isn't going to be something that csm can champion. It's entirely too foreign to them. It will have to be ccp that decides they will finally implement a mechanic that promotes frequent quality small scale pvp.

I think the csm can recognize this. The only people who can give much input would be Elise Randolf and Prometheus. Even there Im not sure prom even knows the mechanics and you may have pissed Elise off with all your whining about pls super caps.

Remember, this is *little* things. I am still working on my personal list, here is what is on it so far:

1) Shields on ships out of a SMA/entering a Pulsar/joining a fleet
2) Better system than POS passwords for POS access (same UI as chat channels, would be awesome)
3) Capital SMAs allowed in w-space
4) Cans in corp hangers. Should be able to name them, open them, put stuff in them
5) Rename all POS structures
6) Randomness in sleeper spawns
7) Don't change sig ids after DT
8) Capital ship SD timers

Remember, this is *little* things. I am still working on my personal list, here is what is on it so far:
6) Randomness in sleeper spawns

One thing I would like to see in highsec is more faction division. Most capsuleer seem to avoid standing-lowering missions. They aren't choosing side, they are just friendly with all faction. I find that lame.

I disagree that FW is the only small gang PVP available. I think that a lot of the folks that went to FW looking for small gang PVP have found it in w-space. I nearly always PVP in fleets of 20 members or lower, often less than 10. If that isn't small gang PVP, I don't know what is.

Hans, two step is right. He is here to represent players as they exist in eve now. Not what eve could be.

Fact is CCP has abandoned the only mechanic for frequent quality small gang and solo pvp for so long , very few of us have stuck with eve. Most people who play eve are fine with the blobs and certainly the current csm is fine with it. Some of the alternates I think may have an interest in small scale pvp, or at least they did in the past, but its unclear what they can do.

Not one full delegate on the csm does small scale pvp. It's amazing that ccp still has people clamoring for small scale pvp after they have consistently refused to work on mechanics to bring it about for so long. Really when are we going to give it?

EVE is blob warfare by design. 1000 ship fights make the news in the gamer websites. Players who don't like that leave and have left. Therefore the csm is going to be players who don't mind the blob and have no real interest in mechanics for small scale and solo pvp.

FW isn't going to be something that csm can champion. It's entirely too foreign to them. It will have to be ccp that decides they will finally implement a mechanic that promotes frequent quality small scale pvp.

WRT FW, if changes are made that make it more popular without addressing the underlying combat mechanics issues the game faces, it'll just blob up.

I can copy and past the list right into this thread if that will make it easier...