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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11127
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:27:00 -
[451] - Quote
Crimewatch has made it more difficult to loot the wrecks of suicide ganked ships. You also get the same sec hit whether you fail or succeed at a gank, unlike before where your sec hit was less severe if you failed to kill the ship. Also, tags for controlling the -5><0 sec status range are expensive. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11127
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:29:00 -
[452] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Nowhere did I say they shouldn't have consequences. Gankers do like to whine though about how they don't want any more consequences, when they have next to none, while a bear cant transport 30m in a hauler without running the risk of being ganked.
So how much should CCP ratchet things up (for the umpteenth time) to make things harder for gankers? Suicide ganks are rare now. They've never made things more challenging for the bears, ever. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1623
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:31:00 -
[453] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Nowhere did I say they shouldn't have consequences.
Your position on the matter is logically inducted via your posts and what you've said. See:
a bear cant transport 30m in a hauler without running the risk of being ganked.
Which they can, BTW, they just have to fit tank. :)
Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's really not. You're delusional if you think it is.
Present your argument then, or accept being incorrect.
Epic Space Cat |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24204
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:39:00 -
[454] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Gank destroyers have like 3900 EHP. In other words, they can be destroyed pretty much instantly by any kind of aggressive ship. Hell, even many DPS-based ships will simply volley them out of the sky (and yes, with them being gankers and all, odds are very much in favour of them being legal targets). A single Talos will be able to kill off 6GÇô7 of them before CONCORD even shows up GÇö unless that has been compensated for by the gankers (it hasn't, because it costs to much), that gank has now insta-failed.
Quote:Kill right right now are completely uselss. GǪaside from letting you ruin a ganker's day by offering free intel and making it a meaningless waste of money to buy back your sec status. As a result, they can choose between being free targets or being obivous targets.
Quote:None of those are even remotely consequences. They are all consequences. Not only that, but they are also all much harsher now than ever before. Just because you are incapable of capitalising on them does not mean they don't exist and don't work. Your incompetence is not a failure of game design or lack of game mechanics.
Quote:a bear cant transport 30m in a hauler without running the risk of being ganked. Good. That means there are actual consequences, then. Although, admittedly, the risks of being ganked if he transports that little are so vanishingly small that you might as well consider that consequence as purely theoretical. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4161
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:47:00 -
[455] - Quote
Andski wrote:So how much should CCP ratchet things up (for the umpteenth time) to make things harder for gankers? Suicide ganks are rare now. They've never made things more challenging for the bears, ever. For starters I'd make killrights relevant. And to be honest, that might even be enough. Make them stay for either the 30 days or until the a proportion of the amount has been lost to them as what they caused, and they would no longer be able to be removed by alts in rookie ships. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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CCP Falcon
8623
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:50:00 -
[456] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Well, that wasn't surprising. Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online.
Suicide ganking has always been possible. Nothing's changed for 11 years.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVE hasn't changed in this respect. CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4161
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:56:00 -
[457] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Your position on the matter is logically inducted via your posts and what you've said. See:
a bear cant transport 30m in a hauler without running the risk of being ganked.
Which they can, BTW, they just have to fit tank. :) Erm no, your logic is incorrect. That was merely an example of how low the bar is on bear consequences. And standard haulers generally can't survived 10-15 T1 catalysts, no matter how much you tank them.
Xuixien wrote:Present your argument then, or accept being incorrect. L O L. You mean like the argument I presented when I originally said it? Vs what? You saying "Yes it is". 0/10, try harder.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
2784
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Posted - 2014.08.29 19:57:00 -
[458] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Tam Althor wrote:Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens? I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.
Risk versus reward would mean a lot more if PvPrs risked their non-PvP mains each now and then.
But then, as an EVE player it is your sole fault if you don't play their way and won't go away. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Dave stark
6781
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 20:00:00 -
[459] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Tam Althor wrote:Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens? I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. Risk versus reward would mean a lot more if PvPrs risked their non-PvP mains each now and then. But then, as an EVE player it is your sole fault if you don't play their way and won't go away.
people who whine about people having multiple accounts are priceless.
you essentially want a random person to get punished for the actions of some one who has nothing to do with the entire situation, just because they have more than one account. it's nonsensical. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24205
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 20:08:00 -
[460] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And standard haulers generally can't survived 10-15 T1 catalysts, no matter how much you tank them. Surviving 10GÇô15 catalysts in a hauler isn't particularly hard, and using 10GÇô15 catalysts means you operate at a loss if the target is carrying 30M worth of goods. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1625
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:13:00 -
[461] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Erm no, your logic is incorrect.
Nope my logic is perfectly fine. You are obviously an anti-greifer, carebear advocate. You whine about how carebears have it soooo hard, and call for stricture consequences to gankers. You never once, as far as I've read, called for stricture consequences for carebears or even advocated that carebears should take even the most rudimentary of steps to protect themselves.
Ergo, your position is fairly obvious to everyone reading.
Lucas Kell wrote:And standard haulers generally can't survived 10-15 T1 catalysts, no matter how much you tank them.
Even the most obtuse gankers aren't going to spend 100-150 million ISK worth of Catalysts to kill an IttyV carrying 30 mil of Omber.
Lucas Kell wrote:L O L. You mean like the argument I presented when I originally said it? Vs what? You saying "Yes it is". 0/10, try harder.
So you're not going to present your argument? Mmkay then. Epic Space Cat |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1625
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:15:00 -
[462] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And standard haulers generally can't survived 10-15 T1 catalysts, no matter how much you tank them. Surviving 10GÇô15 catalysts in a hauler isn't particularly hard, and using 10GÇô15 catalysts means you operate at a loss if the target is carrying 30M worth of goods.
This Lucas guy. He's kinda special. Epic Space Cat |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
676
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 20:17:00 -
[463] - Quote
Tippia wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote:I am saying there are some but not enough options to fit tank. It is so easy and cost to little to gank freighters atm that people are doing it on empty freighters for the lulz. It has never been more difficult. It has never been as rare. Costs have only ever gone up. So where on earth do you get the idea that it should be even more difficult and costly? If it's so easy and cheap, why aren't everyone doing it? Why are so few killed? Why is it so ridiculously safe to fly a freighter? Quote:Ganking should always be possible but it should come at a greater price and with greater consequences Why? Quote:not with the trivial shat we have now where alts are trained and disposed of like a revolving door. Do you have any proof whatsoever to suggest that anything even remotely like that is actually happening? Where is your proof? This is typical tippia BS same process same methods. With the changes to the ships gankers can field more dps for less cost. Gee yes things are more expensive then 5 -10 years ago but the scale of ganking to profit and ease of ganking has done nothing but gone up and gotten easier.
Yes more people are ganking not only for profit but for the lulz only because it is so cheap and because Blue-sec has very little going on
Give haulers a chance to fit better tank because shooting back wont effect the gank.
I understand the tears from the crybaby gankers. You dont want to loose your sport of clubbing baby seals on the beach.
Just like the tears from the barge changes this to shall pass. People will adapt or HTFU.
Gankers have had to easy for to long it is time for a change. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11127
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:17:00 -
[464] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:For starters I'd make killrights relevant. And to be honest, that might even be enough. Make them stay for either the 30 days or until the a proportion of the amount has been lost to them as what they caused, and they would no longer be able to be removed by alts in rookie ships.
So if you take part in a titan kill in lowsec you'll have open kill rights on you until you yourself lose a titan's worth of ships
Fantastic idea there Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Paul Maken
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
48
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:17:00 -
[465] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Nothing's changed for 11 years.
That's not true. There have been several changes.
Some made ganking harder:
1.) The change to deny insurance payout to people who get CONCORDOKKEN had a big impact. Gankers went from paying for 30% of a hull to paying for 100%, which has been an extra 30-50m in cost to the gankers depending on where the hull price has fluctuated. 2.) The recent change giving freighters low slots lets you get far more EHP than was possible previously. This both lets you move more valuable cargos safely, but it also means that the gankers need to get a ship scan of freighters as well as a cargo scan. 3.) Kill rights can now be made available/sold. It used to be that if you ganked a hauling/industrial character then the kill right they got was almost meaningless. Now, when you get a kill right on you it actually does matter.
Others have made ganking easier:
4.) The addition of the Tier 3 battlecruisers, especially the high alpha of the Tornadoes, reduced the cost of ganking with fewer larger ships until the insurance change came to balance that out. 5.) The ability to buy back security status with tags made it possible for profitable ganking to be sustained by buying tags instead of needing to spend a lot of time ratting back up above -5. This makes the loss of security status less of a penalty than it used to be.
Overall, the changes have balanced out to keep the risk/reward relationships in check. |
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
306
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 20:19:00 -
[466] - Quote
When i like someone i dont try an change the things i dont like about them to suit my tastes, because simply put then they aint the same person i like to begin with an i wonder why they changed to somein i dont like
If you like eve why try an change it? if u dont like it why u even here? |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1625
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 20:21:00 -
[467] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Gee yes things are more expensive then 5 -10 years ago but the scale of ganking to profit and ease of ganking has done nothing but gone up and gotten easier.
Gank:profit ratios depends entirely on other players. It's your choice if you want to be a profitable target are not.
There is no reason to cry cry cry when the power is in your hands.
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Yes more people are ganking not only for profit but for the lulz only because it is so cheap and because Blue-sec has very little going on
- How cheap is ganking? Tell me, give me some hard numbers.
- What does "Blue-Sec" (I'm assuming you mean NullSec) have to do with it?
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Give haulers a chance to fit better tank because shooting back wont effect the gank.
CCP just recently allowed freighters to fit tank. An unprecedented move, and you're crying for "the chance to fit better tank"? Jesus! The entitlement in you people is endless.
BTW it doesn't matter how much chance you have to fit tank if you're not going to use it, so what are you crying about?
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:I understand the tears from the crybaby gankers.
The only one crying here is you.
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Just like the tears from the barge changes this to shall pass.
What tears? I did some of my best ganking after the update. Epic Space Cat |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
186
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:21:00 -
[468] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Well, that wasn't surprising. Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online. Suicide ganking has always been possible. Nothing's changed for 11 years. Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVE hasn't changed in this respect.
In that case I think I'll create a gank alt and pop newbs running the tutorial missions. After all, CCP is not there for hand holding and players have everything they need at their disposal. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2784
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:22:00 -
[469] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Tam Althor wrote:Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens? I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. Risk versus reward would mean a lot more if PvPrs risked their non-PvP mains each now and then. But then, as an EVE player it is your sole fault if you don't play their way and won't go away. people who whine about people having multiple accounts are priceless. you essentially want a random person to get punished for the actions of some one who has nothing to do with the entire situation, just because they have more than one account. it's nonsensical.
I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it:
- buy myself an armored truck and blow yours - bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck.
Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
306
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:23:00 -
[470] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Well, that wasn't surprising. Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online. Suicide ganking has always been possible. Nothing's changed for 11 years. Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVE hasn't changed in this respect. In that case I think I'll create a gank alt and pop newbs running the tutorial missions. After all, CCP is not there for hand holding and players have everything they need at their disposal.
Read the rules, next time try no be a smart arse you just make yourself out to be a stupid count |
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Dave Stark
6781
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:30:00 -
[471] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Tam Althor wrote:Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens? I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. Risk versus reward would mean a lot more if PvPrs risked their non-PvP mains each now and then. But then, as an EVE player it is your sole fault if you don't play their way and won't go away. people who whine about people having multiple accounts are priceless. you essentially want a random person to get punished for the actions of some one who has nothing to do with the entire situation, just because they have more than one account. it's nonsensical. I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it: - buy myself an armored truck and blow yours - bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck. Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude.
so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one else roadkilled one of yours? you are aware how stupid that is, right? |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2784
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:36:00 -
[472] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it: - buy myself an armored truck and blow yours - bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck. Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one roadkilled one of yours? you are aware how stupid that is, right?
He's not a random person. He's the guy who pays your bills. Your sheeps for my sheeps. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Dave Stark
6781
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 20:42:00 -
[473] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it: - buy myself an armored truck and blow yours - bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck. Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one roadkilled one of yours? you are aware how stupid that is, right? He's not a random person. He's the guy who pays your bills. Your sheeps for my sheeps.
no, he's a random person that has nothing to do with your sheep. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3837
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:43:00 -
[474] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it: - buy myself an armored truck and blow yours - bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck. Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one roadkilled one of yours? you are aware how stupid that is, right? He's not a random person. He's the guy who pays your bills. Your sheeps for my sheeps. that's not how responsibility works
also what is this line of conversation even about this is the only post in this thread i've cared to read besides falcon's which are beautiful posts made by a beautiful man |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
446
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:43:00 -
[475] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:you are aware how stupid that is, right? Mental capabilities are rarely used by those that dislike the fact that (even non consensual) pvp is part of eve in discussions like this. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Xer Jin
Ancient Anomaly and Artifacts Recovery Explorators
109
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:52:00 -
[476] - Quote
WOW look at all the loser crying in this thread about getting ganked i'm almost tempted to join a corp that specialize in ganking just to get in on these tears. anyone know a good corp to join. |
Luukje
The Phoenix Rising
15
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:01:00 -
[477] - Quote
so many tears...
the whole cry for more tank fitting options on haulers is just silly; as the haulers that are being ganked are the ones refusing to fit tank. the problem isnt not having the ability to tank ur badger to 80k ehp, its you choosing to not fit that tank. derp |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24206
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:06:00 -
[478] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Where is your proof? In every patchnote from Trinity and onwards. And in the economy presentation from every Fanfest from 2008 and onwards. And on the killboards. And in dev statements. Where's yours?
Quote:the scale of ganking to profit and ease of ganking has done nothing but gone up and gotten easier. Prove it.
Quote:Give haulers a chance to fit better tank because shooting back wont effect the gank. This has already happened. Why is more needed? And how come shooting back doesn't work all of a sudden?
Angeal MacNova wrote:In that case I think I'll create a gank alt and pop newbs running the tutorial missions. Yes, please do this. Can I have your stuff? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:25:00 -
[479] - Quote
Shooting back really is stupid advice, no offense to anyone who's recommended it.
Badgers can fit 70,000 EHP. Impels 800,000 EHP. RF/Push do freighter runs for dirt cheap
The only people that have a right to complain at that point are the big courier groups like RF and Push. Oh wait, they aren't complaining, because they web-warp their freighter each time a bump ship is on grid.
Let's assume you really want to fly your own freighter though. And let's assume web-warping didn't exist. Grab a Providence and fit it with deadspace armor resists. Then grab a couple buddies, or alts. Put them in a Nestor. Congrats! One of those Nestors reps enough back to counter six Talos gank ships. You have two of them. Yes, bring two minimal. If they try ganking the Nestor you need to rep it back. This is also why I said shooting back is stupid advice; that shooter is always better off having brought a Nestor to add more numbers to the logi totals.
Threads like this should be stickied, just so new players can see how absurd the notion of nerfing ganking is and how much of an advantage the gankee has. |
Ned Thomas
Angry Rockbiters M1NER CONFL1CT
129
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:26:00 -
[480] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Give haulers a chance to fit better tank
Screw just fitting a better tank. Go for broke. I want my Mammoth to be able to align and warp under two seconds, have an unscannable 200,000 m3 fleet hanger, +9 warp core strength, a 90% native omni resistance profile, enough base hit points to tank a fleet of smartbombing battleships, and a giant balloon in the shape of a middle finger that deploys if someone even yellowboxes it. |
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