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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
687
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Posted - 2014.09.02 04:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
I would address the hacking game in three stages.
1) remove the ability to cargo scan the container (see why in #2) 2) add bonuses to loot in the actual hacking game. Add nodes that are "extra loot or treasures.
To explain. You start decrypting, you run into a bonus loot node, decrypt it, and extra loot goes into the container (which you are still in the middle of hacking). You then find the main node and decrypt it, opening the container and giving you the original container loot and any extra loot from decrypted treasure nodes.
Or you spend your time scanning all the nodes in the decryption game trying to find more treasures. You spend more time getting more loot, run the risk of being attacked or failing the game. You remove the speed of it by adding bonuses to decrypting more of the board trying to find hidden loot.
You add a bonus to spending more time decrypting more of the board. Determining what is in the can at that point is pointless, as you will want to try all cans to get bonus loot. Yaay!!!! |
Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
45
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Posted - 2014.09.02 06:29:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:[quote=Jeremiah Saken]
Space Glitter primarily exists to beef up our content creating capabilities. For example right now we're making it considerably easier for Game Designers to create new NPCs without needing a lot of specialist knowledge. As part of that we're also visiting old content and systems that could do more than they are. Currently we're looking at Escalating Path missions and adding in some more dynamic content to the game using the underlying systems that are the basis of Incursions. Although those latter projects are both in very early stages.
We have 20% time which is an idea that Google created to drive innovation. It means we can elect to spend 1/5th of our time working on projects we want to. In my case that's making Hacking better. We still need to follow all the same process that gets a feature out of the door in a release but we get to explicitly pick exactly what we work on.
I hope that clears up whats going on a bit behind-the-scenes.
Am i reading this correctly, that your're looking at escalation mechanics, for exploration?
On OP - I must disagree with mechanics being crap. I actually like them very much. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2440
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 07:06:00 -
[93] - Quote
Never had a problem with the hacking mini-game, though it has room for improvement.
What I do think would be a nice change, is "themed" loot from the sites; example a shattered life support unit could have a slight chance for a single run implant BPC. A ship yard could have a miniscule chance for a faction ship BPC or ship skin BPC. Abbandoned mining installation could have some compounds or alloys like rogue drones used to dorp.
Maybe even a new type of hybrid style site (basically old style data/relic) that has both rats and hacking containers. Edit: would be neat to start seeing faction navy hacking sites also. - |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2014.09.02 08:03:00 -
[94] - Quote
please, remove the distinction between data and relic tools, as it is now they do exactly the same thing but you differentiate between mods and rigs, there's no reason for that. if you want people to fill more slots so their explo ships wont be as good at fighting, just add some kind of bonus mod - for eg mods that give either virus "hp" or "dps" so one can choose which would help more. |
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CCP Bayesian
1189
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Posted - 2014.09.02 08:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Fonac wrote: Am i reading this correctly, that your're looking at escalation mechanics, for exploration?
On OP - I must disagree with mechanics being crap. I actually like them very much.
No, we're looking at them in their own right. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter |
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Flamespar
Pradox One Proficiency V.
1233
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Posted - 2014.09.02 08:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Lastly, how do you distribute tasks beetwen ppl in teams? You are working on hacking, someone else on loot tables etc. Wouldn't be good to assign ppl to specific works and keep them there when in need? Like, you've done hacking, project closed, now someone else want to do some tweaks, for example Fozzie, without knowledge about hacking, and messes with your vision and aproach to part of exploration by puting space invaders in it. Or it's just whole Space Glitter working and brainstorming on task? Sometimes it feels like some devs being punished and being assigned to ungrateful works. Usually we work quite collaboratively, with each discipline area taking the lead for their own work. I'm a bit odd as although I'm a Software Engineer by title I've also throughout my career at CCP and other game studios done a lot of design work. For example a lot of the 'exploring ships as an avatar' prototype came from myself (and the rest of the team working on it). It's interesting because we made it before survival sims became popular and it shared a lot in common with them. I've also talked extensively about our prototyping at Fanfest and you can find the talk on the CCP channel. The 'bad' old way with six month releases often meant we got reassigned to something new at the end of a release with no time to work on it further. With the current new awesome model there is a lot more freedom for the people making changes to the game to control their own work. We still don't get to work on *anything* but are much less micro-managed as long as we have a good case for what we're doing. Space Glitter primarily exists to beef up our content creating capabilities. For example right now we're making it considerably easier for Game Designers to create new NPCs without needing a lot of specialist knowledge. As part of that we're also visiting old content and systems that could do more than they are. Currently we're looking at Escalating Path missions and adding in some more dynamic content to the game using the underlying systems that are the basis of Incursions. Although those latter projects are both in very early stages. We have 20% time which is an idea that Google created to drive innovation. It means we can elect to spend 1/5th of our time working on projects we want to. In my case that's making Hacking better. We still need to follow all the same process that gets a feature out of the door in a release but we get to explicitly pick exactly what we work on. I hope that clears up whats going on a bit behind-the-scenes.
I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars?
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
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CCP Bayesian
1192
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Posted - 2014.09.02 09:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars?
Sadly no, it's beyond the scope of a 20% project really. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
78
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Posted - 2014.09.02 09:44:00 -
[98] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars? If so, avatars would be primarly used in exploration or other stuff as well, like stations? Do you have any testers for above? I wouldn't mind to test it. I'm not scared with harsh graphic, concept is what matter the most. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á
I am the night. I'm Bantam. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1506
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Posted - 2014.09.02 10:26:00 -
[99] - Quote
There is a bad quality video from a Russian eve meeting where they showed the prototype.
It's not something that is coming anytime soon. It's something ccp has experimented with. It's exploration into the unknown territory of avatar gameplay. Right now, the focus is on spaceship gameplay and there is a mountain of work to do before ccp as a company can afford reducing eve-spaceship development to increase eve-avatar development Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
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Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
0
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Posted - 2014.09.02 10:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
i enjoy the mini-game but wouldn't argue against increasing the skill involved - but please, no automation. of course, you can still blindly luck into it, same as you could by randomly selecting answers in a multiple choice questionnaire, but there's definitely a degree of skill here.
also, the donkeys moaning about it preventing you from monitoring local/d-scan. that's kind of the point, get better at multi-tasking.
i support anything to make it harder for the OMGIWANTMYLEWTS4FREEANDNOEFFORT crowd. looking forward to an iterative improvement on what we already have. |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
78
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Posted - 2014.09.02 10:52:00 -
[101] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:It's not something that is coming anytime soon. It's something ccp has experimented with. It's exploration into the unknown territory of avatar gameplay. Right now, the focus is on spaceship gameplay and there is a mountain of work to do before ccp as a company can afford reducing eve-spaceship development to increase eve-avatar development Not necessarily. Dust was announced on PC. It's like PvP avatars. I'm completely laic from software side ofc, i don't know if EvE and PC version of Dust can be merged, but if they can, what keeps you from implement non combat activity? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á
I am the night. I'm Bantam. |
Flamespar
Pradox One Proficiency V.
1233
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Posted - 2014.09.02 11:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars?
Sadly no, it's beyond the scope of a 20% project really.
It's a shame. EVE for me is a game about exploration. And it's a shame that there's a part of EVE we can't explore.
There's nothing more frustrating for an explorer than a locked door. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3525
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 11:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
I think the current hacking mechanic gets the balance right in keeping you in the site long enough that the site can sometimes drive conflict. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group
158
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing.
Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy.
DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief.
A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter.
I know this is a little off topic, but as you mentioned loot balance... I wonder at this point if you guys even realize that the drone combat sites are a complete waste of time right now? You must have data on this from site completions, no one that knows better does them, they sit in space till they despawn. |
Arronicus
Caldari Navy Reconnaissance
1123
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:54:00 -
[105] - Quote
I too, really enjoy the current hacking mechanic, but some little improvements and rebalances to it would be nice. The rewards do certainly feel a little underwhelming for the effort involved though. I can understand that the more sties there are, the lower the rewards have to be to prevent oversaturation of rewards on the market, and that people want lots of sites to be able to explore that content, but perhaps a revision to the rarity dynamic is in order. More hacking sites with inferior rewards, and a smaller number with higher end rewards, like the faction bpcs. Keep the accessibility up to the minigame, but make the high value sites scarce but present. |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1378
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Posted - 2014.09.02 18:06:00 -
[106] - Quote
I don't agree with OP, scanning in EVE is worse than hacking. Pale bubbles in empty space with schematic orbits, stars, planets - it look like a game from the age of cassette computers in 80s. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
117
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Posted - 2014.09.03 08:08:00 -
[107] - Quote
Sinnish Saken wrote:Disagree. I personally feel like I'm playing the game when I work through the mini-game.
There is a secondary reason for the mini-game IMO. It increases the time you spend at a site, meaning more actual skill = more isk, and also increases the amount of time you aren't looking at your d-scan..leading to content. Without the mini game I don't think anyone would get caught in a site unless someone is already in it waiting for you, wouldn't wish that camping on anyone. That's a reduction in content from both the hunter and the prey w/o the minigame.
And for the rewards I believe they're still worth it.
Kinda ok with the minigame if it didn't take up so much real estate onscreen, would be better if it were possible to get a virus strength over 40. Having the minigame at nullsec strength in hisec cosmos sites is dumb. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
117
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Posted - 2014.09.03 08:51:00 -
[108] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing.
Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy.
DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief.
A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter. I know this is a little off topic, but as you mentioned loot balance... I wonder at this point if you guys even realize that the drone combat sites are a complete waste of time right now? You must have data on this from site completions, no one that knows better does them, they sit in space till they despawn.
Contract me bookmarks, I'm making out well on drone sites with the nexus chips and sentient mods TYVM. |
jullll
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
1
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Posted - 2014.09.03 09:28:00 -
[109] - Quote
REWARD IS NOT WORTH IT I totaly lost interest of this activity. I loved it, thx CCP...
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S'No Flake
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
36
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:28:00 -
[110] - Quote
jullll wrote:REWARD IS NOT WORTH IT I totaly lost interest of this activity. I loved it, thx CCP...
Because of all the pussies hating the loot spew now it's not worth it anymore. While before you could make billions, now it's just worthless.
Really... what was so difficult to click those cans? |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
78
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Posted - 2014.09.05 06:15:00 -
[111] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:Because of all the pussies hating the loot spew now it's not worth it anymore. While before you could make billions, now it's just worthless.
Yhm, because activity that can be run in cheap frigate with low skills should grant that kind of money. My last trip to null: casually played, 2 hours daily for 7 days, almost billion hauled back to empire. Wormhole travel, zero risk. There weren't any bubbles on my way so i'm thinking of switching my tengu for astero, will be even faster. Nerf was expected, exploration is way to easy now.
S'No Flake wrote:Really... what was so difficult to click those cans? There was a giant thread about it. Reading is hard? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á
I am the night. I'm Bantam. |
Kyoko Onzo
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.09.06 16:38:00 -
[112] - Quote
I initially disliked the mini game; however it's a much better system than when I originally (and lastly) did exploration. Then progression sites had area equivalent rats (so BS as well in places), there were no SOE (and for a time no T3) ships and no mobile depots, so it was a real pain in the behind. I'm glad they got rid of the rats (seems fair for a ship fit for scanning not to have to do a mini combat site). Can't just, basically hand over loot though, so the mini game is a more than fair trade off (and just waiting for a module to access the can means someone can just watch local without losing attention - aka no risk).
I kind of enjoy that it's an active thing now. As well it's provided for a few ganks which I'm enjoying as well!! Loot is fair too, but some better bpc's from relic sites would be appreciated. Anyways, much better than when I first ran explo sites. And, uh, scanning sites down now.... You have no idea how long that took, scanning is so easy now. Quit whining exploration is still easy isk. |
Roche Pso
Deltole Research Labs
1
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Posted - 2014.09.08 12:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
I like the mini game
I have killed https://zkillboard.com/kill/40268566/ and been killed https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752079 due to the mini game.
If it is going to be changed or replaced it needs to be with something that ties up your attention for the time needed to get ganked. |
Valhallas
New Eden Robotics
24
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Posted - 2014.09.08 16:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
Like someone else said -
Should have stolen the Paradroid mini game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWmNdT7gVKs
1min 30secs in |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29042
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 20:30:00 -
[115] - Quote
Roche Pso wrote:If it is going to be changed or replaced it needs to be with something that ties up your attention for the time needed to get ganked. Actually it already does that and if you need ganking to be made even easier, then you need better tactics.
Anyway, not very many people do those sites right now and if it's changed to make ganking even easier, then nobody is gonna do those sites, thus making those sites a waste of invested Dev time.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
32
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Posted - 2014.09.10 05:41:00 -
[116] - Quote
Take it from someone who's done almost nothing but relic and data sites since joining EVE. There is nothing wrong with the hacking mini-game. They can be completed in a matter of seconds.
Exhibit A: How to play the hacking minigame. \o) Exhibit B: How to play the hacking minigame. \o/ Exhibit C: How to play the hacking minigame. (o/
There was nothing wrong with the old loot canisters either. I was mildly put off by the reduction in loot that came about because CCP wanted to change the looting mechanic for all the people that complained about it. Nobody that actually did the sites regularly before the change was bothered by the mechanic as they adapted to it and learned what to click and what not to click.
I don't like market PVP, so I don't do market PVP. That doesn't make it a pile of crap.
Fed up of next to no loot in your containers? Stop doing high-sec sites which are awful. Go take some risks and explore low-sec or null.
Failing that, go and find something you do enjoy doing and stop asking for silly changes to a system that works perfectly fine for those that enjoy it. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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Travis Ulvaris
Reliquary of Haimaktos
0
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Posted - 2014.09.10 12:25:00 -
[117] - Quote
The minigame is a nice addition.... 'nough said |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
79
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Posted - 2014.09.10 13:54:00 -
[118] - Quote
Lucrii Dei wrote:Take it from someone who's done almost nothing but relic and data sites since joining EVE. There is nothing wrong with the hacking mini-game. They can be completed in a matter of seconds. I did one can in two clicks once. First was defensive node, second was system core. It doesn't mean i do not want improvement in whole system.
Lucrii Dei wrote:There was nothing wrong with the old loot canisters either. I was mildly put off by the reduction in loot that came about because CCP wanted to change the looting mechanic for all the people that complained about it. Nobody that actually did the sites regularly before the change was bothered by the mechanic as they adapted to it and learned what to click and what not to click.
Again there was a very long thread why scattering cans was bad idea. Just because you liked, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.
Lucrii Dei wrote:Failing that, go and find something you do enjoy doing and stop asking for silly changes to a system that works perfectly fine for those that enjoy it. Some of us like pong, some of us want something better. I don't like some of the changes to exploration that was made in odyssey but they may be changed someday. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á
I am the night. I'm Bantam. |
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
32
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Posted - 2014.09.10 20:27:00 -
[119] - Quote
I never liked nor hated scatter cans. I just accepted them as a feature and learned how to deal with them. There wouldn't be any suffering if others did the same. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
127
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Posted - 2014.09.14 21:53:00 -
[120] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying.
there is no skill to it, 1 hack the finish point is right next to you and another hack its clear on the other side, in a corner, in the basement with no lights in a locked filing cabinet on display, and a firewall every other node "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
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