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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1351
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Posted - 2014.08.15 05:23:00 -
[211] - Quote
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
1) First of all, I don't think the mission text should offer much, if any, detail about the target, such as their ammo type and combat strategy. Shouldn't these be learned by experience? Doesn't giving this information before hand already give away most of the content of these missions? Immediately, players can EFT fits that will likely counter these shipsGÇöshouldn't there be some mystery?
2) Will the Burners warp away if they get into hull and are not scrammed?They shouldGÇöfailure to point/scram these ships should typically result in the loss of the mission insofar as they should leave (like any decent pilot would!) if not pinned down. If these targets do not need to be pointed etc. these missions will likely be very easy. I think these missions should be on the harder side, as opposed to easily farmable (like essentially most of EVE's PVE).
Good points, both of them so
1) I think (and this is just me talking) that the EFT and theory crafting is PART of this missions experience. Yes, eve survival will most likely have a solution up soon enough but to make your own, to show it CAN be done in an (insert little loved ship here) is going to be part of the challenge
2) I agree, they should though I may be able to justify the mission being completed because you hold the firld, the loss being no access to any visits from the loot fairy.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Dave Stark
6750
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Posted - 2014.08.15 05:26:00 -
[212] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:I do L4s and I'd do frigate missions any day, (in fact I would rather do them if they earn isk). Demographic doesn't matter, people use BSes out of necessity, not out of "loving using BSes only"
exactly. i'd love to just jump in a frigate and do a few of these missions.
although having to trudge through l4s to get them, means i won't. instead i'll skip them and keep trudging through l4s in my certainly not frigate mission ship. |
Dave Stark
6750
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Posted - 2014.08.15 05:27:00 -
[213] - Quote
Also, i just want to make it clear; i think the idea of burner missions is awesome and i love it.
however, how you access them is dire and shouldn't be included in the game in the way described in the devblog. that's literally the only issue with burner missions.
they were described as level 4 missions, but really they're just rng based storyline missions. (something else i occasionally skip if it isn't convenient) |
Nenwe
Aideron Robotics
0
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Posted - 2014.08.15 07:13:00 -
[214] - Quote
I agree that there should be these Burner missions for Cruisers and even Battleships (have been waiting a change to get some faction drops even with small change from missions for long long time). Also you should be allowed to choose if you do Burners or normal level4 missions
There is bit too big gap between Tier 3, 4 and 5 there should be Tier 3.5 tier 4.5 missions (also running missions a lot makes you familiar with em and since there is no evolvement of the missions since 2006 on majority of missions) How about you make dynamic missions so you have 2 friends in missions with you the mission would spawn extra targets you fly solo well reduce the spawns by 20%.
Also evolving missions and new mission types in generall would be welcome addition you could take example from Incursions for missions
And dont try to force people to go into low sec / null sec constantly (you add new things to low sec and null sec but dont fix the problems allready present in there (Being a pirate has no real consequences for example) (neutrals have no business in FW plexes and if they do arrive there sould be extra reward for FW pilot to take em down as pirates) (0.0 is static) |
ISquishWorms
249
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Posted - 2014.08.15 07:33:00 -
[215] - Quote
I like the sound of this esp as the small fast ships types are some of my favorites to fly. GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ. |
Kale Freeman
Dirt 'n' Glitter I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
29
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Posted - 2014.08.15 07:38:00 -
[216] - Quote
1. Get faction standing to 5 (access to hundreds of lvl 4 agents) 2. Get me a super frigate killer, fast warping ship. 3. Plot a route through as many lvl 4 agents as possible. 4. Reject anything that isn't a burner 5. Profit?
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Saron Dax
Blacklight Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:00:00 -
[217] - Quote
Not seen a response to this question yet...
Will these missions vary *within* a faction? Will the Angels Burner, for example, always be a sig tanking dramiel with the same loadout and stats, or will there be different set-ups of dramiel that randomly get used? It strikes me that without any random variation that these missions will be figured out by the players and optimized like all the other missions in eve and will become stale very quickly. |
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
242
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:17:00 -
[218] - Quote
1) i like the general idea, but why is it only frigatte sized? i'm an eve player for 8 year, i'd like to have those missions for the full range of ships that i can fly
2) why do i need to grind those boring l4 missions to get a chance to play missions that are actually interesting?
3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
409
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:18:00 -
[219] - Quote
Celldoom wrote:Another alternative is for enemies in lvl4 missions to drop "passkeys" to these hidden pirate lairs where players can warp to and do them separately. These keys can even be sold on the market.
This is an idea worth looking into. +1
Maybe the passkeys could be used to set an autopilot route to the system where the pirate lair is and there the lair needs to be probed out? The passkey could also gives a bonus to said probing so the passkey owner has an advantage on finding the lair. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Nenwe
Aideron Robotics
0
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:24:00 -
[220] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Celldoom wrote:Another alternative is for enemies in lvl4 missions to drop "passkeys" to these hidden pirate lairs where players can warp to and do them separately. These keys can even be sold on the market. This is an idea worth looking into. +1 Maybe the passkeys could be used to set an autopilot route to the system where the pirate lair is and there the lair needs to be probed out? The passkey could also gives a bonus to said probing so the passkey owner has an advantage on finding the lair.
No just no too much scanning allready.
It is mission after all not a scanning site |
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Loki Vice
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
58
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:33:00 -
[221] - Quote
I was excited for these, missions for PvP players to make money who can't be assed to train for garbage battleships to run normal level 4s. but I have to run those same garbage missions just to get the chance of getting these?
5/10 CCP, good idea, shotty implementation. |
Ynef
Tesseract Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:35:00 -
[222] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:OK a few more thoughts now that I can spend some time writing them up.
Firstly, the audience for these missions and for existing L4 missions won't overlap very much.
L4 mission dabblers usually focus on battleship skills, L4 grinders on Marauders or HACs.
Those skills do not translate much to flying frigates. And those with good frigate skills don't often crosstrain into battleships.
I'm actually in the minority that has decent (A-) Marauder skills, very solid (A to A+) HAC skills and decent (A-) Assault Frigate skills, mainly because when I was newer, I wanted tech 2 battleship guns, and tech 2 Cruiser and Frigate guns were prerequisites for that back then - this is no longer true.
This means that standard level 4 missions should not be a prerequisite for these Burner Missions. At all. (Likewise I see no reason for burner missions to be prerequisites for L4 missions either, but the proposal doesn't have that in it).
Secondly, these pose an opportunity to have something additional in lowsec that's worth fighting over.
Mordrus belt spawns led to more activity in lowsec belts and more fights. These missions could do so even better - bringing together players in ISK generating activities in specific locations that are carried out in PVP fitted ships.
My suggestions:
- Keep these as rare offerings from existing L4 agents. No penalty for declining them. This is to give carebears an opportunity to try something different - something they may just like.
- Add them to the L5 rotation as well, for something different to do.
- Add specialist 'burner agents' to a small number of locations in lowsec, with some in the quietest areas of low (non-FW Placid, Solitude). These would offer burner missions all day, every day and would not offer anything else, but would follow normal rules for declining missions. Put some of these agents in places where the burner objective could be in either lowsec or nullsec, and (different) agents where the objective could be in either highsec or lowsec, and maybe have some that are always in low.
- Add about 10 more restricted burner agents to highsec. These would be new L4 agents that would offer only one burner mission per 18 hours. Accept or decline as you see fit, you don't get another chance to use that agent until the time expires.
- These missions should take place over a wider geographical area than most missions do. Travelling 6j for one of these isn't onerous as you will be in a frigate. Again, this gets players into areas that are unfamiliar and new, and often will send highsec players into lowsec in a ship they can afford to lose.
- Work on level 3 versions of these for the future as well. Something a bit easier and less rewarding for lowskilled players that want practice against competent but not brilliant opposition. These burners would fly assault frigates or destroyers with tech 2 fits, mostly '4' skills, and no offgrid boosters.
My thoughts exactly.
The 10 highsec agents could also be linked on a global cool down but maybe 4 hours.
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Trevor Eve
The Scope Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.08.15 08:37:00 -
[223] - Quote
Something for frigate specialists....
... oh but you have to be able to fly a battleship or similar to get them.
??
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Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2014.08.15 09:02:00 -
[224] - Quote
David Kir wrote:I would suggest making so that these NPCs have to be pointed.
They should be able to try to warp out when in difficulty (structure damage?).
Once the NPC warps off:
a) the mission is failed
b) the site collapses and re-spawns.
this would be too annoying, maybe some weird frigate mjd (no, you cant get it) that if you dont point make them blink away at 150km and repair damage.
Quote:The true difference between PVE and PVP is that human opponents have a survival instinct, while NPCs don't: make NPCs fear for their lives, for once.
the true difference between pve and pvp is that one has sentient being behind the controls, you wont be able to do that till our computer overlords finally gain control. |
Mark Prag
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.08.15 09:04:00 -
[225] - Quote
About time new content was being introduced (not just old content getting a facelift), and I'm all for taking part of the 'test bed' on this for future things in the development pipeline, just a few things that I felt compelled to get off my chest.
1.) For people concerned with the 'Level 4 Mission Pool' caveat for these 'burner' missions. Looking at this from a dev's perspective, putting in a whole other 'burner agent' category to the preexisting garden variety Mining, RnD, Security, and Distribution agents wouldn't be a very efficient way to introducing this 'test' run... maybe later, when it's heralded as a great thing to do, and players as a whole want it to become a permanent fixture, sure, maybe it'll be the way to go, with those agents having a cool-down of say, 2 hours or so. [seriously, this option would be best, imho]
2.) I can see why CCP wants to add these types of missions in the Level 4 pool, though, as there's a chance for acquiring a dead-space mod. Most Dead-space mods would net a capsuleer anywhere from 20m on up to 200m ISK [in this case, a frigate Dead-space mod] depending on market conditions and the type of mod.... and if one really thinks about it, doing these and nothing but would destroy the frigate Dead-Space Mod market, so putting it for a cool-down would be a smart move.
3.) Everything that I've read heretofore seems to miss this part... it's not like it's a storyline mission, of which you have to run 16 missions to get a crack at one storyline for standing etc etc...... from my understanding [albeit limited as it is at times] was that you have a chance of pulling a 'burner' mission, just like pulling the higher tier level fours [e.g Dread Pirate Scarlet, Angel Extravaganza, Blockade]
4.) Target burner ship warping away if it's not pointed? Okay, only if eWar affects it like a real player ship. That would be the 'bee's knees' as my grandad would put it. Then it'd get our Carebears introduced to a more realistic frame of mind for what Eve Online truly is.... PvP.
5.) If it turns out that this is going to be a permanent fixture and the Nordic Gods at CCP decide that they want to give Carebears and ISK Hungry mongroloids more content in the form of Cruiser Burners, awesome... however the conversations and comments thus far about passkeys and the like reminds me too closely of DED Complexes that were able to be farmed for the exact same rewards [depending on the threat level of the complex]
Sure, this is Eve, and yes, it WAS completely complex and involved, but the changes that have occurred in the past two years leads me to believe that both the Devs and the CSM don't or won't want to put needless complicated mechanics into the game. Cases in point. Scanning, agent quality/standing/type missioning overhaul, PLEX Death in High Sec, standardization of missile nomenclature, standardization of implant nomenclature [this one much needed], Simplification of Skills names and trees to get/use equipment faster... all these literally off the top of my head.
TLDR? All the above in two sentences; I welcome this new content and challenge with a hopeful mindset. I also hope that CCP doesn't screw the pooch, so to speak, by poorly implementing the change and souring the idea for both vets and newcomers alike.
Mark Prag |
Bedalla
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.08.15 09:26:00 -
[226] - Quote
Excellent idea. The man or the team having this idea should get a bonus.
I LOL a little at people rushing into battleship for L4 - now they have to start training for frigates and their T2 to run this missions (if they want to).
Also, my thought on this. Why not replace (in time) most of the L4 with this kind of missions, up to battleship level?
. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15647
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:30:00 -
[227] - Quote
Hyperion: Rise of the Logistics Frigates President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2691
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:58:00 -
[228] - Quote
Houm, look who's here... me.
No, not Ishtanchuk. I'm not going to run Level 4s yet, so I don't need her active. But I surely want to comment on these new missions.
The Good: New missions! New skilling possibilities (how are my frigate skills? Dunno.) Frigate missions! They're fun. Park that fat ass one-man WMD and fly something that actually *zooms* through space again. "PvP-esque" fits & tactics for new content, leave the old content alone. I suggested that ages ago. Roll as part of the usual Level 4 roll -no farming. Very nice move. If you aren't running Level 4s as a career why should you be rewarded with Burner missions?
The Bad: Only 5 missions with only 5 adversaries, which will be quickly fit and tactic optimized in a EVE Survival guide near you (does that site still exist, btw?).
The Don't Sell The Bear Skin Until It's Dead, or 1,000 ways CCP could FUBAR those missions: They may send hisec players to lowsec -NO GOD! NO GOD PLEASE NO! NO! NO! NOOOO! They roll up once in a blue moon or each 3 "storyline" missions -not enough frequency would make not worth to bother with them They may send hisec players to lowsec -NO GOD! NO GOD PLEASE NO! NO! NO! NOOOO! The payment is not worth losing time and ships for it -I'm not sure of how mcuh would be enough, but I expect soemthing better than the best-bountied Battleships They may send hisec players to lowsec -NO GOD! NO GOD PLEASE NO! NO! NO! NOOOO!
TL;DR: What we know is mostly fine, but don't make those missions send hisec pilots to lowsec, thank you. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1554
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Posted - 2014.08.15 10:01:00 -
[229] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:People will probably already workout the cookie-cutter setups for this missions before they go live. So for how long will this "new content" actually stay interesting to someone before it becomes the same boring grind like the rest of the missions?
The PvE content in this game is so bad that tweaking it with some small new additions like this is absolutely pointless in my opinion.
And its exactly like that in all games in history. You cannot avoid players from findign the weaknesses of the AI . "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2691
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:17:00 -
[230] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:People will probably already workout the cookie-cutter setups for this missions before they go live. So for how long will this "new content" actually stay interesting to someone before it becomes the same boring grind like the rest of the missions?
The PvE content in this game is so bad that tweaking it with some small new additions like this is absolutely pointless in my opinion. And its exactly like that in all games in history. You cannot avoid players from findign the weaknesses of the AI .
You cannot avoid player minmaxing their way of play, be it against the AI or against other players... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
61
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Posted - 2014.08.15 10:19:00 -
[231] - Quote
Why not make them available through Bounty Offices? PvE bounty hunter mission of some sort. Difficulty lvl 1-5. Some warp jammers needed, because prey may escape when low on HP. Instead of grinding Lvl 4 for "burner mission" we could choose our target. ISK and loot rewards only.
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11076
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Posted - 2014.08.15 10:21:00 -
[232] - Quote
Not going to ******* bother with these if I have to slog through that mind-numbing mission system, especially considering I have to train an alt if I want to do these regularly.
**** mission running. Not worth it for this. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Marc Durant
92
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Posted - 2014.08.15 10:36:00 -
[233] - Quote
The main idea is good but is then fcked by how you get them; grinding normal lvl 4s using non-frigates. Make it a completely separate thing so that people can CHOOSE to go the normal "bigger is better" route OR go the "quality over quantity" one. As it is right now they'll just get declined by normal missions runners and people who'd WANT to do them cba to wade through the **** that is normal lvl 4 missions. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
638
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Posted - 2014.08.15 10:48:00 -
[234] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: many level 4 mission runners have high frig, HAC and BS skills and will want to run these.
And if they don't there is nothing to stop them buffing them up for these |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
638
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Posted - 2014.08.15 11:00:00 -
[235] - Quote
another few points here:
First for those saying 'Only 5 missions?' I have the feeling this is kind of a trial to test the hunger for such things alongside testing the implementation of it. This is introducing a means of giving out anew type of mission (needed for *any* other new types of mission) with better AI implemented (can be extended to many other new missions) and is not stopping people running the old missions (to stop people exploding with incandescent fury...though that could be fun to watch).
Standings: I have never yet run a level IV mission, yet I have standings for them with several agents. Grinding missions is not the only way to increase standings, use researchers, use the storyline missions, use the epic arcs and cosmos missions. Hell you can even use all of the starter career agentsfor dull yet useful standings boosts.
Regarding peoplelearning how to beat the missions: This will happen and it is the nature of all computer games from waaaay back. Doesn't mean it's bad and with these missions if you make a mistake there is a much better chance of losing your ship (hopefully).
Bring them on I say :) And maybe start looking at chaining them into other missions for reandomly generated mission arcs. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
638
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Posted - 2014.08.15 11:02:00 -
[236] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:The main idea is good but is then fcked by how you get them; grinding normal lvl 4s using non-frigates. Make it a completely separate thing so that people can CHOOSE to go the normal "bigger is better" route OR go the "quality over quantity" one. As it is right now they'll just get declined by normal missions runners and people who'd WANT to do them cba to wade through the **** that is normal lvl 4 missions.
Just a thought, invite a corp member who specialises in frigs to run it and provide some logistics for them...just for something different to do |
Trevor Eve
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2014.08.15 11:26:00 -
[237] - Quote
Mark Prag wrote:
2.) I can see why CCP wants to add these types of missions in the Level 4 pool, though, as there's a chance for acquiring a dead-space mod. Most Dead-space mods would net a capsuleer anywhere from 20m on up to 200m ISK [in this case, a frigate Dead-space mod] depending on market conditions and the type of mod.... and if one really thinks about it, doing these and nothing but would destroy the frigate Dead-Space Mod market, so putting it for a cool-down would be a smart move.
Yup, adding them to the general level 4 is absolutely the only way they could limit farming.
No possible way they could have done it without forcing people to do battleship missions too.
*I apologise for any damage I may have done to any sarcasm meters* |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
283
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Posted - 2014.08.15 11:27:00 -
[238] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:I do L4s and I'd do frigate missions any day, (in fact I would rather do them if they earn isk). Demographic doesn't matter, people use BSes out of necessity, not out of "loving using BSes only"
exactly. i'd love to just jump in a frigate and do a few of these missions. although having to trudge through l4s to get them, means i won't. instead i'll skip them and keep trudging through l4s in my certainly not frigate mission ship.
You must be running missions in somewhat suboptimal way if you use only and only one BS for these. I already have a number of frigates for number of current L4 missions that are best done in these. You know, Recon 1 and Recon 2, the one for picking up cargo, Recon 3 is best done in nano cruiser usually.
Right tool for the job and all that.
Just taking another ship is much faster than refitting the ship you are flying.
Now I can understand the complaint about not being able to do only and only these. However if you want to do only these (and dont care all that much about isk/h) you can just grab a frigate and run around the region poking at agents until they give you one.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
283
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Posted - 2014.08.15 11:30:00 -
[239] - Quote
Trevor Eve wrote:Mark Prag wrote:
2.) I can see why CCP wants to add these types of missions in the Level 4 pool, though, as there's a chance for acquiring a dead-space mod. Most Dead-space mods would net a capsuleer anywhere from 20m on up to 200m ISK [in this case, a frigate Dead-space mod] depending on market conditions and the type of mod.... and if one really thinks about it, doing these and nothing but would destroy the frigate Dead-Space Mod market, so putting it for a cool-down would be a smart move.
Yup, adding them to the general level 4 is absolutely the only way they could limit farming. No possible way they could have done it without forcing people to do battleship missions too. *I apologise for any damage I may have done to any sarcasm meters*
You do not need to do the "battleship missions for these", hell you do not even need to own the BS to do these. Frigates are pretty damn fast after the warp speed changes so moving around until you get one of these is quite viable. Now if you want to drag whole supply train with you then that can be a bit trickier but nanoed up T3 booster can be still made to sort of not fall too far behind a frigate over the short distances.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15650
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:40:00 -
[240] - Quote
I'm just wondering what the connection is between these frigates and burning man (25 Aug)
would go with my roomies who attend every year, but school. I can celebrate burning man in EVE? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
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