| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cally
    |
Posted - 2006.07.05 23:53:00 -
[61]
Be careful EMFi.... youll be called an alt of mine too 
I expect this to have little effect on the confidence of investors and clients alike.
The EIB bashing tends to happen like clockwork every month and although I too believe its a sabotage attempt, its a pathetic one at that.
Slanderous posts, website hack, attempted insurance scams, baseless claims...
I wonder whats next......
Your right about one thing EMFi, I must have seriously upset someone to warrant these attacks, but who knows.
The biggest problem for the sceptics is the EIB has not comitted a crime, or a scam, or dealt in any business that could be described questionable, so these accusations will always pop up.
If there is something 'shady' the EIB has done I would like to know what it is so I can answer to the claim.
I assume any and all responsibility for the actions of the EIB as a whole.
There is nothing worse than being accused of something that firstly you have not done, and secondly there is no basis for.
Regardless of the effect this conspiracy theory presents, plans for our major expansion will go ahead as normal.
In regards to the auditing of the EIB, this information is going to be publically available before the launch of the IPO's as to allow the public to make their judgement.
But a select few (namely investors) will get all information pertaining to the EIB before the public do, so youll have the oportunity to go through my books EMFi... dont worry about that 
Financial Services for the Citizens of Eve
The EIB
|
Argenton Sayvers
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 00:15:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 06/07/2006 00:18:36
Heh currin - your scam is really an interesting part of social engineering, and has thought me a lesson i already forgot.
I have to admit that i actually fell for the fake "age" of your site. That was just ... i am a bit too hesitant to call you a really well-fed pig, because not everyone would get the reference ;)
But your scam exposure is a bit lacking. While i agree that Cally looks suspicious (as does every other businessman who works based on trust), i dont agree on your assessment of the situation. there is a huge jump from "probably" to "most certainly". The greatest scienctists of humanity so far have not produced many indisputable truths. Hell you can probably even twist "cogito ergo sum".
But i actually had Tornsoul as my prime candidate for a scam, because unlike Cally, s/he is famous and trusted and wellknown for almost 3 years.
Not every scam has to end up with a "lolz0r" flash. Sometimes scamming without getting caught is the main goal.
And unlike Cally, s/he actually "harmed" her investors with rather medicore results ... no offense here tornsoul, if you happen to read it ;)
like GPSx, EIB(i) allows the clever investor to ride the wave and make billions, no matter wether its a scam or not. For example, back when i (and almost everyone else) knew for 97% that GPSx was a scam, i could have sold my shares for 10x the amount of money i bought them for - 25m -> 250m, 250m - > 2,5b if i had been less risk-avert.
On another note: just asking around in modules trade channel will show you something that flawed writing style analysis wont [SIC] do: i wont spoil it, just ask around.
On another note: innocence proves nothing!
|
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 01:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Cally
Be careful EMFi.... youll be called an alt of mine too
I expect this to have little effect on the confidence of investors and clients alike.
The EIB bashing tends to happen like clockwork every month and although I too believe its a sabotage attempt, its a pathetic one at that.
Slanderous posts, website hack, attempted insurance scams, baseless claims...
I wonder whats next......
Your right about one thing EMFi, I must have seriously upset someone to warrant these attacks, but who knows.
The biggest problem for the sceptics is the EIB has not comitted a crime, or a scam, or dealt in any business that could be described questionable, so these accusations will always pop up.
If there is something 'shady' the EIB has done I would like to know what it is so I can answer to the claim.
I assume any and all responsibility for the actions of the EIB as a whole.
There is nothing worse than being accused of something that firstly you have not done, and secondly there is no basis for.
Regardless of the effect this conspiracy theory presents, plans for our major expansion will go ahead as normal.
In regards to the auditing of the EIB, this information is going to be publically available before the launch of the IPO's as to allow the public to make their judgement.
But a select few (namely investors) will get all information pertaining to the EIB before the public do, so youll have the oportunity to go through my books EMFi... dont worry about that
Maybe someone is selling your shares short, every month, like clockwork? 
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Kitty O'Shay
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 03:27:00 -
[64]
Best reason to hope EIB is a scam: ISK sink.
Worst reason: conspiracy theories.
--
Convo Me! |
Samiki
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 04:20:00 -
[65]
I was thinking just now...
I wonder what he is doing with it?
Currin, if your not going to spend any of that isk (which would be weird, but miserly), why not donate some to me? I just lost my Megathron to a pirate a few hours ago and I need to buy equipment. :)
|
Levin Cavil
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 07:29:00 -
[66]
Nice work man, very impressive.
If you ever want to double that 30B just send me an eve-mail and I will set you up :D
----------
<Kayosoni> I'm actually normal |
Gaius Sejanus
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 07:54:00 -
[67]
I have it on good authority that I am one of Cally's alts.
I'm also one of Hilmar's alts.
My main is Salvador Sarpati. I have been playing EVE since 1972.
|
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 09:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
I have it on good authority that I am one of Cally's alts.
I'm also one of Hilmar's alts.
My main is Salvador Sarpati. I have been playing EVE since 1972.
No, I'm Spartacus!
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Hanami Paati
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 11:45:00 -
[69]
im [sic] Cally and sos [sic] my wife.
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 13:00:00 -
[70]
im callycus!
 |
|
Sir Juri
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 13:21:00 -
[71]
I believe EIB is a scam now. Must be. Hmm, hope ISS aint a scam tho, but perhaps.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Dentara Rast
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 14:24:00 -
[72]
ROFLMAO!!!! 
EVERYTHING IS A SCAM!!!! RUN FOR DA HILLSS!!!!!!!
Satan's Plague Killboard |
Heikki
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 14:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dentara Rast
EVERYTHING IS A SCAM!!!! RUN FOR DA HILLSS!!!!!!!
That's your own strawman, only you are claiming that. Everything could be, in theory, scams. In practice, for some ops we just have more indications that they are scams.
For example, compare ISS, BMBE and EIB. For some we know which main chars operates them, why they need the capital, and how they produce the profits.
Haven't really followed EIB closely, so someone care to tell me: which known main chars for sure know that EIB does produce the profits it claims? That is, who have checked the corp journals and profit methods to be sure it is not some form of pyramid scam?
Before we have confidence on that, we need to trust both to Cally's honesty, and to idea of EIB operations being real and succesful.
-Lasse
who has invested quite a few hundreds millions, but not in EIB
|
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 14:51:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Dentara Rast
EVERYTHING IS A SCAM!!!! RUN FOR DA HILLSS!!!!!!!
That's your own strawman, only you are claiming that. Everything could be, in theory, scams. In practice, for some ops we just have more indications that they are scams.
For example, compare ISS, BMBE and EIB. For some we know which main chars operates them, why they need the capital, and how they produce the profits.
Haven't really followed EIB closely, so someone care to tell me: which known main chars for sure know that EIB does produce the profits it claims? That is, who have checked the corp journals and profit methods to be sure it is not some form of pyramid scam?
Before we have confidence on that, we need to trust both to Cally's honesty, and to idea of EIB operations being real and succesful.
-Lasse
who has invested quite a few hundreds millions, but not in EIB
If you are really suspicious, talk to EMFI Manager/Naphtalia. He's done a great deal of analysis (some in coordination with me) of EIBI and can give you a lot more proof than is obvious from public information.
EMFI is also planning an audit of EIBI, from what I've heard.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Ulle
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 16:02:00 -
[75]
EIB may be a scam or not. The next gate may be bubbled or not. The last recruit can be an infiltrator or not. The pyerite I bought today for 150M will be worth 200M or 100M next month. In all cases, it's about a decision I can or can't take: if I'm not up for the risks, I can do something else (which can be at loss too).
Seriously, aren't such decisions what make the game interesting ?
 |
Taurequis
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 16:30:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ulle
EIB may be a scam or not. The next gate may be bubbled or not. The last recruit can be an infiltrator or not. The pyerite I bought today for 150M will be worth 200M or 100M next month. In all cases, it's about a decision I can or can't take: if I'm not up for the risks, I can do something else (which can be at loss too).
Seriously, aren't such decisions what make the game interesting ?
Well said.
Taurequis
 |
Erfnam
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 19:31:00 -
[77]
I think the only thing that Currin has accomplished, besides parting people with their isk was to shed light on to the way banks actually work (they pay interest with other people's money). If you are not treating every venture in eve as an isk sink, then you are blinding yourself from common sense. I would personally like to interest those individuals to gamble...i mean invest in my casino.
People are funny in their reasoning (or lack there of) for shouting scam. As with many others who have mentioned in this thread, I treat EIB as if it were a high risk investment and thus only commit a fraction of my wallet.
Recruiting
Casino - Monitor Thread |
Astarrel Osteth
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 20:19:00 -
[78]
If EIBI is a pyramid, my theory as to why it has not collapsed yet is because Cally hasn't met his goal yet. My prediction is that the goal is to heist 1 Trillion isk...
Currin's evidence is circumstantial at best, but intriguing to say the least.
I'd also like to add that I find it strange that everyone is trusting EMFI 100% on any analysis that they do. Keep in mind that EMFI stands to loose a lot of money, and a lot more reputation, if EIBI ends up being a scam. They have a lot riding on EIBI, and it is in their best interest for it to not be seen in a poor light, especially since EMFI is vouching for EIBI.
There isn't any way to confirm or deny anything at this point - the people who invested trust Cally because they hope their money is ok, the people who haven't invested are rightly skeptical. Only the future will tell the fate of EIBI, but from the looks of it, many are already selling their stocks, much of the damage has been done already, scam or not.
However, it is possible that this will all blow over in the end, and EIBI will be back in the green again. If it's a scam then it's headed towards some unknown goal, if it isn't then it looks to make many people very happy with it's services.
Only time will tell, keep your fingers crossed if your involved in this, its the only thing you can do for lack of any real evidence either way. |
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.07.06 21:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Astarrel Osteth
I'd also like to add that I find it strange that everyone is trusting EMFI 100% on any analysis that they do. Keep in mind that EMFI stands to loose a lot of money, and a lot more reputation, if EIBI ends up being a scam. They have a lot riding on EIBI, and it is in their best interest for it to not be seen in a poor light, especially since EMFI is vouching for EIBI.
EMFI has about 12% of its assets currently in EIBI, and wants to limit it to 10-15% at most. He has the same worries as everyone else, and similar resources.
EMFI, however, would gain no benefit from attempting to fool the public into thinking EIBI was not a scam when EMFI knew it was. In fact, EMFI would lose out, because more people (including the corporations EMFI has invested in) would invest into EIBI, and thus when EIBI did finally run off with the money, EMFI would lose much more.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Cherybol
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 01:41:00 -
[80]
Im not saying i don't trust you EMFI and EIBI, but this is the exact reason why i sell my shares asap when theres profit to be made via egsex. But hell, after all these accusations. egsex could be you as well. :P
|
|
Cally
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 01:44:00 -
[81]
I would suggest reading This thread
He continues his rant here.
Financial Services for the Citizens of Eve
The EIB
|
EMFi Manager
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 05:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Astarrel Osteth
especially since EMFI is vouching for EIBI.
I am not officially vouching for EIBI, but I offered to do so after a full audit. I have always limited investment in EIBI, that is why not all my liquid cash is in a savings account and I limit my investment in teh bank or in corps that are 100% dependant on the bank. If I knew 110% that all my isk in EIBI was 110% safe I would deposit all liquid cash in EIBI for more dividends for my investors.
I have only one goal, and that is to gain maximum revenue for my investors that means taking risks, but also means limiting risks.
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Ann Mari
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 08:19:00 -
[83]
Yep... Unfortunately the only way to be sure it's not a scam will be an audit.
To see where the profits come from. I can't see anyone being able to shove half a trillion isk onto the market to buy stuff and sell it for a 20% profit. So unless a full audit is done, it simply looks like a pyramid scheme to me.
And an audit my a sister company is really useless.
btw... I agree with a poster above that says he has a gut feel the pyramid target is a trillion isk. When I did the calculations based on 3/4 of a trillion, I thought that a full trillion would have to be the ultimate target (that was probably moved a couple of times through it's own life).
But as I said, I look at EIB in awe and respect, because I can calmly step back and say: "It's a game".
///End
"There can be no justice, if rules are absolute"
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
|
Wizardicus
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 20:22:00 -
[84]
I do not think that any of Currin's arguements hold any water at all. He/she is a confidence trickster who couldn't make isk legitimately.
Social engineering? I think not. I just think you have made it that much harder for legitimate enterprises to raise capital to get the ball rolling.
Do you add anything to the Eve experience? I do not think you do. You have a huge ego, and your scam was an attempt to stroke that ego even more.
If you really were as great as you say you are, you would have kept quiet about it, and gone off with whatever few billions you managed to earn.
|
EMFi Manager
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 20:28:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Wizardicus
I do not think that any of Currin's arguments hold any water at all. He/she is a confidence trickster who couldn't make isk legitimately.
Social engineering? I think not. I just think you have made it that much harder for legitimate enterprises to raise capital to get the ball rolling.
Do you add anything to the Eve experience? I do not think you do. You have a huge ego, and your scam was an attempt to stroke that ego even more.
If you really were as great as you say you are, you would have kept quiet about it, and gone off with whatever few billions you managed to earn.
Any scam that succeeds adds to investor caution and will prevent any 15yearold with 2months of EVE to start an IPO by saying "hey I wanna do IPO-thingy, gimme 10bil or so and I will pay 10% I think divvy or something"
This should raise the quality of the IPO's and the Quality of the due diligence process.
Also the allegations raised against EIB and/or myself are fine because it gives us a chance to prove ourselves and points out any spots where we missed the ball on the transparency or trust side.
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Kenz Rider
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 22:17:00 -
[86]
With the coming EIB share offering and the spate of recent scams, investors should insist that the operations and finances of EIB be made more transparent. An operation this large will not unduly suffer from a loss of some secrecy. The world's largest companies file quarterly reports that manage to share enough information to make most investors confident without giving away trade secrets. EIB's advantages lie in access to cheap capital and scale not secrecy.
I volunteer the service of creating a professional investment memo for EIB. The actual details of the document and the process by which it is produced can be negotiated. Typically an investment memo will include a description of the company's products and services, operations, major customer and supplier relationships, an analysis of the markets served, competitors, a set of financial statements and a valuation.
My name will not be the stamp of approval, rather the document itself should stand on its own, by the information contained within, to help investors better understand how the company makes money and the inherent risks in the business. I would also suggest a third party stamp the document after an independent viewing of the corporate wallet.
Whether or not EIB decides to take me up on this offer, I would strongly suggest investors exert their influence to improve the corporate governance structure at the large institutions in EVE. Cally may well have amassed $70,000 worth of EVE wealth and is trying to raise another $14,000. A sum of $85,000 is not minimal and there should be some oversight.
Kenz Rider
|
EMFi Manager
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 22:24:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kenz Rider
I volunteer the service of creating a professional investment memo for EIB.
Is already in the making (see other thread on this subject) I have RL external DD Consultants helping me drafting the audit package. (which will set a new standard in eve corporate auditing and will be included and the standard for future 'grilling' processes of new IPOs)
Cally will get the honor of beta-testing this :)
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Krumpit
|
Posted - 2006.07.07 23:53:00 -
[88]
Hello. Devil's advocate here, so don't take any of this the wrong way.
If Currin's evidence is "cirumstantial at best", well, I'm afraid so is any evidence from forums.
At least ISS has outposts you can visit. Assets guaranteed by the game to genuinely exist.
Whoever brought up the cogito tangentially hit the nail on the head. Cogito ergo sum boils down to - you either believe it or you don't.
E.g. - DS claims to know that another real player is working for the bank, and to have some other additional evidence. To him it's good evidence, to me it's another claim by someone on the forums.
Sowing the seeds of doubt like this hurts the bank - it makes work for the investor to evaluate his investment - precisely what the investor doesn't want. If the investor wanted to spend time making their money grow, they could do it in game, without the risk.
The argument "if I wanted to scam I would have done it by now" is absurdity itself. Like scamming 500b is a good scam, but 1000b is not? Or does the marginal satisfaction of scamming more money somehow decrease above 500b?
Currin said he wanted to outdo the GHSC theft. He messed up, 30b was way short of the mark. You have to take account of a putative Eve Gross Domestic Product per head, and there are a lot more heads and a lot more ISK around now than there were when GHSC pulled their heist.
If you use ISK as your measure, you can only evaluate your scam's success relative to the amount of ISK in the economy. It has no meaning in absolute terms (sauf ebay).
In which case, the scammer must make a new standard, one that won't be diluted by inflation and increased player numbers, at least for a while. He needs an order of magnitude bigger than GHSC.
1 trillion ISK. That's just 1b each from 1,000 mugs. Don't tell me there isn't a market, how much ISK is lost every day on escrow scams and mistakes?
</end Devil's advocating>
|
Kenz Rider
|
Posted - 2006.07.08 02:39:00 -
[89]
I guess the only unsovable problem is that at any time Cally could walk away with all the assets if he so chose. An audit will certainly prove their is a business behind the investment, but the underlying problem still exists.
Anyway can't wait to see the memo.
|
Ricdic
|
Posted - 2006.07.08 08:47:00 -
[90]
Based on Currin's amazing analysis, I must also be an alt of Cally. I have between 2-5 billion invested in Cally's enterprises at any one time. Look at all of my market discussion posts, and every one of them will be in support of his projects. This must surely mean I am his alt correct? I also have 8 in-game friends who have close to 10 billion combined in the EIB and shares.
Yes this could always be a scam. No, there isnt a drop of evidence to support this claim. It is a wonder why people think everything could be a scam when large amounts of funds are in the hands of one person. I have personally had billions of corp members, or in-game partners (trading etc) when funds switch hands, mediation etc, and never ever even harbored the thought of scamming.
To some people, reputation is everything. Personally, if I were labelled a scammer, I would have zero reason left to play this game. Who cares if I have 500 billion isk. What enjoyment could I possibly get out of it?
If I really wanted, I could get rich insta-quick by buying and selling game-time cards. Become a multi billionaire (read 50 billion) by spending a few grand in RL. Sure, I can afford it, but what fun is left in Eve if everything is handed to you.
I look at these scammers, Currin included, and all feel the same to me. They all seem to think that ISK is an IWIN currency, when it is not. Having people flying by your side, great friends, people willing to do anything for you no matter what risk it is to themselves, knowing other players, and their family members by name, actual friendships that actually make Eve the game it is today. No amount of ISK can buy the trust and friendship that an honest reputation can buy.
And no, I am no alt of Cally, however I am an admirer of the services he provides, and have closely scoured every announcement / update he has given in relation to the corp.
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |