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Allaera
Avatar Dynasty RED.Legion
6
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Posted - 2011.11.22 14:21:00 -
[121] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:Don-¦t see the point of adding 2 hybrid ships.
Why not? It's not like it's unprecedented.......Brutix and Ferox
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Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:53:00 -
[122] - Quote
Allaera wrote:Klown Walk wrote:Don-¦t see the point of adding 2 hybrid ships. Why not? It's not like it's unprecedented.......Brutix and Ferox Hyperion and Rokh also came in together |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 19:16:00 -
[123] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:It may be a better ship now, but it isn't as exciting.
This.
Naga is gonna fill a nice gap that will make Caldari combined ops a challenge for opposing FCs
Bottom line is you can sit out at 120K and deal over 500 DPS. Or 620 at 93K Or 450 at 140K
Put a couple of them out there with a pair of rooks and a couple of cal navy caras and you can lay down HML fire and ECM over a hundred K in support of a fight on the gate( where you have your HAM Drakes and RocketBills to tackle and tank).
With a little imagination and the right friends this ship will be OK. Mr Naga wants to fly with Rooks and CNCs' and tear up enemy fleet support. This guy is gonna be an evil bastard sitting on a gate with proper support.
Bring in the torp Ravens, the Rokhs and the Logis once the fight is joined and decide the issue.Should be fun. |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 19:40:00 -
[124] - Quote
OT Smithers wrote:Havegun Willtravel wrote:As it stands now it's a very nice gun boat, but honestly I don't think that was what anyone wanted.
Every race has a few ships that have a launcher high or 2 but it truly is Caldari's main weapon system.
The simple question is this. How many Caldari pilots have torp's or cruise 5 trained vs large hybrid 5 ? Every other race got to play to their main weapon systems strengths except the Caldari.
As it stands I can see the Naga being more popular with Galente pilots than Caldari. Obviously. It's not even a Caldari ship. It's a second Gallente BC. The typical Gallente pilot, even assuming they lacked any Caldari ship command skills at all, could be flying this baby maxed out in a week. The typical Caldari pilot, having no hybrid skills or gunnery skills to speak of, is looking at five or six months to use this ship properly. It's ridiculous.
When you were a wee bitty Caldari Pilot, The first ship you got into worth a damn was the Merlin, which had rails. The next ship up was a Cormorant, which was a railgun platform. After that when you went cruiser, you saw the heavy cruiser was a hybrid platform. The first BC you could get was a Railboat. When you went BS you saw the Rokh staring at you at the end of the line, the culmination of Caldari weapons development.
So, the question is, WHY DIDN'T YOU TRAIN RAILS????
They have ALWAYS been a Caldari weapon, and noone elses, really. Learn how to fly something besides a Drake.... and I say that as a Caldari pilot who LOVES his Drakes.Just cause the lazy have pidgeonholed themselves is no reason to continue to neglect half the ships in the Cal Lineup.
Naga is a fine ship. Train heavy rails, and it's support skills, and lo and get hold, you will find you will then be able to fly most of the ships in the game within a month. |
Lord Calus
Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline.
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 19:57:00 -
[125] - Quote
Speaking as a Caldari pilot with no points yet into turret weaponry .... why would I not just spend < 60 days crosstraining into Mattar w/ projectile turrets and the OP Tornado?
Once again we get the bait and switch. Just take hybrids out, refund the SP so everyone who has not already trained projectiles can use them? Better yet, how many people have already trained projectiles and are using them on "hybrid" boats because hybrids are so sub par?
Caldari chars already have missile skills, and shield tanking skills ..... yep. Mattar it is. Nice try with the "diversity" CCP but I think I will just go in the direction of the broken weapon system. It isnt FOTM when it has been superior for over a year.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
Lord Calus wrote:Speaking as a Caldari pilot with no points yet into turret weaponry .... why would I not just spend < 60 days crosstraining into Mattar w/ projectile turrets and the OP Tornado?
Once again we get the bait and switch. Just take hybrids out, refund the SP so everyone who has not already trained projectiles can use them? Better yet, how many people have already trained projectiles and are using them on "hybrid" boats because hybrids are so sub par?
Caldari chars already have missile skills, and shield tanking skills ..... yep. Mattar it is. Nice try with the "diversity" CCP but I think I will just go in the direction of the broken weapon system. It isnt FOTM when it has been superior for over a year.
While I admit I was looking forward to the Naga as a missile platform, I have to also admit that it was severely underwhelming and would've been a total waste. As it is now, the Naga is the only Tier 3 BC I'm actually looking forward to.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
350
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Posted - 2011.11.22 22:23:00 -
[127] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:When you were a wee bitty Caldari Pilot, The first ship you got into worth a damn was the Merlin, which had rails. The next ship up was a Cormorant, which was a railgun platform. After that when you went cruiser, you saw the heavy cruiser was a hybrid platform. The first BC you could get was a Railboat. When you went BS you saw the Rokh staring at you at the end of the line, the culmination of Caldari weapons development.
So, the question is, WHY DIDN'T YOU TRAIN RAILS???? When I ws a Caldari pilot I noticed that even small frigates have double weapon setups which isn't exactly very newb friendly. So I found out a Kestrel is quite a perfect little missile ship. And requires way less skills so I could concentrate on better missile and support skills.
So I read the forums and reviews about ships. The performance of hybrid boats like the ugly Moa, Ferox and Rokh seemed to be rather underwhelming and Drakes, Tengus and Ravens were appreciated a lot more. Like a lot of other players I trained Amarr laser ships instead. Who in his/her right mind would tyrain hybrid boats unless you're Gallente? The question isn't WHY DIDN'T YOU TRAIN RAILS??, the question is WHY WERE RAILS SO BAD NO-ONE WOULD TRAIN THEM??
I agree that the Naga is more a Gallente boat than a Caldari boat. Many if not most Gallente pilots can already use T2 Large Hybrids, which takes over a month to train while Caldari Cruiser IV .. 4 days? |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 00:13:00 -
[128] - Quote
Lord Calus wrote:Speaking as a Caldari pilot with no points yet into turret weaponry .... why would I not just spend < 60 days crosstraining into Mattar w/ projectile turrets and the OP Tornado?
Once again we get the bait and switch. Just take hybrids out, refund the SP so everyone who has not already trained projectiles can use them? Better yet, how many people have already trained projectiles and are using them on "hybrid" boats because hybrids are so sub par?
Caldari chars already have missile skills, and shield tanking skills ..... yep. Mattar it is. Nice try with the "diversity" CCP but I think I will just go in the direction of the broken weapon system. It isnt FOTM when it has been superior for over a year.
I mix and match. your projectie rokh (soon naga if wanted) would be small pick up fleet setups. Fleet fit generally will be rails.
dependnig on application it doesn't even matter tbh. Shoot a pos...425 II rokh is fine. Its not arty alpha of doom. Like it mattera on large...the dps difference is not getting you and your 100 friends without momies support ref'ed or dead pos that much faster.
BS to BS pvp...rail are less dps but more range. don't land with the pests and kite. Rokh lived longer as only ship with a simialr optimal to use is.....a rokh. enemy pest on his optimals to kill your pests hits a rokh for less. lose sometning, gain something kind of thing. |
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2011.11.23 01:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
The Naga is dead to me, and I lost all excitement I had when playing with it on SiSi before the Torp removal.
Hello Tornado. |
Netsuj
Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 04:59:00 -
[130] - Quote
Woohoo so we get a new Caldari ship that shoots........guns.....All I hear is that "Oh look you can jam" Caldari have great missile skills! For what.....Another huge miss from CCP. We have A ship, the Drake, that does decently in PVP but even that is a single fit the only one with missiles. Give me a free respec to guns.
Excitement zero for new naga |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1228
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Posted - 2011.11.23 16:35:00 -
[131] - Quote
Netsuj wrote:Woohoo so we get a new Caldari ship that shoots........guns.....All I hear is that "Oh look you can jam" Caldari have great missile skills! For what.....Another huge miss from CCP. We have A ship, the Drake, that does decently in PVP but even that is a single fit the only one with missiles. Give me a free respec to guns.
Excitement zero for new naga
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Lili Lu
39
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:01:00 -
[132] - Quote
Oh wow, Christmas and I just got a new toy!
Whaaaaaaaa! I don't have the tools to put my toy together, and Jimmy's toy is better !!
Love this thread. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2011.11.23 17:26:00 -
[133] - Quote
Increase base speed , lower signature , there is absolutly no reason why it should be slower/bigger than the others.
Oh and give more pg/cpu. |
Adonlude
ANZAC ACADEMY
0
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Posted - 2011.11.23 18:09:00 -
[134] - Quote
I'll be getting a Naga. I went against the grain with my training. Im pure caldari with all t2 hybrids and only marginal missile skills. |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2011.11.23 18:12:00 -
[135] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Increase base speed , lower signature , there is absolutly no reason why it should be slower/bigger than the others.
Oh and give more pg/cpu.
What fit do you believe should fit but doesn't?
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Maroxus
Strategic Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2011.11.23 19:21:00 -
[136] - Quote
Before Naga:
Non Faction:
Number of Caldari Turret ships: 10 Number of Caldari Missile ships: 14 Number of Caldari ECM ships: 7 Number of Caldari scout ships with Missile bonus: 2
Number of Caldari Faction Missile ships: 5 Number of Caldari Faction Turret ships: 0
Ibis included in Turret line up, hey it has a bonus. The Heron/Buzzard would add another 2 to the 14 Missile line up. Falcon goes into Turret and Rook goes into Missile, both are in ECM. None of the T1 ECM ships have a weapon bonus. Both of the T2 battleships are Missile, WTF? The Phoenix and Leviathan adds another 2 to Missiles if you want to include capitals.
To me the Naga is a good addition to strengthen Caldari's hybrid line up after the Faction missile ships *glares at Navy scorp and osprey* While Minmatar whine about split weapons, Caldari has a split ship line up divided by Missiles, Hybrids, and ECM
Why are most new Caldari pilots grow into Missiles? I blame the Merlin and Missile's easy use in missions. New players may end up picking the kestrel since the Merlin is split with 2 turrets and 2 launcher slots. Thus they end up skipping the cormorant, getting into the caracal, and so on ... |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
355
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 20:35:00 -
[137] - Quote
Maroxus wrote:Why are most new Caldari pilots grow into Missiles? I blame the Merlin and Missile's easy use in missions. New players may end up picking the kestrel since the Merlin is split with 2 turrets and 2 launcher slots. Thus they end up skipping the cormorant, getting into the caracal, and so on ... Indeed, splits weapon systems is everything but newb friendly. My path was Kestrel --> Drake --> Tengu.
Add to that the horrible reputation of hybrid ships and the extreme ugliness of the Moa. |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.11.23 20:51:00 -
[138] - Quote
The ****** is good @ the moment. Think it's unfortunate missile users were not able to change things, but maybe next time (keep fighting!). The ship is in line with the Tornado. Minus damage selection. Fitting is not a serious issue and the ****** is very mobile, just like most tier 3 battle-cruisers.
Groups of these are in fact very deadly. I'm not sure how many have done fleet engagements of ****** (blasters) versus Tornado's (autocannons), but there is no clear winner. Often a up to target switching, logistics and mobility.
However, shield Oracal's are very hard to deal with. It would take alpha to engage them. Even with one shield extender and invulnerability field. The ship has more than enough hit-points and resistance to be repaired. Once you take Optimal into account. Damage application is insane! Capacitor is the only limit and maybe hit-points, but like I said. I saw no issue with hit-points, when logistics are on the field.
Shield blaster Talos. Has the range, to be useful in small engagements, but not on the same level as the ******, Oracal and Tornado.
These ships are designed for fleets and the only one that falls noticeable short is the Talos. |
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
9
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Posted - 2011.11.23 21:02:00 -
[139] - Quote
Oh you new boys and girls. My path was: Ibis, condor, merlin, cormorant, osprey, caracal, moa, ferox and then raven, all of it fefore the introduction of Tier 3 BS. When I learned about the coming of the Rokh, I trained T2 rails and blasters beforehand. And I was happy. Better completion times than using that fat raven, and a funnier ship to fly. I only walked away from it because it doesn't have a damage bonus. But even without the damage bonus, my friends who flew ravens at the time were impressed with how fast I could kill stuff in missions. Even without a damage bonus. It took me almost 6 months to be able to buy my first battleship, and I used it with cruise missile and 425 rails.
Man, I'm talking like and old man... I even forgot what was the point I was trying to make...
Well, the Naga is here to stay. Fly it or keep the drake. It's simple. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
360
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Posted - 2011.11.25 12:45:00 -
[140] - Quote
Katabrok First wrote:Well, the Naga is here to stay. Fly it or keep the drake. It's simple. Then Tornado and Oracle it is.
Oh well .... |
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Dielax
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.11.25 21:53:00 -
[141] - Quote
works for me, i got caldari ship/shield skills and hybrid turrets.
however.... I also have some missile skills and am most disapointed. |
Grimmash
Chaos Theory Exploration
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 22:18:00 -
[142] - Quote
I am disappointed to see the missiles go. Cladari = Missiles, so as others have said, this becomes a second Gallente hull. Boo. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
24
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Posted - 2011.11.25 23:06:00 -
[143] - Quote
Grimmash wrote:I am disappointed to see the missiles go. Cladari = Missiles.
Oh, really? I guess I must've been hallucinating then, because I swear there was a ship or two called, oh now what was it... Merlin, Harpy, Raptor, Cormorant, Moa, Eagle, Ferox, Vulture, Rokh.
Let's face facts here: hybrids are (were?) the problem. If they had been buffed beforehand, nobody would be complaining that the Naga is hybrid focused. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.11.26 06:11:00 -
[144] - Quote
Katabrok First wrote: Better completion times than using that fat raven
Guess for an OLD player your missile skills suck. |
Mapets
Combinatul Chimic ROMANIAN-LEGION
2
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Posted - 2011.11.26 18:55:00 -
[145] - Quote
disapointed ...
rail Naga is fail for the same reasons rokh is so rarely used on bs fleets and eagle on sniping hacs fleets/gangs 1-> caldari ships are slow by default and never dictate range in a fight as it starts !! 2-> railguns (all sizes) lack the tracking and dps to hammer the target even at the range they are meant for (the hibrid wep buff comming with the new patch is`nt fixing that) 3-> by the time u make the optimal bonus of the ship get u the advantage u`re alwready at low cap since u nead to use mwd to get that range and after few shots a msg is displayed saying "capacitor is empty" :))
for y`all that say caldari are better off with a new rail platform over a missile boat that "only means 90 days of training" mind u spare us the few mils sp and spend the 3 days training for amarr / gallente / minmatar cruser skill to lvl 3 (or 4 whatever) and fly one of the other 3 races bc witch all focus on guns ?! |
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
9
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Posted - 2011.11.26 23:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Katabrok First wrote: Better completion times than using that fat raven Guess for an OLD player your missile skills suck.
Well man, see for yourself...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Katabrok_First
Kata |
Foofad
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
16
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Posted - 2011.11.27 05:09:00 -
[147] - Quote
Blaster Naga may not be the most useful thing in the world but boy does it put out some big damage numbers. It's fun to fly.
But the tank sucks, the signature sucks, the speed is okay at best, but it's fun to fly. I'll probably lose a **** load of them. Did I mention the signature sucks? You're gonna get hit way more often in the Naga than any of the others.
The Oracle is better in every way except speed. It actually has a half decent tank with the usual 3 slot tank/trimark loadout, the range on scorch is so good the speed doesn't matter, and I think the cap is better too. Don't even get me started on the Tornado. The only thing it doesn't have going for it is the fact that Tornado is really hard to blend with the word "win" in a way that sounds neat. Winnado? Tornawin? Meh.
Incidentally the fit I've been using is:
[Naga, Naga fit]
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
20km Blaster optimal with Null and Optimal scripts keeps you out of web range, with nearly 800DPS. 13k Void range with range scripts does the same but with less wiggle room by virtue of the 10km falloff. For maximum damage against a locked down target swap to tracking speed and you can get in under battleship guns fairly well, though your sig bloom from shield rigs etc sucks in that regard. |
Tau Dades
Even End of the Universe
0
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Posted - 2011.11.27 08:50:00 -
[148] - Quote
I returned to EvE after an extended vacation. Only after returning did I find out they pre nerfed the naga. The only way CCP can make it up to me is to deliver to my hangar a CN DRAKE!!!!!!!!! |
Tub Chil
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
1
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Posted - 2011.11.27 14:43:00 -
[149] - Quote
I don't have EFT that includes latest hybrid changes, but I guess new naga can do ~ 400 DPS at maximum locking range. not too bad. at least better than torp lolboat.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
130
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Posted - 2011.11.27 16:42:00 -
[150] - Quote
Mapets wrote: 2-> railguns (all sizes) lack the tracking and dps to hammer the target even at the range they are meant for (the hibrid wep buff comming with the new patch is`nt fixing that!
The Naga's 768 DPS at 80 km, or 700 DPS at 100 km, suggests that DPS at least won't be the problem... |
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