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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.06.03 15:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sniser tell me where is suposed ships are balanced when you count the faction loot?
yes vs shields laser will get a bit more dps but i can use emp to reduce that impact. Also im caldari(later i began to train amarr for insta dmg from turrets because there werent any caldari bs with turrets) but when i use my raven i fit it with armor tank and ecm in mids, even scorpion do that or moa, carcal cant do it but it sucks for close pvp combat 0<20km anyways :P
nearly everyone is using armor tank because you need mids to use mdw/ab, scramble,web,ecm or heavy cap booster. this is why the most people in pvp use armor tank
This is where your arguement totally falls down. You produce numbers and graphs that support your view and make assumptions about anything else. When against shield tankers with a typical EM, Therm and invuln combo using your sig rad and traversal Lasers are more accurate after 11.5km and into the mid/high 20's.
Peak damage is about equal with AC's a few percent high BUT at 13km the damage is equal between 800mm T2 and Mega T2's so thats 7km to your T1 Disruptor limit of 20km.
So your arguement against shield tanking is that you armour tank your shield ships... congratulations for narrowing the parameters to again fit your view.
From your comment it seems as though you want a boost to something or a nerf? Ship bonus or starting stats? Nerf the fitting of the turrets?
Tempest fitting 6x 800mm t2 and 2x heavy nos has around 3000 PG left. Apocalypse fitting 8x Mega Pulse T2 has over 4000 PG left. If you use 2x NOS you have over 5000 PG left.
So you want a good tank, the apoc has an extra low and 1000 to 2000 more PG to play with, thats a large armour rep or large cap booster to start with. If fitting a PDU or RCU the difference between the two increases.
Apoc with PDU II can fit its 2nd armour rep, 1600mm plate(or a AB) and large cap booster plus the cap benifits it gives. A tempest requires a RCU II to fit a 2nd armour rep and cap booster but doesn't have any PG left for a AB or plate.
So PG isn't an issue, the Apoc can fit a great tank + biggest guns while the tempest can't fit its largest guns and good tank.
I have notaced CPU is a squeze on the apoc when fitting the biggest T2 guns, a large cap booster and 2x large armour reps. But wtf do you want? Huge damage, huge tank and huge cap? Fit a single rep and use that extra low for a CPU mod and fit your res/damage mods where other ships have to fit a RCU to fit there biggest guns.
Sacrifice something like every other ship has to, you have the option of using the largest AC's or even Hybrids to make tanking easier, other races have no option but to use there races guns due to cap and fitting issues. Don't complain that you AC's are better when you want to fit a big tank, tempest users have no option but to use lower class of guns if we want a dual rep tank (650mm T2 requires AWU 5 to fit for dual rep and 800mm T2 requires a fitting mod with single rep tank).
Basically there isn't a balance problem in my eyes.
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 15:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: LWMaverick Sniser... The calculations seems to be talking the same langauge as you do, but the problems is that it dosent work for real. Falloff, optimal, dps, cap usage and so on..
Try it, seriously.
Im glad that someone is trying to think outside the box for a change, but this time, its a "No go".
/Mav
im sorry if i do a lot mistakes writing, Im trying write as best as i can
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.06.03 16:03:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sniser
Originally by: LWMaverick Sniser... The calculations seems to be talking the same langauge as you do, but the problems is that it dosent work for real. Falloff, optimal, dps, cap usage and so on..
Try it, seriously.
Im glad that someone is trying to think outside the box for a change, but this time, its a "No go".
/Mav
im sorry if i do a lot mistakes writing, Im trying write as best as i can
Poverty |
TraxNet
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Posted - 2006.06.03 16:24:00 -
[64]
Just get a mega for short engagements. They will blow up that apoc setup in 30s without more armor, just try it in the test server. And I would recomend you using Dual Heavys, you will get more dps because u can fit 1 more gun with them.
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MrFu
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Posted - 2006.06.03 16:37:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Sniser
Originally by: MrFu Get a tempest,you noob :P
lol later i will travel to north with my uber apocpest bs :P
Bring it on
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.03 16:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is ok if you want to fit autocannons in your apoc.
qft
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 17:05:00 -
[67]
Originally by: TraxNet Just get a mega for short engagements. They will blow up that apoc setup in 30s without more armor, just try it in the test server. And I would recomend you using Dual Heavys, you will get more dps because u can fit 1 more gun with them.
30s? noob large repair are 12s cycle with 4 repair system skill :P
also speaking about dual heavy you should read the entire thread ....
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.03 17:36:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Godar Marak on 03/06/2006 17:37:00
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is ok if you want to fit autocannons in your apoc.
qft
This isnt the thread to forum *****, why dont you move to out of pod experience or general discussion?
'qft' isnt worth a post you semi-troll
forum warrios ftl
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.03 17:44:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sniser
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Aeaus I'd like to see you get your Apoc somewhat close into optimal quickly.
Because otherwise...
Dual Heavy Pulse = 26.25 km Optimal Dual 650mm = 24.5 km [100% Fall Off]
Lasers are much more versitile on this slow ship.
Yep... the apoc is a horrible AC platform because it has NO speed to engage with guns that need speed. Another useless thread.
you forgot EMP 50% range bonus doesnt affect nearly to the autocannon optimal but it hurt a lot in pulses , another useless flame reply from you
Do you even fly an APOC... or Do you even use Autocannos? Because they just don't mix very well. Believe me they didn't when there was no such thing as transversal and they don't now. The only Projectile worth a thought on an Apoc is 1400 IIs and that is only if you are in a fleet.
ACs need speed. Period. You could put 220 IIs on a prophecy but it would still suck more than 220 IIs on a cyclone. Same thing applies to BSs. Your numbers betray you.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.03 17:48:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Sniser
Originally by: MrFu Get a tempest,you noob :P
lol later i will travel to north with my uber apocpest bs :P
Feel free to come to Catch anytime and try that setup on me.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Feel free to come to Catch anytime and try that setup on me.
Why would anyone go to catch?
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Feel free to come to Catch anytime and try that setup on me.
Why would anyone go to catch?
Come and find out?
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Rip Marley
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:22:00 -
[73]
I am no expert here by anymeans, but that autolypse might have potential as a mission runner. I have some buddies in apocs who do level 4 missions in angel space where my corp is. And they hate angels due to the those high EM and Thermal resist. The AC's lack of cap usage and ability to choose damage types might have a place for a mission runner.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:36:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Rip Marley I am no expert here by anymeans, but that autolypse might have potential as a mission runner. I have some buddies in apocs who do level 4 missions in angel space where my corp is. And they hate angels due to the those high EM and Thermal resist. The AC's lack of cap usage and ability to choose damage types might have a place for a mission runner.
Ability to choose damage types? Clarify that statement abit please? I been using projectiles for a long, long time and have never carried more than one type of ammo in my cargo hold at a time. It's just not effecient because NPC fights can last a lot longer than PvP so you need conistancy. In pvp there is only 3 ammo types imo... EMP, Barrage and Hail.
Putting Phased Plasma and Fusion in your cargo hold is rediculous for missions. At that point you should just do EMP L and be done with it. Missions are range games. You will waste more ammo in falloff getting 50% less damage at the same range Dual Heavy Pulses will be 100% optimal. You can use Cruise/Siege Launchers to make up for any missing 3rd damage type AND you can afford a cap injector if you are having cap problems on your tank since you don't need cargo space for ammo.
Amarr are outstanding NPC hunters in 0.0. They are subpar mission runners and close range PvP boats. They make up for it with with their tanks, EM heavy damage that is rivaled only by a Mjolnir only Ravens and no ammo use.
ACs only enhance one aspect of this... the tank... which tbh isn't worth destroying your damage potential and flexability.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Sniser
Originally by: MrFu Get a tempest,you noob :P
lol later i will travel to north with my uber apocpest bs :P
Feel free to come to Catch anytime and try that setup on me.
lol he is a friend, this is why i told him that ;)
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:41:00 -
[76]
everyone knows the 75mm gatling railgun is the best turret for the apoc, noobs ------
FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:48:00 -
[77]
That's funny, I had a fight with a laserphoon on the test server. I'll ask the guy to post a thread "Here is why typhoon is better with mega pulses than with autocannons" for a laugh .
By the way, with the spreadsheet linked in my sig, you could save some hassle going through all these calculations.
NB.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.06.03 18:51:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sniser please check the graphs here (the first not, the second graphs ;)
Graphs autocannons vs pulses
Decided to use your graph numbers to have some more fun.
Full rack of 800mm T2's with Fusion vs full rack of Mega T2's with MF.
Used your graph numbers of: Sig: 380 (no ship has a sig of 380, geddon has 380 and mega 400) Traversal: 200 EM 79% Exp 58% Kin 61% Therm 66%
With Amarr BS 4 (so not even getting the max reduction to cap use or size) Both setups have large cap booster, dual rep tank. Mega pulse setup gets 2 cap modules and 2 passive resists + DMG control with a PDU II for everything to fit (more cap to!) 800 AC setup gets instead of the cap modules a AB and CPU and 3 active hardeners with a 1600mm plate replacing the PDU. Its very similar to Elves btw.
Both setups make me wince but since the OP hasn't stated what these setups are for besides "proving" AC's are better than lasers I have assummed he wants the biggest T2 guns and a sustainable dual rep tank.
On to the DPS courtesy of quickfit using your traversal, sig and resists on a mega: Mega Pulse
Damage per second on Shield : 349.35 (316.405 taking accuracy into account) Damage per second on Armor : 122.068 (112.574 taking accuracy into account) Damage per second on Structure : 420.676 (384.736 taking accuracy into account)
Average DPS : 296.953
Time to down the shield : 14 sec Time to down the armor : 43 sec Time to down the structure : 14 sec Time to destroy the ship : 54 sec (01 min 00 sec taking accuracy into account)
800 AC
Damage per second on Shield : 152.759 (126.816 taking accuracy into account) Damage per second on Armor : 146.796 (122.386 taking accuracy into account) Damage per second on Structure : 353.562 (294.6 taking accuracy into account) Average DPS : 212.095
Time to down the shield : 32 sec Time to down the armor : 36 sec Time to down the structure : 16 sec Time to destroy the ship : 01 min 16 sec (01 min 32 sec taking accuracy into account)
So yes lasers take longer to down that specific resistance layout by 20dps
I see a lot of active 3x hardener setups with no dmg control so EM could be lower i'm taking your word on what is "common" which you didn't take armour compensation into account but affects the lower resists more than the higher so it increases the difference between the EM/Therm and Exp/Kinetic helping the AC's in your arguement by a small percentage so not a problem.
Now obviously this isn't taking into account enemy plates or rep. But quickfit also doesn't take into account the size and slowness even with AB (or MWD) of the ship.
In future please use a introduction for what the topic is to do and what you are trying to show indetail rather than AC's are better than Lasers. When are they better? Against the specific stats you've put forward and general assumpsions. Show the stats after that instead of just throwing a load of numbers out and going "see i'm right!". A conclusion about WHY you think you are right would help to.
So in conclusion. Against 2x EANM + named damage control a 8x 800mm T2 Apoc does 20dps more than a 8x Mega Laser T2 Apoc. Although according to quickfit it is 10dps with accuracy taken into account. It also says a Mega Laser Apoc will kill the ship quicker.
Against a 3x Active Hardener tank the 800mm T2 Apoc has 30DPS LESS so it really depends on your targets setup which is what EVE should be about. Hence NO PROBLEM HERE, use AC's if you want but they arn't better than lasers, they are just better in certain situations so could be used as an alternative (against known minmatar heavy targets to avoid the extra 10% em armour resistance they have).
Any more generalisations and stats you'd like me to use for these theoretical number games which isn't thinking about in game mechanics or player skill ?
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:29:00 -
[79]
Mila can you show me a setup with 8 mega pulses + tank for the apoc? tank includes 2 Large reps + 1 heavy cap of course
if you cant your estimated doesnt matter since you used full 8 guns maths + tank
the good of AC is they dont waste any cap and you can chose dmg types.
The bad of mega pulses is they dont fit with heavy tank ^^ so you need dual heavy pulses
remember apoc is a tanker
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 19:35:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Naughty Boy That's funny, I had a fight with a laserphoon on the test server. I'll ask the guy to post a thread "Here is why typhoon is better with mega pulses than with autocannons" for a laugh .
By the way, with the spreadsheet linked in my sig, you could save some hassle going through all these calculations.
NB.
im going to use your spreadsheet
well mega pulses do more but you cant fit them with a heavy tank, apoc is a heavy tank bs. there is no powergrid for megas + tank , even using 2 nosfe(they waste less pg than megapulses)
also the 800AC t2 can get the gyro while you cant with apoc because there isnt enough cpu
this is the basic problem
if you check my fits you will see im using nosfe because there isnt enough pg/cpu for more turrets
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.06.03 20:07:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 03/06/2006 20:13:52 Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 03/06/2006 20:09:13
Originally by: Sniser Mila can you show me a setup with 8 mega pulses + tank for the apoc? tank includes 2 Large reps + 1 heavy cap of course
if you cant your estimated doesnt matter since you used full 8 guns maths + tank
the good of AC is they dont waste any cap and you can chose dmg types.
The bad of mega pulses is they dont fit with heavy tank ^^ so you need dual heavy pulses
remember apoc is a tanker
Why would I not be able to show you? Was simply a char limit on the post that I didn't.
AHHHH We finally get it from you, the Apoc is a tanker, so your priority is tanking. Your then trying to get the best DPS with whatever is left over.
The theoretical setup I used was
Apocalypse Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L]
Heavy Capacitor Booster I [4xCap Booster 800] Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Power Diagnostic System II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Capacitor Power Relay I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Internal Force Field Array I
5217 shield, 7.13/s, E/T/K/Ex=11/29/46/64 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=79/66/61/58 7560.0 cap, +43.34/s, -102.074/s 143.75 m/s 297.0 DPS
With AWU 5 you could use a 1600mm plate instead of the Dmg control, think it adds more effective HP than the resistances if you ignore the structure res.
Note this readout is against the EANM resists. Can't run reps 100% of the time but when you have 7.5k armour HP and all resists over 50% I wouldn't imagine you would need to run them 100% of the time but I don't fly this ship. Note the difference between natural cap recharge and usage is 60cap/second but you have 7500 cap to eat through.
For comparison a Tempest with a dual rep setup and using T2 650's has a similar difference between usage and recharge with about 20cap comming in natural recharge and 70ish going out which is 50cap lost for the cap booster to pick up.
There is enough PG and CPU to swap a Heavy Nos in there to counter other ships NOS, of course you lose less than 1/8th of the damage (you have 5med drones hopefully). If enemy has no NOS the change in setup to NOS should hold cap at 50%, named instead of T1 items such as the warp disruptor and webber will help, and the better the cap recharger.
With 7 guns and heavy nos Global Damage output Damage per second on Shield : 309.191 Damage per second on Armor : 110.495 Damage per second on Structure : 376.867
Average DPS : 265.008
You lose 1/10 damage for that NOS and makes the tank more sustainable.
I like how AC's have no bad points according to you, lets see. less room for 800 charges and EATs ammo like nothing else. Less ammo choice since the more different types you carry (emp, fusion and T2) means the sooner your likely to run out of one kind.
p.s. I like how you say the Apoc is a "tank" then give the 800mm setup a gyro, if its a tank fit more tanking and not a gyro.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.06.03 20:23:00 -
[82]
You're using a Barton Cap Recharger. Why?
Use an MWD.
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 20:23:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 03/06/2006 20:13:52 Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 03/06/2006 20:09:13 Why would I not be able to show you? Was simply a char limit on the post that I didn't.
AHHHH We finally get it from you, the Apoc is a tanker, so your priority is tanking. Your then trying to get the best DPS with whatever is left over.
The theoretical setup I used was
Apocalypse Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L]
Heavy Capacitor Booster I [4xCap Booster 800] Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Power Diagnostic System II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Capacitor Power Relay I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Internal Force Field Array I
5217 shield, 7.13/s, E/T/K/Ex=11/29/46/64 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=79/66/61/58 7560.0 cap, +43.34/s, -102.074/s 143.75 m/s 297.0 DPS
With AWU 5 you could use a 1600mm plate instead of the Dmg control, think it adds more effective HP than the resistances if you ignore the structure res.
Note this readout is against the EANM resists. Can't run reps 100% of the time but when you have 7.5k armour HP and all resists over 50% I wouldn't imagine you would need to run them 100% of the time but I don't fly this ship. Note the difference between natural cap recharge and usage is 60cap/second but you have 7500 cap to eat through.
For comparison a Tempest with a dual rep setup and using T2 650's has a similar difference between usage and recharge with about 20cap comming in natural recharge and 70ish going out which is 50cap lost for the cap booster to pick up.
There is enough PG and CPU to swap a Heavy Nos in there to counter other ships NOS, of course you lose less than 1/8th of the damage (you have 5med drones hopefully). If enemy has no NOS the change in setup to NOS should hold cap at 50%, named instead of T1 items such as the warp disruptor and webber will help, and the better the cap recharger.
With 7 guns and heavy nos Global Damage output Damage per second on Shield : 309.191 Damage per second on Armor : 110.495 Damage per second on Structure : 376.867
Average DPS : 265.008
You lose 1/10 damage for that NOS and makes the tank more sustainable.
I like how AC's have no bad points according to you, lets see. less room for 800 charges and EATs ammo like nothing else. Less ammo choice since the more different types you carry (emp, fusion and T2) means the sooner your likely to run out of one kind.
p.s. I like how you say the Apoc is a "tank" then give the 800mm setup a gyro, if its a tank fit more tanking and not a gyro.
your resists E/T/K/Ex=79/66/61/58 my resist E/T/K/Ex=69/75/71/69 difference E/T/K/Ex=-10/+9/+10/+11
while im losing 10% em i win around +10% resist to the other resist.
thanks to you i can show why apoc with AC is better, where you use the CPR to try maintain the turrets i can use a gyro and get more damage ^^
your massive waste from turrets will help to my 2 nosfe to bring you with 0 cap :)
and i put a gyro because add another EANM or dmg control give very little resists (around 5 more)
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.06.03 20:45:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow You're using a Barton Cap Recharger. Why?
Use an MWD.
Love the sarcasm, I used barton since I know its in game, use a Tech 2 if you can afford/have access to them.
Originally by: Sniser your resists E/T/K/Ex=79/66/61/58 my resist E/T/K/Ex=69/75/71/69 difference E/T/K/Ex=-10/+9/+10/+11
while im losing 10% em i win around +10% resist to the other resist.
thanks to you i can show why apoc with AC is better, where you use the CPR to try maintain the turrets i can use a gyro and get more damage ^^
your massive waste from turrets will help to my 2 nosfe to bring you with 0 cap :)
and i put a gyro because add another EANM or dmg control give very little resists (around 5 more)
Which 800mm setup is that? Since you didn't ask for the one I compared my mega pulse setup with.
Congratulations, you've shown you can tank better but have less DPS by using a lower fitting weapon... I think we all could work that one out.
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 20:59:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Sniser on 03/06/2006 21:00:18
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Congratulations, you've shown you can tank better but have less DPS by using a lower fitting weapon... I think we all could work that one out.
oh i didnt know 800mm were lower fitting weapon...
/sarcasm on hey minmatar your weapons are lower than amarr weapons.. yay /sarcasm off
i think you forgot i can use 8 turrets too
Damage per second on Structure : 390.162 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) and i still wasting less cap than you and tanking more ^^ also if we put resist on the table i can choose them and i even will do more damage on you
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.06.03 21:02:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Meridius
that projectile apoc thread is an abomination.
sums it up very nicley
Originally by: Tamora its not the skills that make the eve player... its the smack that back him up
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.06.03 21:10:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Love the sarcasm, I used barton since I know its in game, use a Tech 2 if you can afford/have access to them.
You're in an Apoc. A Closerange Apoc. Doing 136 m/s.
Use a ******* MWD.
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.06.03 21:17:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Love the sarcasm, I used barton since I know its in You're in an Apoc. A Closerange Apoc. Doing 136 m/s.
Use a ******* MWD.
great you want destroy the bonus apoc :)
get skills for range
change ammo for range
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.03 22:01:00 -
[89]
Apocalypse
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Turret Slot / Launcher Slot
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [4xCap Booster 800] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 100MN Afterburner II Faint Warp Prohibitor I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
5962 shield, 8.77/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=77/63/57/54 7500.0 cap, +26.52/s, -109.879/s 365.53571428571433 m/s 361.6 DPS
There "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.03 22:42:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Godar Marak HOLD ON STOP THE PRESS!!1
Did you just suggest one fit a mwd on an apoc?
With pulses it might not be the brightest idea, but with AC it's pretty much mandatory. A tempest can get away with an ab t2 and some lucky BM's, but an apoc... probably not.
NB.
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