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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Gosti Kahanid
GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC.
54
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Since Odyssey People complained about that scanning down Targets is now way to easy. This is a good move in the right direction without kompletly roll back the changes like the lootspew. It was possible pre Odyssey, so it will probably still be possible without this mods which made it way to easy. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3612
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
"Gaia created a great stone sickle and gathered together Kronus and his brothers to persuade them to castrate Uranus. Only Kronus was willing to do the deed, so Gaia gave him the sickle and placed him in ambush. When Uranus met with Gaia, Kronus attacked him with the sickle, castrating him and casting his ********* into the sea."
Yes, "Kronus" certainly seems like an apt description for the next release (at least from a wormhole perspective). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
90
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Jesus, the whining....
This is a good change. Scanning is too easy as it is a s at some point CCP needs to support the whole point of eve, which is conflict. It they don't make changes like this, which is really small, they risk the game becoming more and more watered down where everything is safe.
There are many ways to scan without cloaking. If you can't set up a safe and check scan for combat probes while scanning sites then you have no business scanning in the first place. Hell, I have warp stabs on my Helios anyway and most times I scan from the pos bubble anyway. This is not a big deal considering you can still scan cloaked if you need to anyway, just without mod bonus.
All of this completely ignores the fact that it utter screws over usage of these modules for w-space scanning.
Wormhole residents spend a sizeable part of their gametime scanning down new sigs and a key part of scouting new chains is doing so cloaked. Scanning at the POS or at a safespot isn't an option for us.
Reguardless of whatever meta you "think" this change will implement the only reality of it will be that people will just stop using the modules. Which at that point just freaking delete them. |
Burneddi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
102
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
why |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
415
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:Since Odyssey People complained about that scanning down Targets is now way to easy. This is a good move in the right direction without kompletly roll back the changes like the lootspew. It was possible pre Odyssey, so it will probably still be possible without this mods which made it way to easy. This may be. But until CCP comes out and says something like this, we from Wormhole space are going to assume that we have been overlooked yet again with a blanket change made for the benefit of Hisec/Nullsec that adversely affects the gameplay we have adapted to as a result of the addition of these modules to the game.
Can we and will we adapt if this change goes through? Absolutely. Should we try to confirm that CCP intended to nerf W-space scanning while similarly buffing High/Null scanning? Absolutely. Because if they didn't intend the nerf, we should let them know about it so they can re-think their approach.
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Una Eris
Boob Heads Black Legion.
0
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Posted - 2014.05.21 14:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
As a member of BL. , I approve of this change. Keep up the good work Fozzie |
Nightingale Actault
Divided Unity The Night Crew Alliance
29
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
The wormholer in me greatly disapproves of this change. When scanning is how you live, there is no justification for something that inhibits your playstyle so greatly. If you can't use these while cloaked they will see very little use from wormholers in the future. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
648
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster. |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1525
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:Since Odyssey People complained about that scanning down Targets is now way to easy. This is a good move in the right direction without kompletly roll back the changes like the lootspew. It was possible pre Odyssey, so it will probably still be possible without this mods which made it way to easy.
It's an unnecessary change, as there is no benefit to the guy scanning or the guy being scanned. The only people this really affect (negatively) are people living in wormhole space and people who scan in anything other than a scanning frigate.
Combat scanning a target is still difficult and and can only be considered "too easy" after someone has chosen the right ship, fitted scanning mods/rigs and installed virtue implants, which is the whole point of doing so.
Changes like this force people to use specialised ships instead of promoting diversity.
+1 |
Gosti Kahanid
GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC.
54
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:Since Odyssey People complained about that scanning down Targets is now way to easy. This is a good move in the right direction without kompletly roll back the changes like the lootspew. It was possible pre Odyssey, so it will probably still be possible without this mods which made it way to easy. This may be. But until CCP comes out and says something like this, we from Wormhole space are going to assume that we have been overlooked yet again with a blanket change made for the benefit of Hisec/Nullsec that adversely affects the gameplay we have adapted to as a result of the addition of these modules to the game. Can we and will we adapt if this change goes through? Absolutely. Should we try to confirm that CCP intended to nerf W-space scanning while similarly buffing High/Null scanning? Absolutely. Because if they didn't intend the nerf, we should let them know about it so they can re-think their approach.
I too live in WH-Space and I have to say that I never had Problems with scanning down the chains and hostile ships. I even overlooked these modules and only stated to using them three months ago. I have to admit, it made scanning a little bit more confortable, but it-¦s not like it is not possible to live without them. I did the last few years |
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Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.
Surely there must be a way, to do this without changing the effects this has on the PVE aspect of exploration and scanning?
- Maybe only have the modules needed to be activated for combat probes?
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2355
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
I support this change. Odyssey made scanning way to easy as it was then adding in extra modules to make scanning even easier was just too much. -á --á |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2355
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
Fonac wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster. Surely there must be a way, to do this without changing the effects this has on the PVE aspect of exploration and scanning? - Maybe only have the modules needed to be activated for combat probes? They are completely unnecessary for PVE scanning. -á --á |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
90
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.
W-space doesn't have this choice though. You basicly get one shot to try and combat scan someone in a sig. I'll explain how it works.
Say you find someone in a data site in a new hole. Hopefully its a system large enough you can find a corner off d-scan to launch combat probes, you then throw them way above the system so they won't be seen. Then its the arduous process of using d-scan to narrow down roughly the position and range of the targets and move the probes in. Once your confidant you have them hit scan. If things went well you get a result pull probes in and warp at zero.
There are lots of things that can go wrong, the end result is if you don't get a 100 percent warpable result the first time but the time a second scan finishes more then likely your targets will have warped off. |
Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Fonac wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster. Surely there must be a way, to do this without changing the effects this has on the PVE aspect of exploration and scanning? - Maybe only have the modules needed to be activated for combat probes? They are completely unnecessary for PVE scanning.
No they're not. I get that you have more time to do the actual scanning. But that does not make the modules unecessary. If you do alot of scanning(which i do) I want to do it as fast as possible, these modules help in that regard.
Time is money as they say..
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2766
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
It does not make all W-space scanning harder. You can still sit safely in your POS and scan. In other words, this change helps W-space defenders, in fact it helps any defender with a POS bubble. Is that what you want, CCP? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1135
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP reacts to oceans of tears about AFK cloaking by nerfing ATK cloaking. gf o7
The good news is that those of you who do your scanning under the security blanket of Local chat will be able to pick these modules up cheap, because I don't see a lot of wormhole dwellers hanging on to them.
Since we can't swap clones, I also foresee a lot of Virtue-implanted scanning alts in the future of wormhole space. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Nightingale Actault
Divided Unity The Night Crew Alliance
30
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:This change is not coming in Kronos, but we're looking at doing it in Crius (late July). The reason for this change is that combat scanning is too fast/easy right now and we want to rectify that. Since Odyssey we've been monitoring possible fallout from the scan changes, with combat scanning being one area we felt there was a risk of it becoming too powerful. Scanning while cloaked is very powerful right now and we want there to be more of a choice between staying cloaked, but be a little less efficient in scanning, or uncloaking and scanning faster.
Please, go live in a wormhole for 6 months before making this decision.
Without that experience, I'm not sure you realize just how much of an effect this will have on the daily life of a wormhole pilot. |
Jezza McWaffle
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
115
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP thank you for ignoring W-space again, as always, no surprise there. The only people to use these in W-space are going to be either new players in t1 frigs or when sitting behind a forcefield. C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/ |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
361
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Right, I always scan when uncloaked. There's nothing that could possibly go wrong.
Tell us, how are we supposed to dscan, keep an eye on the grid and scan at the same time?
Protip: You really can't.
Nerf combat scan strength or something, but leave those passive mods alone. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
649
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning. |
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Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning. What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes.
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Mizhir
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
61853
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:CCP reacts to oceans of tears about AFK cloaking by nerfing WH pvp. gf o7
Fixed for you. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
653
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
Meytal wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning. What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes.
Could be possible, as we're delaying making any changes here until Crius, we can take a look. We'll keep you updated once we dug into it a bit more. |
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Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
417
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Meytal wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning. What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes. Could be possible, as we're delaying making any changes here until Crius, we can take a look. We'll keep you updated once we dug into it a bit more. \o/ |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
153
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Meytal wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning. What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes. Edit 1: Ships could have a separate Core probe strength and Combat probe strength, if the modules directly affect the effective scan strength of the ship hulls. Edit 2: This could lead into additional ship bonuses: scanning bonus for PvE exploration vs scanning bonus for PvP hunting.
It may shock you, but some PVPers scan down sites instead of the ships inside. If you see, for example, wrecks or even a player ship itself on d-scan, you can just move the sliders a bit to look where the ship probably sits and then... you scan down the site the player is most likely in. Then you visit him.
So most PVPers could just evade this issue with special snowflake fits using core probes instead of combat probes. So the modules would still be too powerful in the eyes of CCP. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
36
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning.
I wonder how you came to that conclusion. Before you brought this up, I have never come across anyone who claimed that combat probing was to easy now.
Scanning was a pain before Odyssee, and I believe it's in a good place now. Making such an unbalanced change isn't fair to wormholers whose daily bread and butter happens to be scanning.
Most educated people in wh use combat probes for scanning signatures+ships, so removing the effect from combat probes only isn't a good solution either imho.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10418
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
One thing to note, this change was requested by quite a few wormhole players immediately after Odyssey and was one of the common requests from the wormhole members of CSM 8. They correctly argued that having these modules passive removes any choice or risk around them and skews the balance between midslots and lowslots for probing ships.
I've had this item on my list of CSM requested wormhole improvements for a while. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2356
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Meytal wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning. What about making Combat probes ignore these modules? That could accomplish your stated goal everywhere instead of just in wormhole space where cloaking is a must, while simultaneously not nerfing the Core probes. Could be possible, as we're delaying making any changes here until Crius, we can take a look. We'll keep you updated once we dug into it a bit more. Removing there effect from only combat probes does not address the risk vs reward ratio that is brought by them for PVE scanning though. Making them active does. -á --á |
Nightingale Actault
Divided Unity The Night Crew Alliance
31
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:I, and countless other players, managed to live in w-space long before these modules existed. So them being passive is not a do-or-die issue for living there. Will their usage drop? Almost certainly, in the short run at least, but this is a change we feel is necessary for the overall balance of scanning.
I give you that. I agree with some of the other possible alterations that others have proposed to lessen the impact.
I'll throw out my own as well, how about a reduction in scan time to help with the sheer amount of time required to scan wormhole chains if the signatures will be harder to pin. |
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