Ah, nice then. On a related matter, did you guys managed to find out what was wrong with the Forsaken Hubs? It est, they would spawn with no rats at all and sometimes having a GM try to force a respawn wouldn't work, requiring two to three consecutive downtimes to have it fixed.

Apparently this happened when the anomaly would be left half-finished before a downtime.

I talked to Bettik about the Forsaken Hubs and we're in agreement that they're "too killy" as they are. There's now a defect on these sites to have the initial spawn tuned down a bit; it won't be fixed in the initial Crucible release because we're too close to deployment now, but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.

Bettik reworked a bunch of sites to make them more robust; hopefully this will solve that problem, but if it doesn't, please bugreport it again after Crucible.

@CCP Greyscale when you guys decided to calculate the value of anomalies based on EHP:ISK did you take into account the fact that all high value NPC's have a much larger obit then the lower ones which results in quit a bit of DPS being lost and time being lost to approach these? Because after allot of testing right now on SISI I make less isk per hour then BEFORE your so called buff. Because my Fighter need more time to get to the targets even doh they have a higher EHP:ISK ratio I still make less. Due to the time it takes to take them out / get to them. Ofc this will not affect missile ships but this DOES affect all turret and drone ships quit a bit. So here's my question what are you gonna do about it? Because right now as I see it a Forsaken Hub yields 27,8M bounty total but takes 18 minutes to complete while before it was about 18M bounty and took 10 minutes to complete. So that leaves me with 1,8M isk per minute right now and after change its about 1,55M isk per minute which means that this is infact a nerf. What this change will do is open up more anomalies for others because right now you need 2 havens/forsaken hubs etc per person to be profitable after patch you will only need 1 per person. Still your intention to buff income has not been meet. A simple fix would be change the orbiting radius of the value NPC's from 39km down to 20-25km this would make quit a difference for all the people using short range weapons like blasters.

Huh. Interesting.

That affects the profitability with short range fits (and non-sentry drone fits).

However, have you considered changing your fits to more long range one and checking if that improves the ISK/h?

You do know that there is a reason why you do not fit Railguns for ratting same with Beams? While sentry's are a viable option for ratting with Machariel since you dont realy need to move with it and your guns do most of the damage anyways it is NOT an option for carriers because the main source of damage for carriers are their drones and 10 sentry's simply do not compare to 10 fighters in damage using sentry's with carriers would nerf you income even further. As for railguns there you have tracking issues for low orbiting NPC's as well as very low DPS so its not an option. Much the same apply's to beams and artys. Switching to long range will not give you more it infact will give you less.

The data I have in front of me suggest that - excluding PLEX - inflation has been relatively stable since mid 2008. We generally see increased volatility around expansions, but our CPI today is about the same as it was circa Q2 2008. We do need to do more work to balance out our ISK flows, but we also need people to be playing our game, and specifically we need people to be running anomalies if we want nullsec to be a healthy area of the game.

EVE Central Bank has been monitoring the money supply closely and is becoming increasingly
concerned about the rate of growth in the total money supply and the subsequent risk of inflation
increase (see next section). The bank has therefore proposed that in 2011 there should be a focus
on increasing ISK sinks in order to curb potential inflation.

Railguns aren't used for ratting because up until now, they weren't used for anything.

Beams are used for ratting.

Sentries are not viable for ratting with machariel because machariel is not a sentry ship.

Ratting with a sentry carrier really sucks..


Again, railguns. You are completely forgetting about the changes coming to them.


I apologize, but reading your posts you strike me as the kind of person who has a hard time figuring things out.


Buffs to the anomalies are good, the main issues have been acknowlodged and will get ironed out. For the rest, you just need to adapt.

Railguns aren't used for ratting because up until now, they weren't used for anything.

Beams are used for ratting.

Sentries are not viable for ratting with machariel because machariel is not a sentry ship.

Ratting with a sentry carrier really sucks..


Again, railguns. You are completely forgetting about the changes coming to them.


I apologize, but reading your posts you strike me as the kind of person who has a hard time figuring things out.


Buffs to the anomalies are good, the main issues have been acknowlodged and will get ironed out. For the rest, you just need to adapt.

Huh. Interesting.

Huh. Interesting.

May i add also that they will be adding T2 Tractor beams! Just saying....

However, I would like to know the difference (Isk:hr) between fitting short range and using sentry drones as apposed to fitting long range and using heavy/med/scout drones now that the new hybrid changes are coming. Depending on answer, sounds like the domi is the new it ship for anoms!

That honestly isn't how it works. If PVP for the sake of PVP was the most fun you could have, people would duke it out on the test servers even more than they do today. The real driver is meaningful PVP.

Yeah Beams are used for ratting but to my knowledge only for belt ratting doh I might be wrong about that. And Yeah sentry's are used on machariels because you can put in 4 of these and with the massive falloff machariels offer you do not need to move in anomalies at all.

Also in regards to the incoming railgun changes yeah I sure as hell took them into account and guess what damage wise they dont change all that much which means it also does not effect your ratting efficiency.

I already stated that ratting carrier with sentry's is not an option so your point is?...

My point was that i was agreeing with you on that specific point =)

The changes are good. Before them you could only hope to make >100m per hour with sanctums. Now you can make 100m per hour with sanctums, havens, forsaken hubs, forsaken rally points and forlon hubs. It is possible. The problem is that apparently you want to apply your old tactic to new content instead of adapting.

Like i said, the problem is you, not what is being changed. Adapt.

What Baki is talking about is something you only really get if you live in Angels space (which I do), as it's pretty much localized to that rat type. Which is why the arguments "fit arty / rails" and "it screws up everything else" keep going back and forth.

The extreme majority of Angels rats are extreme close range orbiters, I'm talking like inside 5km orbits for almost every single rat. They are also very fast rats. So pretty much you need to fit close in weapon systems like AC's in order to complete these with any type of real speed (as you will be relying on drone dps for anything that comes within the tracking speed of artillery).

The issue for him is that Angel's rats with VERY high bounties have 40-45km orbits and move relatively fast. This means by adding a whole lot of these we have an uneven distribution of rats in these anomalies that makes it more difficult to build a non-missile ship that can maintain a damage envelope that can compete with the ISK / Hr rewards in the anomalies that are currently on TQ.

Most ships will get more ISK per anomaly in most angel sites, but less ISK per hour than what can currently be achieved on TQ.

Some ships won't really notice a difference. I normally PVE in null in either a Cynabal (when ratting) or a Sleipnir (anoms), so I will probably benefit a bit (I fit for AC's, but I travel OMGWTFBBQ m/s in a Sleipnir so it doesn't matter much). Drake / Tengu users will reap in the ISK / Hr.

Pretty much, the type of rats being added nerf most turret ship ratters in Angels Space.

I think the real question is
bounties on rogue drones, YES NO WHEN

The isk/hour is all that matters.

If someone is able to get 90 mil an hour live but after this patch they get 70 mil/hour
Then another person who gets 30 mil an hour now gets 40 mil after patch.

Is the patch a buff or nerf?

Im going ot go with nerf, becuase the person who was earning 30 had the potential to earn 90 they just couldln't figure out how to do it.

The only thing that matters, imo, is maximum isk/hour for a EACH character in a sub capital ship. Honestly though, thanatos is the only carrier worth using for ratting, the others just dont have the firepower.

I agree, isk/hour is all that matters. . . but what ship and skills should they use? your tengu? a deadspace tengu? an officer tengu? a nyx? a titan?

By what scale should they measure isk/hour? yours?