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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
47
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Posted - 2014.05.27 03:05:00 -
[1261] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:Joe Boirele wrote:Erufen Rito wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Erufen Rito wrote:I don't think it's a problem whatsoever. I mean, the fastest launcher there is AFAIK are rocket launchers, which would cycle once per second with this method. Rate of fire nerfs rapid launchers. Period. If you can't comprehend why this is a bad idea on every level, then you don't understand the first thing about missile mechanics. Or, maybe, it actually doesn't. Maaaaybe, just MAAAAYBE you are fundamentally wrong. But what do I know, you have all the right badges of wisdom, or something. The faster your launchers fire, the faster you have to reload. The goal of any sane rapid launcher fit is to squeeze every bit of damage out of the clip of missiles you have in the launcher, because reloading with rapids in combat is a good way to end up on a lossmail. Except the problem is not the ROF, but the reload time.
I fail to see your point. Nothing will change the reload time, unless one of the devs decides that rapid launchers need change (they do), and decides to reduce reload time. And ROF certainty doesn't help reload time. Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right!
Proud Rattlesnake pilot. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1185
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Posted - 2014.05.27 03:24:00 -
[1262] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:Except the problem is not the ROF, but the reload time. So long as you have the long reload you want as much damage between reloads as possible. ROF bonuses give 0 more damage between reloads, hence why they have no real benefit to rapid launchers.
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3669
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Posted - 2014.05.27 04:38:00 -
[1263] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:Or, maybe, it actually doesn't. Maaaaybe, just MAAAAYBE you are fundamentally wrong. But what do I know, you have all the right badges of wisdom, or something. According to your 'wisdom', the Raven and Raven Navy Issue should deal the same dps. In fact, according to you - a ROF bonus is better than raw damage - so the Raven should probably perform better than the Raven Navy Issue. Let's look at the reality (T2 launchers, Faction ammo, 4x T2 BCU, V skills - no implants):
GÇó Raven ... 837 dps (paper), 491 dps (actual) GÇó Raven Navy Issue ... 837 dps (paper), 547 dps (actual) - 11.4% higher
Wait... wtf? What's going on here is that rapid launchers already have an insane ROF - but a 35-second reload. So by increasing the ROF you're actually bringing the sustained dps down. And with a higher ROF, the incidence of wasted volleys increases. Unlike turrets, overheating doesn't increase damage - it increases ROF - so overheating further exacerbates the problem even further.
This is why the best (current) missile ship is the Typhoon Fleet Issue (6 launchers @ 37.5% damage = 8.25 effective), followed by the Raven Navy Issue, the Scorpion Navy Issue, Raven and Typhoon. Feel free to work the numbers out for yourself, but given the choice of a ROF bonus or damage bonus - the answer is obvious.
Erufen Rito wrote:Except the problem is not the ROF, but the reload time. We begged and pleaded for months and finally got it reduced by 5 seconds with a small bump in ammunition capacity. Subsequent calls for some additional adjustments have gone unanswered... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3669
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Posted - 2014.05.27 04:59:00 -
[1264] - Quote
So can anyone offer any insight into the massive size of the Barghest? (1757m long axis) Just to put this in perspective...
GÇó Rokh is 1025m GÇó Vindicator is 1083m GÇó Typhoon is 1144m GÇó Obelisk freighter is 1162m GÇó Orca is 1451m GÇó Machariel is 1452m GÇó Nestor is 1467m GÇó Maelstrom is 1484m GÇó Hyperion is 1509m GÇó Apocalypse is 1550m GÇó Fenir is 1926m GÇó Nidhoggur carrier is 2188m
Well, it comes in black. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
228
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Posted - 2014.05.27 05:13:00 -
[1265] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So can anyone offer any insight into the massive size of the Barghest? (1757m long axis) Just to put this in perspective...
GÇó Rokh is 1025m GÇó Vindicator is 1083m GÇó Typhoon is 1144m GÇó Obelisk freighter is 1162m GÇó Orca is 1451m GÇó Machariel is 1452m GÇó Nestor is 1467m GÇó Maelstrom is 1484m GÇó Hyperion is 1509m GÇó Apocalypse is 1550m GÇó Fenir is 1926m GÇó Nidhoggur carrier is 2188m
Well, it comes in black.
Nobody cares!
I on the other hand care a lot. My missiles and torpedos would be all perfect as they are if some, who's name I won't tell, will make that nonsence he created go away.
That part is very easy, mark the lines in the code and press 'DEL'. All missile problems solved.
The Barghest is now zee best missle battleship in EVE.
Zee End signature |
Phrike Horizon
The Alpha Project
0
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Posted - 2014.05.27 05:21:00 -
[1266] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So can anyone offer any insight into the massive size of the Barghest? (1757m long axis) Just to put this in perspective...
GÇó Rokh is 1025m GÇó Vindicator is 1083m GÇó Typhoon is 1144m GÇó Obelisk freighter is 1162m GÇó Orca is 1451m GÇó Machariel is 1452m GÇó Nestor is 1467m GÇó Maelstrom is 1484m GÇó Hyperion is 1509m GÇó Apocalypse is 1550m GÇó Fenir is 1926m GÇó Nidhoggur carrier is 2188m
Well, it comes in black.
I personally am anxious to see how big it is when it finally hits with Kronos though it may look incredibly goofy but didn't you mention it comes in black? |
Malcolm Malicious
Malware Detected Brave Collective
65
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Posted - 2014.05.27 06:36:00 -
[1267] - Quote
They should lower the reload on rapid launchers to 20 seconds. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
216
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Posted - 2014.05.27 08:57:00 -
[1268] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Sadly, i see these ships as one more thing to collect dust in a hanger. They're going to be too expensive to be viable for PvP, so why give them a PvP bonus? People already use other pirate vessels for PvP, and should the drops work as intended these should likely fall into the same price range. Granted there will be the usual initial inflated prices, but after that, since the other pirate vessels see PvP use, why wouldn't these?
Because it's as "good" as Nestor? The other recent "pirate" BS hull. Other pirate BS are used because they are actually pretty good at something. When some platform is actually good for something then price does not matter all that much anymore as there are people who can afford the best tool in the toolbox. If it's just kind of "meh" then only some misinformed people use it, especially if it is not some reasonable "bang for buck" compromise.
Even today there are some pirate BS that are used more in PvE than in PvP (Nightmare, for example) - it remains to be seen what the upcoming re-balance pass is doing in that regard. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers
90
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Posted - 2014.05.27 10:11:00 -
[1269] - Quote
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2161
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Posted - 2014.05.27 11:13:00 -
[1270] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.
Dude, train your navigation skills O.o
The Orthus goes 2300 m/s BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3334
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Posted - 2014.05.27 11:48:00 -
[1271] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*. Dude, train your navigation skills O.o The Orthus goes 2300 m/s
Then there's the Stabber fleet issue.
2160m/s with a 10mn MWD.
Fast, but not crazy fast.
(crazy would be filling it with overdrive injectors, to go over 3km/s) Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
185
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:09:00 -
[1272] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.
well it's a missile kiter, so fast and meh tank. sounds fine to me. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15662
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:16:00 -
[1273] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.
Almost as if it's supposed to be in some kind of fast kiting role or something? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
141
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:19:00 -
[1274] - Quote
Out of curiosity, I just did some quick calculus at what would increase the Barghest (theorical) damage: adding an 8th launcher or increasing the 5% damage bonus to 7.5%.
- Adding an 8th launcher: would increase damage by 14.3% refering to what it does now. - Increasing damage bonus to 7.5%: would increase damage by 12.5% refering to what it does now (all skills at 5).
I'm posting this here in case it's useful for discussion. Many people claim a damage application bonus. The other alternative would be to increase its damage output in one of these ways. I have no idea which one would be better for the balance, but adding an 8th launcher would be better than giving it a 7.5% damage bonus, as it not only allows it for slighty more damage but also makes its hardpoints to be symmetrical on the model. I insist, I don't know if that would be too much damage! But it being a Pirate Battleship seems like it could use some more damage. |
King Rothgar
Aegis Interplanetary .Inc Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
407
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:29:00 -
[1275] - Quote
Was just toying with the frigate and cruiser on SISI, I likey! They are a skirmisher's dream, solid dps (nothing fantastic, but good), on the faster side of things and long ranged. Slap a RF point on it, toss in off grid links and I see absolutely no reason to come closer than 50km... with the frigate. Thing is a nano-slicer on crack.
The cruiser is equally impressive. Some previous posters said the bonuses are uninteresting and yes, taken on an individual bonus by bonus level there isn't anything new. But what we haven't seen before is a proper kiting missile boat. We have missile ships yes, and some can kinda kite but they all come with heavy duty tanking bonuses at the expense of speed/agility.
This is the first time we have a true kiting ship with missiles. It's also interesting in that it's the first ship with a point range bonus that also gets a range bonus to its primary weapons. All the others are close range brawlers or straight tacklers with minimal armament. So it is something truly new and does not overlap with any other ship I can think of.
I have no comment on the BS. BS's in general aren't exactly something I think of when I think "skirmish." Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill A Nest of Vipers
90
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Posted - 2014.05.27 13:17:00 -
[1276] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*. Dude, train your navigation skills O.o The Orthus goes 2300 m/s
LoL ok I will. I'm used to armour tanked T3 that go 1200 max . Still a nano BC will go more than 1500 so I guess it's ok.
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elitatwo
Congregatio
228
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Posted - 2014.05.27 15:22:00 -
[1277] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:Out of curiosity, I just did some quick calculus at what would increase the Barghest (theorical) damage: adding an 8th launcher or increasing the 5% damage bonus to 7.5%. - Adding an 8th launcher: would increase damage by 14.3% refering to what it does now. - Increasing damage bonus to 7.5%: would increase damage by 12.5% refering to what it does now (all skills at 5). I'm posting this here in case it's useful for discussion. Many people claim a damage application bonus. The other alternative would be to increase its damage output in one of these ways. I have no idea which one would be better for the balance, but adding an 8th launcher would be better than giving it a 7.5% damage bonus, as it not only allows it for slighty more damage but also makes its hardpoints to be symmetrical on the model. I insist, I don't know if that would be too much damage! But it being a Pirate Battleship seems like it could use some more damage. EDIT: just flied around a bit with the frigate and cruiser. I have to congratulate the art team here! They're very beautiful ships, and I loved the fact they fold themselves like origami when warping. Nice!
To satisfy your curiousity, the damage on the Barghest is fine the way it is. What is not fine is the way missiles do not damage to other flying objects in space.
And here it is again, the missile tracking nonsence needs to go and the missile damage goes back to where is was. I know scary thoughts yada yada.
At least someone from the CSM should recon that that has actual merrit. And I really know what I am talking about.
Listen folks, missiles are artilley turrets that do damage at the end of the launcher cycle. But do not fear, the end is not near because artillery turrets has more damage than any missile volley and if you are fast enough, you can outrun them.
Things are not necessarly overpowered because pilots are bad at flying ships. signature |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3672
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Posted - 2014.05.27 17:29:00 -
[1278] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:What is not fine is the way missiles do not damage to other flying objects in space. The formula is fine - what we need is a 25-50% bump in explosion velocity across all missiles so that they do close to 100% damage to stationary or slow-moving targets. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
228
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Posted - 2014.05.27 18:01:00 -
[1279] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:elitatwo wrote:What is not fine is the way missiles do not damage to other flying objects in space. The formula is fine - what we need is a 25-50% bump in explosion velocity across all missiles so that they do close to 100% damage to stationary or slow-moving targets.
This wasn't a typo
And why not ditch all of that explosion nonsence all together?
Imagine torpedos able to hurt a destroyer at 65km. Not that a destroyer vessel should ever get on the same grid as a battleship but things happen.
You know that I am right and that I know what I am saying. signature |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1186
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 20:18:00 -
[1280] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Sadly, i see these ships as one more thing to collect dust in a hanger. They're going to be too expensive to be viable for PvP, so why give them a PvP bonus? People already use other pirate vessels for PvP, and should the drops work as intended these should likely fall into the same price range. Granted there will be the usual initial inflated prices, but after that, since the other pirate vessels see PvP use, why wouldn't these? Because it's as "good" as Nestor? The other recent "pirate" BS hull. Other pirate BS are used because they are actually pretty good at something. When some platform is actually good for something then price does not matter all that much anymore as there are people who can afford the best tool in the toolbox. If it's just kind of "meh" then only some misinformed people use it, especially if it is not some reasonable "bang for buck" compromise. Even today there are some pirate BS that are used more in PvE than in PvP (Nightmare, for example) - it remains to be seen what the upcoming re-balance pass is doing in that regard. She wasn't speaking exclusively to the BS so while that encompasses 1 of the ships, it does nothing to address the other 2.
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Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises The Marmite Collective
89
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:27:00 -
[1281] - Quote
Again... Seeing only complaint about Barghest. Ran a lot of desings on the 3.
With Mordu's getting the Point range bonus along with being "Missile Specialists", they seemed destined as kiting ships.
Garmur- a pain to fit, went with light missiles for Kiting... Terrible damage output, but fast... Faction interceptor w/o interceptor benefits... Meh, will pass on this ship.
Orthrus - best of the 3. Good speed, DPS... It's not a Tengu, but after the initial Hype costs go down... Should be much cheaper than one.
Barghest - did many versions of this ship except Cruise missiles... I never use them. Shield tanking seems to yield crappy fits, but Armor tanking with Torps a Heavy Neut, MWD, Disruptor, at least 1 TP and various ewar to your liking and heavy Cap Booster went as my favorite version of this ship. MWD still kept me ahead of most other BS and DPS was decently applied. The Armor amount from just 1 1600 plate was shocking and may be a glitch as it showed me 34k raw Armor HP yielding 114k EHP! I'm not saying I'll run out and get this thing... But, if the increased the missile Damage Bonus up more... It would be worth thinking about for certain senarios.
Overall Mordu's ships look cool, but at this point, for me... Only act as basic T1 ships and not the Kick-@$$ heights of other Pirate Factions. Costs won't be worth the Hulls as the sit now.
My .02 isk. eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2162
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:46:00 -
[1282] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:Again... Seeing only complaint about Barghest. Ran a lot of desings on the 3.
With Mordu's getting the Point range bonus along with being "Missile Specialists", they seemed destined as kiting ships.
Garmur- a pain to fit, went with light missiles for Kiting... Terrible damage output, but fast... Faction interceptor w/o interceptor benefits... Meh, will pass on this ship.
Orthrus - best of the 3. Good speed, DPS... It's not a Tengu, but after the initial Hype costs go down... Should be much cheaper than one.
Barghest - did many versions of this ship except Cruise missiles... I never use them. Shield tanking seems to yield crappy fits, but Armor tanking with Torps a Heavy Neut, MWD, Disruptor, at least 1 TP and various ewar to your liking and heavy Cap Booster went as my favorite version of this ship. MWD still kept me ahead of most other BS and DPS was decently applied. The Armor amount from just 1 1600 plate was shocking and may be a glitch as it showed me 34k raw Armor HP yielding 114k EHP! I'm not saying I'll run out and get this thing... But, if the increased the missile Damage Bonus up more... It would be worth thinking about for certain senarios.
Overall Mordu's ships look cool, but at this point, for me... Only act as basic T1 ships and not the Kick-@$$ heights of other Pirate Factions. Costs won't be worth the Hulls as the sit now.
My .02 isk.
Garmur outdps's pretty much all other lml boats and its easier to fit than pretty much all of them as well, stop being bad.
Orthus - no a tengu can't orbit you at 40 and keep you pointed.. or scram you at 20.
Barghest.. Surely you don't need scram range for station games.
In fact you seem to be discounting the scram/point part entirely.. which is pretty much the most important part of the ship for actual pvp. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
162
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Posted - 2014.05.27 21:02:00 -
[1283] - Quote
We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise. |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
234
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Posted - 2014.05.27 22:58:00 -
[1284] - Quote
Yeah rise isn't big on comunity interaction or acting of feedback. People told him the Nestor was a bad design and he refused to give it worthwhile bonuses.
That said, the mordu's ships are okay but i feel the need an extra low slot to make them viable armour ships. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3674
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Posted - 2014.05.28 02:20:00 -
[1285] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise. Who? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Malcolm Malicious
Malware Detected Brave Collective
65
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:05:00 -
[1286] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise. Who?
What's a CCP Rise |
elitatwo
Congregatio
229
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:21:00 -
[1287] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?
It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*. Almost as if it's supposed to be in some kind of fast kiting role or something? And still a couple of hundred m/s slower than the comparable Cynabal.
My ham Orthus makes fun of every Cynabel that dares to look at me funny... signature |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
248
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Posted - 2014.05.28 09:48:00 -
[1288] - Quote
The Orthrus has a warp speed of 27 AU/s?? That's awesome, with a cloaky alt to get a warp-in you won't even see it on d-scan before it lands.
So I guess the deal here is to get a hold of the Garmur as quickly as possible then get as much use as possible out of it before the nerfbat comes down on it so hard it gets demoted to Punisher/Cruor tier? |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
799
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Posted - 2014.05.28 10:02:00 -
[1289] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise. Who? Be fair, we probably broke him.
It must be a special Icelandic version of hell to be forced to deal with EvE forum feedback. To be forced to deal with it every day would make anyone run away screaming. I visualise his desk a little like the laboratory/treatment room in clockwork orange, where he is strapped down with his eyes held open.
I just wish there was some form we could put in comments and suggestions, that would be read, without having to " mix" with certain EOnforum "residents". Some are fine, others make the bonus room seem like a fun activity for the visitor in comparison.
How about it, just for features and ideas, a form with 2 checkboxes, like, dislike. And a comment box. Everyone could see it, but you could only post your opinion once per thread?
And let's stop breaking Dev's There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
127
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Posted - 2014.05.28 11:35:00 -
[1290] - Quote
Malcolm Malicious wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise. Who? What's a CCP Rise
I think it is a type of poker hand. |
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