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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:04:00 -
[31]
So if you pit 1 Rapier and 1 Lachesis with increased scram bonus against any close range set up BS (apart from raven) you have = ?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:14:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 26/05/2006 16:16:55 Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 26/05/2006 16:15:05
Originally by: Crellion So if you pit 1 Rapier and 1 Lachesis with increased scram bonus against any close range set up BS (apart from raven) you have = ?
Well, probably a stalemate
The bs is stuck, but can probably tank the recon damage output for a good long while. With t2 guns, t2 drones and good skills, the recons might just pull ahead, but it would be slow. And the bs will have drones of its own, of course, which would attack unless the Lachesis got the damps in before bs launched drones.
Would be an interesting fight, actually.
In practice this would be decided on whose cavalry arrives on the scene first to help, of course.
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:17:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 26/05/2006 16:20:47
Originally by: Shinnen
For example, gallente are supposed to be blasterboats, the lachesis is blatantly a long range platform.
If Gallente are "meant to be blasterboats", then WHY THE **** is there a "Gallente Navy 425mm Railgun"?
(Edited for flame)
Originally by: Deja Thoris
If gallente are "meant to be blasterboats" why do they get bonuses for railguns too?
QFT.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:29:00 -
[34]
The Arazu and the Lachesis are both WTFPWN mobiles. Infact, I'd go as far as saying that the Lachesis is by far the most useful recon ship within a fleet battle. Not only can you disable up to 5 ships if you get very lucky, but people think you are useless so they don't even target you! Can't get much better than that! :p
Seriously though, I love my cheap, cheap Lachesis' -----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
franny
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Shinnen Generally you wont really see someone use a bellicose in combat nor a celestis.
no love :( celestis and Arazu just now tried taking on a PTF Mega(the friend of my enemy is my enemy), I had +3 wcs, the celestis had +1, and he had more stabs than we had str :( but he ran ----------------------------------------- TCC Diplomatic core + combat pilot talk or shoot, makes no difference to me :) |
Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:34:00 -
[36]
I had to participate. After all i just bought my first Lachesis for testing purposes.
Gallente recon lachesis It seems it does lack in the bonus department. I would give it bonus to sensor damp range as well to the effectiveness of damps along the bonus to warpdisrupter range wich btw. needs to get boosted to 15 or 20% per lvl. (btw. the textures are horrid like and so is the model it self .. ask Asgair to do a new consept for that ship hull. -props to asgair. thanks we value your style.)
Minnie Huggin If you plan to keep Minnie recons as they are at least give them bit more firepower.
keep up the good discussion in this thread
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.05.26 17:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Bazman The Arazu and the Lachesis are both WTFPWN mobiles. Infact, I'd go as far as saying that the Lachesis is by far the most useful recon ship within a fleet battle. Not only can you disable up to 5 ships if you get very lucky, but people think you are useless so they don't even target you! Can't get much better than that! :p
Seriously though, I love my cheap, cheap Lachesis'
This makes me think.. have you ever really used damps? It takes 3x t2 damps fitted on arazu with signal suppresion(damp specialization:P to put 2x t2 sb tempest to 28km. And that was in 33km optimal of damps. Meaning that you cannot shut down more than 2 bs, unless if you warp closer etc... (exactly what scorps and ravens can do). Also after i 1volleyed huginn with tempest, i don't really think these ships have a part in fleets atm.
Die, die, die. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.26 17:13:00 -
[38]
Amarr and Caldari Recons are nice.
Amarrs shine in small scale and solo combat, Caldaris are best for fleetbattles
Gallente Recons... I have seen some
Minmatar Recons... Rofl, I want that weed too!
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.05.26 17:15:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jim Raynor i dunno, the minmatar ones arent that bad, i mean with rage torps a minnie recon + raven could really clean up with its web/painting bonuses
Not sure why the OP is talking about 'balance' for because if you want to eat an apple, you'll eat an apple, not an orange.
What Jim says here is exactly how Recons should be used, but I'd go one further:
Huggin + Lachesis + Raven = horrible death
Web and paint + sensor damp and scram + serious missile volleys.....
The ships are not supposed to do the same thing, they are different just like fruit. Choose the one you want for the job you need to do.
Job done, nuff said.
Justice
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.05.26 17:28:00 -
[40]
To whoever asked, the gallente recons can easily tank sentries in a group, we do it all the time. And its the only way to cover those huge gates over in heimatar. However, they should probably get a bonus to something other than damps since dampening and warp scrambling usually don't go hand in hand.
Minnie recons are great if you have a raven with rage torps or a phoenix. But that's too limited of a role if you ask me.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.05.26 17:57:00 -
[41]
You can't beat a ECM rapier, just not happening :)
--------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates --------------- |
Bazman
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Posted - 2006.05.26 20:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Bazman The Arazu and the Lachesis are both WTFPWN mobiles. Infact, I'd go as far as saying that the Lachesis is by far the most useful recon ship within a fleet battle. Not only can you disable up to 5 ships if you get very lucky, but people think you are useless so they don't even target you! Can't get much better than that! :p
Seriously though, I love my cheap, cheap Lachesis'
This makes me think.. have you ever really used damps? It takes 3x t2 damps fitted on arazu with signal suppresion(damp specialization:P to put 2x t2 sb tempest to 28km. And that was in 33km optimal of damps. Meaning that you cannot shut down more than 2 bs, unless if you warp closer etc... (exactly what scorps and ravens can do). Also after i 1volleyed huginn with tempest, i don't really think these ships have a part in fleets atm.
Signal Suppression 4 baby
My damps do like 67%, and my optimal is 33km with 72km falloff (Both range skills at 2 atm) You can litterally switch off a battleship from shooting at your fleet at least once every 30 seconds at 100km, When you have 5 Battleships being messed with like this it turns out to be frustratingly effective. And like I said, barely anyone will shoot at a Lachesis because they think it's totally junk, which puts it's usefulness in a fleet over that of a Rook because they tend to be shot at more than Scorps :P
It's all practical experience I've had with the Lachesis like this, and I agree, it is not as useful in a small gang as other recons, but it is a deliciously evil ship :P -----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.05.26 20:55:00 -
[43]
i love the huginn... they are pretty used in FZN
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Pandora S
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Posted - 2006.05.26 21:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Justice Bringer What Jim says here is exactly how Recons should be used, but I'd go one further:
Huggin + Lachesis + Raven = horrible death
Web and paint + sensor damp and scram + serious missile volleys.....
OMG OMG OMG after that statement il go str8 to jita and buy me a Huggin + lachesis + Raven + rage torps = 300 million isk and PWN ALL.
Oh wait i could just save me 200 million isk and buy the me a bellicose and a celestis that could do the exact same job with a rage torp raven
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.05.26 22:01:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Bazman The Arazu and the Lachesis are both WTFPWN mobiles. Infact, I'd go as far as saying that the Lachesis is by far the most useful recon ship within a fleet battle. Not only can you disable up to 5 ships if you get very lucky, but people think you are useless so they don't even target you! Can't get much better than that! :p
Seriously though, I love my cheap, cheap Lachesis'
This makes me think.. have you ever really used damps? It takes 3x t2 damps fitted on arazu with signal suppresion(damp specialization:P to put 2x t2 sb tempest to 28km. And that was in 33km optimal of damps. Meaning that you cannot shut down more than 2 bs, unless if you warp closer etc... (exactly what scorps and ravens can do). Also after i 1volleyed huginn with tempest, i don't really think these ships have a part in fleets atm.
Signal Suppression 4 baby
My damps do like 67%, and my optimal is 33km with 72km falloff (Both range skills at 2 atm) You can litterally switch off a battleship from shooting at your fleet at least once every 30 seconds at 100km, When you have 5 Battleships being messed with like this it turns out to be frustratingly effective. And like I said, barely anyone will shoot at a Lachesis because they think it's totally junk, which puts it's usefulness in a fleet over that of a Rook because they tend to be shot at more than Scorps :P
It's all practical experience I've had with the Lachesis like this, and I agree, it is not as useful in a small gang as other recons, but it is a deliciously evil ship :P
Well i have sig. suppression lvl3.. oh 66.25% baby:P I guess i get pwned here. But you get pwned here... at 100km you damp 30% so... 3x sensor boosted bs will laugh at you. Well not laugh exactly, but you won't shut down more than 1.
I agree it is useful ship, but i guess it performs better with jammers.
Die, die, die. |
moroti
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Posted - 2006.05.26 22:21:00 -
[46]
Regarding the Gallante scramble bonus. Some corpmates and I were just arguing today as to whether it would be overpowered if the 10% scramble range was changed to 10% range and effectiveness. I can't decide if it would or not, but would love it if my lachesis was boosted that way
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.05.26 22:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: moroti Regarding the Gallante scramble bonus. Some corpmates and I were just arguing today as to whether it would be overpowered if the 10% scramble range was changed to 10% range and effectiveness. I can't decide if it would or not, but would love it if my lachesis was boosted that way
effectiveness... = useless, because 7.5km scrams are useless on anything bigger than frig and 50% strength bonus to 1 point don't do anything vs 2x wcs standard.
Die, die, die. |
moroti
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Posted - 2006.05.26 22:30:00 -
[48]
Yeah, but 2 28km's at lvl5 = 3 points of scramble at 42km. Which is kinda useful... Though I guess not as nice as having a better range bonus and dropping the faction stuff.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.05.26 22:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Bazman on 26/05/2006 22:44:57
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Bazman The Arazu and the Lachesis are both WTFPWN mobiles. Infact, I'd go as far as saying that the Lachesis is by far the most useful recon ship within a fleet battle. Not only can you disable up to 5 ships if you get very lucky, but people think you are useless so they don't even target you! Can't get much better than that! :p
Seriously though, I love my cheap, cheap Lachesis'
This makes me think.. have you ever really used damps? It takes 3x t2 damps fitted on arazu with signal suppresion(damp specialization:P to put 2x t2 sb tempest to 28km. And that was in 33km optimal of damps. Meaning that you cannot shut down more than 2 bs, unless if you warp closer etc... (exactly what scorps and ravens can do). Also after i 1volleyed huginn with tempest, i don't really think these ships have a part in fleets atm.
Signal Suppression 4 baby
My damps do like 67%, and my optimal is 33km with 72km falloff (Both range skills at 2 atm) You can litterally switch off a battleship from shooting at your fleet at least once every 30 seconds at 100km, When you have 5 Battleships being messed with like this it turns out to be frustratingly effective. And like I said, barely anyone will shoot at a Lachesis because they think it's totally junk, which puts it's usefulness in a fleet over that of a Rook because they tend to be shot at more than Scorps :P
It's all practical experience I've had with the Lachesis like this, and I agree, it is not as useful in a small gang as other recons, but it is a deliciously evil ship :P
Well i have sig. suppression lvl3.. oh 66.25% baby:P I guess i get pwned here. But you get pwned here... at 100km you damp 30% so... 3x sensor boosted bs will laugh at you. Well not laugh exactly, but you won't shut down more than 1.
I agree it is useful ship, but i guess it performs better with jammers.
3 x Sensor Booster BS / 67% = 83km. Roughly 50% chance to damp at 100km. It does work pretty effectively :P Most fights happen at like 120km though, but even stopping two BS's shooting for even 10 seconds is like a winzor for an EW ship
I'm gonna shut up now because i'm gonna make their prices go up if i keep saying they're good :P
edit: It is still litterally a case of spam dampening them though, if you feel lucky, put one damp on seperate battleships, putting 2 per BS gives the best results though, keeps them almost perma-damped if you stagger activations -----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.05.26 23:10:00 -
[50]
You seem to like the Lachesis a lot Bazman, but unfortunately its still the worst combat recon ship in the game right now. You're using it strictly for the damps, and at long range fights, well.. no offense but you paid 60mil for two extra medium slots. A Celestis can do the job equally well. The whole point of using tech 2 would be to use the warp disruption bonus, or the superior firepower, or the superior resists - none of which you are doing. Thats probably why you like it so much, you're relying on its Tech 1 bonus.
The Lachesis is so terrible by comparison to the Arazu because you're giving up the ability to warp cloaked for the sake of one launcher. For the same reason the Ares and Eris are such worthless ships, Lachesis fails at life - Rodin designs are an abomination. I wouldn't fly it for build cost.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.05.26 23:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: LUKEC Well i have sig. suppression lvl3.. oh 66.25% baby:P I guess i get pwned here. But you get pwned here... at 100km you damp 30% so... 3x sensor boosted bs will laugh at you. Well not laugh exactly, but you won't shut down more than 1.
I agree it is useful ship, but i guess it performs better with jammers.
No hunnybums. Once your out of optimal its just the chance to dampen that lowers. If it does work, it works for the full 100%. (66.25% in this case :P)
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Shinnen
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Posted - 2006.05.26 23:34:00 -
[52]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist You seem to like the Lachesis a lot Bazman, but unfortunately its still the worst combat recon ship in the game right now. You're using it strictly for the damps, and at long range fights, well.. no offense but you paid 60mil for two extra medium slots. A Celestis can do the job equally well. The whole point of using tech 2 would be to use the warp disruption bonus, or the superior firepower, or the superior resists - none of which you are doing. Thats probably why you like it so much, you're relying on its Tech 1 bonus.
The Lachesis is so terrible by comparison to the Arazu because you're giving up the ability to warp cloaked for the sake of one launcher. For the same reason the Ares and Eris are such worthless ships, Lachesis fails at life - Rodin designs are an abomination. I wouldn't fly it for build cost.
♥ ♥ ♥
So glad someone agrees that it's the worst combat recon.
Shinnen ------------------
People that think they know it all, just annoy those of us that do. |
Moridan
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Posted - 2006.05.26 23:50:00 -
[53]
For the Huginn, it needs a 4th turret slot and lighter weight(so sloooooww). More powergrid would help too. I bet you can see where i'm going with this heh.
Anyways, everytime i've warped into combat with one, i've seen everything cruiser size and smaller head for the hills.
I warped in to help a alliance mate being attacked by two crows and when i webbed em at 35k they got out of dodge faster that you can shake a stick. If i only had a lachesis with me .... "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: LUKEC Well i have sig. suppression lvl3.. oh 66.25% baby:P I guess i get pwned here. But you get pwned here... at 100km you damp 30% so... 3x sensor boosted bs will laugh at you. Well not laugh exactly, but you won't shut down more than 1.
I agree it is useful ship, but i guess it performs better with jammers.
No hunnybums. Once your out of optimal its just the chance to dampen that lowers. If it does work, it works for the full 100%. (66.25% in this case :P)
Wouldnt be so sure about it, since thy cant miss. If you dampen something you will always get a "hit" message. But its not documented, like everything else here
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Elve Sorrow No hunnybums. Once your out of optimal its just the chance to dampen that lowers. If it does work, it works for the full 100%. (66.25% in this case :P)
Wouldnt be so sure about it, since thy cant miss. If you dampen something you will always get a "hit" message. But its not documented, like everything else here
This has been tested quite extensively and Elve's right.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:24:00 -
[56]
Target Painters aren't bad in general its just a lot of Minmatar pilots escew missile skills to go arty or AC + NOS route. They are good for Ravens and thats a fact.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Ikusa
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:29:00 -
[57]
id think that the minmatar one is good for ratting with arty on it or anti cepter really web it and paint it from long range but still it isnt on the same lvl as the Amarr or Caldri and honestly the gallent one isnt that much bigger of a cut above it
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:34:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi Target Painters aren't bad in general its just a lot of Minmatar pilots escew missile skills to go arty or AC + NOS route. They are good for Ravens and thats a fact.
Maybe that, but tp also take a slot that could be used for some ECM or an extra scrambler. TP aren't junk, they just take the slot of... erm... powerful and useful mods.
NB.
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Amerame
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Posted - 2006.05.27 05:19:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Amerame on 27/05/2006 05:19:20 problem with lachesis & arazu is that you pretty much need to fit faction disruptor to use them for tackling purposes, 28km on scrambling range is just too short, and those toys are really expensive. Beside this nothing wrong with arazu & lachesis, when you do fit them with domination warp disruptor they're cool. Which is a bit annoying because you need to spend 500M on your arazu to get it work "as intented"
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.05.27 05:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Amerame Edited by: Amerame on 27/05/2006 05:19:20 problem with lachesis & arazu is that you pretty much need to fit faction disruptor to use them for tackling purposes, 28km on scrambling range is just too short, and those toys are really expensive. Beside this nothing wrong with arazu & lachesis, when you do fit them with domination warp disruptor they're cool. Which is a bit annoying because you need to spend 500M on your arazu to get it work "as intented"
--------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates --------------- |
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