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CheesusCrust
HildCo Interplanetar Villore Accords
0
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Posted - 2014.05.07 01:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks,
this post will mainly propose an idea to change the Warp Core Stabilizer module.
The reason for this proposal is the relative safety of farmers in factional warfare. Factional warfare should primarily be about small scale and solo pvp opportunities, but also currently offers the possibility to afk farm fw plexes for a huge amount of LP in nearly worthless ships without pvp intended fittings.
I know this can of beans has been opened many times, but I've had the chance to talk this over with a lot of people and I will try and make this as reasonable as possible.
First of all, the upcoming changes (respawning plex rats and cloak prevention in a 30km radius) is a great step forward to prevent non-pvp focused LP farming. I think I speak for many of my fellow devoted militia pilots out there when I say a big 'Thank You' to everyone who heard our pleas and made this possible. But since this is EVE, a few concerns about these changes will be listed at the end of the post.
Main Proposal: Add a negative damage modifier to the Warp Core Stabilizer module.
In my opinion, this would be the the most elegant solution to the problem. It would have the following positive effects to the current farming situation:
- Punishes the use of the module in a pvp environment for safety of escape.
- Combined with the upcoming npc respawns, this would deny or lengthen the time to complete fw complexes in a stabbed ship drastically.
- Likewise it would not punish new players with poor skills, as a buff to npc rats would.
- This would not meddle with the sandbox as much as a 'warp core stab'-ban in plexes would. You may still use them for safety, but at the cost of a higher time-consumption and thus less income.
Of course, the first thing we have to consider are the details and consequences:
- I'm not too good with Math so the damage modifier should be openly discussed.
- All ways to apply damage should be effected to make this work. Guns, missiles, drones, (smartbombs). I have no idea how much work this would be to implement. I will have to rely on the Devs to comment on that.
- I've already heard that apparently some pilots doing Incursions are using stabbs on their (multi-billion-ISK) ships and could possibly be affected by this change. Please comment, if you know more about this.
- To my knowledge, I don't see this interfering with any other play style, as transport & hauling ships usually don't have to put out damage. Please comment, if this would nerf your experience in any way outside of factional warfare.
Please reply to this post, if you want to support and/or further discuss this proposal. I've had a lot of positive feedback coming from the militia, but I'd like to get a broader view of the community on how this would effect your experience.
Also, some things to consider about the upcoming factional warfare changes:
- The Astero was great for hunting cloaky and/or stabbed farmers with it's cov ops cloak & multiple scrams fitted. With the upcoming changes, this will no longer be possible. Any ways to keep our new favourite toy viable for this job?
- And the big one that people are worried about: An even frig or dessi fight inside a medium plex might just be turned by a spawning cruiser npc. Are there ways to prevent this?
Last but not least, a big 'Thank You' to CCP Fozzie: Comedic Relief In contrast to what you might get from this pic, he openly listened to my proposal live at Fanfest this year. Plus, an apology. My slightly drunk corp CEO apparently liked this idea so much, he spammed him with it after the Party at the Top of the World.
Thanks for your time, CheesusCrust
tl;dr: It's EVE, dude. This game has a built-in calculator. Read the post. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2589
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Posted - 2014.05.07 02:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
timer rollbacks and stabs/cloaks become no longer relevant eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5256
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Posted - 2014.05.07 03:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
That CCP is now denying the opportunity of camping plexes in cloaked combat ships just goes to show what side they're taking in this argument.
Edited to add: if the plex farmers are actually AFK, you have ample time to blow them up before they can escape. Also, just because someone isn't making themselves easy prey for you doesn't mean the rules need to be changed. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
419
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Posted - 2014.05.07 04:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:. Also, just because someone isn't making themselves easy prey for you doesn't mean the rules need to be changed.
Gonna say this. Not sure where this mindset for pvp came from. I was taught if looking real bad and you get that lucky break and get a shot to gtfo....gtfo. Old boy stomping your ass blows his orbit hard and breaks tackle, best you use those few seconds and clear out if you can. But that's me, dying like an idiot is not pvp. Its dying like an idiot.
Well that and not seeing the issue. 0.0 and WH has been dealing with people in pve mode avoiding roam attacks for years. Sometimes you have to get creative to catch them. I know from 0.0 there is one rule good to follow: don't pvp in pve ships, bad things can happen. I never faulted a ratter for clearing out if he could. Did the same thing when I ratted. |
zen zubon
Asteroid Bluez S I L E N T.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.07 04:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
with warp core stabs fit the acceleration gates so go nope sorry just like they do with rookie ships, If i can't fly T2 fit rookie ships in FW plexs for fun warp core stabs shouldn't get in either. |
Jureka
HildCo Interplanetar Villore Accords
0
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Posted - 2014.05.07 04:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Don't forget the Venture! No Punishmet with build in Stabs :) and cheap as other T1 Frigs. |
Joffy Aulx-Gao
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
7
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Posted - 2014.05.07 05:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I support this it's goddamn annoying to scram a ship, get it to hull and then it runs.. |
Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
236
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Posted - 2014.05.07 06:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah I don't have a particularly good feeling about the incoming changes. Removing the ability to cloak prevents setting up a trap for wary FW players, and respawning NPC's are going to get in the way of fights. It seems to me that stabs are the problem(1) in this situation. I would like to see CCP seriously re-evaluate the purpose of stabs and figure out what they want them to do:
--Are they for industrials, freighters, DST's, JF's ect. to help them move/haul stuff around?
--Are they (with a redesign) for hit-and-run tactics? If so, does the present use of stabs in FW fall into the category of hit-and-run tactics, or exploitation of the system?
--Are they for general use to help facilitate travel? If so, should they be available to all ships or just some (perhaps nothing smaller then a cruiser)?
--Would we be better off removing stabs altogether and baking a warp-core strength bonus into certain ships (like the venture)?
I have the impression that stabs were a concept CCP wanted to place in game with a strong trade off (hence their heavy drawbacks making them rather useless on combat ships). But the drawbacks applied limit their uses to running around rather then anything dynamic. Obviously resistance to tackle is a very powerful bonus and would need to be considered heavily if we want to bring it into the PvP meta, but it may be a better use of stabs to redesign them out of their "you can only run away" foundation and perhaps try and swing them more towards niche skirmishing. To this end, I am unsure as to whether I agree with the OPs suggestion. All it seems to do is lengthen the period required to farm rather then address stabs as a rather half-baked module.
Counter Proposal: Let's limit stabs to 1 stab equipped per fit (like a damage control) and change the detriment to a reduction in warp speed. We should also add small and large versions. The small version means that dual long-points or a scram can still tackle most ships, but allow kiting ships to more easily pick and choose fights. This however allows skillful pilots to try and "catch up" to a target that is attempting to flee from combat. The large version would have high fitting requirements and a stronger warp-core strength bonus, but could only be equipped to freighters and JF's/other relevant industrial and transport ships. This seems like a more interesting concept for a module to me then what we presently have.
(1) It's not so much that using a stabs in FW is a "problem" exactly since it's using stabs for what they were clearly designed for...running away. The issue lies that doing so in FW is rather against the spirit of the concept as using them allows for relatively risk-free farming. It's a weakness in the design more then it is an exploit. However I do agree that it definitely needs to be properly addressed. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5256
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Posted - 2014.05.07 06:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gigan Amilupar wrote:(1) It's not so much that using a stabs in FW is a "problem" exactly since it's using stabs for what they were clearly designed for...running away. The issue lies that doing so in FW is rather against the spirit of the concept as using them allows for relatively risk-free farming. It's a weakness in the design more then it is an exploit. However I do agree that it definitely needs to be properly addressed.
There is plenty of risk in farming with a stabbed plex runner: the risk is that you fail to make bank. You driving the plexer away is engaging in PvP. You are directly interfering with their ISK-making.
What is the spirit of Faction Warfare, and why is using warp core stabilisers going against that spirit?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1756
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Posted - 2014.05.07 06:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have no problems with stabbed farmers - if I hunt them intentionally I have 2 scrams fitted, if I just happen to see them i will go in hoping I can alpha them before they warp away. And even if they warp away I can happily sit in plex and talk with my corpies while he hangs at safe raging about his ISK/h ration going down the drains.
With that being said I still think FW should be more about "war" and less about "fare". Also: timer rollbacks. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
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Cheekything
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
166
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Posted - 2014.05.07 06:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't see the issue of someone wasting a low slot on something that makes the plex farming that much more awkward.
Most of them are easy to chase off and thats how you hurt them by not letting them farm, if you chase them out of ever plex they get emo make a rage post on the forums/reddit and log off for the day.
The catching of these 10-20 mill ships is not a priority, the inference of their income is. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5258
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Posted - 2014.05.07 07:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
The best part about stabbed FW plex farming is the taste of the tears, honestly (and I don't even AFK farm plexes or use WCS in my fits).
CCP THE GAME IS BROKEN BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE I CAN'T SHOOT! YOU MUST CHANGE THE RULES SO THEY ALL PLAY THE GAME MY WAY!
If this was miners complaining that a single catalyst can gank their yield-optimised hulk, you'd be laying on the ridicule in layers so thick it would collapse under its own gravity.
But no, it's "elite PvPers" complaining that some targets are hard to catch. If CCP caves in to nerfing stabbed plex farmers, next it will be MWD+cloak industrials, then it will be Prowlers, then it will be all the blockade runners, then it will be interdiction nullified T3s, then it will be everyone using covops cloaks, and then it will be everyone who shoots back.
Okay, maybe I'm heading into histrionics of my own.
One moment you were shooting a target, the next you weren't. Bring more/better WCS, or more DPS to explode the target before they wake up and escape.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
236
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Posted - 2014.05.07 07:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Gigan Amilupar wrote:(1) It's not so much that using a stabs in FW is a "problem" exactly since it's using stabs for what they were clearly designed for...running away. The issue lies that doing so in FW is rather against the spirit of the concept as using them allows for relatively risk-free farming. It's a weakness in the design more then it is an exploit. However I do agree that it definitely needs to be properly addressed. There is plenty of risk in farming with a stabbed plex runner: the risk is that you fail to make bank. You driving the plexer away is engaging in PvP. You are directly interfering with their ISK-making. What is the spirit of Faction Warfare, and why is using warp core stabilisers going against that spirit?
Everything in EvE is PvP. But the ability to pick and choose fights with near impunity and being able to retreat in a manner that only costs some time that could be spent making isk isn't really "risk" when compared to the asset loss associated with combat (regardless of the degree of loss, as loss < no net gain). Moreso it fosters an attitude of farming sites as opposed to an attitude of meaningful conflict, that is the "war" part of "faction warfare". So while you technically are correct in your statement, it's more the fact that the perspective of "risk" should shifted more towards the "risk of being exploded" rather then the "risk of maybe not making as much money as you could have". Especially considering that the venue for said revenue generation is an area of violent conflict. |
Niden
Moira. Villore Accords
35
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Agree with OP: negative damage modifier is the most elegant solution. Other solutions proposed feel contrived and unnecessarily complicated.
30km decloak from button killing the occasional Astero fit doesnGÇÖt hold up as an argument against the feature GÇô the problem is just infinitely bigger that concern for individual fits.
NPCGÇÖs ruining fights might very well be a necessary evil. But just as it may ruin some fights (and indeed solo kills) it might be considered the natural part of the landscape due to faction control of the system. For me the juryGÇÖs still out on this one.
Most of all: people are missing the point.
ItGÇÖs not what problems YOU have with the farmers as an individual GÇô itGÇÖs what farming as a concept does to the game. The fact of the matter is that ALL farming is bad. The very definition of farming is doing something repetitive, non-engaging and with close to zero content value for the participant or their fellow gamers. FW is supposed to be about fighting and having a good time, Killing is Just a Means of CommunicationGäó after all ;). Farming is the exact opposite of that and in fact just a means to do something else GÇô no more. As such it represents a failure of the system.
Ideally killing and having fun should also be the primary source of reward in FW. WeGÇÖre not there yet, but taking strong steps to stamp out farming is a good first step.
Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia | Crossing Zebras writer @Niden_GMVA |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1004
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 08:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Do we need a thread that collects all the "Fix Warps stabs in factional warfare" Threads? Or at least "fix plex farming in factional warfare"...
Because one of those seems to spawn every other day... Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Niden
Moira. Villore Accords
35
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Except this OP took the trouble to go to FF and talk to CCP about it directly. I have also pointed our two new lowsec CSM representatives over here. Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia | Crossing Zebras writer @Niden_GMVA |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
206
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Niden wrote:ItGÇÖs not what problems YOU have with the farmers as an individual GÇô itGÇÖs what farming as a concept does to the game. The fact of the matter is that ALL farming is bad. The very definition of farming is doing something repetitive, non-engaging and with close to zero content value for the participant or their fellow gamers. FW is supposed to be about fighting and having a good time, Killing is Just a Means of CommunicationGäó after all ;). Farming is the exact opposite of that and in fact just a means to do something else GÇô no more. As such it represents a failure of the system. ^^ this.
Also, farmers strongly affect warzone control, that most people think that should be affected only or primarily by combat pilots. You will notice that nobody's complaining that stealth bombers blitzing FW missions are hard to catch, because they don't affect warzone control.
By the way, FW vets know fully well how to manipulate farmer hoards for warzone control, using the Tier system. They're smart and have adapted. But they still think the current system is a bit silly and can be improved upon. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
748
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well two in one day, that's unusual.
lazy, so cutting and pasting from the other one.
Quote:There are Plenty of ways to catch them. A few stabs do not make them impossible to catch and kill. A challenge? yes. Easy? No. It is a game of cat and mouse. They are being good mice. A cat should not complain and ask that the mouse should have one foot nailed to the ground, and blow a trumpet so it can be found.because, you know, it is just not Fair! So not a good idea. Risk reward you say? Why should the mouse be a victim for your cheap risk free kills, and prevented from being a good mouse? Fight back you say? Mice make poor cats you know. Suggestion? Be a better cat. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
206
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Well two in one day, that's unusual. lazy, so cutting and pasting from the other one. Quote:There are Plenty of ways to catch them. A few stabs do not make them impossible to catch and kill. A challenge? yes. Easy? No. It is a game of cat and mouse. They are being good mice. A cat should not complain and ask that the mouse should have one foot nailed to the ground, and blow a trumpet so it can be found.because, you know, it is just not Fair! So not a good idea. Risk reward you say? Why should the mouse be a victim for your cheap risk free kills, and prevented from being a good mouse? Fight back you say? Mice make poor cats you know. Suggestion? Be a better cat. Except that we don't really care about catching them.
What we're asking for, is mechanics that would make farming much less easy and thus less profitable. For example, timer rollbacks.
Because less farmers = more pvp for warzone control and also more ISK/LP for the PVPers - to spend on more ships to blow up = more fun content.
Hope it's clear. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
86
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
well how about instead of nerfing something that people other than fw farmers use how about we get rid of button orbiting as the only method of warzone control and add pvp as the primary factor and keep the buttons for systems that people don't live in or defen. Something along the lines of once you warp into a plex if you warp out while an opposing faction is on grid with either the gate or inside the plex it moves slightly in favour of the opposing faction killing another member of the opposing faction move it more into your control (the bigger the kill the more it moves it).
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1255
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
OK, I'm not a FW expert but WCS aren't broken, FW is. You don't break one module because a system is broken and if you do you break it for the whole of New Eden.
Personally, I think you need to HTFU and bring more points, more friends or more DPS if you don't like WCS use then bring the counter to it.
People fit WCS to escape, strange notion I know, and the counter to that is points, Faction points at that (+3). Is there a Faction WCS? Nope.
So the more WCS you fit the less distance you can lock at which is called balance.
So now I've covered that please tell me why they should have another negative bonus added for their use? Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
207
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:OK, I'm not a FW expert but WCS aren't broken, FW is. You don't break one module because a system is broken and if you do you break it for the whole of New Eden.
Personally, I think you need to HTFU and bring more points, more friends or more DPS if you don't like WCS use then bring the counter to it.
People fit WCS to escape, strange notion I know, and the counter to that is points, Faction points at that (+3). Is there a Faction WCS? Nope.
So the more WCS you fit the less distance you can lock at which is called balance.
So now I've covered that please tell me why they should have another negative bonus added for their use? Yes, that's why many people prefer timer rollbacks.
Let the farmers run, but give them a time penalty for their cowardly ways. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
748
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Well two in one day, that's unusual. lazy, so cutting and pasting from the other one. Quote:There are Plenty of ways to catch them. A few stabs do not make them impossible to catch and kill. A challenge? yes. Easy? No. It is a game of cat and mouse. They are being good mice. A cat should not complain and ask that the mouse should have one foot nailed to the ground, and blow a trumpet so it can be found.because, you know, it is just not Fair! So not a good idea. Risk reward you say? Why should the mouse be a victim for your cheap risk free kills, and prevented from being a good mouse? Fight back you say? Mice make poor cats you know. Suggestion? Be a better cat. Except that we don't really care about catching them. What we're asking for, is mechanics that would make farming much less easy and thus less profitable. For example, timer rollbacks. Because less farmers = more pvp for warzone control and also more ISK/LP for the PVPers - to spend on more ships to blow up = more fun content. Hope it's clear. Trying to understand the logic here, step one remove farmers step 2 ??? Step 3 more PVP and profit.... Really cannot see what step2 is. Underpants Gnomes comes to mind. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
209
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Trying to understand the logic here, step one remove farmers step 2 ??? Step 3 more PVP and profit.... Really cannot see what step2 is. Underpants Gnomes comes to mind. That's why it's best not to post about topics you're not familiar with.
Think of total demand for faction gear as a big tasty pie. Say it's worth 1 trillion ISK per month (net of LP store costs).
To get a slice of that pie you need to convert LPs and sell faction gear. Each player, farmer or PVPer, gets a slice of that tasty pie based on the LP he has converted as a % of total LPs converted.
As everybody knows, more total LP (e.g. when a faction is in high Tier) means less ISK/LP. But the total available ISK (coming from people buying faction gear) remains roughly the same. So all that matters is how much LP each player has compared to the total LP supply.
So less farmers = bigger slice of the pie for PVPers. It's a bit more complicated, but that's how it works.
As for PVP activity, I meant that warzone control would be more about pvp and less about farmers. But yes, I'd also expect a bit more total PVP and in shinier ships because of the increased ISK in PVPers' wallets.
Finally, I'm not saying that die-hard farmers would become bloodthirsty PVPers, but at least a few of them would consider joining a FW corp and trying out PVP if pure farming was nerfed.
Hope it's even clearer now. |
Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm. Black Flag Society
245
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Perhaps introduce incursion like spawns? One ship as tough as a player and if you succeed in killing it you get LP in the same vein as an equivalent site.
Just for some variety and they're faster to complete but with very high risks. Defending players would naturally force an attacker to bring a gang which increases the completion frequency etc etc LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Niden
Moira. Villore Accords
38
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:That's why it's best not to post about topics you're not familiar with.
Think of total demand for faction gear as a big tasty pie. Say it's worth 1 trillion ISK per month (net of LP store costs).
To get a slice of that pie you need to convert LPs and sell faction gear. Each player, farmer or PVPer, gets a slice of that tasty pie based on the LP he has converted as a % of total LPs converted.
As everybody knows, more total LP (e.g. when a faction is in high Tier) means less ISK/LP. But the total available ISK (coming from people buying faction gear) remains roughly the same. So all that matters is how much LP each player has compared to the total LP supply.
So less farmers = bigger slice of the pie for PVPers. It's a bit more complicated, but that's how it works.
As for PVP activity, I meant that warzone control would be more about pvp and less about farmers. But yes, I'd also expect a bit more total PVP and in shinier ships because of the increased ISK in PVPers' wallets.
Finally, I'm not saying that die-hard farmers would become bloodthirsty PVPers, but at least a few of them would consider joining a FW corp and trying out PVP if pure farming was nerfed.
Hope it's even clearer now.
^ THIS.
Exactly, well said. People are missing the point - farmers are not part of the FW system, they are a symptom of a disease in the system. Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia | Crossing Zebras writer @Niden_GMVA |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
213
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Niden wrote:Exactly, well said. Thank you sir.
And keep up the excellent work on Crossing Zebras! The post on the fall of Innia made me shed a tear or two... |
Lin Suizei
217
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:As for PVP activity, I meant that warzone control would be more about pvp and less about farmers. But yes, I'd also expect a bit more total PVP and in shinier ships because of the increased ISK in PVPers' wallets.
Finally, I'm not saying that die-hard farmers would become bloodthirsty PVPers, but at least a few of them would consider joining a FW corp and trying out PVP if pure farming was nerfed.
That's cool and all, but don't forget these "farmers" are often normal FW players, unwilling to risk their ship unless they have overwhelming advantage, like the Algos - piloted by the CEO of a Gallente Militia corporation no less - who ran away from a Tristan earlier because "you're probably kite fit".
No matter the nerfs, many of these players - FW players, not just farming alts - simply don't want to face risk, and patching mechanics without patching underlying incentives simply drives these players to quit. Lol I can't delete my forum sig. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
215
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Posted - 2014.05.07 13:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:That's cool and all, but don't forget these "farmers" are often normal FW players, unwilling to risk their ship unless they have overwhelming advantage, like the Algos - piloted by the CEO of a Gallente Militia corporation no less - who ran away from a Tristan earlier because "you're probably kite fit". A GalMil CEO certainly provides tons more content than a 'professional' farmer that only flies cloaky stabbed ships and possibly never even talks to anybody in Militia, let alone fights anybody. Regardless of said CEO's tactical combat decisions in that specific occasion.
Even though some active FW PVPers occasionaly farm in cheap ships (when nobody's looking ) or alts, they generally use the LPs to fund their PVP, leading to enjoyable content for all EVE-kind.
Risk-adversity is independant of farming or pvp-ing. I honestly would prefer 5 (ex-)farmers trying to gangbang me when I'm soloing than having them semi-afk plex each on their own. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
107
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Posted - 2014.05.07 13:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
you could just make stabs an active module, that take up alot of cap. thinking of it if u wanted to stabilise a "core" you would probably have to divert alot of your ships power to do so |
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