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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
398
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Posted - 2014.04.13 18:09:00 -
[91] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:BrundleMeth wrote:How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute... How about we get rid of them and give no one any bonus at all?
Learning Skills
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Agondray
Dark Forge Enterprise Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
93
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Posted - 2014.04.13 19:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Zappity wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Wesley Otsdarva wrote:Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.
Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk. And if you are going to spring for +5s just get a low grade pirate implant set and have some fun. Only a little more expensive and it provides real, tangible, boosts to your ship. Pirate sets are +3 learning too. Doesn't change the principle. Do you think T2 and faction ships should be removed also? Why should you be forced to choose between paying more ISK and having a more effective ship? The increased loss is just a penalty and a disincentive to PvP, right? Actually, why should ships be destroyed at all....?
your right if ships didn't get destroyed more people would pvp like in world of tanks and such since that's all that exist. Also get rid of the killboards and kbnazi's won't worry about losses and pvp more. although not losing ships and all will cause prices to go up and Industry will become not needed
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2586
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Posted - 2014.04.13 19:35:00 -
[93] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:BrundleMeth wrote:How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute... How about we get rid of them and give no one any bonus at all? Learning Skills
That's nice. Do you have a point you would like to make using complete sentences?
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
989
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:44:00 -
[94] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:I know for a fact that implants of any type are not a discouragement for you personally to PvP. Domanique is probably referring to the time she podded me in a low grade snake set. That was a good fight although a disappointing derp at the end. These things happen!
Domanique Altares wrote:On a one year training plan, spent sitting in those implants, yes.
When you bounce in and out of them on a regular basis, they start to lose their luster quickly.
I make one year skill plans. So that I know what I will be training this year. My current one year plan was begun on January 3rd. At that point, it was set to end on December 30th at around midnight local time. Due to time already spent in blank clones for roaming nullsec and other JC activity, it is now set to end on January 6th, 2015 at midday. I have all ideas that it will ultimately end somewhere around the 3rd week of January 2015.
These over runs are not wasted time. The reasons for the overruns (getting out of one clone and into another to partake of some sort of game play) is the only valuable time, because it was entertaining time spent playing. I don't play EVE with the skillqueue open, pawing myself with glee as the timer counts down, because that timer is so ******* awesome. Yes, this is the correct attitude. I think a lot of people don't think this way, though. I checked my own one year queue and found a 40 day difference between +5 and a low grade set +2.
I would still like to see +2, +3, +4, +5 boosters (non-stackable with implants) but until they arrive I think I'll just ignore my +5 set unless I'm going away. I still wonder how many fights are not given because of this. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
287
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Posted - 2014.04.13 22:02:00 -
[95] - Quote
Linna Baresi wrote:But the whole idea of learning implants needs to be overhauled, because once you have them, it IS a deterrent to actually going out and trying things. Sure, there's jump clones, but that's precious training time lost....
This assumes that everyone should be engaging in PvP on a regular basis. There is no intrinsic authority for that position. Not everyone wants to engage in null/lowsec PvP on a regular basis. Those people should be allowed to play as they wish, with the added risk that being podded will result in a huge ISK loss.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2162
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Posted - 2014.04.13 22:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
Yay,
This thread again.
CCP has already determined what the base training rate should be. Everyone trains at least at this rate minimum.
The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.
I have spent most of my EVE time in hostile WH space. I have never used more that +3 learning implants and I have never felt my EVE experience has been diminished in any way.
Bottom line is there is nothing wrong with the implant system as it stands.
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masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1650
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Posted - 2014.04.13 22:46:00 -
[97] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:
The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.
This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
287
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Posted - 2014.04.13 22:47:00 -
[98] - Quote
Linna Baresi wrote:
And contrary to what one of the previous posters said, +5 implants save a great deal of training time, even when compared to +3 implants. On a one year training plan, it can save as much as 90 days. That's hardly insignificant, especially to a new player.
No it doesn't. Over +3 implants on a one year timeline the difference in SP gain is 1,576,800. That is only 26 days of additional time to train at the lower +3 rate of 2,520 per hour.
Even over no implants the +5 give 3,942,000 additional SP over a year. That is only 73 days additional training at the lower +0 rate of 2,250 per hour.
Your claim of 90 days is too high. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20728
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Posted - 2014.04.13 22:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
GǪnot to mention that, if you're really that nutty about you skill training time, you'll be running year-long +10/+4 remaps anyway so you only ever need to have two learning implants at risk (and as others have pointed out, that pair can easily be the cheapest part of your implant setup).
SoGǪAlyth Nerun wrote:you only need 2 +4 implants never a full set, skills need only 2 attributes. And that's cheap GǪthis. That's all of 40M GÇö probably less than the cost of the ship + fittings GÇö and over a year you lose a whopping 788,400 SP compared to +5s. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
572
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:03:00 -
[100] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.
This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true.
Spend and risk the ISK.
I lost a set of CA's and +4s a few weeks back cos I got bored and went on a null roam in a faction frigate and picked a fight I shouldn't have with something way bigger and insta locking and was to slow warping away. I was like "meh just ISK" while thinking that guy is going to get a surprise when he sees the pod killmail (140 mill pod, 10 mill frigate). |
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
989
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:07:00 -
[101] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.
This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true. Spend and risk the ISK. I lost a set of CA's and +4s a few weeks back cos I got bored and went on a null roam in a faction frigate and picked a fight I shouldn't have with something way bigger and insta locking and was to slow warping away. I was like "meh just ISK" while thinking that guy is going to get a surprise when he sees the pod killmail (140 mill pod, 10 mill frigate). The last pod I lost cost 700m. This has nothing to do with ISK. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
34
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.
This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true. Spend and risk the ISK. I lost a set of CA's and +4s a few weeks back cos I got bored and went on a null roam in a faction frigate and picked a fight I shouldn't have with something way bigger and insta locking and was to slow warping away. I was like "meh just ISK" while thinking that guy is going to get a surprise when he sees the pod killmail (140 mill pod, 10 mill frigate). The last pod I lost cost 700m. This has nothing to do with ISK.
Isn't this all about isk? The fact that you don't want to risk +5s in pvp because they are too expensive? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
989
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:32:00 -
[103] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote:Isn't this all about isk? The fact that you don't want to risk +5s in pvp because they are too expensive? No:
Chribba wrote:Never forget Learning Skills...
But yes it's a tough choice between learning implants or other cool implants.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
masternerdguy
Dominion Task Force
1651
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Organic Lager wrote:Isn't this all about isk? The fact that you don't want to risk +5s in pvp because they are too expensive? No: Chribba wrote:Never forget Learning Skills...
But yes it's a tough choice between learning implants or other cool implants.
So you don't want to make choices? Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
573
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:40:00 -
[105] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote:Zappity wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.
This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true. Spend and risk the ISK. I lost a set of CA's and +4s a few weeks back cos I got bored and went on a null roam in a faction frigate and picked a fight I shouldn't have with something way bigger and insta locking and was to slow warping away. I was like "meh just ISK" while thinking that guy is going to get a surprise when he sees the pod killmail (140 mill pod, 10 mill frigate). The last pod I lost cost 700m. This has nothing to do with ISK. Isn't this all about isk? The fact that you don't want to risk +5s in pvp because they are too expensive?
The only reason my losec hauling and PI alts are pretty much empty is I do not want to encourage gankers in my PI areas by offering them good killmails. A well set up PI alt could lose a set of +5s every month and still turn a good profit.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
989
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:40:00 -
[106] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Zappity wrote:Organic Lager wrote:Isn't this all about isk? The fact that you don't want to risk +5s in pvp because they are too expensive? No: Chribba wrote:Never forget Learning Skills...
But yes it's a tough choice between learning implants or other cool implants. So you don't want to make choices? Why can't we have MORE choices? I want to choose between learning boosters and learning implants. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4654
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
Zappity wrote: Why can't we have MORE choices? I want to choose between learning boosters and learning implants.
My suggestion would be, that since the topic of the thread has diverged significantly as a result of the discussion, that you take the time to write it out for F&I.
Because you now have a concrete idea with which to build such a suggestion on. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
21
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:56:00 -
[108] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.
how about you learn how to fly around low sec with +5's instead of trying to get them removed since its not exactly that hard to select a celestial and click warp several times as your ship blows up to warp out to safely, besides this game isn't just about pvp as you well know. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2163
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
Zappity wrote:The last pod I lost cost 700m. This has nothing to do with ISK.
Really? Because your OP seems to prettly clearly indicate your issue with exploding with your +5's in. As well as your comments that these implants discourage PVP (due to cost).
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
398
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:21:00 -
[110] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:BrundleMeth wrote:How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute... How about we get rid of them and give no one any bonus at all? Learning Skills That's nice. Do you have a point you would like to make using complete sentences?
My apologies, I tend to forget not everyone has been around long enough to know anything about EvE history.
When CCP killed Learning Skills they refunded the SP and they normalized the attributes to be roughly equivalent to having them, so the logical move for them to make would be to do something similar if they removed the +attribute implants. Which means normalizing attributes again (and hopefully allowing for more extreme mapping) and reimbursing the obsolete implants (which I don't really care about).
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
574
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:49:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Zappity wrote: Why can't we have MORE choices? I want to choose between learning boosters and learning implants.
My suggestion would be, that since the topic of the thread has diverged significantly as a result of the discussion, that you take the time to write it out for F&I. Because you now have a concrete idea with which to build such a suggestion on.
Though if posting in F&I, I would suggest a title other than "I hate Implants". |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4658
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:59:00 -
[112] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Zappity wrote: Why can't we have MORE choices? I want to choose between learning boosters and learning implants.
My suggestion would be, that since the topic of the thread has diverged significantly as a result of the discussion, that you take the time to write it out for F&I. Because you now have a concrete idea with which to build such a suggestion on. Though if posting in F&I, I would suggest a title other than "I hate Implants".
Personally, I don't hate implants, although I do prefer naturals. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2965
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
Moving this from General Discussion to Features and Ideas. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
989
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:25:00 -
[114] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Zappity wrote: Why can't we have MORE choices? I want to choose between learning boosters and learning implants.
My suggestion would be, that since the topic of the thread has diverged significantly as a result of the discussion, that you take the time to write it out for F&I. Because you now have a concrete idea with which to build such a suggestion on. Good idea. Thanks ISD Dorrim.
I have updated the OP. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
408
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:25:00 -
[115] - Quote
Mag's wrote:[quote=Malcanis][quote=Zappity]I hateIf learning implants were removed, you would simply moan about something else stopping you playing. .
This. It be cost of these boosters they'd whine about next. Just don't see residents of delve being charitable selling the booster gas only in their region (name is escaping me, someone chime in to jog my memory if you want). Currently they are "nice" as they can't gouge too high...most don't need certain boosters to the point they will crap away stupid isk for them.
Make it so everyone needs thier gas components....they will charge. Not seeing drug pos owners being nice price wise either. Current implants get a price break...lp turn ins or storyline drops make it so sellers can't gouge. This takes a heavy empire source item set and turns it all over to low/0.0. Not getting warm fuzzy feelings from that personally.
Also haven't scoured this thread but have not seen side affects mentioned in brief look over. So what shall thay be....as boosters have side affects. Kind of needed...or peeps would be popping current combat drugs full time. Me I saved this for special occassions.
Which also leads to cost, again Isk and time costs in fact.. Neurotoxin control is not exactly a cheap skill. its about 169 mil to get this skill...jsut not seeing the new player friendly aspect here. Hell if memory serves this price is much greater than full spectrum learning skill cost back in the day. Which I recall as a noob was a pita to cough up the isk for to get at first even.
And as we throw in a few more skills they'd they'd whine as they brought learning skills part 2 on themselves. Which is what all these booster/related skills would be. Skill to increase duration, side effects....it be some time spent in these skills. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1882
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
sci0gon wrote:Zappity wrote:Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations. how about you learn how to fly around low sec with +5's instead of trying to get them removed since its not exactly that hard to select a celestial and click warp several times as your ship blows up to warp out to safely, besides this game isn't just about pvp as you well know.
Exchange +5's with "learning skills" and your argument/point of view would still be terrible.
Add +5 to each attribute then come out with new cool hardwires for us to use to replace them in the LP store. It helps everyone and if there still needs to be learning boosts have it be from drugs. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
357
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:34:00 -
[117] - Quote
Simple solution...if you can't afford to lose +5s don't fly with them...i worked out roughly that to train a lvl 5 skill with +3's takes about 5 days more than +5's. Just how much extra would you do with a skill 5 days sooner? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
989
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:14:00 -
[118] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Simple solution...if you can't afford to lose +5s don't fly with them...? Either you fail at comprehension or you didn't read past the title. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
357
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:32:00 -
[119] - Quote
I comprehend just fine. You hate implants and want boosters as well so you can fly at less risk whilst still training at the same rate. That is less risk for the same reward. Make the boosters expensive to counter this and you simply favour the rich. Not undocking is a player choice based upon their willingness to lose stuff. Making that choice trivial by introducing easy ways to avoid the risk and you break the risk/reward balance.persoalky i don't think fitting anything in your clone or ship that would ever stop you undocking is a good idea. Why limit yourself for the sake of a little patience? |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
17053
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:58:00 -
[120] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Simple solution...if you can't afford to lose +5s don't fly with them...? Either you fail at comprehension or you didn't read past the title. Well it is in fact far worse than that. The reason you give for change is as follows:
I do not want to PvP in my learning implants because I am l33t.
Hardly a valid reason.
Oh and you'd do far better, by removing the hate line in the OP and title.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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