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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
173
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 00:45:00 -
[961] - Quote
LaserzPewPew wrote:The forum ate my post! Round two. It appears I need to be more winded to explain drone ai. Drones will mwd to catch up to a target then shut its mwd off for ten seconds. This is problematic for anything mwding faster than 1500ms as medium drones have an activation range of 1500m. Add that to a server tick issue and your drones are getting one shot off every cycle regardless of the drone speed buff. So that rules out kiting scenarios.
Medium and heavy drones also have the same gun resolution. 125mm. If you have a target scrammed/webbed, tracking is no longer and issue and you apply the drone that puts out the most damage. Hammerheads post patch will be 600ish while ogres currently put down 850 and gardes come in at 800.
First, the MWD issue with drones means the +500% bonus on the drones is a HUGE buff compared to how it used to be. Gila hammerheads with 3 DDAs do 1400 damage per shot. That means two of them will still do 280 DPS even if they're only firing once every ten seconds, and this will not take long to scrape off an interceptor.
Second, whether or not a gun hits the target is a factor of both tracking and gun resolution. Medium drones have better tracking so they apply damage better, even though the gun resolution is the same. Medium drones orbit 60% faster than heavies but have 2.4 times the tracking, so they are going to apply damage better than heavies. Prepatch heavy drones will only outperform postpatch Gila mediums on targets that the heavies were perfectly applying their damage to in the first place. Since heavy drones are well known to orbit fast enough to ruin their own tracking even on webbed targets, the mediums are simply going to perform better unless you're shooting at a battleship or something else running its MWD while webbed. |
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
36
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 03:20:00 -
[962] - Quote
Hammerheads will never catch up to an interceptor. Period. Valks perhaps with a drone nav bringing it up to about 5kms- the speed of a ceptor.
Second, a hammerhead will turn it's mwd off for 10 seconds then it will have to mwd back into range before it fires again to fall back out. If your hammerheads are moving at 2.5kms and your target is moving at 1.5kms (the slowest t1 cruiser without nanos), your hammerheads will have to burn for 10 seconds after reactivating it's mwd for a total of 20 seconds of not firing. If the target is moving at 2kms, (speed of a caracal), you are looking at 30 seconds in between volleys. Now try applying dps to a t2 cruiser who can point and mwd cap stable @2kms+.
Simply, you can't. You will be pointed while your tank is being chunked away. Your drones will be doing less than 20% of their paperdoll damage and you will be hopelessly shooting light missiles hoping for intervention. Note: Valkaries improve this somewhat, but their dps is much reduced so the math still stands.
Wall of text incoming. TLDR: Gila loses. Just to flaunt and to show I'm not full of crap, you can start by reading this. http://themittani.com/features/lifestyles-blaptastic-laserzpewpew
For comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750. I have a 50% reduction to sig radius with mwd, you do not. You begin to chase me, I drop curators and burn directly away from you and keep you pointed. You drop whatever medium drones you want and send them out. My curators begin applying 650 dps while your mediums aren't even in range yet. I hope you packed EM resist or you are going to have a bad time. Your drones get to take a shot, then they fall behind. Over the twenty seconds you wait for your drones to catch up to take another shot, my curators fire 5 more times applying ~13000 ehp of damage. You realize you need to apply transversal and break away, I call, overheat my point and turn to match your direction. Your mediums get to take another shot, but since you are burning lateral from my drones, I get to also so your drones fall behind again. Your large sig radius and my drone tracking bonuses allow my curators to hit the majority of the time over the next five strikes. As your ~36kehp of shield depletes, your drones get one last volley.
Now let us consider if I were chasing you. I'm faster, I can maintain a constant point. You get to apply a level of transversal against my drones, but they still get to fire every four seconds while your drones STILL only get to shoot once every 20 seconds. My only danger is you snapping around overloading and attempting to get into scram range. If you get that scram, I'm a bad pilot. If I'm a good pilot, you just died. And even if I'm a bad pilot, I'm still doing 650 em drone dps against your 600 thermal in which I have t2 resists. |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
138
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:02:00 -
[963] - Quote
[quote=LaserzPewPew]Stuff, bragging, more stuff.quote]
Yes because handpicked 1v1's starting at a range that supports your point is how all balancing is done. |
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:50:00 -
[964] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote:Stuff, bragging, more stuff. Yes because handpicked 1v1's starting at a range that supports your point is how all balancing is done.
That's fine, the entire point was to show that medium drone damage can easily be mitigated heavily due to the faulty AI while sentries apply dps much more viably.
|
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
391
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 06:18:00 -
[965] - Quote
LaserzPewPew wrote: For comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750.
The Gila goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 14600000)) = 1808m/s burn speed. The Ishtar on the other hand only goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 16100000)) = 1663m/s burn speed. I don't see how the Ishtar is to kite this Gila. Oh, or is this the part where you explain the Gila had a small plate on it while the Ishtar had double Nanos? |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
138
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 06:25:00 -
[966] - Quote
LaserzPewPew wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote:Stuff, bragging, more stuff. Yes because handpicked 1v1's starting at a range that supports your point is how all balancing is done. That's fine, the entire point was to show that medium drone damage can easily be mitigated heavily due to the faulty AI while sentries apply dps much more reliably.
Sentries are stronger than mediums for the most part, although they do have their downsides. However showing an example of a brawler getting kited by a kiter is not really an indictment on medium drones. Drone AI does need a rework but I think for the purposes of brawling the mediums will do fine.
Until drone AI gets a rework, the Gila will be more or less limited to brawling when solo. Of course a great many ships have a bunch of options when paired with a dedicated heavy tackler. Of course I think we all hope non-sentries get stronger in terms of AI. |
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 06:46:00 -
[967] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote: For comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750.
The Gila goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 14600000)) = 1808m/s burn speed. The Ishtar on the other hand only goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 16100000)) = 1663m/s burn speed. I don't see how the Ishtar is to kite this Gila. Oh, or is this the part where you explain the Gila had a small plate on it while the Ishtar had double Nanos?
My mistake on the math. I haven't done all the speed calcs post patch, but I assumed nano/hyper on the ishtar and hyper but no nano on the gila. Regardless, again you are missing the point. The point is anything faster than 1500ms destroys drone AI and damage output of mediums.
Sidetracking the point isn't going to change the outcome. Medium drones will not be stronk. |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
391
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:03:00 -
[968] - Quote
LaserzPewPew wrote:Goldensaver wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote: For comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750.
The Gila goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 14600000)) = 1808m/s burn speed. The Ishtar on the other hand only goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 16100000)) = 1663m/s burn speed. I don't see how the Ishtar is to kite this Gila. Oh, or is this the part where you explain the Gila had a small plate on it while the Ishtar had double Nanos? My mistake on the math. I haven't done all the speed calcs post patch, but I assumed nano/hyper on the ishtar and hyper but no nano on the gila. Regardless, again you are missing the point. The point is anything faster than 1500ms destroys drone AI and damage output of mediums. Sidetracking the point isn't going to change the outcome. Medium drones will not be stronk. Agreed. This, of course, means that every Gila will be brawler fit with a scram and web, and will have a singleminded goal of getting into range of applying those. In situations where that can basically be guaranteed (FW plexes for example) the Gila will be able to use the ridiculous damage application of mediums on webbed and scrammed targets to burn them into the ground.
Of course, this also means that it will be very weak and suceptible to kiting. This is not something new to brawling ships though. This just has the unfortunate side effect of being a limitation imposed by poor mechanics and AI, and can't be blamed on the ship design itself. Perhaps this exact change is because they expect a decent drone fix within a reasonable amount of time and don't want to rebalance it separately from its peers to match their preferred final outcome.
And if not, it's still a decent change for those who have the ability to brawl (friendly tackle allowing you to get in range, forced warp ins, etc.) but does greatly cripple it for other uses. |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 08:40:00 -
[969] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote:Goldensaver wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote: For comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750.
The Gila goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 14600000)) = 1808m/s burn speed. The Ishtar on the other hand only goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 16100000)) = 1663m/s burn speed. I don't see how the Ishtar is to kite this Gila. Oh, or is this the part where you explain the Gila had a small plate on it while the Ishtar had double Nanos? My mistake on the math. I haven't done all the speed calcs post patch, but I assumed nano/hyper on the ishtar and hyper but no nano on the gila. Regardless, again you are missing the point. The point is anything faster than 1500ms destroys drone AI and damage output of mediums. Sidetracking the point isn't going to change the outcome. Medium drones will not be stronk. Agreed. This, of course, means that every Gila will be brawler fit with a scram and web, and will have a singleminded goal of getting into range of applying those. In situations where that can basically be guaranteed (FW plexes for example) the Gila will be able to use the ridiculous damage application of mediums on webbed and scrammed targets to burn them into the ground. Of course, this also means that it will be very weak and suceptible to kiting. This is not something new to brawling ships though. This just has the unfortunate side effect of being a limitation imposed by poor mechanics and AI, and can't be blamed on the ship design itself. Perhaps this exact change is because they expect a decent drone fix within a reasonable amount of time and don't want to rebalance it separately from its peers to match their preferred final outcome. And if not, it's still a decent change for those who have the ability to brawl (friendly tackle allowing you to get in range, forced warp ins, etc.) but does greatly cripple it for other uses.
what you are missing is that you can brawl right now if you want to, you can deploy 5 sentrys or even 5 heavys.... there is no need for this "rebalance" to use gilla for brawl, if you want to; yes, meds are better at tracking/speed that heavys, but that dosen't really count if your target is scrambled/webbed
as i already sayd, yes, the gilla stats looks very very nice on papper; but stats on paper are just that, stats on paper, and when you undock and try to apply that "huge" dps you will have a bad surprise...
i will take the gila as it is right now over this "rebalanced" gila anytime; the ship as it is right now is more versatile, and like allot of ppl already pointed the ishtar will simply be better ... |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 08:59:00 -
[970] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'm back! dded drone bay/bandwidth
Gila:
Medium drone powerhouse (remember the Medium Drone buff in the above linked Dev Blog) We expect a lot of feedback here, I'll do my best to answer questions as they come, but the basic thinking is that this is new and interesting, very powerful, and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better) ========================================================================================
GILA
Gallente Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)
Caldari Cruiser Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)
I look forward to the day you guys are successful in optimising the code/server so we can have properly representative drone ships back.... i.e. spewing out horde of drones (in this case, 12) rather than having to use this 'hacky' approach of stupendously large bonuses to GÇÿmimicGÇÖ it.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
|
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 09:19:00 -
[971] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'm back!
Gila:
Medium drone powerhouse (remember the Medium Drone buff in the above linked Dev Blog) We expect a lot of feedback here,I'll do my best to answer questions as they come, but the basic thinking is that this is new and interesting, very powerful, and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better)
Look forward to hearing from you o/
Hey Rise, if this is your best, i'm sorry but i think you must try harder; maibe i missed it, but i didn't see any answer from you regarding gila, and there are allot of concerns and allot of players saying that this "reballance" will cripple and already inferior ship; so, can we have some thoughts?
|
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
316
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 09:31:00 -
[972] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Look for the battleship post at the start of next week.
Dislike!
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Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 11:35:00 -
[973] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote:Goldensaver wrote:LaserzPewPew wrote: For comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750.
The Gila goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 14600000)) = 1808m/s burn speed. The Ishtar on the other hand only goes (195 * 1.25) * (1 + (5.00 * 1.25) * (15000000 / 16100000)) = 1663m/s burn speed. I don't see how the Ishtar is to kite this Gila. Oh, or is this the part where you explain the Gila had a small plate on it while the Ishtar had double Nanos? My mistake on the math. I haven't done all the speed calcs post patch, but I assumed nano/hyper on the ishtar and hyper but no nano on the gila. Regardless, again you are missing the point. The point is anything faster than 1500ms destroys drone AI and damage output of mediums. Sidetracking the point isn't going to change the outcome. Medium drones will not be stronk. Agreed. This, of course, means that every Gila will be brawler fit with a scram and web, and will have a singleminded goal of getting into range of applying those. In situations where that can basically be guaranteed (FW plexes for example) the Gila will be able to use the ridiculous damage application of mediums on webbed and scrammed targets to burn them into the ground. Of course, this also means that it will be very weak and suceptible to kiting. This is not something new to brawling ships though. This just has the unfortunate side effect of being a limitation imposed by poor mechanics and AI, and can't be blamed on the ship design itself. Perhaps this exact change is because they expect a decent drone fix within a reasonable amount of time and don't want to rebalance it separately from its peers to match their preferred final outcome. And if not, it's still a decent change for those who have the ability to brawl (friendly tackle allowing you to get in range, forced warp ins, etc.) but does greatly cripple it for other uses. LUV IT, I can now have a specialized pirate cruiser capable of killing frigates and dessies in FW plexes, as long as you have "friendly tackle".. Because simply put, there is nothing like the thrill of 10 guys racing each other into a plex to kill a tackled frigate.
The Gila will fit nicely into a CCP Rise quote in another thread - "for those who don't like it there are alternatives" Only problem with that attitude is - if this trend of niche limited role ships and modules keeps going at the rate it is, very soon the alternatives will also become those you are looking for alternatives to.
|
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
173
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 13:19:00 -
[974] - Quote
LaserzPewPew wrote:Hammerheads will never catch up to an interceptor. Period. Valks perhaps with a drone nav bringing it up to about 5kms- the speed of a ceptor. Second, a hammerhead will turn it's mwd off for 10 seconds then it will have to mwd back into range before it fires again to fall back out. If your hammerheads are moving at 2.5kms and your target is moving at 1.5kms (the slowest t1 cruiser without nanos), your hammerheads will have to burn for 10 seconds after reactivating it's mwd for a total of 20 seconds of not firing. If the target is moving at 2kms, (speed of a caracal), you are looking at 30 seconds in between volleys. Now try applying dps to a t2 cruiser who can point and mwd cap stable @2kms+. Simply, you can't. You will be pointed while your tank is being chunked away. Your drones will be doing less than 20% of their paperdoll damage and you will be hopelessly shooting light missiles hoping for intervention. Note: Valkaries improve this somewhat, but their dps is much reduced so the math still stands. Wall of text incoming. TLDR: Gila loses. Just to flaunt and to show I'm not full of crap, you can start by reading this. http://themittani.com/features/lifestyles-blaptastic-laserzpewpewFor comparison, let's say I'm in an ishtar and you have choice drones. I go 1950m/s with a mwd on, you go 1750. I have a 50% reduction to sig radius with mwd, you do not. You begin to chase me, I drop curators and burn directly away from you and keep you pointed. You drop whatever medium drones you want and send them out. My curators begin applying 650 dps while your mediums aren't even in range yet. I hope you packed EM resist or you are going to have a bad time. Your drones get to take a shot, then they fall behind. Over the twenty seconds you wait for your drones to catch up to take another shot, my curators fire 5 more times applying ~13000 ehp of damage. You realize you need to apply transversal and break away, I call, overheat my point and turn to match your direction. Your mediums get to take another shot, but since you are burning lateral from my drones, I get to also so your drones fall behind again. Your large sig radius and my drone tracking bonuses allow my curators to hit the majority of the time over the next five strikes. As your ~36kehp of shield depletes, your drones get one last volley. Now let us consider if I were chasing you. I'm faster, I can maintain a constant point. You get to apply a level of transversal against my drones, but they still get to fire every four seconds while your drones STILL only get to shoot once every 20 seconds. My only danger is you snapping around overloading and attempting to get into scram range. If you get that scram, I'm a bad pilot. If I'm a good pilot, you just died. And even if I'm a bad pilot, I'm still doing 650 em drone dps against your 600 thermal in which I have t2 resists. Not to say apples and oranges, gila and ishtar, but if you are going to choose one over the other, it's a pretty bland pick. One is able to utilize all drones, the other is pigeonholed into a type that can be easily mitigated.
I don't really disagree with this, but you're talking about sentry drones here. I admitted the lack of sentry drones was an issue. However, you also said previously that the Gila's new mediums are worse than heavy drones, which is just ridiculous.
What you're really saying here is "all drones except sentry drones suck" |
Endo Saissore
Bananas Never Did Me Dirty
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 14:42:00 -
[975] - Quote
Most of the changes are exciting but I'm seeing a problem with the overall theme. Aren't pirate ships suppose to be more versatile than tech 2 ships? As it stands I know the phantasm will definitely have an afterburner, the Gila will definitely be using medium drones, and the Cynabal will definitely be using autocannons as opposed to artillery fit. The ships haven't even hit SiSi and their fitting options are being squandered :/ |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
621
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 14:56:00 -
[976] - Quote
Endo Saissore wrote:Most of the changes are exciting but I'm seeing a problem with the overall theme. Aren't pirate ships suppose to be more versatile than tech 2 ships? As it stands I know the phantasm will definitely have an afterburner, the Gila will definitely be using medium drones, and the Cynabal will definitely be using autocannons as opposed to artillery fit. The ships haven't even hit SiSi and their fitting options are being squandered :/
that's not the useful kind of versatility, unless you're talking about mobile depots. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
736
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 15:39:00 -
[977] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Endo Saissore wrote:Most of the changes are exciting but I'm seeing a problem with the overall theme. Aren't pirate ships suppose to be more versatile than tech 2 ships? As it stands I know the phantasm will definitely have an afterburner, the Gila will definitely be using medium drones, and the Cynabal will definitely be using autocannons as opposed to artillery fit. The ships haven't even hit SiSi and their fitting options are being squandered :/ that's not the useful kind of versatility, unless you're talking about mobile depots.
well they are trying too give them all a uniqueness .. like the serpentis.. at the end of the day you already have Navy for what you want .. these are navy with a twist ... we want uniqueness would be nice if we got unique models too go with them .. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Endo Saissore
Bananas Never Did Me Dirty
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 15:51:00 -
[978] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Endo Saissore wrote:Most of the changes are exciting but I'm seeing a problem with the overall theme. Aren't pirate ships suppose to be more versatile than tech 2 ships? As it stands I know the phantasm will definitely have an afterburner, the Gila will definitely be using medium drones, and the Cynabal will definitely be using autocannons as opposed to artillery fit. The ships haven't even hit SiSi and their fitting options are being squandered :/ that's not the useful kind of versatility, unless you're talking about mobile depots. well they are trying too give them all a uniqueness .. like the serpentis.. at the end of the day you already have Navy for what you want .. these are navy with a twist ... we want uniqueness would be nice if we got unique models too go with them ..
Fair enough. Dont get me wrong, I'm excited for these changes (excluding the cynabal. That one has a lackluster uniqueness). I was just thinking back to the Fanfest where they said they wanted to make pirate ships more versatile instead of pigeon holing them into a role. I would like more unique hulls as well :) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
736
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 15:54:00 -
[979] - Quote
well they said that about T3's .. they should be versatility enshrined ... but with pirate they said improvement over T1 but with a twist Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:08:00 -
[980] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:When are we getting the battleship proposals. I thought they would be out by today at the latest... you should pretty much already know what they're going to be. i dont think so, i hardly think the nightmare is going to get an AB bonus, it would just be a waste, & what size drones are going to be launched from the rattlesnake? Personally id like to see the rattlesnake get a +1 deployed drone per level skill medium drones & a 200% buff to drone damage. but i know that will never happen.
would have preferred a +1 drone bonus instead of that 500% bonus, its a unique bonus already for a non capital ship (the guardian vexor is the only subcap with that bonus), but CCP seems to agree in going over the supposed chart and give pirate ships an specialized role, much as T2, when they're supposed to be an upgrade above the other T1 ships, and as such have a general aplication..... |
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Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:19:00 -
[981] - Quote
gascanu wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I'm back!
Gila:
Medium drone powerhouse (remember the Medium Drone buff in the above linked Dev Blog) We expect a lot of feedback here,I'll do my best to answer questions as they come, but the basic thinking is that this is new and interesting, very powerful, and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better)
Look forward to hearing from you o/ Hey Rise, if this is your best, i'm sorry but i think you must try harder; maibe i missed it, but i didn't see any answer from you regarding gila, and there are allot of concerns and allot of players saying that this "reballance" will cripple and already inferior ship; so, can we have some thoughts?
the Gurista line could have been based more in the rattlesnake instead of having to force in having to not be the Ishtar, the Gila and the Worm could have enjoyed an increase in shield capacity along with the shield resist bonus of the rattlesnake....
these rebalanced Guristas are now Gallente disguised as Caldari, Hybrid damage type bonuses for missiles, bandwidth cut for an unnecessary drone bonus.....
basically is a Gallente ship which shield tanks, while controlling only 2 drones that count as 8 but the bonus only applies to a single drone size, with a lack of cargohold and its missiles bonused to do only Kin/Therm........
the Gila basically has been redesigned for fleet combat, if a solo Gila pilot gets tackled by frigates, it will just burn to ashes without how to defense.
if you're gonna shove the bad drone bonus at least keep the missile damage bonus as a general for all the missile damage types, not just Kin and Therm, so the ship at least can defend effectively in case its supposed "overpowered" drones cannot track a **** of the enemy......(specially now that everyone flies ceptors).... |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
877
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:44:00 -
[982] - Quote
Endo Saissore wrote:Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Endo Saissore wrote:Most of the changes are exciting but I'm seeing a problem with the overall theme. Aren't pirate ships suppose to be more versatile than tech 2 ships? As it stands I know the phantasm will definitely have an afterburner, the Gila will definitely be using medium drones, and the Cynabal will definitely be using autocannons as opposed to artillery fit. The ships haven't even hit SiSi and their fitting options are being squandered :/ that's not the useful kind of versatility, unless you're talking about mobile depots. well they are trying too give them all a uniqueness .. like the serpentis.. at the end of the day you already have Navy for what you want .. these are navy with a twist ... we want uniqueness would be nice if we got unique models too go with them .. Fair enough. Dont get me wrong, I'm excited for these changes (excluding the cynabal. That one has a lackluster uniqueness). I was just thinking back to the Fanfest where they said they wanted to make pirate ships more versatile instead of pigeon holing them into a role. I would like more unique hulls as well :)
They just pigeonhole'd the living **** out of the Gila. |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
335
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:46:00 -
[983] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hexatron Ormand wrote:So there are the cruisers! Waited for them quite some time. Next thing i am looking forward to is the posting about the battleships. Going to give these a few days and hopefully post the BS near the end of the week.
This will be interesting to see, I hope that I can make some contributions to them. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:56:00 -
[984] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Endo Saissore wrote:Most of the changes are exciting but I'm seeing a problem with the overall theme. Aren't pirate ships suppose to be more versatile than tech 2 ships? As it stands I know the phantasm will definitely have an afterburner, the Gila will definitely be using medium drones, and the Cynabal will definitely be using autocannons as opposed to artillery fit. The ships haven't even hit SiSi and their fitting options are being squandered :/ that's not the useful kind of versatility, unless you're talking about mobile depots. well they are trying too give them all a uniqueness .. like the serpentis.. at the end of the day you already have Navy for what you want .. these are navy with a twist ... we want uniqueness would be nice if we got unique models too go with them ..
Thats what doesn't make sense. The guristas are ALREADY unique, being the only shield-tanked missile and drone boats in the game.
We didn't spend 3 years maxing out the skills to fly a rattlesnake for you incompetent devs to change them to be "new and exciting".
Please, pull your head out of your assholes before you make a lot of people angry.
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
621
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:58:00 -
[985] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:well they said that about T3's .. they should be versatility enshrined ... but with pirate they said improvement over T1 but with a twist
I think CCP's idea of versatility is stuff with lots of utility slots, dronebays and possibly range versatility. so for example a sacrilege is versatile while a zealot isn't. I don't think it's about how many possible setups there are. I don't think it really provides a way to fix T3s though, and I don't think these pirate ships are about versatility either. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:10:00 -
[986] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: CCP Rise quote in another thread - "for those who don't like it there are alternatives"
If this is for real, that is disgusting. We spend 3 years maxing out skills to play a ship how we want to play it and now you force us into an extremely niche playstyle that many Gila/Rattlesnake have no interest in?
**** you, incompetent devs. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:16:00 -
[987] - Quote
gascanu wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I'm back!
Gila:
Medium drone powerhouse (remember the Medium Drone buff in the above linked Dev Blog) We expect a lot of feedback here,I'll do my best to answer questions as they come, but the basic thinking is that this is new and interesting, very powerful, and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better)
Look forward to hearing from you o/ Hey Rise, if this is your best, i'm sorry but i think you must try harder; maibe i missed it, but i didn't see any answer from you regarding gila, and there are allot of concerns and allot of players saying that this "reballance" will cripple and already inferior ship; so, can we have some thoughts?
Apparently the plan is to just going to ignore all the outcry over the Gila and Guristas and push it through in leu of some ridiculous, uncompromising vision on the part of some ******* who doesn't understand the game and is ignorant of all the people he is shitting on.
The only people who think these changes to Guristas are interesting or exciting are the people who aren't going to be flying them. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
621
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:19:00 -
[988] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Apparently the plan is to just going to ignore all the outcry over the Gila and Guristas and push it through in leu of some ridiculous, uncompromising vision on the part of some ******* who doesn't understand the game and is ignorant all the people he is shitting on.
The only people who think these changes to Guristas are interesting or exciting are the people who aren't going to be flying them.
if all goes as planned, they'll listen to your outcry, then decide that it's stupid and disregard it. your complaints are meant to actually be valid if they're to have an effect. |
Endo Saissore
Bananas Never Did Me Dirty
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:52:00 -
[989] - Quote
The Cynabal really needs a new niche. Having a warp speed one class below is not worth the price tag. It should either have 150% warp speed increase or something else.
What if it had a role bonus of reaching its top speed instantly? As soon as the prop mod is activated you are at top speed, or at least very close to it? |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:56:00 -
[990] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote:
Apparently the plan is to just going to ignore all the outcry over the Gila and Guristas and push it through in leu of some ridiculous, uncompromising vision on the part of some ******* who doesn't understand the game and is ignorant all the people he is shitting on.
The only people who think these changes to Guristas are interesting or exciting are the people who aren't going to be flying them.
if all goes as planned, they'll listen to your outcry, then decide that it's stupid and disregard it. your complaints are meant to actually be valid if they're to have an effect.
tell me why i'm wrong instead of just making stupid, baseless statements. you are like a child getting angry because you are too dumb to form a proper argument. |
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