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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kaidu Kahn
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
28
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
A story was recently relayed to me that I found interesting and actually quite devious if true. So I figured I would share it with you.
As with most stories told to me by Eve players I take them with a grain of salt and a generous helping of doubt, but here it is as told to me. I would ask you if the mechanics as described to me are accurate because I have personally never tested nor experienced a scenario such as this.
Apparently an unnamed corp admitted a relatively new player. He seemed to have a good background. Nothing really stood out. So he was admitted.
After being in the corp for a few weeks doing missions and developing a relationship with his new corpmates he asked them if they wanted to help him crank out some Lvl 4 missions for standingds gain. They assembled 8 additional members to form up with his fleet.
The other older and more experienced members of course were in their faction fitted missionmobiles so it didn't take long to do a mission or two. The new member said he wanted to help more in the mission (he was only flying a cruiser) and play around with some more drones. He requested that each member assign him 1 drone for assistance. 7 of the 8 agreed and would deploy and assign him 1 drone. The 8th was without any drones so he was unable to help.
On the next mission once the fleet hit grid, deployed and started to battle the mayhem started. An additional player (trial) joined fleet and warped to the mission area, unnoticed by other fleet members. Upon entering the mission area, dropped fleet. At that point the new member apparently targeted and opend fire upon (trial), ignoring all warnings. This triggered massive CONCORDOKKEN. Not 1 cruiser but 1 cruiser + 7 mission pimpmobiles gone. 50+ Billion ISK *POOF*. Wtf? He said the assisted drones also fired upon (trial) causing their owners to draw Concord's wrath.
One could have almost thought the new player was a moron until several seconds after the explosions 2 more (trial) warped on grid and started scooping and looting all the wrecks of faction mods. Then they warped back to the station. The 8th member who still survived warped out ASAP not knowing what was going on.
The new player dropped corp and logged. They haven't seen him log since and estimate he got off with 20+ Bil in loot. The moral of the story as told to me was, don't assign drones to anyone unless you REALLY trust them.
So there it is, as told to me. True or false? You be the judge. Would an assisted drome potentially draw the wrath of Concord back to the drones owner?
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5013
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't know, to be honest. But really hope that story is true.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1204
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I don't know, to be honest. But really hope that story is true. Mr Epeen Assuming their safeties were in green, I actually hope it's not true.
If their safeties were on red, all is good, they got scammed by their own choice. If they were on green that's a fault game mechanic, and they should be reimbursed.
You shouldn't have to study books as thick as law books to work out if an action with get you concorded. It should be clear. And safety on green or yellow should block any action that can get you concorded. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
387
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hm.
Pretty ingenious actually. A way around safety mechanisms... The only question is, why release this info to the public..
EDIT - green safety argument - I would say green or not does not matter, as you give your drones away to someone else, so its their actions, not yours, but since youre the owner - you pay the price. Like, lend your gun to a mall shooter - bet your arse you going to be called accessory to murder. |
ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1813
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Posted - 2014.04.04 03:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's genius. Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1732
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Posted - 2014.04.04 03:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
If safeties were green, petition it because its a bug. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose.
"You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1733
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Posted - 2014.04.04 03:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Hm.
Pretty ingenious actually. A way around safety mechanisms... The only question is, why release this info to the public..
EDIT - green safety argument - I would say green or not does not matter, as you give your drones away to someone else, so its their actions, not yours, but since youre the owner - you pay the price. Like, lend your gun to a mall shooter - bet your arse you going to be called accessory to murder.
They took out the drone aggression bug on the MTU's that allowed you to get aggression flagged with another player. Getting CONCORDED with your safety on green, if it happens this way, will not be allowed to stay. Petition it, get your stuff back, and wait for incoming patch. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose.
"You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4390
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Posted - 2014.04.04 03:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Hm.
Pretty ingenious actually. A way around safety mechanisms... The only question is, why release this info to the public..
EDIT - green safety argument - I would say green or not does not matter, as you give your drones away to someone else, so its their actions, not yours, but since youre the owner - you pay the price. Like, lend your gun to a mall shooter - bet your arse you going to be called accessory to murder. They took out the drone aggression bug on the MTU's that allowed you to get aggression flagged with another player. Getting CONCORDED with your safety on green, if it happens this way, will not be allowed to stay. Petition it, get your stuff back, and wait for incoming patch.
"bug". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
3522
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Posted - 2014.04.04 03:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah was just about to say.
If you are assisting somebody and your safety is on green your ships will stop assisting people with Drones/RR the minute the person you assist goes criminal.
However if they are on red.. well sucks to be you. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
Lugia3
Emerald Inc. Easily Excited
919
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Posted - 2014.04.04 05:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaidu Kahn wrote:1 cruiser + 7 mission pimpmobiles gone. 50+ Billion ISK *POOF*.
Watchlisted. We will be seeing you soon. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
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Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
972
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Posted - 2014.04.04 05:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
False. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3030
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Posted - 2014.04.04 05:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Hm.
Pretty ingenious actually. A way around safety mechanisms... The only question is, why release this info to the public..
EDIT - green safety argument - I would say green or not does not matter, as you give your drones away to someone else, so its their actions, not yours, but since youre the owner - you pay the price. Like, lend your gun to a mall shooter - bet your arse you going to be called accessory to murder.
OMG is it not possible to have a conversation about pixel spaceships without someone saying "But if a man breaks into my house then you get to shoot his mum in real life"
Its not life its a video game ffs
If its broke, it will be fixed
IF its an exploit, petition it
If its neither, well played, Death to all Scanners *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Gosti Kahanid
GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC.
45
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Posted - 2014.04.04 09:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Assisted Drones should never engage a target which would create a LE with the owner. That is the reason why pirates are complaining that assist doesn-¦t work in lowsec.
If this story is true and it worked like that, then it is a bug which should be reported |
Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
203
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:Assisted Drones should never engage a target which would create a LE with the owner. That is the reason why pirates are complaining that assist doesn-¦t work in lowsec.
If this story is true and it worked like that, then it is a bug which should be reported
Thanks you for enlightening me! You have no idea how many times I have tried to assign drones to the FC in low sec while flying guardian, just to get on no kills at all. Never understood what the fuzz with assist was about when it never worked! |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry
1167
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kaidu Kahn wrote: The new player dropped corp and logged. They haven't seen him log since and estimate he got off with 20+ Bil in loot. The moral of the story as told to me was, don't assign drones to anyone unless you REALLY trust them.
It actually sounds like a well thought out and superbly executed Trap / AWOX. While i feel for the corp, I do have to tip my hat to the people who performed this act.
I would say the moral of this story is don't go missioning in pimp-mobiles!
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Minerva Bian
MJXB Holdings
8
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Posted - 2014.04.04 11:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
If it worked like that with assisted drones ignoring their owners' green safety settings there'd be lots of stories of mass faction battleship concordokken from incursion awoxing. There aren't, so it's most likely just an urban legend. |
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CCP Lebowski
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
71
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Posted - 2014.04.04 15:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hey folks,
This didn't seem right to me, so I've done some investigating, and happily have been unable to reproduce this issue. Of course, if anyone comes across this themselves and can provide more specifics as to the date and time it occurred then I can look into it further, but unless that happens I'm more than happy to say that this is simply quite a nice little urban legend.
For future reference (Or for anyone interested in how the drone assist mechanics are currently designed), the general rule is that combat drones will only consider characters that are personally legal targets for their owner when deciding to instigate an unforced attack. Targets that are not a personally legal target, or targets that are merely 'globally legal' such as outlaws, suspects and criminals will never be valid unforced targets.
TL:DR - A drone will not trigger a limited engagement or criminal/suspect flag, unless explicitly instructed to engage a target. (This only applies in high/low sec)
I hope this clears things up! CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/ccp_lebowski |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4649
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Posted - 2014.04.04 16:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well the tale of "aggro fu" is believable seeing that a lot of players mistake that sort of gaming as PVP.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
120
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Posted - 2014.04.04 16:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mom! MOM! I spotted another one who doesn't know what PvP means!! That's two in a day! WOW! |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
66
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Posted - 2014.04.04 16:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey folks,
This didn't seem right to me, so I've done some investigating, and happily have been unable to reproduce this issue. Of course, if anyone comes across this themselves and can provide more specifics as to the date and time it occurred then I can look into it further, but unless that happens I'm more than happy to say that this is simply quite a nice little urban legend.
For future reference (Or for anyone interested in how the drone assist mechanics are currently designed), the general rule is that combat drones will only consider characters that are personally legal targets for their owner when deciding to instigate an unforced attack. Targets that are not a personally legal target, or targets that are merely 'globally legal' such as outlaws, suspects and criminals will never be valid unforced targets.
TL:DR - A drone will not trigger a limited engagement or criminal/suspect flag, unless explicitly instructed to engage a target. (This only applies in high/low sec)
I hope this clears things up!
Because we all know there are no, and never have been, bugs in the drone AI code... Vacuums suck. |
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
387
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Posted - 2014.04.04 18:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey folks,
This didn't seem right to me, so I've done some investigating, and happily have been unable to reproduce this issue. Of course, if anyone comes across this themselves and can provide more specifics as to the date and time it occurred then I can look into it further, but unless that happens I'm more than happy to say that this is simply quite a nice little urban legend.
For future reference (Or for anyone interested in how the drone assist mechanics are currently designed), the general rule is that combat drones will only consider characters that are personally legal targets for their owner when deciding to instigate an unforced attack. Targets that are not a personally legal target, or targets that are merely 'globally legal' such as outlaws, suspects and criminals will never be valid unforced targets.
TL:DR - A drone will not trigger a limited engagement or criminal/suspect flag, unless explicitly instructed to engage a target. (This only applies in high/low sec)
I hope this clears things up! Would the person that the drones are set to assist starting a duel before affect the interaction? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
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CCP Lebowski
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2014.04.04 18:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Would the person that the drones are set to assist starting a duel before affect the interaction? The drones will only consider engagements between their owner and the target, and not the person they are assisting, so no, this wouldn't make any difference to the interaction.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/ccp_lebowski |
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Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
433
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Posted - 2014.04.04 23:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just to add a quick note, a lot of people are saying 'if you get CONCORDed with green safeties, petition it." That should say "if you get CONCORDed and your safety isn't red, petition it." The only way you can get CONCORDed is if you are in hi sec with red safeties. Yellow safeties prevent you from being CONCORDed. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
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Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2987
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Posted - 2014.04.05 01:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
You've been fed the Eve equivalent of a story told by a fisherman. It gets believed and passed around as urban space legend, because most people in those highsec "we do everything!" corps don't understand why it doesn't work.
I still see unironic corp bulletins telling people to set drones to passive or you might get concorded. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Luscius Uta
74
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Posted - 2014.04.05 11:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
If this story were serious, then drone assist would work in lowsec. So it's just another attempt to scare the highsec pubbies. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2461
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Posted - 2014.04.06 01:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
The troll is strong with this one.
OP has succeeded in causing several people to waste time trying to reproduce this.
Well played, GF, etc. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Teochoilae
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.06 08:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Mom! MOM! I spotted another one who doesn't know what PvP means!! That's two in a day! WOW!
Well said! |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
166
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Posted - 2014.04.06 09:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey folks,
This didn't seem right to me, so I've done some investigating, and happily have been unable to reproduce this issue. Of course, if anyone comes across this themselves and can provide more specifics as to the date and time it occurred then I can look into it further, but unless that happens I'm more than happy to say that this is simply quite a nice little urban legend.
For future reference (Or for anyone interested in how the drone assist mechanics are currently designed), the general rule is that combat drones will only consider characters that are personally legal targets for their owner when deciding to instigate an unforced attack. Targets that are not a personally legal target, or targets that are merely 'globally legal' such as outlaws, suspects and criminals will never be valid unforced targets.
TL:DR - A drone will not trigger a limited engagement or criminal/suspect flag, unless explicitly instructed to engage a target. (This only applies in high/low sec)
I hope this clears things up!
This isn't true.
Player A deploys a MTU and then Garde II's
Player B gains a suspect flag by shooting Player A's MTU.
Player A's drones automatically (if set to "aggressive) engage Player B.
Limited Engagement begins.
Player A's drones have instigated an unforced attack against a "globally legal" target with a suspect flag without explict instruction to do so. TSCA - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - POS Deployment Corp Sale/Boosting |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1214
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Posted - 2014.04.06 09:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
This isn't true.
Player A deploys a MTU and then Garde II's
Player B gains a suspect flag by shooting Player A's MTU.
Player A's drones automatically (if set to "aggressive) engage Player B.
Limited Engagement begins.
Player A's drones have instigated an unforced attack against a "globally legal" target with a suspect flag without explict instruction to do so.
This behaviour should no longer exist since a patch was put in place to stop it.
If you can replicate it on the live server currently, then bug report it and message Lebowski about it as well. |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
166
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Posted - 2014.04.06 09:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Imiarr Timshae wrote:
This isn't true.
Player A deploys a MTU and then Garde II's
Player B gains a suspect flag by shooting Player A's MTU.
Player A's drones automatically (if set to "aggressive) engage Player B.
Limited Engagement begins.
Player A's drones have instigated an unforced attack against a "globally legal" target with a suspect flag without explict instruction to do so.
This behaviour should no longer exist since a patch was put in place to stop it. If you can replicate it on the live server currently, then bug report it and message Lebowski about it as well.
I was not up to date! Do you have a link to the patch notes/rough estimation of when this was patched out?
I retract my statement aimed at Lebowski as I have become enlightened :) TSCA - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - POS Deployment Corp Sale/Boosting |
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