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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Potions Master
GearBunny
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 08:08:00 -
[1951] - Quote
Kiyat, this change doesn't force you to move anywhere. If anything, it gives even more options on how to utilize resources exactly where you are at. Sure, it does require some extra training and a different way of thinking... and perhaps some working on faction standings, but there's going to be a fair bit more variety to the miner/producer way of living.
The only thing I worry about is how the market will speculate itself in the weeks leading up to the expansion... |
Freeism Saurfang
Rotten Kimchi Squadron Brothers of Tangra
5
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Posted - 2014.04.07 09:01:00 -
[1952] - Quote
Freeism Saurfang wrote:Last one. Check this first. Ore Compression RatioI think Dev concentrate on mineral compression ratio only and forgot something important. When you do compression, you think output volume is smaller than input volume. But in case of Veldspar, Scordite and Spodumain, output volume is larger than input. Well, Dev, you should change the name of "Compressed Veldspar" to "Expanded Veldspar"
Last time, I calculated Mineral Compression Ratio with perfect reprocessing yield.
But Reprocessing Yield nurfed to 72.358%. Then, Mineral Compression Ration is nurfed too.
Re-Calculated Mineral Compression Ratio
as you can see, Mineral Compression Ratio is 19 ~ 22.
However, when we use modules to compress minerals,
Compression ratio is 28 ~ 32.
Most two module to compress minerals
Dev told "tweaking the compressed ore volumes to make it competitive with current modules like the 425mm Railgun I for instance" in their thread
But Compressed and Expanded Ores are loosing their comtetity.
Do you really think it's good ways to favor compression? I think not.
Answer me, DEV! Answer ME!
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3272
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Posted - 2014.04.07 09:54:00 -
[1953] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:We could still use gas compression
Interesting, this totally slipped my mind. I'll have a look if that is viable and can be done for some time after summer. No promises though |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
164
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Posted - 2014.04.07 10:05:00 -
[1954] - Quote
Again, scrap that table. Compression with ore quantities like they a currently is no longer planned. A Batch (100 units) of an ore will be used to compress. You also should consider that there's options to reprocess with more than 72.358% yield, even in highsec. In his example, CCP Ytterbium stated a compression ratio of 24 AFTER reprocessing with the maximum achievable yield after the change. Assuming that factor of 24 for all ores (I'm still waiting for CCP Ytterbium to confirm this) will result in volumes and quantities shown in this table.
Edit: And don't forget that compression will happen with the (right) click of a mouse. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11036
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Posted - 2014.04.07 10:44:00 -
[1955] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: *warms up bullshit engines*
the capsuleers discovered a new way to increase ore yield but it uses caustic chemicals and/or dangerous, fatal techniques
fortunately capsuleers are immortal so they don't give a crap but the empires are like "naw dude naw"
So a 1% chance every ten thousand ore you refine that your clone dies, you loose your implants and you have to upgrade a new clone? Sounds fair on that front. Also known as BS failed. The stations aren't run by Capsuleers, they are owned by Capsuleers, they are run by normal people. The simple fact is that after the years & years of Null screaming how they couldn't compete because they had a disadvantage, which most sensible high sec players agreed with them on, now that they have the advantage they are trying to put the boot down on high sec, rather than acknowledging that it is unfair for any space to have such an advantage in basic refining.
Why would we refine this stuff?
We have station workers for that.
Simple fact is that people finally have a reason to leave high sec for this. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11036
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Posted - 2014.04.07 10:46:00 -
[1956] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:We could still use gas compression Interesting, this totally slipped my mind. I'll have a look if that is viable and can be done for some time after summer. No promises though
How about a badger LPG tanker?
You could give it a bonus like, say, if its ganked with a full load of gas it explodes and kills everything around it Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2014.04.07 12:43:00 -
[1957] - Quote
Kijyat wrote: All these devs "changes" is another smokescreen geared to push more players out of hi sec. Everything they listed are single issues that can be fixed on a per item basis. They are just packaged together to give substance to their newest ploy.
Why does CCP want players out of hi sec? It's a business issue. Plainly, the largest percentage of players exist outside hi sec and want more players to kill. They complain to CCP about a lack of players to kill or always killing the same players and point to hi sec. By "convincing" players to leave hi sec through nerfs and packaged illogic (the golden nullsec carrot), CCP satisfies the largest percentage need by providing them more players to kill. This leads to the largest percentage to keep paying CCP.
In my view, players are already "rewarded" for establishing themselves outside hi sec. Better ores, better isk/lp missions, better sites, can build their own POS/better industry build options and best yet, kill another player without being Concorded. Existing outside hi sec takes a lot of skill, specialization, teamwork, and dedication for a player to live each day killing other players while avoiding getting podded themselves, but none of that has anything to do with refining.
If it's so difficult for pvp players to find targets in null, then why does CCP put in the hot drop and allow afk cloaking?
Afk cloaking pretty much kills any chance whatsoever to even sniff a target, as the targets don't know if you have the ability to hot drop. Nobody is going to be dumb enough to stay on your radar to find out if you do either, so they smartly cloak /station up. If someone cannot be bothered to click on some random boxes every 30 min or so, they should be removed from the game. Obviously, they aren't playing, simply using a mechanics exploit to influence the game.
If pvp'ers really want pvp, they show up in pvp ships. Cruisers, Frigs, BC, etc. Not cloaky stealthers. Cloaky stealthers are looking for one thing, and one thing only - easy ganks. Easy ganks is bascially pvp without risk. Hard to respect that, which is why ALL my ratting ships use cloaks. If we get to the point where that gets nerfed I am definitely done with this game.
Fix the real problem CCP. Remove afk cloaking. You don't allow bot mining/ratting, why would you allow afk cloaking?
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Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2831
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Posted - 2014.04.07 13:09:00 -
[1958] - Quote
Electra GaafCramo wrote:Btw, any logic behind those pesky 0.0 stations having reprocessing technology superior to the empires?
GG CCP....your game was once fun, back when you realized that this game is more than a battle between a handfull of alliances. yep it's totally contradictory to all that fluff about the capsuleers being incredibly incredibly rich resourceful ambitous and powerful, as gods to mortal humans, augmentative science brought to its greatest extreme allowing pursuit of unimaginable wealth, threatening the stability of the four empires |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
350
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:10:00 -
[1959] - Quote
Muffet McStrudel wrote: If it's so difficult for pvp players to find targets in null, then why does CCP put in the hot drop and allow afk cloaking?
Afk cloaking pretty much kills any chance whatsoever to even sniff a target, as the targets don't know if you have the ability to hot drop. Nobody is going to be dumb enough to stay on your radar to find out if you do either, so they smartly cloak /station up. If someone cannot be bothered to click on some random boxes every 30 min or so, they should be removed from the game. Obviously, they aren't playing, simply using a mechanics exploit to influence the game.
If pvp'ers really want pvp, they show up in pvp ships. Cruisers, Frigs, BC, etc. Not cloaky stealthers. Cloaky stealthers are looking for one thing, and one thing only - easy ganks. Easy ganks is bascially pvp without risk. Hard to respect that, which is why ALL my ratting ships use cloaks. If we get to the point where that gets nerfed I am definitely done with this game.
Fix the real problem CCP. Remove afk cloaking. You don't allow bot mining/ratting, why would you allow afk cloaking?
whooeee false equivalency ahoy
truly the best thread to whine about afk cloaking |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
617
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:34:00 -
[1960] - Quote
Muffet McStrudel wrote: If it's so difficult for pvp players to find targets in null, then why does CCP put in the hot drop and allow afk cloaking?
Afk cloaking pretty much kills any chance whatsoever to even sniff a target, as the targets don't know if you have the ability to hot drop. Nobody is going to be dumb enough to stay on your radar to find out if you do either, so they smartly cloak /station up. If someone cannot be bothered to click on some random boxes every 30 min or so, they should be removed from the game. Obviously, they aren't playing, simply using a mechanics exploit to influence the game.
If pvp'ers really want pvp, they show up in pvp ships. Cruisers, Frigs, BC, etc. Not cloaky stealthers. Cloaky stealthers are looking for one thing, and one thing only - easy ganks. Easy ganks is bascially pvp without risk. Hard to respect that, which is why ALL my ratting ships use cloaks. If we get to the point where that gets nerfed I am definitely done with this game.
Fix the real problem CCP. Remove afk cloaking. You don't allow bot mining/ratting, why would you allow afk cloaking?
Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. Here we go!
Show me on the Raven where the bad afk cloaker touched you.
off topic much?
umad?
An Afk cloaker never killed anyone. It's the at-keyboard players you have to worry about.
You realize a cloak on your ratting ship increases locktime and adds a sensor recalibration delay, right? Your local non-afk cloaker in his bomber will be very happy when he tackles you because it will take about a full minute before you can even lock him.
/sperg
On-topic follows:
For those complaining about nulsec having an advantage, there are two things of which I want to remind you: risk vs reward, and the fact that it costs money to move stuff from hisec to nulsec. Jump freighters don't fuel themselves you know. Free Ripley Weaver! |
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
621
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:32:00 -
[1961] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Update:
- Unrefined Alchemy materials have been boosted by 81.81% next to TQ values to account for the 45% reprocessing nerf (since it's neither ore and ice, it doesn't benefit from reprocessing skills, only scrapmetal processing)
- Plan for Minmatar outpost to give 52% reprocessing rate by default, and 54% when upgraded to tier 1. Other values are unchanged.
- We're still investigating and pushing for Starbase Reprocessing skills to take player reprocessing skills into account. More on that when we get more info.
- We are improving the way compression is going to work: instead of requiring various volumes of ore to compress into 1 unit of compress ore, we will now have 100 ore -> 1 compressed ore with the same output ratios, with compressed ore volume dictating the compression ratio. This is a lot more intuitive to players to use and simplifying the whole thing further. When this goes live a script will be run on TQ to make sure compressed ore stacks are migrated properly.
Example:
- BEFORE: to compress Veldspar, I need 166,500 units of Veldspar, then right-click the stack to get 1 unit of compressed veldspar with a 257m3 volume. The compressed Veldspar would yield 690,500 Tritanium for a mineral volume of 6095m3. Compression ratio is around 23.3 (with 86.8% reprocessing rate).
- AFTER: to compress Veldspar, I need 100 units of Veldspar, then right-click the stack to get 1 unit of compressed veldspar with 0.15m3. The compressed Veldspar would yield 415 Tritanium for a mineral volum of 4.15m3. Compression ratio is around 24 (with 86.8% reprocessing rate).
Thank you. All those weird input quantities were triggering my OCD.
To clarify for those who are interested, the new figures seem to be obtained with the following formula:
new value = Round(old value * new input qty / old input qty.)
Round to which ever number of decimals is appropriate. For volumes 2 decimals. For minerals, 0. The new mineral contents are still for a theoretical 100% refine.
Also, Compressed Mercoxit is still massively greater in volume than its Morphite content.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Echo Mande
65
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:22:00 -
[1962] - Quote
I'm kind of wondering what this will do to what little industry gets done in lowsec and if the effects have been considered.
As far as I know, a lot of what gets built in lowsec are capitals and related items (modules, drones, ammo). One of the uses of mineral compression is to get the required mins to lowsec safely (no freighters). With mineral compression going away and nullsec refining rates becoming better than lowsec there will be little if any reason for the lowsec capital builders to stay around. To those builders refine efficiency is important and if they can get better refines at an outpost they will probably move out, likely to become renters. AFAIK lowsec POSses tend to get shot and I doubt the builders will be willing to fly freighters between them and their building stations.
Comments? |
Potions Master
GearBunny
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:58:00 -
[1963] - Quote
Mineral compression isn't going away completely. Instead of 425mm guns or gas harvesters or whatever, it's going to be compressed ore.
As for the refining situation, they could put up a refining death star (small or medium tower with lots of guns and the intense refining module) whenever needed and then warp the refined material to station or directly into a component assembly arrays. They'll still be getting more minerals than they used to from stations (since they increased ore mineral content so that the new 72% = old 100% and they'll be getting 78% from the intense refinery...)
Also, I thought the point of EVE was to shoot things, so are you saying that's a bad thing? No risk, no isk. And what's really at risk here? A tower that's costing you time or isk (fuel blocks) and a refining module (which will probably get cheaper as it will get a bump in production as it will be in demand) in the bare bones configuration, some additional guns or ecm if you decide to arm it. Compared to the profit, is this a reasonable risk? For the cost of a jump freighter (which you'll probably use for this) you can probably buy more than 10 of these towers... |
Potions Master
GearBunny
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:04:00 -
[1964] - Quote
As for the ore volumes...
100 Raw Ore = 1 Compressed ore = smaller in most cases.
Mercoxit has always been an overly dense ore and easier to transport as morphite. We used to mine 20k of it with every medium belt and it was pretty much always converted into morphite for transport. If you have the refining array right at your tower, you'll refine it on the spot. If not, you'll compress and take it off to a minmatar station. Compressed ore is just an intermediate state to shrink it from it's raw ore volume to an easier to manage size. Nothing says that the compressed block's m3 has to be less than what it refines into, does it?
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Potions Master
GearBunny
0
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:09:00 -
[1965] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Electra GaafCramo wrote:Btw, any logic behind those pesky 0.0 stations having reprocessing technology superior to the empires?
GG CCP....your game was once fun, back when you realized that this game is more than a battle between a handfull of alliances. yep it's totally contradictory to all that fluff about the capsuleers being incredibly incredibly rich resourceful ambitous and powerful, as gods to mortal humans, augmentative science brought to its greatest extreme allowing pursuit of unimaginable wealth, threatening the stability of the four empires
We're taking over the world! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
272
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:12:00 -
[1966] - Quote
Potions Master wrote:As for the ore volumes...
100 Raw Ore = 1 Compressed ore = smaller in most cases.
Mercoxit has always been an overly dense ore and easier to transport as morphite. We used to mine 20k of it with every medium belt and it was pretty much always converted into morphite for transport. If you have the refining array right at your tower, you'll refine it on the spot. If not, you'll compress and take it off to a minmatar station. Compressed ore is just an intermediate state to shrink it from it's raw ore volume to an easier to manage size. Nothing says that the compressed block's m3 has to be less than what it refines into, does it?
Yeah, it's not a super-big deal. There isn't enough volume of mercoxit/morphite to really give it that much thought. I think it's more irritating to people that the values are incongruous on paper rather than it being a significant gameplay detractor. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Potions Master
GearBunny
1
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:13:00 -
[1967] - Quote
I think the wormhole guys are getting more than everyone else. For those of us who live and build in our towers, this is going to remove one of the most annoying steps in the process of converting ore to sellable goods. Now instead of having to haul everything to station to refine, then haul all the materials back to the tower, I'll just mine straight into my tower refining array and build right there. I also appreciate the fact that I can now make fuel blocks for the tower much easier. That was something I missed when they switched over to the blocks, just being able to throw the PI right in with the refined ice product.
Even if I had to refine in station, it's pretty much the same amounts as before, so I don't see what the big deal is and why folks are screaming that it's going to be a huge nerf. Sure, you can't reprocess the 425's anymore, but out in concord-less space you'll be pulling more minerals out of the ore than empire one way or another (whether by intense refining arrays or upgraded outposts) All the ore and minerals that used to go into building those 425's is going to be heading to the market or being put into other things now too.
Now all they have to do is tell us they're going to increase the mineral content of meta modules to being higher than the meta0 modules and the mission runners dilemma will be mostly solved. Right? |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1115
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:17:00 -
[1968] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The Rules: 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Thorongil Telcontar
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.08 03:30:00 -
[1969] - Quote
not sure if its been posted in the previous 90 pages, but minmatar stations need some serious love.
Currently the minmatar station is strictly worse then all other stations, except for the fact that it can refine
Current attributes on base stations before any upgrades are installed
Station:( Regular Build Slots, Bosster Build Slots, Lab slots{Combined ME, PE, Copying, Invention Slots} , Office Slots)
Amarr ( 50, 10, 6, 16) Caldari ( 5, 5, 80, 18) Gallente ( 10, 10, 14, 36) Minmatar ( 5, 0 , 0, 10)
Currently the only thing helping the minmatar station is the base 35% refinery. After the patch the only thing the minmatar station will have is a 2% base increase to refining over other stations while still being worse at everything else
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11051
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Posted - 2014.04.08 04:32:00 -
[1970] - Quote
Thorongil Telcontar wrote:not sure if its been posted in the previous 90 pages, but minmatar stations need some serious love.
Currently the minmatar station is strictly worse then all other stations, except for the fact that it can refine
Current attributes on base stations before any upgrades are installed
Station:( Regular Build Slots, Bosster Build Slots, Combined Lab slots{ME, PE, Copying, Invention Slots} , Office Slots)
Amarr ( 50, 10, 6, 16) Caldari ( 5, 5, 80, 18) Gallente ( 10, 10, 14, 36) Minmatar ( 5, 0 , 0, 10)
Currently the only thing helping the minmatar station is the base 35% refinery. After the patch the only thing the minmatar station will have is a 2% base increase to refining over other stations while still being worse at everything else
Outposts are going to get love in the future, likely when they revamp sov space. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.04.08 07:01:00 -
[1971] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: likely when they revamp sov space.
soo summer 2020? ^^ |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11052
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Posted - 2014.04.08 08:23:00 -
[1972] - Quote
Firvain wrote:baltec1 wrote: likely when they revamp sov space. soo summer 2020? ^^
AKA soon. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Snowblower
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.04.08 15:44:00 -
[1973] - Quote
Why should changes need to wait, the Minmatar is currently getting a heavy nerf due to changes to the other races stations. The reason why people used them in the 1st place is being turned into a very small bonus to 1 service while having little to none of the other services offered by other stations. Several different options exist and it should not be that difficult to change the attributes (since all other player built stations are receiving a new service) to increase the abilities to bring them in line with the others.
The amount of Isk/time to build a station is not trivial and as it stands now I see no reason why people would ever want to drop a Minmatar station again or even use one that exists for that matter. The loss of refinery % will be small compared to the need to build in either another system (making it so the refined materials need to be moved again) or building in a POS in system due to the lack of build slots in station.
The other option would be to increase the difference (base and upgraded) for refining to make the additional costs to build in a system outside of the station worthwhile. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
354
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:53:00 -
[1974] - Quote
Snowblower wrote:Why should changes need to wait, the Minmatar is currently getting a heavy nerf due to changes to the other races stations. The reason why people used them in the 1st place is being turned into a very small bonus to 1 service while having little to none of the other services offered by other stations. Several different options exist and it should not be that difficult to change the attributes (since all other player built stations are receiving a new service) to increase the abilities to bring them in line with the others.
The amount of Isk/time to build a station is not trivial and as it stands now I see no reason why people would ever want to drop a Minmatar station again or even use one that exists for that matter. The loss of refinery % will be small compared to the need to build in either another system (making it so the refined materials need to be moved again) or building in a POS in system due to the lack of build slots in station.
The other option would be to increase the difference (base and upgraded) for refining to make the additional costs to build in a system outside of the station worthwhile. did you miss where minmatar outposts got buffed to have 52% base refine rate and grow to 54 57 60 |
Snowblower
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:16:00 -
[1975] - Quote
I did not miss that, I even stated that (not with the exact numbers) by saying it would have, what I consider to be, a small bonus for 1 activity. Does that small bonus make up for the complete lack of anything else? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
355
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:14:00 -
[1976] - Quote
Snowblower wrote:I did not miss that, I even stated that (not with the exact numbers) by saying it would have, what I consider to be, a small bonus for 1 activity. Does that small bonus make up for the complete lack of anything else? I guess if being able to get the same refines at a tier 0 Minmatar outpost that you'd need a tier 1 non-minmatar outpost is not enough of an advantage then I am not sure what would be better
minmatar outposts get offices too, does this mean that gallente outposts need a buff |
Snowblower
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:29:00 -
[1977] - Quote
The lowest amount of offices of all stations... |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
355
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:19:00 -
[1978] - Quote
Snowblower wrote:The lowest amount of offices of all stations...
The point of the post was about how compared with the current stats of other stations the only advantage Minmatar has is that it can refine. Nothing is being added to compensate for the unique ability being given to everyone.
After you use that additional refine % that is given to the station you still have to build something with the materials. With the current stats you quickly run out of build slots and then only have the choice between hauling those materials to a station in another system to use the build slots or using a POS, thus causing additional costs to be incurred to fuel the POS. other types of outposts can refine as well
truth of the matter is that no outpost has anything unique about it
some outposts are just better at some things than others |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
275
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:41:00 -
[1979] - Quote
It would be nice to get a little bit of acknowledgement on the subject of a station compression service. Is this something CCP is considering? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Thorongil Telcontar
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.09 03:15:00 -
[1980] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Snowblower wrote:The lowest amount of offices of all stations...
The point of the post was about how compared with the current stats of other stations the only advantage Minmatar has is that it can refine. Nothing is being added to compensate for the unique ability being given to everyone.
After you use that additional refine % that is given to the station you still have to build something with the materials. With the current stats you quickly run out of build slots and then only have the choice between hauling those materials to a station in another system to use the build slots or using a POS, thus causing additional costs to be incurred to fuel the POS. other types of outposts can refine as well truth of the matter is that no outpost has anything unique about it some outposts are just better at some things than others
True but you're still missing the point. The only thing the minmatar station is good at is reprocessing. Yes you "can" add a refinery to all the other station, but they won't be good at it. Minmatar curreently has a 20-30% refining advantage currently ofer any other station as a refinery.
This is advantage is getting heavily nerfed to 2-3% over the other station with this patch while having no other advantages |
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