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Minerma
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:39:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Lek'karion
Well personally I'm always happy to take shots at folks when I'm being paid to kill them. But there are plenty of more fitting targets already floating around in that system that would make the place more pleasant by being atomized rather than CVA and theirs. I would never call myself a follower of all the politcs, but even I believe that there is much more benefit being brought to this region than taken away, espically as a source of an open market where even CVA could bring their goods to sell and boost their own economy, not to mention the possiblity for sharing their own spiritual thoughts with all the traders that will visit the station. It could rightly become an economic and spiritual mecca if this opportunity was explored more fully.
But on the other hand, Merc's don't get paid much for peace breaking out. So either way, economic/spiritual mecca, or war-zone. Eh it works for me.
QFT
Youre post sums it all up in the most clear way possible BUT it looks like these CVA guys just dont get it....and wether they are thick or have a hidden agenda it really doesnt matter, they want blood. Then by all means, make them bleed. Perhaps this way they will see the light.....
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:41:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tharrn I still don't get why free trade cannot take place a few jumps further.
Why do I even get involved... probably because it all just doesn't make sense. The soultion is there for days already: CVA helps to move the materials as suggested. ISS has an Outpost in unclaimed Providence, everyone is happy.
Given your demonstrated bad faith, bluntly ISS cannot take the security risk of you moving things for them. Or they'd be uterly insane to do so.
Further, you evidently have no idea about how to do traderoute analyses or how ISS picked that particular system for a station, but moving it to somwehere which seems logical and nearby can crush operating profits because far elss people will visit.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Reash
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:41:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Krackerjack
Originally by: Reash
3KB is not in the centre of CVA space its true which is why are eyes are not constantly on it, with an ISS outpost there pirates would make better use of the outpost than traders and other law abiding citizens, CVA and the local traders do not want this.
But Reash, ISS deny docking rights to pirates and the ISSN are effective against casual piracy - so how could this be true?
To my knowldge to be a pirate you must shoot ISS, so any pirate not shooting ISS can still pirate in the area.
Not 100% sure on this but don't ISS allow dcking rights to the sudden death squad? at one point the biggest pirate threat in providence? that info might not be 100% correct but the point is clear.
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Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:42:00 -
[64]
Quote: I still don't get why free trade cannot take place a few jumps further.
And we don't get why for a system the CVA intially didn't claim, never visted are making such a fuss ... its all down to them losing isk from a public outpost, nothing else.
ISS just kill them and move on .... Eve is bigger than the CVA greedy ideas.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:47:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Zooish
And we don't get why for a system the CVA intially didn't claim, never visted are making such a fuss ... its all down to them losing isk from a public outpost, nothing else.
ISS just kill them and move on .... Eve is bigger than the CVA greedy ideas.
Having fun in the School of Applied Knowledge? After all you haven't moved from it in the entire 4 months and a bit you've been a pod pilot. Are you sure your not just relaying someone elses words? I don't see how a pilot such as yourself is so informed about CVA operations, maybe you should grow a pair and post with your main?
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Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:52:00 -
[66]
Quote: Having fun in the School of Applied Knowledge? After all you haven't moved from it in the entire 4 months and a bit you've been a pod pilot. Are you sure your not just relaying someone elses words? I don't see how a pilot such as yourself is so informed about CVA operations, maybe you should grow a pair and post with your main?
You don't have to a big shot to see how "stupid" the statement " I may want the whole of Providence" sounds. Good one CVA ..
The only thing upsetting CVA is that they may lose some Isk ........ they don't give a damn about the rest of Eve.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.04.23 20:55:00 -
[67]
Wasn't it the ISS who said this is about ISK? Move on, troll.
Now recruiting!
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Ituralde
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Posted - 2006.04.23 21:31:00 -
[68]
Naturally nobody from Jericho Fraction can appreciate why groups claim space like this. However, it stretches my imagination even further as to why:
1. Anyone would worry so much about claiming providence of all regions;
2. Anyone would care that a very non-hostile neutral party is building an Outpost that they can use that opens up for them greater oppertunity and ease in using nearby space;
3. Anyone would start a war with an incredibly wealthy group such as the ISS over one system in a terrible region;
4. Anyone would waste their ISK on an outpost in that godforsaken region(though I guess really that's besides the point);
5. CVA claims that Aralis should be the sole contact on this issue for ISS yet continues to individually bring points of debate to this board;
6. There has yet to be in this thread a Band of Brothers-related conspiracy theory posted relating to this issue.
Taking this into account in addition to: a. The royal pain involved in moving outposts, b. The potentially high costs of war, c. The potential gain from both parties of having a public outpost in this location, I thus ask,
What is the issue here? What threat is there to the CVA over a 1-system territorial debate? Does the CVA have nothing better to do with their time then squabble and fight a full war over one outpost usable by them placed in a next-to-useless region anyways?
Is this a really stupid issue or am I just missing something completetely?
Fear is the mind-killer. |
Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.23 21:47:00 -
[69]
Its all down to Isk ... the CVA is trying to claim a region it can't hold so maybe they can stop a public outpost ...
ISS just take theirs ........ I'll pay.
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Phiraga
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Posted - 2006.04.23 21:58:00 -
[70]
CVA is just butthurt that they don't have enough power to deploy Outposts at the same rate as another resident of Providence. Plain and simple. Swallowing one's pride seldom leads to indigestion.
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.04.23 22:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ituralde Naturally nobody from Jericho Fraction can appreciate why groups claim space like this. However, it stretches my imagination even further as to why:
1. Anyone would worry so much about claiming providence of all regions;
Home is home, you stake your claim and you defend it...that's a pretty simple concept to grasp.
Quote: 2. Anyone would care that a very non-hostile neutral party is building an Outpost that they can use that opens up for them greater oppertunity and ease in using nearby space;
CVA already pointed out ISS could have set up shop just outside of their claimed space and there would have been no war. The main issue is one of sovereignty, although I'm sure there are other reasons to oppose the station, such as it being used as a staging ground for enemies.
Quote: 3. Anyone would start a war with an incredibly wealthy group such as the ISS over one system in a terrible region;
If you claim territory, you must be willing to defend it from all who try to take it away from you. This war is a test of CVA's claim. The outcome will serve as either a warning or a welcome sign to future adversaries who may want to encroach upon CVA space.
Quote: 4. Anyone would waste their ISK on an outpost in that godforsaken region(though I guess really that's besides the point);
You're right...especially in light of recent events, this doesn't look like a good business move.
Quote: Taking this into account in addition to: a. The royal pain involved in moving outposts, b. The potentially high costs of war, c. The potential gain from both parties of having a public outpost in this location, I thus ask,
What is the issue here? What threat is there to the CVA over a 1-system territorial debate? Does the CVA have nothing better to do with their time then squabble and fight a full war over one outpost usable by them placed in a next-to-useless region anyways?
Is this a really stupid issue or am I just missing something completetely?
The issue is that CVA has laid claim to a good chunk of Providence outside of its "official" sovereign systems. Such a claim is worthless if you don't defend it. ISS is setting up shop in a system CVA claims, so there's a war.
This war is a true test of sovereignty. If CVA wins, they can continue to claim the territory. If they lose...well, it's a high stakes game, isn't it?
I wish this war wasn't happening, but I can fully understand why it's happening. So to answer your final question, yes, you're just missing the point. If it's a stupid issue, then our whole pvp-centric galaxy is pretty stupid, too. But that's another debate.... ____________________________________________________________________
Open skies policies are signs of strength and courage, not weakness. |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.04.23 22:07:00 -
[72]
Isn't it funny that most of the anti-CVA posts are made by faceless monkeys while the supporters don't hide behind smoke screens?
Now recruiting!
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Lady Kushrenada
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Posted - 2006.04.23 22:30:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Montague Zooma
The issue is that CVA has laid claim to a good chunk of Providence outside of its "official" sovereign systems. Such a claim is worthless if you don't defend it. ISS is setting up shop in a system CVA claims, so there's a war.
Ill start by intentionally skipping the argument concerning the lack of value to any territorial claim and simply move on.
So in other words this is a war of nothing but territorialist chest-beating on the part of the CVA. This war has absolutely no strategic relevance for the CVA. Really, if they were concerned about enemies setting up shop there then maybe I am just an idiot, but, wouldn't this make declaring war on the ISS seem really counterproductive? Seems like a good way to have an enemy with a rally point right on your border to me. Though perhaps amarrian masculine pride is so much that not even logic stands a chance...
Originally by: Tharrn Isn't it funny that most of the anti-CVA posts are made by faceless monkeys while the supporters don't hide behind smoke screens?
Are you saying my good friend Ituralde is a monkey? I do beleive humans - particularly amarrians - bear that resemblance - But really, he is an honest free-thinking pod pilot that I would hesitate to consider faceless or hiding. Really, I would not even think the small injection of logic can even truly be considered Anti-CVA, simply a touch of honest reason. Unless that touch really hurts that much?
If that was a jab at another, not my corpmate, then please do let me retract that sentiment. I will however maintain that Amarrians (including my dear cormpate) bear distinct resemblance to their animalian progenitors.
One last point.
Originally by: Montague Zooma This war is a true test of sovereignty. If CVA wins, they can continue to claim the territory. If they lose...well, it's a high stakes game, isn't it?
This is no test of soverignty, this is a battle of pride as the ISS has made no territorial claim to any part of providence, merely holding official sovereignty over one system for the sake of deploying thier station. I would argue the true test here for the CVA is between 'pride' and reason.
____________ Fear is the Mind-Killer |
Majaraw Awalabas
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Posted - 2006.04.23 22:34:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Lady Kushrenada So in other words this is a war of nothing but territorialist chest-beating on the part of the CVA.
The motormouth speaks too late. Agreement has been reached before your dribble was published.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.04.23 22:46:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tharrn on 23/04/2006 22:47:07
Originally by: Lady Kushrenada
Are you saying my good friend Ituralde is a monkey?
You may have noted the word 'most' and I am sure you are aware that I was referring to all those nobodies who have never piloted a spacecraft or left the safety of their training corps. I would never call Fractionites monkeys - heathens or anarchists would be far more fitting.
Now recruiting!
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Lady Kushrenada
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Posted - 2006.04.23 22:50:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tharrn Edited by: Tharrn on 23/04/2006 22:47:07
Originally by: Lady Kushrenada
Are you saying my good friend Ituralde is a monkey?
You may have noted the word 'most' and I am sure you are aware that I was referring to all those nobodies who have never piloted a spacecraft or left the safety of their training corps. I would never call Fractionites monkeys - heathens or anarchists would be far more fitting.
*giggles*
I still maintain my earlier position concerning the monkey issue and have nothing further to add. ____________ Fear is the Mind-Killer |
Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.04.23 23:37:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Lady Kushrenada
So in other words this is a war of nothing but territorialist chest-beating on the part of the CVA. This war has absolutely no strategic relevance for the CVA. Really, if they were concerned about enemies setting up shop there then maybe I am just an idiot, but, wouldn't this make declaring war on the ISS seem really counterproductive?
The war seems to have been most productive for CVA in terms of asserting its sovereignty in the region. They stood firm against a much larger opponent and reached a settlement. CVA has made its point and potential invaders would be wise in heeding this lesson. As for whether you were being an idiot...that is for you to decide. ____________________________________________________________________
Open skies policies are signs of strength and courage, not weakness. |
Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.24 01:38:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Zooish on 24/04/2006 01:38:46
Quote: The war seems to have been most productive for CVA in terms of asserting its sovereignty in the region. They stood firm against a much larger opponent and reached a settlement. CVA has made its point and potential invaders would be wise in heeding this lesson. As for whether you were being an idiot...that is for you to decide.
I would hush before you talk CVA into losing their Outpost. If the CVA an Puppets think I'm joking .... keep posting.
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.04.24 01:54:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Zooish Edited by: Zooish on 24/04/2006 01:38:46
Quote: The war seems to have been most productive for CVA in terms of asserting its sovereignty in the region. They stood firm against a much larger opponent and reached a settlement. CVA has made its point and potential invaders would be wise in heeding this lesson. As for whether you were being an idiot...that is for you to decide.
I would hush before you talk CVA into losing their Outpost. If the CVA an Puppets think I'm joking .... keep posting.
I'm sure the known universe is quaking in its boots by the bold words of a member of School of Applied Knowledge.
I am a solo corp and speak for only for myself. My knowledge of this war is limited almost entirely to what was posted here. I post my views without hiding being an alternate identity.
Anyone who would take action against CVA or ISS because of my interpretation of events is even more clueless than I am. ____________________________________________________________________
Open skies policies are signs of strength and courage, not weakness. |
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