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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
425
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Simply put - fix the management tools.
I'd like to see the full modular systems come out but without good, solid management tools...
After those are fixed, the entire thing can be revamped but until you can properly manage and control the containers and assets attached to a POS, the rest will simply be fluff. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
208
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:
- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite. - They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes - The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.
What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4928
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Everything related to roles and sharing and actually using the different arrays fall back on that scattered approach GÇö make them a single expandable object and the rest will become far more sane.
Well, a good start would be knowing in advance that separate hangars for each POS module is a pain in the rear. In any future POS development, I'd like to see one central storage from and to which all the materials are delivered: something like your personal & corporate hangar system in stations, or at worst something like the Command Centre / Silo plurality in PI.
Then having roles assigned per activity line rather than per type of activity would be nice. I'd prefer a system of ACLs rather than fixed "this person can do this thing to any POS": add a user to a group, then associate that group with a particular activity on a specific activity line. Thus I could reserve some research labs for the corp running the POS and have the rest available for hire by anyone.
A revamp of roles is just as important as a revamp of POS graphics, mechanics and components. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Coffin Packer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:I'd like to see abandoned POS, being those towers that aren't burning fuel, simply blink out of existence (along with any associated structures and contents therein) after 30 days.
Anchor/Unanchor times have been trimmed dramatically over the last few years, so mere laziness is no excuse.
Fuel it or lose it.
Instead of blinking out, I would rather they become un-anchored after 30 days and become scoopable. After 60 days they blink out. If you need a reason, it's due to gravity pulling it out of orbit (or something). |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
331
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Posted - 2014.02.25 21:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Passive Moongoo collection. |
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
84
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Posted - 2014.02.25 21:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:In order of preference, I'd like to be able to:
- set up a POS and have alliance members be able to do research, invention, reverse engineering, reactions, manufacturing, whatever, all with the same access that I would give to members of my own corporation;
- use NPC & POS refineries the same way as other activity lines;
- give people the ability to cancel their own jobs, without being able to cancel everyone else's jobs too;
- pay for POS activity line fees out of my personal wallet;
- set up usage fees based on standings, just like POCOs;
- use BPOs from my personal hangar when doing research at a POS in the same system;
.....
Pretty much this. Allow us to offer the asset of a POS to our alliance (or other pilots) for money. This creates new gameplay. Additionally, I would like to see POS lines similar like those offered in stations. No dedicated silo for each materials. Keep it simple: a hangar like container for stuff plus various structures to unlock capabilities. Capabilities operate on stuff in the hangar, the resulting product ends again in the hangar. Having to store the right ingredients in a specific structure is just artificially dull.
On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
186
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Posted - 2014.02.25 23:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Marsan wrote:It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:
- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite. - They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes - The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.
What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables.
I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well.
However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it.
Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
10420
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Remove AFK POS nesting..... the real AFK threat.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4931
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote:Having to store the right ingredients in a specific structure is just artificially dull.
Well, ingredient-specific structures could have an advantage in terms of storage-per-CPU/PG for example. The same way ship balancing works: you get either 6000m3 of cargo (adjustable with cargo mods), or 60km3 of specialised bay. So in a modular POS setup, I could imagine "hangar modules" providing say 600k m3 of personal hangar space, while the same CPU or PG budget would buy a "volatile materials module" which provides 3M m3 of storage for moon goo, reactants and gasses.
Thus you can tune your POS to a specific activity by providing heaps of reactant storage, a large number of reactors, and a "docking bay" allowing you to issue courier contracts to/from that POS. Someone else could do a similar setup with heaps of manufacturing material storage, a high time-efficiency refinery and a large number of high time-efficiency manufacturing lines as a specialist front-line ammunition manufacturing bunker.
Someone else might opt for huge amounts of material storage and a few high material-efficiency ship assembly lines as a means of maintaining a steady but profitable supply of ship hulls for a particular market.
Then your POS power plants and computing facilities would simply produce a certain amount of PG or CPU for a fixed budget of fuel blocks per hour (or minutes per block). There would be multiple sized PG and CPU "boxes" to choose from (e.g: units of 1, 10, 100, or some mathematically 'better' scale such as primes, Fibonacci, whatever) and you just plonk them all together to get the PG and CPU you require. Need more invention labs? Stick on a Hyasyoda Mobile Laboratory (5 invention, 1 copy) and add a new 500CPU computing facility. Now your fuel budget just went up by another five fuel blocks a day. Update your contracts to have the new fuel delivered.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2309
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
1) Controlling Guns- its horrid
2) Anchoring and setting up a tower - life sucking and a pain in the nuts to boot, give me a fitting screen like my ship ok? Let me set it all up and then go actually play eve instead of nannying this stupid thing all damn day.
3) building anything not a super at a tower or refining at a tower sucks, fix that. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Lyelle Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.02.26 03:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Marsan wrote:It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:
- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite. - They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes - The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.
What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables. I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well. However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it. Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it.
You'd have to get a pretty large group of people to stand up for this. Most people aren't willing to come in here to voice their opinion. I mean, there's really only a small group of people who will actually come here to support things. The rest live up in the north and do whatever their masters tell them too. Such as "like this story that I made so I can win a free trip to CCP." Yea, that wasn't rigged at all.
//LW |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
700
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I want my pos to stop trying to murder me after I bomb it. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
186
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lyelle Wolf wrote:DaReaper wrote:Marsan wrote:It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:
- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite. - They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes - The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.
What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables. I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well. However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it. Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it. You'd have to get a pretty large group of people to stand up for this. Most people aren't willing to come in here to voice their opinion. I mean, there's really only a small group of people who will actually come here to support things. The rest live up in the north and do whatever their masters tell them too. Such as "like this story that I made so I can win a free trip to CCP." Yea, that wasn't rigged at all. //LW
Ugh gettign off topic.. but you mean the First true story that was chosen? |
Fish Hunter
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation
17
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Posted - 2014.02.26 08:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Please make a central hangar and science tab that works like a station. Change the pos structures to modify hangar space, industry lines, etc . Everything accessible from the one hangar. No more different manufacture structures. Just add structures to increase slots. Oh and the alliance access issues |
Lyelle Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 08:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Lyelle Wolf wrote:DaReaper wrote:Marsan wrote:It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:
- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite. - They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes - The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.
What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables. I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well. However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it. Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it. You'd have to get a pretty large group of people to stand up for this. Most people aren't willing to come in here to voice their opinion. I mean, there's really only a small group of people who will actually come here to support things. The rest live up in the north and do whatever their masters tell them too. Such as "like this story that I made so I can win a free trip to CCP." Yea, that wasn't rigged at all. //LW Ugh gettign off topic.. but you mean the First true story that was chosen?
Yea, but back on topic.
Fully support revamp. I wouldn't mind it if they took two "expansions" to rework POS mechanics. The expansions are usually a big compilation of reworks with one or two new things.
//LW
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Oxide Ammar
74
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 09:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:2) Anchoring and setting up a tower - life sucking and a pain in the nuts to boot, give me a fitting screen like my ship ok? Let me set it all up and then go actually play eve instead of nannying this stupid thing all damn day.
This is pretty good damn idea, I have never thought of it before. You plan what are the modules and structures will be anchored and onlined in fitting window like a ship then you dump all this in one tower and it should anchor itself with its arrays automatically. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
209
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 11:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Marsan wrote:It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:
- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite. - They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes - The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.
What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables. I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well. However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it. Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it.
You go on thinking that, but Eve players already got up in arms about it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625 Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 12:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Use the new mobile deployable code for the towers. Moon resources should act finite. So the more you mine the less yield you get per m3 ore (unless you upgrade, if anyone misses this part they can't read). Do this by having the mining tower have a mining equipment level that you must upgrade with ore. So you start out with mining equipment size 1 and then mine the first cheap moongoo, then as yields go down you upgrade to size 2 that mines faster so even though the yield is lower you can keep your yield up (even higher and higher on each level if you upgrade early). It should be better to upgrade size level than to move to an un-mined moon (so that there's unmined moons left for startups, and so its a penalty on your income if your mining tower is destroyed). Once your mining tower is destroyed you must start at level 1 on the next tower.
Sov should have its own military station, that if destroyed drops sov. In this military station the station owner (sov holder) can approve anyone to put up towers (with standings) in that system. You should be able to let for example corp A put up towers in system X, while not giving permission to put up in System Y. I think there should be two classes of towers, the ones you can have titans in and so forth (enemies can place these anywhere without permission), and the ones purely used for mining moongoo (need permission). You should also be able to put them next to each other (1 tower per moon is a bad limitation).
Also, the visual interface must have more sense. Thousands of the years into the future they have very advanced and easy to use administrative tools. |
Black Locust
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs Mordus Angels
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 13:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
Not sure if was mentioned yet, so if it was, consider this a +1
A lot of people have mentioned being able to shoot offline towers without the need to wardec etc, I have another thought on this subject. Expanding the new(ish) hacking mini game, to allow you to hack offline towers, if successful you take over ownership of it, so you can un anchor sell / or online it.
Just an idea I thought would be cool |
Kaidu Kahn
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.02.26 14:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
- Give missle batteries better damage to make them a usable option. - Stop letting defenses kill corpmates randomly - Make the interface for POS module deployment better |
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
644
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Black Locust wrote:Not sure if was mentioned yet, so if it was, consider this a +1
A lot of people have mentioned being able to shoot offline towers without the need to wardec etc, I have another thought on this subject. Expanding the new(ish) hacking mini game, to allow you to hack offline towers, if successful you take over ownership of it, so you can un anchor sell / or online it.
Just an idea I thought would be cool I don't buy this hacking thing yet.
Currently a POS removal takes quite some effort in time and dps. While I'm all for improved (or even new) methods of removing them (like not having to wardec someone for a tower, that has been unfueled for a prolonged time), it still should take a considerable effort in time and resources.
So just out of curiosity: For how many hours would you be willing to sit at that POS hacking it and what resources would you spend on this? Remove insurance. |
Jarvin Spoo
Clandestine Management Group SiNTaX err0r
18
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Posted - 2014.02.26 19:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Black Locust wrote:Not sure if was mentioned yet, so if it was, consider this a +1
A lot of people have mentioned being able to shoot offline towers without the need to wardec etc, I have another thought on this subject. Expanding the new(ish) hacking mini game, to allow you to hack offline towers, if successful you take over ownership of it, so you can un anchor sell / or online it.
Just an idea I thought would be cool I don't buy this hacking thing yet. Currently a POS removal takes quite some effort in time and dps. While I'm all for improved (or even new) methods of removing them (like not having to wardec someone for a tower, that has been unfueled for a prolonged time), it still should take a considerable effort in time and resources. So just out of curiosity: For how many hours would you be willing to sit at that POS hacking it and what resources would you spend on this?
But why should it take a considerable effort in time and resources? This is an abandoned player owned structure in space. If allowed to hack ......the awesome cross-over from standard PVE Exploration to player emergent content has been made in this area. Isn't that something CCP has been aiming for for some time? Sounds awesome. I am imagining whole corps who travel through WH space to find these derelict structures to explore and gain the riches inside. And then....those who lay in wait to take it from them! :) |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4939
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jarvin Spoo wrote:But why should it take a considerable effort in time and resources? This is an abandoned player owned structure in space.
If it's not worth a few hours of your time, it's really not worth removing the POS. Organising a fleet and issuing a wardec is really not a significant hurdle when you are about to engage in an activity that requires significant long term logistical support.
This is just balancing risk/reward.
Wardec the tower, start shooting it. Take the risk, reap the reward. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3223
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jarvin Spoo wrote:But why should it take a considerable effort in time and resources? This is an abandoned player owned structure in space. If allowed to hack ......the awesome cross-over from standard PVE Exploration to player emergent content has been made in this area. Isn't that something CCP has been aiming for for some time? Sounds awesome. I am imagining whole corps who travel through WH space to find these derelict structures to explore and gain the riches inside. And then....those who lay in wait to take it from them! :) Offline towers are not always abandoned.
There should be at least a 24 hour delay to allow the owners to respond, even without a wardec. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4940
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There should be at least a 24 hour delay to allow the owners to respond, even without a wardec.
Six months, if the "attacker" is scared of a wardec. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Arwen Ariniel
Shaolin Legacy Preatoriani
23
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Posted - 2014.02.27 11:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Many POS problems are not POS problems, but rather roles and access rights problems.
* POS still go Skynet on their owners.
This...
And a personal ship hangar array. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
196
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
bump needs to be fixed |
Hevymetal
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
210
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
There has been alot of good suggestions posted in this thread.
Some of the mentioned changes that IMHO would require minimal effort on CCP's part to implement.
1. Missle Batteries - The ROF and damage modifier can easily be revised to bring them more into mainstream useage. Don't really think anyone uses these anymore. It would be great if a simple stat change could make them a viable defense once again.
2. Assmebly arrays - Allow any ship class the same size or smaller then the current array to be built in that array. Make the larger arrays more useable and valuable.
3. Unfueled POS - This is an area of great debate. I do believe most of us can at least agree SOMETHING needs to be done with this. A 30-60 day unfuel auto unanchor timer seems easy enough to do. An open target flag also seems easy enough as well. Whatever decision is reached, hopefully abandoned towers set by corps closed 6 years ago will be addressed.
4. POS aggro mechanics - Review the existing code for errors or changes necessary to prevent Skynet. Not sure what the underlying issue is but reviewing the code sure wouldn't hurt.
5. POS refuel notices - Not much effort to change the emails to say "Size POS located at System XXX Planet XXX Moon XXX has x Hrs of fuel remaining". This will go a long way in helping manage multiple towers.
6. POS killmails - Show what was inside arrays and hangers that were blown up. Make the PVPers happy :)
7. Ship cargohold storage - Allow storage of ships with containers and cargo in their hold in maintenance arrays. Would be a nice feature allowing for more storage for WH dwellers as well as the rest of us.
8. Allow POS transfer of ownership without teardown and resetup - This may be harder then I believe it to be. It would also create a new profession in EVE (POS development) a person or corp could acquire a location, setup according to required specs, fuel it and then transfer it in operational condition to a buyer making a tidy profit.
It seems quite a few changes could be made that would help pacify us for the time being. At least until more effort could be put into them. Simple things would add to the benefit of POS ownership.
Please keep this thread up and going and continue to discuss and comment on this issue and ideas brought up here. Hopefully a DEV will read this thread and maybe, just maybe, comment about them or even better do something that would benefit us all. :)
Thanks for helping to contribute Hevymetal
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace Forsaken Asylum
1551
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
Of course, we could just get rid of POS altogether.
1) All moon mining could be part of PI, 2) player built stations ("Outposts") are no big deal these days to build and have pretty much been built already anywhere that makes sense, 3) "reactions" for moon materials could be built into a station's industrial slots options, 4), etc., etc.
WH players would find themselves screwed, but then it's time for Outposts, moon mining and so forth in WH's anyway.
Not exactly as simple as it sounds, but it beats the Hell out of replacing it with something else that might need six months of patchs ... so let's just get rid of those ****** ol' POS and their ****** ol' code... and all the "roles" nonsense that goes with it.
Call it an "expansion" or something.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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kbroen Xylus
Plan-It Xpress Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:02:00 -
[60] - Quote
I agree with any of the above posts relating to mechanics. However,
SMA's need to be configured to allow different access just like the corp hangar. Thats my number one beef with the system. |
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