Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Drayona
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 05:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been away for about 3 years and notice a lot has changed in terms of drone aggro. Are they even usable now and if so, how? I have been experimenting with my Raven in L4's and I wait till I have 5 targets remaining or less. I lock on all targets, and fire cruise missiles at two of them. In every case, when I launch my 5 drones (set to passive) and select ANY of the 5 targets for them to engage, they are almost instantly killed. I try to pull them back but usually, one does not make it. So, what am I doing wrong...and how can I use my 600K ISK drones again....or did CCP 'retire' drone use? Thanks!
/ |
Vira'li
Independant Praetorian Corp
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 05:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just last patch we got a huge drone change. Since it wasn't long ago, please read the patch notes and dev blogs |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
79
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 05:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP updated some time Ago the AI of NPC to be like Sleeper.
So now NPC are a bit more smart and change their targets according to several factors, like ncoming dmg or logistic usage instead of 1st Agro focus fire and ignore everything also.
Or to put it short, you can use your drones but you better keep an eye of them instead use them as AFK mode.
In your cae i may suggest use them for short range and not send them to 30+Km where they can be destroyed before their return to the drone bay. |
Drayona
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 05:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:CCP updated some time Ago the AI of NPC to be like Sleeper.
So now NPC are a bit more smart and change their targets according to several factors, like ncoming dmg or logistic usage instead of 1st Agro focus fire and ignore everything also.
Or to put it short, you can use your drones but you better keep an eye of them instead use them as AFK mode.
In your cae i may suggest use them for short range and not send them to 30+Km where they can be destroyed before their return to the drone bay.
I understand CCP wanted to stop the AFK thing....but....read what I said...I killed everything except last 5. (clearly, I am not AFK). I lock all targets, and fire 3 missiles on closest and 3 on 2nd closest. At this point, all are very close since distant ones were wiped out previously. So.... 5 remaining targets...all locked. 2 fired upon by my raven At this point, launch drones (set to passive) I engage either of the two targets I am firing upon..... Instant aggro...return to drone bay....one is 'stuck??....and does not make it back. 3 Separate L4's ...similar results.
So, again I accept CCP wanting to shut down AFK, but as you can see...I can not use drones anymore. Keeping an eye on them will not help. No biggie I guess...just have to come up with another strategy to deal with the warp scramblers, and put all my drones into retirement. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19213
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 05:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
No, they did not. They just made it so that frigates are very keen on attacking the biggest threat against them, which for most L4 mission setups will be the drones.
There are many tricks to keeping your drones alive, ranging from just babysitting them something fierce to giving the frigates something else to be worried about (the AI has a fierce hatred of remote support effects, for instance) to just blowing the frigates up at range before they can threaten your drones.
Fiddling with the drone aggression settings won't do anything since that's not a deciding factor in whether they get attacked or not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
708
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 05:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Drayona wrote:I have been away for about 3 years and notice a lot has changed in terms of drone aggro. Are they even usable now and if so, how? I have been experimenting with my Raven in L4's and I wait till I have 5 targets remaining or less. I lock on all targets, and fire cruise missiles at two of them. In every case, when I launch my 5 drones (set to passive) and select ANY of the 5 targets for them to engage, they are almost instantly killed. I try to pull them back but usually, one does not make it. So, what am I doing wrong...and how can I use my 600K ISK drones again....or did CCP 'retire' drone use? Thanks!
In the time you were away, CCP also added the drone damage amplifier which has transformed the fitting of droneboats, ie you are joining at the end of the period where droneboats were the best thing in the game for many tasks and have been nerfed.
For the particular task of completing the maze - which is probably the worst frigate problem in the game, I use a web and fire railguns uselessly at the 20 scrambling frigates from my drone fit proteus. The web causes the frigates to stick to me, and I can kill all 20+ scrambling elite frigates without losing a drone.
Note : that this effect is probably less effective from a battleship because of the larger signature difference between drone and battleship, but if say you were flying a missile chucker like a Raven and you were say painting the drones targets, you may find your drone survival rate much improved. I can't imagine that "no painters" is a very good fit for a raven, but I don't fly chuckers and have never really experimented with it. |
Lugia3
Emerald Inc.
802
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 06:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
PvP. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4070
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 06:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Did CCP retire Drone use?
You don't use drones. You let them off the leash and hope they do what you ask them to.
But they never do. Some things never change.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2295
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 07:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP hasn't completely retired drone use yet, but don't worry, they're working on it. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Direwolf-Rayet skylian Verge
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 07:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Medium drones in lvl4's became pretty much obsolete, especially for a Raven pilot. It's true, all NPC's got new Sleeper-ish AI (it's not like sleepers but close) and they will attack drones more often. It is especially noticeable when launching medium drones on a field that has frigate rats on it. Frigates will switch to killing medium drones in most cases.
The decision is based on CCP's vision that drones in missions should have a support role only instead of being a DPS boost (I've read that somewhere... some dev blog or dev post, I don't remember where).
On the other hand, cruise missile boost did well to compensate for that. A single target painter + precision cruise missiles deals even with advanced warp scrambling frigates quickly. Personally, I use 2 x Target painter setup, because I don't feel I need those 2 medium slots for tanking... Or a Target painter + Web setup. CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic |
|
Don Aubaris
60
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 08:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
That patch that changed NPC AI was not nice at all. You also found that out apparantly. I never AFK mission and I manage my drones actively. Before the patch I almost never lost a drone in missions. As it should be. Who develops and relies on a weapon system that can be shot down so easily? After the patch I lost alot more of them in the first missions then I found acceptable. They started to feel as very expensive ineffective missiles... But it's possible to adapt. Now I'm back to something that one can call 'normal', I assume I still loose a drone once in a while but it's again a rather rare event.
I'm no expert but here are some things that helped me :
* use light drones a lot more then you are used too. As long as 1 frig is out there, forget about deploying anything else. And while you get used to the new situation use them for the bigger targets too. Takes a bit more time, but reduces the overhead. I even started to leave medium's at home for a while : lights for small/medium targets. heavies once only BS are left. * start recalling them as soon as they take 1 hit. Forget about shield recovery etc.. * don't forget about Drone Navigation Computer : costs you a midslot ofc but it does seem to reduce your drone loss especially when you deploy them at bigger range. Although 'big' is relative. If I recall correctly even 15 km was 'big'
PS. They are talking about changing the drone UI since I started playing this game. It still hasn't happend. And that UI costs you drones. The UI should have changed before the behavior of the NPC's Would at least be more useful then all those new mobile thingies
|
Antihrist Pripravnik
Direwolf-Rayet skylian Verge
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 08:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Don Aubaris wrote: Before the patch I almost never lost a drone in missions. As it should be. Who develops and relies on a weapon system that can be shot down so easily? After the patch I lost alot more of them in the first missions then I found acceptable.
You're lucky if you lost only drones. I lost a Nighthawk in Minmatar epic arc right after that change. You know that mission when there are MWD-in Hyperions with insane DPS once they get close? Well, I haven't read the patch notes and this happened: - mistake #1: Heavy missiles were nerfed in that patch (Fury version the most). I thought I wouldn't need Precision missiles so I didn't have any in the cargo hold. - mistake #2: I thought drones would handle web/scram frigates, so I can keep the distance from the Hyperions;
When I got into the mission and launched drones, all 5 of them were gone in a matter of seconds. Web/scram frigs got to me fast and nerfed fury missiles couldn't even break a single frigate's tank. Battleships were there in a minute or two and just completed the work.
CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic |
Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Warfare Corp.
455
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
drones are fine and getting better , most staps ccp is making lately is to destroy the freaking afk world in eve wich is a good thing.(hello archon blob , hello lvl4 runner etc etc)
im still able to solo most 10/10 in a rattle snake relying heavyly on drones , i just need to play and watch my drones carefully.
eve is/was a very afk promoted game , in any other game i play as soon as i start to bake a cake i will die.
keep up the good work ccp
o/ The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Get into a ship with guns and a MJD. You won't need drones anymore. I found it very satisfactory to blap the frigs from 100km rather than playing the endless "drones out... drones in.. drones out.. drones - aw crap lost one!" game. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2425
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Don Aubaris wrote: Before the patch I almost never lost a drone in missions. As it should be.
Absolutely not. What is the point of a reward for these missions if they are entirely risk-free? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
702
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No, they did not. They just made it so that frigates are very keen on attacking the biggest threat against them, which for most L4 mission setups will be the drones.
There are many tricks to keeping your drones alive, ranging from just babysitting them something fierce to giving the frigates something else to be worried about (the AI has a fiery hatred of remote support effects and ewar, for instance) to just blowing the frigates up at range before they can threaten your drones.
Fiddling with the drone aggression settings won't do anything since that's not a deciding factor in whether they get attacked or not.
In addition to the above good advice is that elite rats switch targets more than non elite and esp hate drones. Non aggroed groups of rats vary in what will cause them to aggro. For some it is proximity, for some it is more capsuleer ships arriving and for some it is drones. Some missions it is hard to launch drones from a raven at all and some you can have them out and ignore them. Watch. learn, adapt. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Major Xadi
QuAD-F
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 12:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alice Ituin wrote:Get into a ship with guns and a MJD. You won't need drones anymore. I found it very satisfactory to blap the frigs from 100km rather than playing the endless "drones out... drones in.. drones out.. drones - aw crap lost one!" game.
Yep, this. A sniper fit ship, especially one with range bonuses like the apoc, can take out drones at 100k plus with infrared. And often you can get an instapop depending on the pirate npc factions resists to your guns. Then light drones can start on cruisers. When cruisers are gone, I send mediums after the bs. Occasionally I have to recall one. Not often. The MJD is vital for sniper fit. But really, drones are almost overkill with a sniper fit and good gunnery skills. Drones help however when the rats resists are good vs your damage type. Now, when you get a mission with spider drones, you really need your t2 lights. Sometimes I can pop them at range though. |
Ikshuki
Aliastra Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 13:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Drayona wrote:Sadayiel wrote:CCP updated some time Ago the AI of NPC to be like Sleeper.
So now NPC are a bit more smart and change their targets according to several factors, like ncoming dmg or logistic usage instead of 1st Agro focus fire and ignore everything also.
Or to put it short, you can use your drones but you better keep an eye of them instead use them as AFK mode.
In your cae i may suggest use them for short range and not send them to 30+Km where they can be destroyed before their return to the drone bay. I understand CCP wanted to stop the AFK thing....but....read what I said...I killed everything except last 5. (clearly, I am not AFK). I lock all targets, and fire 3 missiles on closest and 3 on 2nd closest. At this point, all are very close since distant ones were wiped out previously. So.... 5 remaining targets...all locked. 2 fired upon by my raven At this point, launch drones (set to passive) I engage either of the two targets I am firing upon..... Instant aggro...return to drone bay....one is 'stuck??....and does not make it back. 3 Separate L4's ...similar results. So, again I accept CCP wanting to shut down AFK, but as you can see...I can not use drones anymore. Keeping an eye on them will not help. No biggie I guess...just have to come up with another strategy to deal with the warp scramblers, and put all my drones into retirement.
they key is to use light drones for close range frigs, use sentry drones for rats no closer than 15km away, that's the new drone setup for L4s, takes a bloody longer time finishing missions, but that's how screwed droneboats has become since the chance, so you're better off going marauders, thanks ccp for that wasted drone training |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19225
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 13:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ikshuki wrote:they key is to use light drones for close range frigs, use sentry drones for rats no closer than 15km away, that's the new drone setup for L4s If it wasn't your drone setup before the changes, you were doing something wrong anyway.
So really, if people did something else and had to adapt, it probably sped them up, whereas for those who used drones properly, it made very little difference once the years of experience with the AI in w-space players had been tapped.
Quote:thanks ccp for that wasted drone training You mean the training that has been the FOTM for a fairly long time now? No, it's not wasted, even with the 1.1 balancing of omnilinks. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
507
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 13:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ikshuki wrote:they key is to use light drones for close range frigs, use sentry drones for rats no closer than 15km away, that's the new drone setup for L4s If it wasn't your drone setup before the changes, you were doing something wrong anyway.
exactly, mediums have been useless since they got their tracking nerfed years and years ago. and heavies were pretty much sub optimal since forever (Well at least as long as I've been playing).
I'm pretty sure only elite frigs go after light drones now, and well there really aren't all that many elite frigs out there. Then again I mostly fly gunboats and well... lol npc frigs. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
|
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
267
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 13:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lugalbandak wrote: eve is/was a very afk promoted game , in any other game i play as soon as i start to bake a cake i will die.
hahahahaha!
EvE online the game where you can bake a cake while playing! this should be their new ad Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19226
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 14:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm pretty sure only elite frigs go after light drones now, and well there really aren't all that many elite frigs out there. Then again I mostly fly gunboats and well... lol npc frigs. It's fairly easy to find out. You just need a decent database explorer that lists the NPC stats in a human-readable way.
Chruker is unfortunately two patches behind, but I don't think the NPCs have been changed in the mean-time anyway, so let's just look at this little fellow GÇö a frigate with this stat listed at the very end: AI_IgnoreDronesBelowSignatureRadius 50m.
He'll happily ignore light drones, whereas his elite counterpart (at 25m for the same stat) will kill the hell out of them. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2297
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 18:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Absolutely not. What is the point of a reward for these missions if they are entirely risk-free?
When was the last time a rat shot a turret off your ship?
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Frank Millar
433
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 19:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
I just did the first lvl4 mission in a long time, Silence the Informant, or somesuch, in a Gila with 1 DLA, 2 DDA's and no Omni.
One Bouncer sustained some armor damage because I was slow to retract them. Hobgoblin II's popped the incoming frigs and drones.
Drones are fine, but you need to pay attention. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2230
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 19:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Drones were a perfectly decent waepons system, then some dev got it into his head to wreck them by altering the AI to be hyper-aggressive towards drones (remember how that was supposed to be an iterative step...how's that working out?) Using mobile drones was eliminated from PvE with that nerf.
So people migrated to an inferior damage system , sentries. That did not sit well with the dev, because in his view, people in high sec were still making too much cash.
So using the excuse of needing eliminate a problem with blobs in null sec, he wiped out sentry use with the destruction of the omnidirectional module.
And that is where we stand today, where anyone who uses drones in PvE outside of a range bonused hull like the Ishtar and Domi, is utterly screwed. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
294
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 20:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Absolutely not. What is the point of a reward for these missions if they are entirely risk-free? When was the last time a rat shot a turret off your ship? The last time one said "Pull!" And I launched it off my ship like a clay pigeon. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Your Dad Naked
State War Academy Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 03:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:The decision is based on CCP's vision that drones in missions should have a support role only instead of being a DPS boost (I've read that somewhere... some dev blog or dev post, I don't remember where). Yeah I think you're right about this. Unfortunately it's gone and made drone boats bad for PVE. Dominix is fine I guess but Gila, Vexor Navy are both crap now.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19275
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 03:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Drones were a perfectly decent waepons system, then some dev got it into his head to wreck them by altering the AI to be hyper-aggressive towards drones (remember how that was supposed to be an iterative step...how's that working out?) Using mobile drones was eliminated from PvE with that nerf. Not really, no. They reduced the aggression the AI had towards drones by fiddling with the sig radius limits, which was really the only iteration needed. Beyond that, the strategies for keeping drones alive had been built up since Apocrypha and they remained a perfectly decent weapon system even back then.
Quote:So people migrated to an inferior damage system , sentries. GÇ£InferiorGÇ¥ in the sense that they do more damage more efficiently.
Quote:So using the excuse of needing eliminate a problem with blobs in null sec, he wiped out sentry use with the destruction of the omnidirectional module. GǪexcept of course that neither of those things actually happened. Sentry drone use is just as applicable now as it ever was and the omnilink is still in the game and fully funcitonal. The only difference now is that you can step it up and down depending on the relative distance to the target (which is actually kind of handy). And off couse, null blobbing had very pretty much nothing to do with the omnilink rebalancing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
166
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 03:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Never studied that drone attack sig radius or the other AI stats, thanks. My whole drone usage went out the window with that nerf. Tried it for a while and it just got to be a drag pulling them in with the drone interface. Still carry them but there just not as much fun to use now.
Omni nerf is livable on the Domi though I agree that drones are just two ships as far as subcaps go. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19276
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 04:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
GǪalso, finally being able to overheat drone stats? A-a-awesome. I can only hope they give us more GÇ£nerfsGÇ¥ like that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |