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Richard Shaw III
Kings of Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.28 18:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have played EVE since nearly the beginning and can't help but wonder why are there no pirate faction ships that use a missile damage bonus?
I would consider the theme of each pirate faction to be:
Angel = projectile with damage bonus Blood = laser with damage bonus Gurista = missile with drone damage bonus Sansha = laser with damage bonus Serpentis = hybrid with damage bonus Sisters = Laser with drone damage bonus
I would love if you the Dev's would comment to any regard of this. I would ask any Dev's consider something either during the rebalance pass that I assume is coming or expanding pirate factions to include a pirate faction for the "missile lovers" of EVE.
I look forward to reading anyone's comments or flames as it is something I have long wished to see in EVE. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
there is comment by CSM or Dev I think they state that they think about add new pirate ships that has in following: shield (didn't state but highly likely) Missile Caldari + Minimatar
but only after they are done with balance all ships |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Id love to see something caldari/gallante myself. Maybe a missile damage bonus + and active rep bonus. Thatd be really fun. |
I am disposable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
93
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Id love to see something caldari/gallante myself. Maybe a missile damage bonus + and active rep bonus. Thatd be really fun.
They aren't going to add another Caldari/Gallente faction. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Id love to see something caldari/gallante myself. Maybe a missile damage bonus + and active rep bonus. Thatd be really fun. it exist, and it is called Guristas ships very awesome passive shield ship that can use missile, however no bonus for missile (primary drone boat) |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
118
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
known feature, fozzie said he wants to do something. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
497
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Posted - 2014.01.28 20:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Id love to see something caldari/gallante myself. Maybe a missile damage bonus + and active rep bonus. Thatd be really fun.
Caldari+Gallente = Guristas.
Caldari/Minmatar would be interesting. Speedy missile boats with active shield bonuses.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Jaz Antollare
Deadly Loneliness
79
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Posted - 2014.01.28 21:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
My first thought was "Cuz missiles suck"
But in real, may be in the future, when there will be the promised pirate ship rebalance.
From the other side there is no Ammar + Caldari pirate faction. All other exist. |
Aurora Fatalis
Blacklight Recon
63
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Posted - 2014.01.28 22:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jaz Antollare wrote:My first thought was "Cuz missiles suck"
But in real, may be in the future, when there will be the promised pirate ship rebalance.
From the other side there is no Ammar + Caldari pirate faction. All other exist.
Sansha. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1023
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Posted - 2014.01.28 23:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
at this rate someone is going to ask for minnie/gal pirate faction because we dnt have one
There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
964
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Posted - 2014.01.28 23:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Missiles cause lag, hence the meta focus is on guns at ccp. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2014.01.28 23:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Caldari/Minmatar would be interesting. Speedy missile boats with active shield bonuses.
So, a cyclone then? |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
28
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Posted - 2014.01.28 23:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:Soldarius wrote:Caldari/Minmatar would be interesting. Speedy missile boats with active shield bonuses.
So, a cyclone then? Presumably to the same degree as a Machariel is a Tempest...
ETA: I'd love to see a pirate Typhoon/Raven with range and application for bonuses and a static damage bonus. |
Richard Shaw III
Kings of Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.29 06:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wow I really expected to see more in the way of hate mail for wishing for such a thing. If I were to have my way it would be something like this:
8 high slots 4 mid slots 8 low slots
37.5% damage bonus to cruise and torpedo damage 5% bonus to explosion radius caldari 5% bonus to armor repairer amount minmatar
8 missile hard points
large mass low speed large signature
basically it would be tanked like an armor fit minmatar ship but movement would be like a caldari ship not that i think this is ideal but trying to keep the dream grounded in something that would not be unbalanced
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Caljiav Ocanon
Deep Axion Black Ops Armada
27
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Posted - 2014.01.29 08:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Enough armor tanked ships in the game now, they had a hard enough time trying to be creative with the Nestor...
The new line definitely needs to be active shield and missile.
Gurista ships are passive shield drone boats.
As far as slots, it seems to range from 18 to 20 for the current hulls with the Nightmare drawing the short stick.
I actually expect this to be balanced, although how I don't know. It seems to be rather arbitrary as it is now so I'm not really sure how it'll play out or if Fozzie or Rise have even noticed this yet...and if they have does it even matter? It does make it harder to try and give any ideas on slots though for this mythical new pirate missile line.
I think either a 6H4L, 8M, 5L or 6H4L, 7M, 5L could work depending on if they settle for 19 or 20 slots. 5 lows could be useful for something like a 75/100 drone setup or as utility for a signal amp, damage control, etc.
As for bonuses, how about something like:
Role Bonus: Reloading time of Rapid Missile Launchers reduced to 10 seconds. 135% bonus to Cruise Missile damage 115% bonus to Torpedo damage 100% bonus to Heavy Missile damage (The Nestor has how many role bonuses again?)
Caldari bonus: 12.5% per level to velocity of Heavy Missiles, Cruise Missiles and Torpedoes
Minmatar bonus: 7.5% per level to Shield Boost amount
This would give the Pirate BS more DPS than the normal Caldari missile boats without going completely insane (I think).
This should give 1177 DPS for CMs, 1431 DPS for torps and 1108DPS for RHMLs if my math is right (I was never good at math). DPS numbers are calculated at all skills to V, +6% HWs and 4 tech II BCS fit. Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013
An engineering flowchart for the fledgling Minmatar pilot. http://i.imgur.com/Ws0m3a6.jpg |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2637
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Posted - 2014.01.29 09:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Minmatar specialise in target painters. Wouldn't that be more useful for a missile hull? Oh god. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1116
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Posted - 2014.01.29 09:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
There's a perfectly good line of shield-missile faction boats already. Sure, they're not pirate faction, but it hardly matters. We don't really need another set of shield-missile boats, so a future pirate missile line would be better off being armour.
OTOH, CCP said that they had some interesting plans for Guristas, or the Gila at least, so who knows how they'll end up. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
337
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Posted - 2014.01.29 09:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Good idea - use Sansha cruiser for this. It is worthless at current state. -=Reopening old corporations=- Do you have old and closed corporation and like to reopen it? Like this topic and keep it on the top by posting. |
Caljiav Ocanon
Deep Axion Black Ops Armada
27
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Posted - 2014.01.29 09:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
We just got a whole new line of armor tanked ships, ugh.
This whole game seems to favor armor for some inexplicable reason.
The Sansha line will remain "as-is" more than likely, it has been said that they are pretty happy with the Nightmare for example. The same has been said for the Rattlesnake. Meaning these lines are probably going to be tweaked but I doubt you'll see completely new roles for Sansha or Gurista ships. It has also already been stated that a missile pirate line is something they would like to do. I'm not sure why people think faction ship lines negate the need or otherwise reduce the want for a pirate ship line of the same vein either? This boggles my mind actually, more variety is good. Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013
An engineering flowchart for the fledgling Minmatar pilot. http://i.imgur.com/Ws0m3a6.jpg |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2637
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Posted - 2014.01.29 09:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Didn't Guristas used to be missile ships before they became drone ships? Now that there are SoE ships (and drone users are trained for armour, not shield), I can see them switching over to missiles. Maybe missile/damp boats. Oh god. |
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1116
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Posted - 2014.01.29 12:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Caljiav Ocanon wrote: I'm not sure why people think faction ship lines negate the need or otherwise reduce the want for a pirate ship line of the same vein either? This boggles my mind actually, more variety is good.
The point is that a shield-missile pirate faction isn't introducing more variety, because, as described, they're clones of the CN ships. The only way to get it to work would to give them some special ability that sets them apart from the CN ships. It's worth noting that the successful pirate factions generally have this - mobility for Angels, neuts and webs for Blood Raiders and webs for Serpentis, while the lacklustre ones are simply basic gank 'n' tank ships with no special abilities. A shield-missile pirate faction could work, but it would need a similar defining feature.
But what would that be? If we're talking Minmatar-Caldari hybrids where shield makes much more sense than armour, then a painter bonus is possible but lame, frankly. A web range bonus would work well, but it already exists on other pirate faction ships. I don't think anyone wants ECM bonuses, although an ECM Burst bonus would be amusing, briefly, before becoming hilariously annoying. If I had to choose one I'd take the web range bonus. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1024
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
are they happy with the nightmare? damn
i hear sansha used to be armoured missile boats but got the swapsies into some kinda pre marauders.
doubt it would be a good idea to swap them back now that sansha blob ppl in incursions.
How's about an active tank missile gal/amarr combo with point range bonus? ill take my likes now thanks There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2014.01.29 20:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:There's a perfectly good line of shield-missile faction boats already. Sure, they're not pirate faction, but it hardly matters. We don't really need another set of shield-missile boats, so a future pirate missile line would be better off being armour.
OTOH, CCP said that they had some interesting plans for Guristas, or the Gila at least, so who knows how they'll end up.
well, they indeed can make Guristas Missile-based ship again there are now 2 drone bonus pirate ship line 2 Laser bonus Pirate ship line 1 Hybrid bonus pirate ship line 1 Projectile bonus pirate ship line
I find example of CCP Fozzie comment on it
Quote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3990632#post3990632 |
elitatwo
Congregatio
199
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Posted - 2014.01.29 20:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote: ... OTOH, CCP said that they had some interesting plans for Guristas, or the Gila at least,...
Uhoh!!
Translation:
Guristas get a fourty second reload after one shield boost and call it interesting gameplay signature |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2014.01.29 21:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
The comment about the Gila was made while the Stratios still had 125 bandwidth and outclassed the Gila in every possible way. Now that it's been nerfed I expect they'll leave the Gila in its current state, used by pretty much nobody |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
465
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Id love to see something caldari/gallante myself. Maybe a missile damage bonus + and active rep bonus. Thatd be really fun.
Edit: Should have specified armor active rep bonus.
Active armor repair bonus on something that requires Caldari skills makes me convulse.
To be honest I think Guristas should shrug off being drone ships (that's the SOE's role now IMO), and should become missile brawlers. Extreme tank, great damage, not necessarily very good base velocity but light hulls so MWDs actually help them get into range. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
369
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Caljiav Ocanon wrote: I'm not sure why people think faction ship lines negate the need or otherwise reduce the want for a pirate ship line of the same vein either? This boggles my mind actually, more variety is good. The point is that a shield-missile pirate faction isn't introducing more variety, because, as described, they're clones of the CN ships. The only way to get it to work would to give them some special ability that sets them apart from the CN ships. It's worth noting that the successful pirate factions generally have this - mobility for Angels, neuts and webs for Blood Raiders and webs for Serpentis, while the lacklustre ones are simply basic gank 'n' tank ships with no special abilities. A shield-missile pirate faction could work, but it would need a similar defining feature. But what would that be? If we're talking Minmatar-Caldari hybrids where shield makes much more sense than armour, then a painter bonus is possible but lame, frankly. A web range bonus would work well, but it already exists on other pirate faction ships. I don't think anyone wants ECM bonuses, although an ECM Burst bonus would be amusing, briefly, before becoming hilariously annoying. If I had to choose one I'd take the web range bonus.
This basically.
the turret pirates have something to standout from the rank and file. Looking at the gallente line for example in the navy redo navy mega switched to ROF so that vindi's damage bonus stood out.
Missiles this really can't be done. Looking at the caldari missile boats most fhe bases have been covered.
Tank. Want active go golem. But it in bastion, get resists as well. SNI....resists as well. And ratttler (we as a group can argue drone boat till cows come home....it fits missiles however).
Missiles/weapons: SNI, Golem, CNR, Rattler, again share all its of missiles common bonuses to them. Only bonus not touched is 5% per level damage. It would either be the contentious kinetic only one (not gonna argue that here, threads exist for it) or the cold realization ccp does not give out this bonus at BS level. If they did I imagine launcher numbers would be gimped. My proof...CNR. Its rebalance killed the mathematical extra launchers it had. Why turret boats get this I do not know. Well if you like wearing tin hats put it on and say CCP hates missiles but that is just my biased opinion lol.
Your e-war route you mention is a problem as well. ECM burst a good bonus. But its on scorpion already. Rare are the people who actually use this ability on them now. Scorpion doing this for much cheaper also has to be considered imo.
Webs I'd see useful but also not. TBH to be in range for use barring ccp getting thier ass in gear to fix missiles I'd still take blasterthron (and all its variants) over web bonused torps. This would be even lacking bonuses ccp has eroded over ttime on gallente side.
TL;DR current pirates stand out from their peers. A new pirate BS would have to have this. TBH if a new caldari baed pirate boat were to come online I'd predict and be quite content if it was hybrid based. As a bonused hybrid platform at the bs level is lacking for them. CCP started this slippery slope with naga, the BC that had caldari gun pilots going ohhh, this is what having damage bonuses and tracking is like. |
Richard Shaw III
Kings of Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.30 06:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Caljiav Ocanon wrote: I'm not sure why people think faction ship lines negate the need or otherwise reduce the want for a pirate ship line of the same vein either? This boggles my mind actually, more variety is good. The point is that a shield-missile pirate faction isn't introducing more variety, because, as described, they're clones of the CN ships. The only way to get it to work would to give them some special ability that sets them apart from the CN ships. It's worth noting that the successful pirate factions generally have this - mobility for Angels, neuts and webs for Blood Raiders and webs for Serpentis, while the lacklustre ones are simply basic gank 'n' tank ships with no special abilities. A shield-missile pirate faction could work, but it would need a similar defining feature. But what would that be? If we're talking Minmatar-Caldari hybrids where shield makes much more sense than armour, then a painter bonus is possible but lame, frankly. A web range bonus would work well, but it already exists on other pirate faction ships. I don't think anyone wants ECM bonuses, although an ECM Burst bonus would be amusing, briefly, before becoming hilariously annoying. If I had to choose one I'd take the web range bonus. This basically. the turret pirates have something to standout from the rank and file. Looking at the gallente line for example in the navy redo navy mega switched to ROF so that vindi's damage bonus stood out. Missiles this really can't be done. Looking at the caldari missile boats most fhe bases have been covered. Tank. Want active go golem. But it in bastion, get resists as well. SNI....resists as well. And ratttler (we as a group can argue drone boat till cows come home....it fits missiles however). Missiles/weapons: SNI, Golem, CNR, Rattler, again share all its of missiles common bonuses to them. Only bonus not touched is 5% per level damage. It would either be the contentious kinetic only one (not gonna argue that here, threads exist for it) or the cold realization ccp does not give out this bonus at BS level. If they did I imagine launcher numbers would be gimped. My proof...CNR. Its rebalance killed the mathematical extra launchers it had. Why turret boats get this I do not know. Well if you like wearing tin hats put it on and say CCP hates missiles but that is just my biased opinion lol. Your e-war route you mention is a problem as well. ECM burst a good bonus. But its on scorpion already. Rare are the people who actually use this ability on them now. Scorpion doing this for much cheaper also has to be considered imo. Webs I'd see useful but also not. TBH to be in range for use barring ccp getting thier ass in gear to fix missiles I'd still take blasterthron (and all its variants) over web bonused torps. This would be even lacking bonuses ccp has eroded over ttime on gallente side. TL;DR current pirates stand out from their peers. A new pirate BS would have to have this. TBH if a new caldari baed pirate boat were to come online I'd predict and be quite content if it was hybrid based. As a bonused hybrid platform at the bs level is lacking for them. CCP started this slippery slope with naga, the BC that had caldari gun pilots going ohhh, this is what having damage bonuses and tracking is like.
Why would they make another Hybrid based Pirate BS hull when you have the Vindicator which is the end all be all for Hybrid DPS?
You say a new Pirate BS would have to stand out from their peers, and yet there are damage bonused BS hulls for every type of damage except MISSILES. So tell me again how this is "covered"?
I assume you are just trolling but if you were not aware the highest dps BS hull for missiles only use is the Typhoon Fleet Issue. It can get about 5% to 10% more missile DPS than any of the Caldari BS hulls. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
369
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Posted - 2014.01.30 07:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Richard Shaw III wrote:You say a new Pirate BS would have to stand out from their peers, and yet there are damage bonused BS hulls for every type of damage except MISSILES. So tell me again how this is "covered"?
I assume you are just trolling but if you were not aware the highest dps BS hull for missiles only use is the Typhoon Fleet Issue. It can get about 5% to 10% more missile DPS than any of the Caldari BS hulls.
It was covered under the tin foil hat needed that ccp hates missiles. YOu will most likely never see this. You'd have to ask ccp why. This afaik has never even been a what the hell....try it on sisi bonus. And many things they have thought of have been there even if only to die there and never go beyond testing. Navy BS rebalance when ccp pulled rof on CNR they could have put damage there. they gave it its current bonus.
Now why say gallente gets to keep tracking and damage boosting bonuses (rof or raw damage) ccp has never commented on. Why, imo, you don't need much tin foil to make that hat lol. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
499
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Posted - 2014.01.30 09:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Min \ Caldari will most likely be missiles / shield based. I also reckon they will have a battleship with a shield replying bonus. Allowing for an equivalent to the Nestor. As it currently stands there is no rr shield replying battleship and that is a hole that needs to be solved. |
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