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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.20 15:43:00 -
[31]
Battlecruisers are fun.
Think of them as capital ships for frigate wolfpacks, and you'll be thinking along the right lines.
no skills, just luck.
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.03.20 15:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter i was to lazy to read all this so O RLY ?
YARLY!
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.03.20 15:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad I'm loving my ferox. Its a tanking ship like no other I've had. Hard to fit?!
I'm really speaking of the Brutix here, I should have been more clear. I can fit a Prophecy no problem. I've never tried fitting a Cyclone or Ferox - I don't know a thing about shield tanking yet.
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
If you have the isk why are you making this post? I am confused, your asking us to justify why people use battlecruisers yet your saying our reasons are not good enough for you and you are not happy with them being the sole reason. Sorta like saying "nope! nope! the sky isnt blue I dont believe thats even a colour". ISK is about the only reason you'd buy a T1 BC, granted warfare link modules are handy but if your going to be gang orientated get yourself into a T2 one at least.
Relax, mate! I'm making the post simply because I wanted to: 1. see more discussion on the real role of a BC 2. see why people are so against using a BS in a level 3 mission (I've SEEN people who are dead against it - apparently they aren't showing themselves in this thread)
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.03.20 15:54:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Necroth battlecruisers just do the trick with lvl3 missions. its a kind of progression... pvp is different, you need high skills to fit them properlly. (and also know, and understand where to use them and why, nnoob)
Read the OP. I understand completely where and why to use them - which is one of the reasons I'm challenging their applicability in solo applications in the first place.
However, it seems that people really like using their BCs solo - so, cool! Use what you have for what you want to use it for!
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Hysenthlay
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Posted - 2006.03.20 16:09:00 -
[35]
I fly my Cyclone because I have the skills to. I am training for my Phoon.
The move from cruiser to BC was easy as I had all the skills I needed.
If you have followed the development of the Phoon you will see why I am not flying it just yet heh, I have alot of work to get done first.
A BC is a great ship to have in your hanger.
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Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.03.20 16:11:00 -
[36]
You have a platform that does more damage than a Hac, tanks better than most Hacs, and has large amounts of cap due to cap boosters. What more do you want from a 22M ship? In my minds eye the Brutix is probably the most potent pvp BC out there atm, just don't expect to go toe to toe with the close range BSs, your 300 sig radius will be the end of you.
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Taerenius
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Posted - 2006.03.20 16:37:00 -
[37]
I fly a Raven to rat but I absolutely love flying my ferox for PvP and heres why:
It can easily kill any cruiser (cruiser guns = full damage to cruisers, much more hp/tanking ability than a cruiser, etc) The Ferox at least can stand up to BS guns long enough to easily take out support ships It can kill frigates easily, including assault frigates (cruiser guns still do decent damage to frigates, im using heavy missiles, and I can also fit a full load of 5 T2 light drones) If at some later stage I choose to, I can train to use a gang assist module to be even more valuable to a large fleet
Basically the BC allows me to be EXTREMELY flexible and useful in almost all situations.
As far as the OP stating BCs can take as much or more training to fly effectively than a BS I have no clue how he came to that conclusion... a battlecruiser uses almost all cruiser modules, so technically to fly one well you basically are training the same skills as you would to fly a cruiser well, which takes FAR less time than training battleship skills.
This is also why I like flying the BC in PvP, I can train skills related to piloting it better MUCH faster than comparable skills for the battleship.
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Manion Taleroth
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Posted - 2006.03.20 16:39:00 -
[38]
I can't wait to get my Prophecy. Fit small guns on one and you have an interceptor murder machine.
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Astrum Ludus
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Posted - 2006.03.20 17:14:00 -
[39]
A lot of people look at the raw stats on BCs and rubbish them, but you can tell from the posts here and from chatter in game that almost everyone that uses a BC loves it. I know I loved mine. They're just tough ships with a lot of bite and for level III's they are perfect. Only comment I'd make about them in PvP is that as tough as they are you're gonna get hit every time with BS guns and taken out fast.
Btw Xori to get 400m in the bank in 2 months doing level II missions you must have been spending a lot of time at the keyboard!
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.03.20 18:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Astrum Ludus Btw Xori to get 400m in the bank in 2 months doing level II missions you must have been spending a lot of time at the keyboard!
Not really... only play a couple hours per evening and on weekends. I loot as much as I can, sell some things (those local hull cargo expanders sell nicely, as do several mining lasers I've found), sell implants from LP rewards that I don't really need (only really need a couple of implants right now for learning skills). Dogtags also sell nicely. I've managed to strike a nice balance between loot time and minimal time per mission.
Got a Military Connections book that I sold, too - though I regret selling it, I really should have learned it, since it would mean more money in the future. Oh well, live and learn - I'm sure I can find one on the market for cheaper than what I sold it for.
FWIW - I'm thinking of switching to Amarr ships for the time being, and I imagine I'll enjoy my Prophecy (not going to bother with Amarr cruisers, I really don't like the look of the Maller).
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Jarem Alistor
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:09:00 -
[41]
Okay I must be missing something here.
I have a 'clone that I love. And atm it's fitted well enough to decimate level 2 missions with no problem whatsoever...
However - when I was /trying/ to fly level 3 missions I got, basically, pwned.
There were quite a few missions that I'd warp in and only be able to take out one ship before having to warp away, spending the next 15 minutes repping the damage - armor/hull reps in cargo to be fit in the station. I realize most people say use a large shield ext instead of a medium and I can definately understand that now.
However my question is this - why is it so akward a progression in missions? I suppose that's my own problem but - how long have most of you been playing before moving onto level 3 missions?
-Jarem
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Manion Taleroth
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:14:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Manion Taleroth on 21/03/2006 05:14:55
Originally by: Jarem Alistor Okay I must be missing something here.
I have a 'clone that I love. And atm it's fitted well enough to decimate level 2 missions with no problem whatsoever...
However - when I was /trying/ to fly level 3 missions I got, basically, pwned.
There were quite a few missions that I'd warp in and only be able to take out one ship before having to warp away, spending the next 15 minutes repping the damage - armor/hull reps in cargo to be fit in the station. I realize most people say use a large shield ext instead of a medium and I can definately understand that now.
However my question is this - why is it so akward a progression in missions? I suppose that's my own problem but - how long have most of you been playing before moving onto level 3 missions?
-Jarem
I'm not seeing an akwardness in the progression based off your story. You're using a Battlecruiser to decimate level 2s. A Battlecruiser SHOULD decimate level 2s. The ability to accomplish that speaks nothing about how "well" you can or can not fit the ship.
I can't speak for what you should do or how long you can wait, all I'm saying is that you have an odd expectation. A well fit Destroyer can do level 2 missions.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:32:00 -
[43]
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 21/03/2006 05:32:18
Cyclone owns anything below battleship in PvP.
Period.
Yes, even HACs, in fact, BCs ARE the AntiHAC
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vylana
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:41:00 -
[44]
"However my question is this - why is it so akward a progression in missions? I suppose that's my own problem but - how long have most of you been playing before moving onto level 3 missions?"
I started doing level 3s the moment my 14 day trial was over and I trained battlecruiser to level 1 ;p Never had any trouble at all in my Ferox doing level 3s.
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Berrik Radhok
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:47:00 -
[45]
A Prophecy that's half-decently fitted will kill anything it fights except T2 BCs, Curses, Ishtars, and battleships.
Currently I use the following setup, and it just eats everything I've run into so far alive:
Highs 5 x 220mm vulcan w/EMP M, 2 x med nos Meds 10mn AB II, webber, 20km scrambler Lows Med armor rep II, 2 x energized adaptive nano membrane, 1 x named DC, named 1600mm plate (rolled tungsten ftw), cap relay
Taking compensation skills into account, two energized adaptive nanos + DC give you better resists than active hardeners do, and if you use rolled tungsten you'll have more armor than most battleships.
My prey of choice in this thing are stupid Thorax, Ishkur, and Enyo pilots... there are a lot of them who just MWD into range thinking my big fat BC will be an easy kill.
About the only thing you'd want to watch out for probably (besides BS) are sniping Cerbs and Eagles. Havn't run into either yet, though.
If you want to try this setup, replace with T2 gear where you can.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.03.21 07:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv snip
BCs, while rarely used for such, is a very nice ship for boosting gang bonuses, or utterly stomping the **** out of level 3 missions.
Ferox + 3 t3 large extenders + 2-4 shield relays = passive tank ftw ( dont forget 2 hardeners and some weapons ).
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Sku1ly
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
For example: 6x Focused Medium Beam II 1x Med Nos II
3x Cap Charger II
2x Medium Rep II 3x Hardener IIs 1x CPR
That's my setup for Sanshas NPCing, fit five light drones too for the faster frigates and it's great.
I get 82%EM and 86% Thermal resistances, and thats with a crappy battlecruisers skill level too.
STK-S Website |
Liet Traep
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:36:00 -
[48]
One thing a lot of people forget is that BC's were a late addition to the game coming out in the Exodus patch. BC's aren't a must you can skip them easily. but they are fun and a cost effective alternatives to HACs. I've used a prophecy sewveral times in pvp and enjoyed it.
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:01:00 -
[49]
There is more to EVE than just missions, you know.
I like to fly a Brutix in small PvP engagements at close range, due to the very high damage output. Why risk something larger or more expensive when something as cheap as a BC does the job perfectly well?
A Brutix with a 7 heavy ions, 5 T2 medium drones, a cap injector, and a half-decent armour tank will tear apart *any* HAC at close range.
The DPS can be insane.
------------------ The ISS Navy is recruiting.
See this thread for further details.
www.eve-iss.com |
Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Cyclone owns anything below battleship in PvP.
Not a Brutix. Bye bye cyclone.
------------------ The ISS Navy is recruiting.
See this thread for further details.
www.eve-iss.com |
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zoturi
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Cyclone owns anything below battleship in PvP.
Not a Brutix. Bye bye cyclone.
blasters? NOT
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: zoturi
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Cyclone owns anything below battleship in PvP.
Not a Brutix. Bye bye cyclone.
blasters? NOT
...which means what exactly?
------------------ The ISS Navy is recruiting.
See this thread for further details.
www.eve-iss.com |
Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:37:00 -
[53]
Ferox can run a mean tank. and with bonuses to resistances per level of BC it gains some tank resists over a BS id imagine.
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Rib0
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:50:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Butter Dog
A Brutix with a 7 heavy ions, 5 T2 medium drones, a cap injector, and a half-decent armour tank will tear apart *any* HAC at close range.
The DPS can be insane.
i would think a blaster eagle would stand a pretty good chance vs that
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Dreez
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:52:00 -
[55]
Imo the BCs and Gangmods are among the most useless stuff in EVE atm. Come on... weŚre talking about a lousy +2%/rank that those gangmods gives. OMFG i got +10% more resistanse when some poor dude actually decided to train for weeks and actually brings a BC to the fleet.
Gangmods are rubbish, so are BCs.
Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
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Uglious
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Posted - 2006.03.22 15:30:00 -
[56]
One of the interesting points in the game is that you can take your time progressing up the chain from small->med->large->capital OR you can stop at any level and specialize in the weapons and ships at that level. Many people think that they should just keep going up the chain, but you don't to be effective. I've chosen to specialize at the med level, and have trained up along the lines of cruisers->hac/bc->command ships. In doing so, I have a setup my corpies drool over, can provide fleet support even if I'm in a safespot, and can help take out frig fleets with ease.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.03.22 16:09:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: zoturi
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Cyclone owns anything below battleship in PvP.
Not a Brutix. Bye bye cyclone.
blasters? NOT
...which means what exactly?
I'd like to know too. I think hes been sniffing too much fumes from all the duct tape holding his ship together.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.03.22 16:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Uglious In doing so, I have a setup my corpies drool over, can provide fleet support even if I'm in a safespot.
Gangmods, unlike gang skills, only work if you are in the same grid. I find my claymore's bonuses to be ok, but nothing special.
sgb
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.22 16:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: zoturi
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Cyclone owns anything below battleship in PvP.
Not a Brutix. Bye bye cyclone.
blasters? NOT
...which means what exactly?
3x Med nos + longer falloff = dead brutix :>
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.03.22 17:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv As with other posts I've made before, I'll get this out of the way right up front: I'm a noob.
Now then.
I have been looking at the Battlecruisers a lot lately. I'm starting to wonder what exactly their role is. They appear to take a lot of skills to even fit, let alone fly adequately. In fact, it initially appears to me that a Battlecruiser might - in some cases - require more skills to use properly than a Battleship.
I'm glad you pointed out that these ships do in fact require a large amount of skills.
More than a Battleship? I would say not, but all the skills that you need are easy to ignore if you want to pilot either a BC or a BS.
The only ship category in the whole of EVE that forces you to train your support skills to a reasonable lvl are Assault Ships followed by Heavy Assault Ships.
If you look at the skill requiremens for a HAS and you have those under your belt before you acquire a BS, then I'd say you're in very good shape.
My choice of training was: frigate > cruiser > battlecruiser > as > has > bs
Somewhere along that path I trained for a Destroyer, but I can say that having the skills for HAS has really helped all of my ships no end, and I only got into my first BS after more than a year of training.
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv So another question: Why use battlecruisers for missions, unless it is a group effort on a mission? It seems to me that getting into a battleship with a solid foot in weapon skills, fitting skills, and tanking skills would serve fine for level 3 missions. Why are some people so vehemently opposed to this?
Obviously using a cruiser for something like Black Market Hub or Portal To War lvl 3 will seriously test your skills and your wallet (cruiser will probably go pop more than not). Hence using a BC with increased HP all around affords you some extra protection for the harder lvl3s.
Using a BS is overkill and will probably lead people into a false sense of security thinking that they are ok and can do all sorts of things with thier behemoth.
It's a simple mater of economics when deciding BC or BS. 25mill + 9mill insurance or 110mill + 30 mill insurance. This doesn't even include your modules, so it's more profitable to do them in a BC fully fitted than in an uninsured BS which you could loose on a lvl 3 if you make a mistake.
At the end of the day it's your time and money that you're using so play the way you like and not the way you perceive everyone else does.
Just have fun is the best answer.
Justice
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