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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.17 01:21:00 -
[31]
while i like the 5 sec relod time idea, it would be a rather fundamental change and would also improve tiers that are largely fine, also the benfeits gained still dont make the top tier worth fitting over the 2nd tier
this idea is worth discussing in overall balancing minmatar against the other races but as a tool for balancing the top tier against the other tiers, it is not that good (still like the idea ^^)
the doubling of the clip size provides a small boost, but doesnt really make them worth fitting over the 2nd tier in my eyes
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Kai Lae
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Posted - 2006.03.17 01:29:00 -
[32]
Boost magazine size. This is actually a projectile issue in the overall sense, since the arty need the same thing. Of course, you could also reduce the size of the ammo, which might be easier to do.
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gron alt
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Posted - 2006.03.17 01:34:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: gron alt
Originally by: Sarmaul And that goes triple for Gronsak and his band of merry alts.
yarrrrr, didnt notice my lack of posts sarm? i left the game few weeks back.
anyways good luck with ur boost the arts campain
how come?
game got a tad too boring and repetitive for me
was in the same ship with the same setup doing the same thing for nearly 9months, and the general eve population sucks at pvp so wining 99/100 encounters got boring too.
And THB thinking about AC vs Blasters vs pulse and getting to play with each a lot before I left gotta say AC do share some of the **** traits of blasters.
You got crappy damage and more so because well none of you mini pilots really trained t2 drones and got good drone skills.
Talking about close range weapons on the ships each one has a sweet spot atm imo
Tempest: AC/2L nos/armor tank/ew great for the solo and under 7vs7 [thatĘs bs only donĘt count support] Gedden: mega pulse ./ armor tank/ drones great for 3vs3 to like 250vs250 Megathron: blasters/armor tank/ drones uber for the 5vs5-10vs10 where its highest DPS means that u are really hurting the other side until of course you get locked and insta-die
Imo at the moment its not too bad, kinda took me to leave the game to figure it out. But gedden seems on par with the tempest, each one having strengths the other does [temp easy to setup, nice tank, nice ew in mids, no cap guns, choose dmg type, speed, sig] [ gedden lots of optimal, can align, more damage, more drone bay, mwd/ab not required Mega [best damage, good tracking, good drone bay]
Anyways I might be back for kail or when ever it is they are bringing out tier 3BS, til then you guys got 1 less galante supporter to deal with :P
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Octavio Santillian
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Posted - 2006.03.17 02:01:00 -
[34]
Kudos to Sarmaul for an extremely thorough and focused post.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.03.17 02:01:00 -
[35]
Sarmaul, very.. very well done. ♥ --------------
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Elrich Zann
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Posted - 2006.03.17 03:28:00 -
[36]
Excellent post and discussion Sarmaul. The 5 second reload may upset the balance with other BS's too much, but the larger mag seems to be rather harmless. The numbers don't lie, you hardly ever see top tier AC's being used.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2006.03.17 06:19:00 -
[37]
I could see increasing clip size (or decrease ammo size) for a token amount of cap used.
Otherwise your rounds have to pack more explosive to move the recoil loading mechanism.
Eunoia: The persistent suspicion that the universe is secretly conspiring to quietly improve one's life. |
fmercury
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Posted - 2006.03.17 07:21:00 -
[38]
Why not just give them a better damage mod?
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.03.17 07:58:00 -
[39]
Nice topic and very well writen Sarmaul. I learned a bit about autocannons.
Now I am a total ignorant about guns (except rails) as I am a Caldari missile user. So I appologize if I screw this up for lack of information.
As I understand, projectile ammo has various size ? I mean you fit different number of emp than e.g. depleted uranium in the same gun right ?
Then what about making all the projectile ammo in one size class the same volume ? I think hybrid ammo works this way and with similar clip size reductions from lower to higher caliber guns and there are no problems.
Now the deciding factor is reload time, so we need to make the guns fire longer on one magazine. This can be done by increasing clip size AND/OR changing ammo volume. ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.17 09:14:00 -
[40]
oooo we have tux looking at the forum atm :)
any chance you could tell us if this is by design (the autocannons, not you looking at the forum), and if so, WHY?!!?!?
ta
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Sentille
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Posted - 2006.03.17 10:50:00 -
[41]
great post as usual Sarmaul.
which of the figures you have presented shows both the increased magazine size and 5 sec reload? If its the red figures then the 2dps general improvement still to my mind doesn't warrant using the top tier guns due to fitting requirements they have.
4 x 220mm II's on a rupture will mean 440 grid and 88 cpu 4 x 425mm II's on a rupture will mean 616 grid and 100 cpu
an additional 176 grid and 12 cpu for 8dps (using 4 guns) and the rupture only has 860 grid to start with (yes I know eng 5 etc etc, can't do the maths for all that sorry)
I would propose a little love for top tier auto's in a number of areas to see if the sum makes them better overall.
e.g. (using the 425mm example) reduce fitting to 140 grid and 24 cpu (from 154/25) reduce ROF from 3.75 to 3.55 increase dmg mod from 2.31 to 2.5 make tracking slightly better, currently 0.1056 increase the falloff from 8000m (same as 220mm btw) to 9000m
tbh I'm not sure what difference this would make in real terms but I feel improving the gun overall would be better than just a big hit on dmg mod or ROF for example.
bigger mags ftw for sure!
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Aba Tor
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Posted - 2006.03.17 10:56:00 -
[42]
Great work!! Caldari missile user in the process of skilling for autocannon minmatar here :) and maybe by the time i finish my skills for ac and min ships the changes will be in effect :P... fingers crossed. I see a general problem with autocannons: very high rof that depletes ammo stock fast, maybe an increase in dmg mod across the board to autos and a decrease in rof could prove effective without imbalancing. ... A wise man never plays TAG with a RINO |
Brute Helmet
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Posted - 2006.03.17 11:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Brute Helmet on 17/03/2006 11:27:28 Very comprehensive, Sarmaul.
Another suggestion is just to up the damage mod of the top tier autos by 5-10% making them worthwhile that way. Autocannons eat way to much ammo as it is. I run through many thousands of rounds per hour while NPC:ing in my Muninn.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.17 11:29:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Nafri on 17/03/2006 11:29:46 funny afterall that thy boost Tachyons cause the reason to fit them was too small
anyway, just increase the DPS on the bigger autocannons by 5-10%
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.03.17 11:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: keepiru Wow, thats certainly very conclusive. Good work man.
agreed, wtg sarmaul
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2006.03.17 12:11:00 -
[46]
Very good Samual, certainly made me realise a few things I have not before about autocannons, the high level ones do indeed appear to be pointless to fit, at least for pvp.
However, I have no idea why this is, i mean surely they (devs) must know about it? - Rise.
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Dark Eulogy
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Posted - 2006.03.17 12:14:00 -
[47]
switching from emp to fusion for shield to armor faster would be extremely practical even if it doesnt show up on the numbers as being so... i rarely drain a whole clip with my dual 180s but the 10 secs to switch is often a killer
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Necroth
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Posted - 2006.03.17 13:38:00 -
[48]
i can take down a battlecruiser with 4 220mm and 4x80 bullets... i think you're not supposed to take in count the reloading time during a fight, maybe in a big battle but even in a 2v1 or 1v1 you never have to empty your magazine before dying or killing the opponenet. dont try to kill somone in more than 3mins :p fit damage mods, no tnank, kill fast or die -------- Necroth |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.03.17 13:59:00 -
[49]
Originally by: keepiru Wow, thats certainly very conclusive. Good work man.
indeed it is, and I totally agree with the clip size increase proposed to the top-tier AC's, since it's more than explained that that's the only problem with them. ----------------
Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.03.17 14:27:00 -
[50]
Good post sarmaul.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.03.17 14:27:00 -
[51]
Wow, you werent kidding when you said daddy of all whine threads - you have even more free time than I do :)
My proposals to fix autocannons are still along these lines:
Smaller ammo size -> Better than larger clip size as also lets us carry more ammo, which we really need too.
Less RoF, more Damage per shot -> Alleviates ammo problems further. Also, imo, should be arranged to increase the overall base DPS of autocannons by around 5%-7.5% (these numbers are from last time I looked at AC DPS compared with others)
There used to be a sig here, but I got bored of it.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.03.17 14:31:00 -
[52]
If I put 3-4 dmg mods on a 800mm T2 tempest and load them with hail, there will be no reloading required.
The other big advantage of using the bigger guns is that you use less ammo, which is nice when using t2 ammo.
I wouldn't complain if they got boosted, but there are much bigger problems to worry about in eve.
Shamis
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PointStore
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Posted - 2006.03.17 14:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz If I put 3-4 dmg mods on a 800mm T2 tempest and load them with hail, there will be no reloading required.
The other big advantage of using the bigger guns is that you use less ammo, which is nice when using t2 ammo.
I wouldn't complain if they got boosted, but there are much bigger problems to worry about in eve.
Shamis
couldnt agree more
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.03.17 14:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: gron alt
Originally by: Sarmaul And that goes triple for Gronsak and his band of merry alts.
yarrrrr, didnt notice my lack of posts sarm? i left the game few weeks back.
anyways good luck with ur boost the arts campain
thats sad, i would recruit you any day, top notch player :)
"We brake for nobody"
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.03.17 15:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: gron alt
Originally by: Sarmaul And that goes triple for Gronsak and his band of merry alts.
yarrrrr, didnt notice my lack of posts sarm? i left the game few weeks back.
anyways good luck with ur boost the arts campain
WOOT!
No, but seriously, good players leaving the game is never good :S Come back and argue with me.
There used to be a sig here, but I got bored of it.
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Soyemia
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Posted - 2006.03.17 15:08:00 -
[56]
All minmatars are doomed :(. We can't never get as good stuffs as others :(. Maybe CCP should demonlish minmatars or put text that I put on other thread.
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Zeno Kang
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Posted - 2006.03.17 15:51:00 -
[57]
How about a new logistical rapid-reloader module with a new gunnery skill that reduces reload times by 10% per level and/or increases the magazine size by 5% per level?
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Smartacus
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Posted - 2006.03.17 16:22:00 -
[58]
How about.
CCP gets rid of RELOADING in any way, shape or form.
No reloading what so ever for any race.
I mean c'mon we are flying highly advanced spaceships in freakin space.
Yet i need to reload my gun
Just get rid of it. Will solve a lot of these underpowered guns.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.17 16:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 17/03/2006 16:25:24 @Gron ... you obviously haven't played in the right systems. Come to Catch and give it a try. Its like the wild west out here and suprisingly enough... the outlaws are pretty organized. You don't need to leave us...
Kay is very sad
@Sarm... Good post. I think the bigger clip on 800mm would be good.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.03.17 16:27:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Uther Doull on 17/03/2006 16:28:20 that would just be another skill that every1 has at 5
Originally by: Smartacus How about.
CCP gets rid of RELOADING in any way, shape or form.
No reloading what so ever for any race.
I mean c'mon we are flying highly advanced spaceships in freakin space.
Yet i need to reload my gun
Just get rid of it. Will solve a lot of these underpowered guns.
hmm, that's a really good idea actually
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