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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7079
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:EVE is a godawful place to be a solo PvE player with limited time, that is, EVE is godawful to 80% of the MMO demographics Boo ******* hoo.
Solo PVE players add nothing of life to the game at all. Enticing these people to buy subs may inflate pcu and subscription numbers, but it won't make for a healthy game. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1622
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:baltec1 wrote:I should point out that EVE is still growing. I would say it depends on how you define growing. When I look at this years average PCU count it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. The last time the average weekly PCU hit over 40k was back in Feb this year. However the only real way to see if this is good or bad is being able to compare it with previous years weekly PCU count. I would love Chribba to make these available on his site. I'll take that into account and see if I can render some good way of displaying that data without having to walk through millions and millions of rows each time (so yeah - perhaps I need to start some sort of aggregation project for this). /c
All hail Chribba. Without him, CCP would have to spend who knows how much cash to understand their own game.
It is pretty sad when the most valuable employee CCP has is not even paid by them. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9107
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:(...) This is very true.
Its also important to realize that many, I would even say, the majority of MMO players like to play solo. The reason MMO's have instances and group content that is not solo-able is because if they didn't the majority would solo the content rather than group for it and it would crash the economy.
EVE is a very un-solo friendly game, thus the requirement to have alts for virtually everything not directly related to your mains skillset.
I think once SC comes out, if it offers interesting PVE and is more solo friendly, not requiring stupid number of accounts like EVE does, a very large proportion of the EVE PVE and solo community will move to that instead.
Developers ignoring solo and PVE the way there are and allowing 10% of the playerbase exclusive access to a majority of content in EVE is going to backfire on them pretty horribly. Which is possibly the reason they have released things like depots, SOE ships, MTU's and player owned POCO's. I +1 this whole post. EVE is a godawful place to be a solo PvE player with limited time, that is, EVE is godawful to 80% of the MMO demographics. And the Hallelujah Plan intends to change that by focusing new content on a tiny minority, not for a expansion or two, but for THREE YEARS. Even worst, that content is the absolutely less likely to atract new players and also is the absolutely most unlikely to be found from the NPE. And meanwhle the NPE consists of seeing a trailer with avatars, sign in, create a gorgeous avatar, meet it locked alone in a single room with nothing to do and then, oh, go fly a ship and learn how PvE works in a game were PvE sucks.
EVE has always focused on the people that do not want yet another pve focused hold my had MMO. EVE is also the only MMO of its age to still be seeing year on year growth. Focusing on pve is one of the things that brought us the summer of discontent and CCPs focus on the pvp side brought us not only back into growth but into record breaking growth.
The NPE is now far far greater than when I started but it will never be a cure for people doing stupid things, that will only be cured by experience and learning from mistakes. EVE is unique in just providing you the tools and telling you to make your own story. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1622
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:EVE is a godawful place to be a solo PvE player with limited time, that is, EVE is godawful to 80% of the MMO demographics Boo ******* hoo. Solo PVE players add nothing of life to the game at all. Enticing these people to buy subs may inflate pcu and subscription numbers, but it won't make for a healthy game.
Add nothing to the life of the game.....sorry son, without them, there IS no game. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
The most difficult, challenging and fulfilling enemy to defeat will always be another player.
It takes less development resources to give players reasons to fight eachother than to create a completely new system (game?) that will provide a more gameable, less fulfilling, and much more static experience.
New players can be (and are) trained by old players, again requiring zero development effort, and are generally more effective in a PVP environment. You can't find people who want to help you go through a grinding treadmill, because everyone else is too busy playing a grinding treadmill game. This is the reason why highsec is so cold and unforgiving to new players.
It is much more difficult to compete in a soon to be saturated market full of PVE space games, with much more interesting mechanics and generally more fun PVE than CCP could ever hope to develop in this engine within a short amount of time.
Effective PVP combat on a gigantic scale is the niche that this game will always fill and will always be the draw to get people to play this game. To use development effort on things that simply don't matter is simply a waste of resources. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2801
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:EVE is a godawful place to be a solo PvE player with limited time, that is, EVE is godawful to 80% of the MMO demographics Boo ******* hoo. Solo PVE players add nothing of life to the game at all. Enticing these people to buy subs may inflate pcu and subscription numbers, but it won't make for a healthy game.
Playing Space Engineers on your second screen while you mine in EVE with Orca support from an alt surely is the definition of healthy gaming...
Seriously though, the nice thing with EVE is that even solo PvE are a part of the economy. Also, in order to become a part of the "right" content, first you must get people to play EVE. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Add nothing to the life of the game.....sorry son, without them, there IS no game.
If you replaced every highsec player with an NPC, nothing would change. Except perhaps CCP wouldn't have as much money to waste on pie-in-the-sky projects.
How meaningful can you say your interactions are if you could literally be replaced with a bot?
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Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
51
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
shrink hi - sec, make it less profitable but 100% safe from bored vets |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2801
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:The most difficult, challenging and fulfilling enemy to defeat will always be another player.
It takes less development resources to give players reasons to fight eachother than to create a completely new system (game?) that will provide a more gameable, less fulfilling, and much more static experience.
New players can be (and are) trained by old players, again requiring zero development effort, and are generally more effective in a PVP environment. You can't find people who want to help you go through a grinding treadmill, because everyone else is too busy playing a grinding treadmill game. This is the reason why highsec is so cold and unforgiving to new players.
It is much more difficult to compete in a soon to be saturated market full of PVE space games, with much more interesting mechanics and generally more fun PVE than CCP could ever hope to develop in this engine within a short amount of time.
Effective PVP combat on a gigantic scale is the niche that this game will always fill and will always be the draw to get people to play this game. To use development effort on things that simply don't matter is simply a waste of resources.
So everything is fine with EVE, minus the skyrocketing marketing expense, the stagnating PCU and the proliferation of alts and ISboxers. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So everything is fine with EVE, minus the skyrocketing marketing expense, the stagnating PCU and the proliferation of alts and ISboxers.
No.
Too much focus is being put on things that are not EVE's niche.
And things that make the niche less effective are untouchable because people believe that it would destroy the game. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2802
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Add nothing to the life of the game.....sorry son, without them, there IS no game. If you replaced every highsec player with an NPC, nothing would change. Except perhaps CCP wouldn't have as much money to waste on pie-in-the-sky projects. How meaningful can you say your interactions are if you could literally be replaced with a bot?
You should write up that and send a copy to the CSM, CCP Seagull and Hilmar. And CCP's shareholders. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1623
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Add nothing to the life of the game.....sorry son, without them, there IS no game. If you replaced every highsec player with an NPC, nothing would change. Except perhaps CCP wouldn't have as much money to waste on pie-in-the-sky projects. How meaningful can you say your interactions are if you could literally be replaced with a bot?
Small thing, not only is your statement utterly wrong, but NPC's don't buy subs. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
When I play a game, the only thing that matters to me is how much money the developers make. |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
51
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'd say one of the major things new ppl see and totally puts them of is skill learning time, being new an knowing ppl have a 10 year head start is a automatic turn off, but i suppose if ccp had to do something to shorten this for new players considerably there a good players will moan |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1080
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Add nothing to the life of the game.....sorry son, without them, there IS no game. If you replaced every highsec player with an NPC, nothing would change. Except perhaps CCP wouldn't have as much money to waste on pie-in-the-sky projects. How meaningful can you say your interactions are if you could literally be replaced with a bot? You must be trolling. WE provide almost all of the funds for the 10% who like to crash the server every few months and call it PvP. |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
169
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
I don't think PvP is the pinnacle of EVE that people claim it is- it draws the loudest players who're most engaged on the forum perhaps, or you surround yourself with like-minded people, both which may bias your perspective. Truth is, there is a fair number of people that accept PvP as an interesting challenge and risk to doing other activities without having any direct interest in doing it. There are a number that resent that PvP is force upon them, but play anyway because they like EVE for reasons other than the PvP.
Catering to PvP is definitely part of CCPs strategy, but it's very short-sighted to assert that everything else should be dropped in favour of it- down that path leads the vapid annual-iteration mutliplayer-only genre, something that couldn't be further from EVE.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2803
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:When I play a game, the only thing that matters to me is how much money the developers make.
Then you're doing it wrong. They should not feel like they can earn a living from developing a game, otherwise they may start having crazy ideas about charging you for playing a game. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9108
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bel Tika wrote:I'd say one of the major things new ppl see and totally puts them of is skill learning time, being new an knowing ppl have a 10 year head start is a automatic turn off, but i suppose if ccp had to do something to shorten this for new players considerably there a good players will moan
This is a myth. You can only put so many SP into a single ship and even a 30 min old account can play an effective role. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9108
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:I don't think PvP is the pinnacle of EVE that people claim it is- it draws the loudest players who're most engaged on the forum perhaps, or you surround yourself with like-minded people, both which may bias your perspective. Truth is, there is a fair number of people that accept PvP as an interesting challenge and risk to doing other activities without having any direct interest in doing it. There are a number that resent that PvP is force upon them, but play anyway because they like EVE for reasons other than the PvP.
Catering to PvP is definitely part of CCPs strategy, but it's very short-sighted to assert that everything else should be dropped in favour of it- down that path leads the vapid annual-iteration mutliplayer-only genre, something that couldn't be further from EVE.
People don't join EVE on the tales of the PVE content. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
When you are a game development company, you don't ask yourself how you can make the most money.
You ask yourself how can you make the best game experience possible for people to want to play your game, then from there you figure out how to make money off of them.
That best game experience possible isn't created by inviting people to be bots, or giving people what they want no matter how much damage it does to your universe because they give you fifteen dollars a month. |
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EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
PS:
http://evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/01.jpg |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
192
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP needs a new CEO
Hilmar has obviously lost the plot |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
51
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 18:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bel Tika wrote:I'd say one of the major things new ppl see and totally puts them of is skill learning time, being new an knowing ppl have a 10 year head start is a automatic turn off, but i suppose if ccp had to do something to shorten this for new players considerably there a good players will moan This is a myth. You can only put so many SP into a single ship and even a 30 min old account can play an effective role.
i know the difference its why im still here, new ppl dont, all they see is vets ganking an ripping the pesh so to speak an think they dont have a chance n leave
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9108
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 19:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bel Tika wrote: i know the difference its why im still here, new ppl dont, all they see is vets ganking an ripping the pesh so to speak an think they dont have a chance n leave
Think of it as a filtering system. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
51
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 19:11:00 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bel Tika wrote: i know the difference its why im still here, new ppl dont, all they see is vets ganking an ripping the pesh so to speak an think they dont have a chance n leave
Think of it as a filtering system.
Its why i say the universe needs a shakeup even a reboot tbh |
Chi Garu
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
13
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Posted - 2013.12.21 19:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bel Tika wrote: i know the difference its why im still here, new ppl dont, all they see is vets ganking an ripping the pesh so to speak an think they dont have a chance n leave
Think of it as a filtering system.
That's true enough, but I think more emphasis should be put on the fact it doesn't take years to be viable. If they included this in the promotional videos or even part of a text blurb after each video it might make the game more appealing. It would also help if long-term NPC corporation members didn't propagate the rumour to new players.
As an aside, I think this is a great service Goonswarm provides, showing that a week old character in a T1 frigate is not just useful, but can make a difference on a grand scale.
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Jasmin Natinde
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2013.12.21 19:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Add nothing to the life of the game.....sorry son, without them, there IS no game. If you replaced every highsec player with an NPC, nothing would change. Except perhaps CCP wouldn't have as much money to waste on pie-in-the-sky projects. How meaningful can you say your interactions are if you could literally be replaced with a bot?
Lmao like PvP can't be botted. EvE has one of the most simplistic combat mechanics of any MMO and especially in large fleet fights a collections of bots would be much better at focusing fire, keeping perfect distances and speeds, etc.. than most player groups. There is precious little that affects the outcome of a big fight that isn't a direct result of fleet composition and ship fittings and numbers and a bunch of simplistic tactics that can be easily automated in a couple of steps.
If EvE was a combat focused MMO it would be one of the crappiest games imaginable. Can anyone actually imagine playing PvP matches in balanced teams all day long for actual fun like you would in a skill based shooter ?. People only shoot ships in EvE because it cause loss. Yes it's a PvP game in a nebulous way in that corps and alliances compete with corps and alliances for their objectives. But if you think this is a combat game goddamn that's just sad. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1478
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 19:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jasmin Natinde wrote:Lmao like PvP can't be botted. Eve, to me, is a game about relationships. You can't bot being a corporation, alliance, or coalition leader. You can't bot being an FC. You can't bot being a personality. The mechanics in this game are rather simple, it's the relationship between players, love or hate, that drives people to do insane things that tend to make the game look good and that tend to make people want to play the game.
This doesn't come out of shooting an NPC for the ten thousandth time or making some imaginary number go up. There are other games for that. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1085
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 19:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Jasmin Natinde wrote:Lmao like PvP can't be botted. Eve, to me, is a game about relationships. You can't bot being a corporation, alliance, or coalition leader. You can't bot being an FC. You can't bot being a personality. The mechanics in this game are rather simple, it's the relationship between players, love or hate, that drives people to do insane things that tend to make the game look good and that tend to make people want to play the game. This doesn't come out of shooting an NPC for the ten thousandth time or making some imaginary number go up. There are other games for that. EVE PvP wouldn't exist without people shooting an NPC for the ten thousandth time. EVE PVE is what keep this game afloat. If CCP invested in making EVE PVE and the PVE experience better, put in stuff like WIS and non combat related stuff they would have a lot more money to make the PvP content better. |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
52
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 19:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
i dont generally agree with the WIS, but expand upon the pve bit yeah |
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