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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
939
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
If we have reasonable collision detection for ships, we should be able to apply damage accordingly. In the same vein that 'bumping' is a valid tactic, so should 'ramming'. Simply put: with enough mass and momentum, you should be able to severely damage or even destroy another ship. Shields would bear the initial brunt, followed by armor and hull (with no reduction for resistances). I'm not suggesting we extend this to asteroids, stations and similar objects - only ships.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLN36pgwS5o I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1071
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
How do you account for security mechanics? If two ships in hisec (say, on the Jita undock) bump into each other, which one gets CONCORDed?
What's to stop me from MWDing a fleet of otherwise-unfit rifters into a freighter for virtually-free suicide ganks?
How do you determine how damage is applied? How does the ramming damage of various ships fit into the broader balance? If I see that I'm losing a fight, should I be able to just slam my ship into theirs and make it a draw?
What stops nullsec alliances from using titans and supercarriers in conjunction with warpins to bowl over smaller caps and subcapitals?
When writing this post, did you put any thought at all into how this would play out ingame, or are you just saying things? |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
451
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
a lot of people have invisioned this as a feature but never come up with a realistic way it could be implenmented in a game environment. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
706
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
the Jita node would melt into slag thanks to all of the bumping that goes on at the 4-4 undock.
In theory nice idea, In practice, not yet available. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ships only deal and receive bumping damage if they are out of shields. There you go, half of the issues solved.
Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
940
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:How do you account for security mechanics? If two ships in hisec (say, on the Jita undock) bump into each other, which one gets CONCORDed?
What's to stop me from MWDing a fleet of otherwise-unfit rifters into a freighter for virtually-free suicide ganks?
How do you determine how damage is applied? How does the ramming damage of various ships fit into the broader balance? If I see that I'm losing a fight, should I be able to just slam my ship into theirs and make it a draw?
What stops nullsec alliances from using titans and supercarriers in conjunction with warpins to bowl over smaller caps and subcapitals?
When writing this post, did you put any thought at all into how this would play out ingame, or are you just saying things? 1. Neither - below a certain threshold there wouldn't be any effect. In the Jita undock example, most of the ships are moving parallel - so the effect would be negligible (regardless of respective speeds). 2. Nothing, except that considering the mass of the freighter the Rifters would have little to no effect (aside from damaging to destroying themselves). 3. Velocity, mass, angle of attack, etc. If you're losing a fight, chances are you'll either do more damage to yourself (provided you're not webbed or scrammed and could actually reach a high enough velocity in the first place). 4. I guess we'd potentially see more supercarrrier and Titan use. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Pipa Porto
1399
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:1. Neither - below a certain threshold there wouldn't be any effect. In the Jita undock example, most of the ships are moving parallel - so the effect would be negligible (regardless of respective speeds). 2. Nothing, except that considering the mass of the freighter the Rifters would have little to no effect (aside from damaging to destroying themselves).
1. So if I park a Freighter on the Jita undock and run some reps on it, I get to gank everyone undocking. Neat. 2. Ok, MWD Stabbers. These actually have more kinetic energy than a Freighter. By quite a bit. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2018
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nag'o wrote:Ships only deal and receive bumping damage if they are out of shields. There you go, half of the issues solved.
Why do you hate armour tanks? |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
940
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:1. So if I park a Freighter on the Jita undock and run some reps on it, I get to gank everyone undocking. Neat. 2. Ok, MWD Stabbers. These actually have more kinetic energy than a Freighter. By quite a bit. Not sure what part of "negligible" (aka: nothing) you din't get getGǪ I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote: What's to stop me from MWDing a fleet of otherwise-unfit rifters into a freighter for virtually-free suicide ganks?
Who wouldn't love to see hundreds of frigs popping at a giant capital ship for ridiculous amounts of damage and lols?
Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2018
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. So if I park a Freighter on the Jita undock and run some reps on it, I get to gank everyone undocking. Neat. 2. Ok, MWD Stabbers. These actually have more kinetic energy than a Freighter. By quite a bit. Not sure what part of "negligible" (aka: nothing) you din't get getGǪ
Plated MWD stabbers have lots of mass and momentum... |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Nag'o wrote:Ships only deal and receive bumping damage if they are out of shields. There you go, half of the issues solved.
Why do you hate armour tanks?
No, I love them, plus explosions.
Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2021
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 20:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nag'o wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Nag'o wrote:Ships only deal and receive bumping damage if they are out of shields. There you go, half of the issues solved.
Why do you hate armour tanks? No, I love them, plus explosions.
Making shield tanks immune to ramming, but leaving armour vulnerable to it is kind of a tremendous nerf to armour tanks you know. |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
72
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Posted - 2013.12.17 20:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
idea is nice implementation is almost impossible. Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn GÖíGÖíGÖí |
Pipa Porto
1399
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Posted - 2013.12.17 20:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. So if I park a Freighter on the Jita undock and run some reps on it, I get to gank everyone undocking. Neat. 2. Ok, MWD Stabbers. These actually have more kinetic energy than a Freighter. By quite a bit. Not sure what part of "negligible" (aka: nothing) you din't get getGǪ
So a ship travelling faster than its maximum speed won't do damage or be damaged by ramming straight into an enormous, massive, stationary ship in your proposal?
Then what conditions would result in damage?
Or did you fail to get some part of the word "park"? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
43
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Posted - 2013.12.17 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Nag'o wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Nag'o wrote:Ships only deal and receive bumping damage if they are out of shields. There you go, half of the issues solved.
Why do you hate armour tanks? No, I love them, plus explosions. Making shield tanks immune to ramming, but leaving armour vulnerable to it is kind of a tremendous nerf to armour tanks you know. No, because they are only vulnerable to other shieldless ships. A shielded ship would be unable to ram other ships because of it's own shield.
EDIT: It would be an armor tanked exclusive tactic. See? I love them. Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
43
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Posted - 2013.12.17 20:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
zbaaca wrote:idea is nice implementation is almost impossible. Would need insane amounts of balancing. It's a huge change I only defend for the sake of coolness.
Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1073
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 20:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote: 1. Neither - below a certain threshold there wouldn't be any effect. In the Jita undock example, most of the ships are moving parallel - so the effect would be negligible (regardless of respective speeds). 2. Nothing, except that considering the mass of the freighter the Rifters would have little to no effect (aside from damaging to destroying themselves). 3. Velocity, mass, angle of attack, etc. If you're losing a fight, chances are you'll either do more damage to yourself (provided you're not webbed or scrammed and could actually reach a high enough velocity in the first place). 4. I guess we'd potentially see more Supercarrrier and Titan use.
1. If I CTRL + Space in front of the Jita undock in, say, a frigate, and a freighter undocks...that freighter will crash at its full speed into my tiny frigate. How do we define the aggressor in this circumstance? Does the frigate get CONCORDOKKENed or does the freighter? If the former, then I can make people get CONCORDED by simply ramming them. If the latter, then I can kill freighters with virtually no effort on my part with no hope of the freighter avoiding it.
2. Okay. And if I use a bunch of 1600mm-plated MWD stabbers to, say, gank mining ships or t2 ships? Can I suicide gank a Claymore by ramming a few stabbers into it?
3. Losing vs winning a fight has nothing to do with who takes more damage from the ramming.
4. Is that good gameplay? It sounds pretty stupid from my perspective.
Quote: When replying to this post, did you just look for ways that this wouldn't work - or are you actually interested in participating?
Part of the "discussion" in "features and ideas discussion" is telling people why their ideas don't work. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
210
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 21:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:1. So if I park a Freighter on the Jita undock and run some reps on it, I get to gank everyone undocking. Neat. 2. Ok, MWD Stabbers. These actually have more kinetic energy than a Freighter. By quite a bit. Not sure what part of "negligible" (aka: nothing) you din't get getGǪ If it's negligible, then you're just eating up server resources for nothing. So negligible damage is worse than no collision damage.
If it's not negligible, then you need to think about Concords reaction. Including in the case of a mission running using an MWD and ramming into another player who parked in front of him.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:When replying to this post, did you just look for ways that this wouldn't work - or are you actually interested in participating? When you posted this thread did you want honest discussion. Or did you just want anyone who can think to shut up ? |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
44
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 21:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote: 1. If I CTRL + Space in front of the Jita undock in, say, a frigate, and a freighter undocks...that freighter will crash at its full speed into my tiny frigate. How do we define the aggressor in this circumstance? Does the frigate get CONCORDOKKENed or does the freighter? If the former, then I can make people get CONCORDED by simply ramming them. If the latter, then I can kill freighters with virtually no effort on my part with no hope of the freighter avoiding it.
2. Okay. And if I use a bunch of 1600mm-plated MWD stabbers to, say, gank mining ships or t2 ships? Can I suicide gank a Claymore by ramming a few stabbers into it?
3. Losing vs winning a fight has nothing to do with who takes more damage from the ramming.
4. Is that good gameplay? It sounds pretty stupid from my perspective.
Please don't ignore me. I said shields. Everyone undocks with shields full. You only lose shields if you're already in a fight.
Maybe this could not trigger the agression timer. It could do small damage compared to weapons.
Also, I think this is awesome gameplay. Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
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Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
44
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Posted - 2013.12.17 21:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
A few considerations to improve the idea: - Only shieldless ships do or receive ramming damage. Bumping a shielded ship has no effects, being bumped while still having shields has no effects. - Damage is inflicted on both ships. - The ammount of damage is a relation of the speed of the bump and the mass of the ships involved, hence a cruiser bumping a freighter would obviously take more damage than the freighter itself. A frigate bumping a capital ship at high speed would be severely damaged. - 100MN Afterburner cruisers must be fixed.
Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Pipa Porto
1399
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 21:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nag'o wrote:A few considerations to improve the idea: - Only shieldless ships do or receive ramming damage. Bumping a shielded ship has no effects, being bumped while still having shields has no effects. - Damage is inflicted on both ships.
Why should only armor tankers be affected by the change? What is the gameplay benefit to limiting the mechanic to those without shields? Incidentally, your ship always has some shields, because it regenerates a couple points every tick.
Who gets CONCORDed? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1073
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 21:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote: Please don't ignore me. I said shields. Everyone undocks with shields full. You only lose shields if you're already in a fight.
Maybe this could not trigger the agression timer. It could do small damage compared to weapons.
I wasn't responding to you. Your ideas are problematic for different reasons already spelled out. If you make it not give an aggression timer but do low damage, then the mechanic serves no gameplay purpose whatsoever. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
167
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 00:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Posting in a secret buff titans thread.
However we actually might see titans on grid more often then when there is a battleship fleet shooting some structures, just go bowling and pop half their battleships when your titans land. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
supernova ranger
ARCH DOWN
93
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just turn the mechanic off in high and let it run everywhere else |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2024
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 00:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
supernova ranger wrote:Just turn the mechanic off in high and let it run everywhere else
How would that even remotely make sense? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
388
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
There's absolutely no chance of this happening. |
Vardec Crom
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
6
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:4. I guess we'd potentially see more Supercarrrier and Titan use.
Obviously you haven't been near null anytime in the last 5 years.
Anyway, bumping will always be a part of EVE and collisions never will be. |
Pipa Porto
1400
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 04:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
supernova ranger wrote:Just turn the mechanic off in high and let it run everywhere else
Why should highsec have different physical rules from everywhere else? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
961
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 04:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Just remember, anything you get, I also get.
We can depend on CONCORD to enforce the rules on illegal aggression when a mining barge causes collision damage on my alt's newb ship, correct? I'm pretty sure I can arrange to not have shields when that happens, if for some reason, shields need to be a mechanic for this. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
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