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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Jake Sake
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
22
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Posted - 2013.12.11 07:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:...also if target sig/speed is sufficient they recive 0 or less damage...
So they get repaired? Kewl! |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
214
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Posted - 2013.12.11 07:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:I just look at it like this: how often do you see a TP on the Huginn? Almost never. To me, that means the average Eve player views the web as exponentially better.
Because to achieve same effect(damage application with missiles) of a 60% web with TPs you'll need to increase target's sig by 2.5 times and thats more than 2 modules without information warfare links or more than 1 with links. To get better than 2 webs you'll need to apply more than 4 link-bonused TPs from Huginn.
Pretty sure it completely depends on the base sig size of the target and what it's base speed is. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
452
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Posted - 2013.12.11 07:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:I just look at it like this: how often do you see a TP on the Huginn? Almost never. To me, that means the average Eve player views the web as exponentially better.
Because to achieve same effect(damage application with missiles) of a 60% web with TPs you'll need to increase target's sig by 2.5 times and thats more than 2 modules without information warfare links or more than 1 with links. To get better than 2 webs you'll need to apply more than 4 link-bonused TPs from Huginn. Pretty sure it completely depends on the base sig size of the target and what it's base speed is. Nope. Doesn't matter at all. For the same reason Rigor rigs are better than Flare in any given situation and (T1 Rigor is about 1% worse than T2 Flare). Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
214
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Posted - 2013.12.11 08:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Zvaarian the Red wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:I just look at it like this: how often do you see a TP on the Huginn? Almost never. To me, that means the average Eve player views the web as exponentially better.
Because to achieve same effect(damage application with missiles) of a 60% web with TPs you'll need to increase target's sig by 2.5 times and thats more than 2 modules without information warfare links or more than 1 with links. To get better than 2 webs you'll need to apply more than 4 link-bonused TPs from Huginn. Pretty sure it completely depends on the base sig size of the target and what it's base speed is. Nope. Doesn't matter at all. For the same reason Rigor rigs are better than Flare in any given situation and (T1 Rigor is about 1% worse than T2 Flare). Well, there are some exceptions but general rule is: if your damage application is not 100% with missiles and target is moving - web is better than TP (one of exceptions would be a very slow moving target with small sig, but probability of that happening is low).
Messing around in EFT it looks like it basically boils down to webs being better against fast targets and TPs being better against smaller ships that have no prop mod or have had their speed reduced via the MWD being shut off by a warp scram/disruptor or a web. Though that operates off the idea of them having similar range and similar overall effect, which can only really happen on a Huginn or Rapier I believe. Otherwise webs are quite a bit stronger but much shorter range, as should be expected.
Also based on EFT I stand by my original statement that a Loki-level range bonus to webs and a max 50% TP effectiveness bonus is pretty much a wash in my eyes. Either would be great for a missile boat faction. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
452
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Posted - 2013.12.11 09:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Also based on EFT I stand by my original statement that a Loki-level range bonus to webs and a max 50% TP effectiveness bonus is pretty much a wash in my eyes. Either would be great for a missile boat faction. I think that:
Caldari Battleship skill bonus: +10% Missile Velocity per level (Torpedos, Cruise and Heavy missiles)
Minmatar Battleship skill bonus: 5% bonus to explosion velocity per level
Role bonus: 50% damage to all missiles (preferable) or 37.5% RoF to Torpedo, Cruise and Rapid Heavy missile launchers
Slot-layout (H/M/L): 7/8/5, 6 launcher hardpoints.
^ Would make a good pirate missile-based BS. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Mascha Tzash
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
133
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Posted - 2013.12.11 09:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
How about Khanid & Roden having a pirate baby?
Amarr/Gallente mashup hulls with Missiles, with armor bonuses and perhaps some turret disruption? |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
216
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Posted - 2013.12.11 11:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Zvaarian the Red wrote:Also based on EFT I stand by my original statement that a Loki-level range bonus to webs and a max 50% TP effectiveness bonus is pretty much a wash in my eyes. Either would be great for a missile boat faction. I think that: Caldari Battleship skill bonus: +10% Missile Velocity per level (Torpedos, Cruise and Heavy missiles) Minmatar Battleship skill bonus: 5% bonus to explosion velocity per level Role bonus: 50% damage to all missiles (preferable) or 37.5% RoF to Torpedo, Cruise and Rapid Heavy missile launchers Slot-layout (H/M/L): 7/8/5, 6 launcher hardpoints. ^ Would make a good pirate missile-based BS.
Just looks like a Caldari ship. Isn't the point of pirate ship design to combine things you wouldn't otherwise see together? Really, there's nothing particularly Minmatar about your concept. If you replace the explosion velocity bonus with a TP or web range bonus it feels very Caldari/Minmatar all of the sudden. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
216
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Posted - 2013.12.11 11:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mascha Tzash wrote:How about Khanid & Roden having a pirate baby?
Amarr/Gallente mashup hulls with Missiles, with armor bonuses and perhaps some turret disruption?
Because we already have an Amarr/Gallente faction with SOE? |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
68
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Posted - 2013.12.11 11:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: I think that:
Caldari Battleship skill bonus: +10% Missile Velocity per level (Torpedos, Cruise and Heavy missiles)
Minmatar Battleship skill bonus: 5% bonus to explosion velocity per level
Role bonus: 50% damage to all missiles (preferable) or 37.5% RoF to Torpedo, Cruise and Rapid Heavy missile launchers
Slot-layout (H/M/L): 7/8/5, 6 launcher hardpoints.
^ Would make a good pirate missile-based BS.
why every one so freakn' scared give to missiles same ammount of effective weapons like other have ? why not make it like 10-11.67 like every pirate have? Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn GÖíGÖíGÖí |
Stan Durden
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
3
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Posted - 2013.12.11 12:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Just throwing it out there that maybe a missile boat with target painter bonus seems like a good mix. Then if you made the ship capable of armor tanking decently then you may add some variety to the game. Other than the sacrilege I can't think of an armor tanking missile boat (maybe typhoon?).
Another idea would be to give bonuses specifically for rapid launchers. |
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Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
453
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Posted - 2013.12.11 12:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Just looks like a Caldari ship. Isn't the point of pirate ship design to combine things you wouldn't otherwise see together? Really, there's nothing particularly Minmatar about your concept. If you replace the explosion velocity bonus with a TP or web range bonus it feels very Caldari/Minmatar all of the sudden. Lets do a comparison: Machariel vs Vargur - Mach has better damage output and maneuverability/versatility (shield/armor tank), but Vargur has better application and tank Cald/Min BS vs Golem - BS will have better damage output (9 effective launchers) and overall versatility (8 mids and 3 rig slots) vs Golem's better application (through painters) and tank.
Pretty much balanced i think. T1/navy/faction ships shouldn't force players to fit specific modules - they are general use ships, leave specializations to T2. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
216
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Posted - 2013.12.11 12:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Zvaarian the Red wrote:Just looks like a Caldari ship. Isn't the point of pirate ship design to combine things you wouldn't otherwise see together? Really, there's nothing particularly Minmatar about your concept. If you replace the explosion velocity bonus with a TP or web range bonus it feels very Caldari/Minmatar all of the sudden. Lets do a comparison: Machariel vs Vargur - Mach has better damage output and maneuverability/versatility (shield/armor tank), but Vargur has better application and tank Cald/Min BS vs Golem - BS will have better damage output (9 effective launchers) and overall versatility (8 mids and 3 rig slots) vs Golem's better application (through painters) and tank. Pretty much balanced i think. T1/navy/faction ships shouldn't force players to fit specific modules - they are general use ships, leave specializations to T2.
Both the Vindicator and Bhaalgorn have module-specific bonuses. Meanwhile the Rattlesnake combines drones and missiles and the Nightmare combines shield tanking and lasers. Only the Machariel follows the design approach that you are proposing, and just as your concept feels like a purely Caldari ship the Machariel feels like a purely Minmatar ship. Personally I think that design approach is boring. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
216
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Posted - 2013.12.11 12:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Stan Durden wrote:Just throwing it out there that maybe a missile boat with target painter bonus seems like a good mix. Then if you made the ship capable of armor tanking decently then you may add some variety to the game. Other than the sacrilege I can't think of an armor tanking missile boat (maybe typhoon?).
Another idea would be to give bonuses specifically for rapid launchers.
The Typhoon and Typhoon Fleet Issue say hello. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
317
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
216
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.
Is this a joke? |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
453
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea. Are you scared? Show me where those meany missiles touched you. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8513
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
234
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea.
You must play in some alternate Eve universe... |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
454
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
998
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)?
Well, we already have a decent enough line of faction shield-missile ships and we don't really need another. It's probably a safe prediction that any future pirate missile faction will be armour tanked, but armour isn't really a Guristas thing. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8513
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)?
We plan to rebalance pirate ships before too long, but I wouldn't count on Guristas moving too far away from their current flavour. I expect that a pure missile pirate faction would take the form of a new faction rather than the conversion of an existing one. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
618
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 14:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused.
i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship
so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
618
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. You just added another drone pirate line of ships. Why not use this as an opportunity and rebalance Guristas vessels into proper missile ones (as they should be)? We plan to rebalance pirate ships before too long, but I wouldn't count on Guristas moving too far away from their current flavour. I expect that a pure missile pirate faction would take the form of a new faction rather than the conversion of an existing one.
is the gurista line going to get a more vexor like approach? 50/50 damage drones/missiles?
so say gila 75/200 drones.... 3/4 launchers with 5% damage bonus and remove missile velocity? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
45
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yo Fozzie!
Why not just add a tier 2 battleship to all existing pirate factions? Sounds cheap i know but it gives you guys some room to be creative i think while not over complicating the task perhaps.
I always thought it been strange that all other factions have so many classes of ships but pirate factions only have frigates, cruiser and battleships, imo could add battlecruisers and destroyers and capital ships to the mix to spice things up
Nullseccers comlaining lack of new content in null fix could be to add new bpc's for pirate faction capital ships and new battleship class bpc drops.
Can have pirate bc's bpc's drop in low and dessy's in highsec.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8513
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps?
Not in January, but pirate ships are getting up towards the top of our backlog.
Also I expect we'd do a rebalance of current pirate ships before adding any more new ones at this point. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
618
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps? Not in January, but pirate ships are getting up towards the top of our backlog. Also I expect we'd do a rebalance of current pirate ships before adding any more new ones at this point.
ah so the recons/ T2 cruisers/frigs are next? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Drake Doe
Flatulaction
300
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'd vote for a second amarr/caldari pirate faction, similar to how minmatar and gallente have two pirate factions to choose from . "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
318
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Posted - 2013.12.11 15:55:00 -
[58] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Meditril wrote:Missiles (especially small ones) are already close to be overpowered mainly because there is no weapon working against them (except for Defender Missiles which simply don't work in practice). Putting them on pirate ships would result in an overpowered ship for sure. Therefore a clear NO to this idea. You must play in some alternate Eve universe...
Maybe... I am usually playing with frigates in low-sec and faction warefare. In this playing field missiles are absolutely OP with regards to kiting. You can't reliably speed tank them (talking about small missiles), you can't reliably sig tank them, you can't tracking disrupt them, you can't neutralize them with cap warefare. The only things you can do is bring strong ECM (which means you need to go Caldari or use the Defender Missiles which don't really work since a) you need spare missiles slots and b) you have to spam the button all the time to keep them running. |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
69
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Posted - 2013.12.11 17:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
2 CCP Fozzie can we assume buffs to heavies and torps ? Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn GÖíGÖíGÖí |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
156
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Posted - 2013.12.11 17:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point. As posters above have noted, the trick is figuring out how to make such a race feel unique and distinct since we have such a large variety of missile archetypes covered between Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr already. At this point we're more focused on figuring out how to get the current pirate ships into a healthier state than on adding new ones, but I would not be surprised whatsoever if the next pirate faction we add (someday) is primarily missile focused. i would think a fast shield tanked missile ship so pirates are next then in jan then? new pirate bc's/dessies perhaps? Not in January, but pirate ships are getting up towards the top of our backlog. Also I expect we'd do a rebalance of current pirate ships before adding any more new ones at this point.
Retune defender (and FoF) missiles in some comprehendable way. For example, highly increase the RoF and let it shoot missile 'bursts of 2-4 missiles', activate the turrets on a hostile target missile boat, then the active turrets would spam missiles more often than the like turrets of the enemy and target outgoing missiles on that ship using the targetted module. Also, make defender missiles work against bombs (if they don't already).
Then you could give a FoF and defender missile bonus to Mordu's legion faction ships making them valuable nullsec bomber/ECM screening support ships.
Also, why didn't you make rapid missile launchers shoot defender missiles. This could potentially let their platform be better anti-missile launchers...? |
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