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Zoe Zen
Wormhole Nexus Union
0
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Posted - 2013.12.11 23:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
ah okey then it makes sense that it takes time to make a net profit out of it. I said on the BPO site that it took 6hrs/copy i think, dont remember exactly. But anyway any money you make on it is a profit right ? and then you can always sell it off. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
147
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Posted - 2013.12.11 23:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zoe Zen wrote:ah okey then it makes sense that it takes time to make a net profit out of it. I said on the BPO site that it took 6hrs/copy i think, dont remember exactly. But anyway any money you make on it is a profit right ? and then you can always sell it off. You're bad at economic thinking and should look up opportunity cost. Not all profit is profit. |
Zoe Zen
Wormhole Nexus Union
0
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Posted - 2013.12.11 23:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
X wrote: You're bad at economic thinking and should look up opportunity cost. Not all profit is profit.
Well that is why I am asking questions, to improve and get better, so please do not just tell me that I am **** without explaining the reason. As I said before I have not done any real calculations on this, this is just thoughts going through my head while on the bus.
But the profit on this is bad compared to the investment, but getting a couple of extra millions while you wait to sell the t2 bpo for higher is not a bad profit is it now?
As someone said it is like buying/selling a house or property, you rent it out to minimise the cost of the upkeep and then you hopefully sell it for more then you bought it. |
Ricard Chastot
Snake Eye Production
14
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Posted - 2013.12.11 23:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Zoe Zen wrote:But the profit on this is bad compared to the investment, but getting a couple of extra millions while you wait to sell the t2 bpo for higher is not a bad profit is it now?
As someone said it is like buying/selling a house or property, you rent it out to minimise the cost of the upkeep and then you hopefully sell it for more then you bought it.
It can be dangerous to just assume that some class of assets will never go down in price, which is what you're doing here. Get enough people thinking like that and it's basically how you make an economic bubble. Housing is a good example. Most of the time it works as you say, but if you buy at the wrong time you can take a huge loss in principal.
There's nothing wrong with taking the risks of course if you know about them! You really need to at least consider that the BP may not necessarily be worth the same or more than you bought it for. Maybe you'll still estimate it's a good deal and worth the risk, but don't just assume that the risk isn't there. |
Zoe Zen
Wormhole Nexus Union
0
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Posted - 2013.12.12 00:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ricard Chastot wrote:Zoe Zen wrote:But the profit on this is bad compared to the investment, but getting a couple of extra millions while you wait to sell the t2 bpo for higher is not a bad profit is it now?
As someone said it is like buying/selling a house or property, you rent it out to minimise the cost of the upkeep and then you hopefully sell it for more then you bought it. It can be dangerous to just assume that some class of assets will never go down in price, which is what you're doing here. Get enough people thinking like that and it's basically how you make an economic bubble. Housing is a good example. Most of the time it works as you say, but if you buy at the wrong time you can take a huge loss in principal. There's nothing wrong with taking the risks of course if you know about them! You really need to at least consider that the BP may not necessarily be worth the same or more than you bought it for. Maybe you'll still estimate it's a good deal and worth the risk, but don't just assume that the risk isn't there.
Of course, I was writing in a risk free manner before. And I would never invest in a T2 BPO as you can't produce an infinite amount of copies with it. Thanks for your insight Ricard. |
Rainbow Dash
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
65
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Posted - 2013.12.14 15:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
The 6 hours per copy means you can make a 1-run BPC every ~6 hours, or 100 runs in 24 days (the max runs on a BPC for this BPO is 100) |
Marcus Iunius Brutus
NerdRage Inc.
19
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Posted - 2014.01.14 16:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Let me dig this topic a little to help me understand something.
In sell orders forum there is an auction for Co-Processor II BPO starting at 36B ISK. The price of this item has fallen recently, although daily volume is quite nice. With current price, according to Fuzzwork this BPO can provide almost 600k ISK/h in a POS manufacturing slot. That is 5.26B ISK per year assuming 24/7 production.
It still doesn't explain to me why anyone would freeze (let's say it can be resold) 36B ISK. Ok, in comparison to invention it is very convenient to produce from BPO... So, help me understand what am I missing here.
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RAW23
668
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Posted - 2014.01.15 10:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:Let me dig this topic a little to help me understand something. In sell orders forum there is an auction for Co-Processor II BPO starting at 36B ISK. The price of this item has fallen recently, although daily volume is quite nice. With current price, according to Fuzzwork this BPO can provide almost 600k ISK/h in a POS manufacturing slot. That is 5.26B ISK per year assuming 24/7 production. It still doesn't explain to me why anyone would freeze (let's say it can be resold) 36B ISK. Ok, in comparison to invention it is very convenient to produce from BPO... So, help me understand what am I missing here.
The answer can probably be found by looking at what the price of that print was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc. Back in 2010 people were goggling at the fact that there were buyers for T2 BPOs when it took three years to make a 100% profit. Since then the prices have gone up a huge amount. With the print you identify, let's say it takes 7 years to make a 100% profit, or 14% profit a year. That's a little over 1% a month, which may seem terrible to most people but which is only a little under the baseline amount that isk can be lent out at to the most trusted figures. Eve has an aging player-base with increasingly large numbers of rich vets who want to put their isk somewhere and earn something. With a T2 BPO not only do you get a very low effort safe return (safer than lending the money out!) but you also get the chance that the price of the print itself will rise further as the trend of greater numbers of aging rich vets who want a safe harbour for their isk continues. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
SixKiller
Luclin Industries and Mining
0
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
After playing the first 5 years after release, I was then inactive for 5 + years. I had two Tech II BPO stuffed into my hanger. I sold one (enegrized thermic membrane) to have operating cash, and held the other (small shield extender II). I can not manufacture them fast enough, even so to make the profit above what I can sell them for would take several years. The pragmatic decision would be to sell it. I can not bring myself to sell it and I believe that is a combination of rarity/collectibility, and maybe vanity/bragging rights. While money matters, it is not everything. |
Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
48
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: I am not in any way claiming that the T2 BPOs will all crash any time soon, it's possible for a bubble to be sustained for a long time, but purchasing a T2 BPO under the expectation of continued capital gains is not a zero risk proposition. And purchasing one for the passive income is a very foolish decision indeed; Grendell's bonds pay quite a lot better.
So bonds are actualy better investments than T2 b'po's > loooool
Samroski wrote: One of the great things about Eve is that a new player can compete in most things with older players reasonably well. Except where it comes to buying T2 BPOs!
For this reason alone, I'm against T2 BPOs, though I love them as well for some strange reason.
Everyone has a chance to own a T2 bpo, even the jelous people. You can easly buy them of ingame contracts. Most T2 bpo's have been sold since the introduction. I doubt the percentage of original owners is above 30%. They were cheaper years ago, but see it as a loyalty program for older players... they have payed years more for alooot lesss game..... (less free patches)
RAW23 wrote: The answer can probably be found by looking at what the price of that print was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc. Back in 2010 people were goggling at the fact that there were buyers for T2 BPOs when it took three years to make a 100% profit. Since then the prices have gone up a huge amount. With the print you identify, let's say it takes 7 years to make a 100% profit, or 14% profit a year. That's a little over 1% a month, which may seem terrible to most people but which is only a little under the baseline amount that isk can be lent out at to the most trusted figures. Eve has an aging player-base with increasingly large numbers of rich vets who want to put their isk somewhere and earn something. With a T2 BPO not only do you get a very low effort safe return (safer than lending the money out!) but you also get the chance that the price of the print itself will rise further as the trend of greater numbers of aging rich vets who want a safe harbour for their isk continues.
Please stop posting about stuff that you dont know anything about. There have been a few developments that caused that price spike and the current fuss about the amount (2 collections) that are getting (re)sold. I have all the answeres but unfortualy (and cause you trolled me a few years ago) there is no such thing as free information. |
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Qalix
Long Jump.
75
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Posted - 2014.02.04 21:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mr LaboratoryRat wrote:Please stop posting about stuff that you dont know anything about. There have been a few developments that caused that price spike and the current fuss about the amount (2 collections) that are getting (re)sold. I have all the answeres but unfortualy (and cause you trolled me a few years ago) there is no such thing as free information. OMG you're secretly "in the know." Let us all fall silent in awe at your completely random, unsubstantiated claim. I'm sure your post has nothing to do with your sales of T2 BPOs. |
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.02.04 23:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
The worry about some sort of a bubble in these prints is a bit overblown. You can't compare the situation to real life because credit doesn't exist in this game. Cheap, easy credit causes these situations and then amplifies the panic when the price of the asset tanks. In the game if I pay 35B for a print, there is nothing that really compels me to make a panic sale except for my own worry that the price won't ever come back up.
With all that said, are tech 2 BPOs worth what they sell for? Not even close. They are novelty items. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 10:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:X ATM092 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
Limited issue items such as t2 bpos and AT hulls have actually offered some of the best passive isk returns in the game, many appreciating at around 10%/month for the last year. You don't hold it for the isk generating potential, you hold it to resell it to someone else at a higher price.
My personal opinion regarding the reason for this state of affairs is that wealth inflation in the top 1% is increasing at a far faster rate than it is among the general population and these items which are pretty much exclusively traded among the super rich are priced based upon the disposable income and need to sell things for liquidity of that group. Their perceived value has remained constant among that group but the amount of isk at the disposal of that group, and therefore the value they place on their isk, has changed. They inflate in value in proportion to the wallets of the people who deal in them and those wallets increase in size at a far faster rate than those of the general population. This is completely correct. Interestingly, it's similar to the housing rental market in Australia. Noone in their right mind buys a house for the income from renting it out, a bank will pay more interest if you just deposit the money. Landlords buy houses because they anticipate capital gains, and rent covers half the interest payments on a mortgage. T2 BPOs are the same.
That is a strange situation, because when that happens usually the market regulates itself and usually safe bank investments are around same income level of rent. Unless there is a huge surplus of housing in the region. I live in the country with the highest interest rates of any meaningful economies worldwide.. adn still banks investments pay just a tiny bit mroe than rent based on housing of same value. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Qalix
Long Jump.
78
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Posted - 2014.02.05 19:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Are people using T2 bpo's as collateral against debt? |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
299
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Posted - 2014.02.06 16:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Are people using T2 bpo's as collateral against debt? Frequently. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
91
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Qalix wrote:Are people using T2 bpo's as collateral against debt? Frequently. Are they being valued according to latest sales or some other arcane process? It seems like it would be tempting to inflate the value to a certain point and the next time you get a big ole chunk of ISK loaned to you, just letting the BPO go. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
299
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Qalix wrote:Are people using T2 bpo's as collateral against debt? Frequently. Are they being valued according to latest sales or some other arcane process? It seems like it would be tempting to inflate the value to a certain point and the next time you get a big ole chunk of ISK loaned to you, just letting the BPO go. Most sensible people entering in to a collateralised loan will value the collateral conservatively.
Not everyone is sensible. |
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