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Ghostof Duhoh
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Posted - 2006.02.27 09:59:00 -
[1]
Would it be fair to say that Piracy is the school of PvP?
It seems that it is the most common starting career for PvP'ers. Look at high profile PvP groups like BOB, many of their pilots learned the ropes from piracy. In fact most prolific PvP'ers out there come from pirating backgrounds. (Not all, but a lot)
Its easy to see why really, unlike consensual PvP the people you come across as a pirate are often ill prepared and provide good target practice for the 'real' thing. Also very few pirates or pirate corporations stand the test of time.. they seem to disband and reform under a different banner more than any other type of corporation.
Penny for your toughts? 
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:09:00 -
[2]
Its a valid comment.
But It would indeed be fairer To say that ANTI PIRACY is the school of PvP.
Us Pirates provide you with the means to shoot us in anywhere due to our sec statuses. I Started my Life as a Miner, I then got involved in the great Northern War, Then joined Oblivion systems and moved into venal and learnt PvP the Hard way from BoB.
Reikoku declared war on us, And hit us hard daily, Fleets of Rifters fitted with 2 Standard launchers and cruise missiles in them, Ahh those were the days ! Then there was those nasty Ruptures that they came at us with, spitting cruise missiles out like anything. Its Reikoku we have to Thank for our PvP skills.
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I Pity the Fool ! |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:11:00 -
[3]
Piracy is not really PVP, if you see PVP as "fighting others". Piracy is hunting, which is the first step to fighting. Practicing to find people and to strike hard and fast is essential if you wanna become a good fighter, and what better method is there than to hunt like a pirate? If you screw up, all that happens is that the target gets away. If you screw up in a live PVP situation without hunting experience, you'll probably end up getting killed and not be able to learn anything before you're out in a new ship again.
Think of it as hunting an animal, aiming and pulling the trigger is a minor part of the hunt. Most of the time is spent waiting or looking for a target, then comes the part where you must position yourself for the shot, and then there's the takedown. A PVP fight however is an extension of the hunt. Consider it to kill a bear with a spear. To quote Leon: The first weapon you will learn is the sniper rifle, and in the end you will learn the knife.
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Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Piracy is not really PVP, if you see PVP as "fighting others". Piracy is hunting, which is the first step to fighting. Practicing to find people and to strike hard and fast is essential if you wanna become a good fighter, and what better method is there than to hunt like a pirate? If you screw up, all that happens is that the target gets away. If you screw up in a live PVP situation without hunting experience, you'll probably end up getting killed and not be able to learn anything before you're out in a new ship again.
Think of it as hunting an animal, aiming and pulling the trigger is a minor part of the hunt. Most of the time is spent waiting or looking for a target, then comes the part where you must position yourself for the shot, and then there's the takedown. A PVP fight however is an extension of the hunt. Consider it to kill a bear with a spear. To quote Leon: The first weapon you will learn is the sniper rifle, and in the end you will learn the knife.
So pirates dont fight ? News to me.... Id say we get more 1on1's than any other proffesion 
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-= |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 27/02/2006 10:33:38
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Piracy is not really PVP, if you see PVP as "fighting others". Piracy is hunting, which is the first step to fighting.
I can suscribe to that.
If by PvP you understand 'ship combat', pirating is just one niche of it. Of course, quite a few techinques work for other niches, but there are those that don't... and sometimes 'thinking like a pirate' is not the best mindframe for other areas.
Basically, while pirating you are after targets that either don't expect you attacking them, or assume they are strong enough to drive you away. As Grim points above, usually (although of course not always), if a pirate knows his trade 'right', once he can get to his target, the fight is over.
The better part of a profitable experience is being patient enough to engage the correct target at just the right time.
In other forms of combat such as fleet battles, both sides know perfectly well the other is in the system, and the 'game' is outmanouvering the other guys into your perfect range; the fight in itself is an important part of the encounter; many times the objective are not the ships, but infrastructure (take down a POS), and so on.
Even setups are different. Take inties, for example. Some 'combat' setups (in particular inties set up to fight other inties 1 vs 1) don't use a scrambler: you are trying to find an opponent who wants to engage you, and you count on being able to, once engaged, kill him fast enough; in a 'belt pirating' setup, you always need a scrambler if you want to catch your target.
Bottom line: I would say that yep, as a start, pirating is an optiont to learn the ropes. But techniques, setups and oponents being different, being a good pirate does not mean you are good in other PvP situations.
If I had to cast my vote, I'd say that the best PvP school would be a mercenary corp though.
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Daos Leghki
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:45:00 -
[6]
Without intending to offend pirates or start a flame war, I'd think that anti-pirates are a better start for PvP players. Certainly, a lot of pirates become good PvP'ers, but they get into it because of the thrill. I would imagine that after a while attacking targets that don't have the capacity to kill you (and a good pirate does just that) might get boring after a while. As an anti-pirate, you know you're fighting someone who is equipped to fight and not mine, NPC, etc.
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Valdir Mustafar
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Piracy is not really PVP, if you see PVP as "fighting others". Piracy is hunting, which is the first step to fighting. Practicing to find people and to strike hard and fast is essential if you wanna become a good fighter, and what better method is there than to hunt like a pirate? If you screw up, all that happens is that the target gets away. If you screw up in a live PVP situation without hunting experience, you'll probably end up getting killed and not be able to learn anything before you're out in a new ship again.
Think of it as hunting an animal, aiming and pulling the trigger is a minor part of the hunt. Most of the time is spent waiting or looking for a target, then comes the part where you must position yourself for the shot, and then there's the takedown. A PVP fight however is an extension of the hunt. Consider it to kill a bear with a spear. To quote Leon: The first weapon you will learn is the sniper rifle, and in the end you will learn the knife.
So pirates dont fight ? News to me.... Id say we get more 1on1's than any other proffesion
Alliaanna
I agree with Alliaanna..
"If you screw up, all that happens is that the target gets away." <-- Well i attack ships that are bigger than my cruiser, so the risk is also that they are pvp fitted..
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Arr! I stab at thee |
Anti AntiPirate
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:14:00 -
[8]
I agree with both sides of the argument, on various points. IMO intel is 99% of the battle. Hence, a pirate should never find himself in a 'fair' fight. If he's done his job right, once he gets his target locked down, it's all over.
On the other hand, I like to go after targets that are much larger and/or more dangerous than myself, just to push the envelope and see how far I can get with my setup before I find it's limits.
No, I'm not going to undock and engage 4 BSs with my cruiser, but I will go after a lone cruiser piloted by a 2 year old character with my cruiser and my 250K SP. Killing miners and ships fitted for NPCing won't teach you how to attack PVP combat ships, but it will teach you the techniques to find your target and precisely time an attack.
Fleet combat is a world unto it's own. Solo PVP technique is completely useless in fleet combat. However, the steady nerves and the clear thinking that you earn from hundreds of engagements while soloing is in my opinion far more important than the actual mechanics of combat. You can always learn that, but until you get a very large volume of engagements under your belt, you're going to make mistakes very often, just because of the stress of combat.
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Hinik
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:23:00 -
[9]
I'd have to disagree with a couple of points. The best school of PvP is, in my humble opinion being in a happy industrial corp when you are decced by some extortionists. In my experience, if you're willing to fight these extortionists they'll respect and tell you where you're going wrong, you lose ships regularly but you also glean very useful information.
And just in case you don't have the luxury of having a merc corp or something similar dec you, pirates are an excellent source of PvP skill honing. We at ATUF don't back away from fights with other PvP corporations, and in fact we kill both pirates and antipirates at the same rate we kill innocent miners and mission runners. And sometimes heaily outgunned... sometimes.
Thing is, Pirate or Antipirate or even mercenary... you have ample opportunity to better your skill, and no one profession is a surefire way of getting useful experience.
With Antipiracy you get fights a lot less than either of the other professions, due to the fact that if a half decent pirate doesn't want to fight... you won't be fighting. with the Mercing profession, you have time between contracts that you can't use to keep your skills in order, and more often than not, for a smaller Merc outfit... your targets will stay docked. And as for piracy... well you get targets all the time, and you get to pick and chose from a wide selection... if you wanna kill a few antipirates today... you know where to find them, likewise if you want to get better at scanning a target to the belt they're in, you can do that.
IMO... Piracy 4tw
Sorry about the length of the post, I got rambling 
LOVES CHARITY REGARD |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:00:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 27/02/2006 12:00:37
Originally by: Anti AntiPirate
On the other hand, I like to go after targets that are much larger and/or more dangerous than myself, just to push the envelope and see how far I can get with my setup before I find it's limits.
He he he... that is, roughly, where 'piracy' ends and 'combat' starts, I'd say. Yeah, pirates do engage in combat a lot of time... but that is for the thrill, adrenaline, challenge, sheer boredom, and other reasons.
But piracy itself is being able to track down, warp on top of, target and warpscramle a target softer than you, that will either give you a nice ransom, or refuse to pay and drop expensive loot, all before the cavalry arrives.
If you find yourself 'fighting bravely and going down with your ship', either you did something wrong, or you were not pirating to begin with. Piracy's objective is not the fight, but the money.
This mindset may not apply to other 'PvP professions', since they usually have a different objective and, more important, a different source of isk (a merc gets paid to blow ships up, a corp memeber gets cheap ships/mods from the corp, and so forth).
Barriers - an EVE novel |
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ghostof Duhoh
Would it be fair to say that Piracy is the school of PvP?
It seems that it is the most common starting career for PvP'ers. Look at high profile PvP groups like BOB, many of their pilots learned the ropes from piracy. In fact most prolific PvP'ers out there come from pirating backgrounds. (Not all, but a lot)
Its easy to see why really, unlike consensual PvP the people you come across as a pirate are often ill prepared and provide good target practice for the 'real' thing. Also very few pirates or pirate corporations stand the test of time.. they seem to disband and reform under a different banner more than any other type of corporation.
Penny for your toughts?
Nope, piracy is school of cowardice, hiding, hitting, running and logging.
There are few good exceptions in Eve, but in common, average pirate is weakly armed and low-experienced person who can kill either complete noobs or indus/barge.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
So pirates dont fight ? News to me.... Id say we get more 1on1's than any other proffesion
Alliaanna
Oh, no. Alloiaanna, The Raven Nerfer!
1. Participation in fight doesn't mean participation in PvP. Freighter pilot also may take participance in PvP fight.
2. 1vs1 engagement is only small parts of PvP world of Eve. Remember this. Sometimes you will understand why.
3. Pirate to live must be almost 100% of time on winning side. It is possible only engaging only DEFENSLESS ships and/or WEAKER pilots.
4. Pirate should not use good equipment. It is too pricey for them.
Of course, there are honourable exceptions from the rules.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Iberi
1. Participation in fight doesn't mean participation in PvP. Freighter pilot also may take participance in PvP fight.
?
Originally by: Iberi
3. Pirate to live must be almost 100% of time on winning side. It is possible only engaging only DEFENSLESS ships and/or WEAKER pilots.
Lies. People in belts usually don't fit scramblers. Why not go for a bs when you know he probably doesn't have a scrambler, no matter what ship you're flying. I estimate I've pirated about 30-35 peeps. Lost about 5 fights. Lost 1 ship (oh, and a rifter to sentries, but that doesn't really count imo  )
Originally by: Iberi
4. Pirate should not use good equipment. It is too pricey for them.
Again, no scramblers, so little risk in using t2/named.
You don't know what you're talking about imo.
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Iberi
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Iberi
1. Participation in fight doesn't mean participation in PvP. Freighter pilot also may take participance in PvP fight.
?
Killing barge(as main feat of 95% pirate community) is not PvP.
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Iberi
3. Pirate to live must be almost 100% of time on winning side. It is possible only engaging only DEFENSLESS ships and/or WEAKER pilots.
Lies.People in belts usually don't fit scramblers. Why not go for a bs when you know he probably doesn't have a scrambler, no matter what ship you're flying. I estimate I've pirated about 30-35 peeps. Lost about 5 fights. Lost 1 ship (oh, and a rifter to sentries, but that doesn't really count imo )
Oh, dear! Please, left your cheap stories for your kids. Or you are kinda joking?
A BS in belts will not have scrambler(almost for sure) but you have zero chance to break his tank. In your pitiful pirate ship( Rifter, ceptor, or even AF if you could afford to lost more than 10kk in a turn) you cannot break even good battlecruiser tank. What a sense to go for BS in belts? May be you dont know that you have good chance to see jumping directly on your head enemy interceptor with scrambler/web supported by nasty Harpy or Enyo?
Originally by: Iberi
4. Pirate should not use good equipment. It is too pricey for them.
Again, no scramblers, so little risk in using t2/named.
You don't know what you're talking about imo.
I know matter better than you could even imagine.
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Callistus
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Callistus on 27/02/2006 14:54:08
Sorry but you're completely wrong about AFs and interceptors not being able to break the tank on a battlecruiser.
And I would comment on your other points but after re-reading your post a few times I still can't work out what you're actually saying. "May be you dont know that you have good chance to see jumping directly on your head enemy interceptor with scrambler/web supported by nasty Harpy or Enyo?" Huh?
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Iberi
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Callistus
Edited by: Callistus on 27/02/2006 14:54:08
Sorry but you're completely wrong about AFs and interceptors not being able to break the tank on a battlecruiser.
Please, take a look at the difference AFs and AF, interceptors and interceptor. Three or four interceptors could destroy BS. And I wish you good luck in breaking BS tank alone in AF or ceptor.
Quote:
And I would comment on your other points but after re-reading your post a few times I still can't work out what you're actually saying. "May be you dont know that you have good chance to see jumping directly on your head enemy interceptor with scrambler/web supported by nasty Harpy or Enyo?" Huh?
Ever seen warping in mates of the "prey"? And such prey as BS could wait for support long enough...
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Callistus
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:18:00 -
[17]
Then take a look at my post again; I said battlecruiser, and I was refering to a solo AF or interceptor. It is true that this would take a while and there is the possibility of reinforcements arriving, but that can be said for both sides.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:24:00 -
[18]
Piracy is definivly the mother of PVP in EVE. Why? Pirates are the aggressors - they started it, they are allways in the first line and developed any tactic. Pirates invented sniping, tanking, speed setups and and and. They had to. To kill lousy NPCs you don&t need much skill. To nail other players you need all those strategys that now are standards in PVP.
Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/
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Pa1nbringr
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Posted - 2006.02.27 16:37:00 -
[19]
piracy in 0.0 teaches you pvp, piracy in empire just makes you more money
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Jaddor
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Posted - 2006.02.27 16:51:00 -
[20]
Pirates in empire are basically carebears.
Don't be fooled into thinking carebears don't like to PvP, carebears do like pvp they just don't handling losing in pvp very well. Sniper gate camping and warping out as soon as anyone can challange you, going after miners and ratters in ships set for pvp, sitting on a gate to tank the sentries if its a hawler and being able to jump out if its a warship and run to your hidey hole, is carebear pvp.
Sure it takes some skills and its not 'easy' but its the kind of pvp a carebear wants. Low chance of death.
Dealing with these guys is where a non-pvper will first learn about it in eve yes. To an old time pvper, we have been dealing with these guys since pvp games came out.
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2006.02.27 17:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Iberi
And I wish you good luck in breaking BS tank alone in AF or ceptor.
*smiles*
In that, you are correct.
Now, with a little help of a few friends...
...say, for example, those NPCs the BS was shooting at, who of course will help you since you are helping them... 
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Iberi
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Posted - 2006.02.27 18:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Herko Kerghans
*smiles*
In that, you are correct.
Now, with a little help of a few friends...
...say, for example, those NPCs the BS was shooting at, who of course will help you since you are helping them...
Yes, you are correct, but
in low sec no NPCs BS(or extremely rare). And other guys not such dangerous.
you get no killmail in 2/3 cases.
depending of fit you may have one chance to kill - one heavy NOS stops you.
you have to choose target carefully and wait for correct time.
even having BS tank broken you have no guarantees that m8s of prey are warping to you just now.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.02.27 18:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Callistus
Then take a look at my post again; I said battlecruiser, and I was refering to a solo AF or interceptor. It is true that this would take a while and there is the possibility of reinforcements arriving, but that can be said for both sides.
Theoretically yes. But do you know how much damage could eat, lets say Ferox? Passively? A lots. In any way you may try to test.
The only danger for such ferox is MWDing ceptor out of med NOS distance. But at this distance you must use also very hungry for capacitor Warp Disruptor. It may be quite difficult to sustain running mwd, disruptor and some weapon.
And do not forget about drones. This may be very nasty surprise for you.
Originally by: Callistus
It is true that this would take a while and there is the possibility of reinforcements arriving, but that can be said for both sides.
Yes. May. But from the bad side it is up to well organized and clever pirate corps having spare pilots to fight. From the good side enough first ready to fly noob in something bigger than t1 frigate tier 1 to kill you.
Tell me honestly /if you in ceptor, lets it be Taranis, slowly beating Prophecy. You see warp in and quickly flying to you Kestrel what is your reaction?/ Will you fight for death? 
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Jennifae
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Posted - 2006.02.27 22:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jaddor
Pirates in empire are basically carebears.
Don't be fooled into thinking carebears don't like to PvP, carebears do like pvp they just don't handling losing in pvp very well. Sniper gate camping and warping out as soon as anyone can challange you, going after miners and ratters in ships set for pvp, sitting on a gate to tank the sentries if its a hawler and being able to jump out if its a warship and run to your hidey hole, is carebear pvp.
Sure it takes some skills and its not 'easy' but its the kind of pvp a carebear wants. Low chance of death.
Dealing with these guys is where a non-pvper will first learn about it in eve yes. To an old time pvper, we have been dealing with these guys since pvp games came out.
Thinly veiled carebear whine. heh. Why didn't you just post that in your f-d up view "pirates are people who shoot at those who can't fight back." Then, at least, we could have identified it as the age old whine it is.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.02.27 23:03:00 -
[25]
I have two years of anti-pirate experience on my main characters, before I went pirate. All I can say is this:
Anti-piracy is a poor excuse for PvP training. Primarily on the defensive, a lot of skills required for actively finding a target are never used as often as someone who pirates. A lot of anti-piracy is waiting near a stargate or station, continually having to be the reaction to the pirates action. While there are active pirate hunts in AP groups it is never as tactically involved, in my experience, as an active hunt for victims of any sort. Anti-piracy also teaches defensive, blob tactics, where as piracy generally teaches adaptability according to situation.
Both sides teach something important, but anti-piracy teaches more patience and book reading than true PvP combat.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.02.28 00:31:00 -
[26]
Heh...everyone will have a strong opinion on this subject, and nobody in either camp is gonna agree with each other.
The simple fact of the matter is that a good pirate is going to be shooting at a more or less helpless target...and a pirate hunter is going to be shooting at a well armed, well skilled pilot. Blob tactics are popular, yes, but the successful pirate hunters shed the blob and go on patrols themselves. You get more kills that way, because a pirate will run from a blob...he won't run from a solo ship. Usually.
Belt pirates engage npc-ers who are (stupidly) kitted to tank only the damage type of the npc in the area, and usually kitted to snipe whilst kiting. This makes them extremely vulnerable to, say, a vagabond or deimos that will just drop out on top of 'em, rock 'em under the reach of their guns, grab the loot and run away laughing. Sniping pirates shoot at ships that can't touch 'em at range. A proper pirate minimizes his risk. And a lot of pirates are good at doing just that.
Antipirates have to learn how to bait, trap, and kill an already dangerous target.
Both are good ways to learn combat. Neither approach it from the same angle.
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Vajell
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Posted - 2006.02.28 00:57:00 -
[27]
9/10 calling themselves "anti-pirates" don't have a clue about pvp
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Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.02.28 01:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Garreck
Heh...everyone will have a strong opinion on this subject, and nobody in either camp is gonna agree with each other.
The simple fact of the matter is that a good pirate is going to be shooting at a more or less helpless target...and a pirate hunter is going to be shooting at a well armed, well skilled pilot. Blob tactics are popular, yes, but the successful pirate hunters shed the blob and go on patrols themselves. You get more kills that way, because a pirate will run from a blob...he won't run from a solo ship. Usually.
Belt pirates engage npc-ers who are (stupidly) kitted to tank only the damage type of the npc in the area, and usually kitted to snipe whilst kiting. This makes them extremely vulnerable to, say, a vagabond or deimos that will just drop out on top of 'em, rock 'em under the reach of their guns, grab the loot and run away laughing. Sniping pirates shoot at ships that can't touch 'em at range. A proper pirate minimizes his risk. And a lot of pirates are good at doing just that.
Antipirates have to learn how to bait, trap, and kill an already dangerous target.
Both are good ways to learn combat. Neither approach it from the same angle.
Single most truthful post in this thread.
I'd like to touch on the blob tactic used by anti-pirates. Most anti-pirates used the blob tactic due to the common nature of outlaws and pirates alike to use warp core stabs. A single ship simply can't fit that many warp scramblers and still be successful in a 1v1. However, I have witnessed more often than not, pirates using huge overkills to kill just on target, its sometimes pathetic tbh.
Furthermore, anti-piracy is indeed more true pvp than piracy itself. Anti-pirates usually fight well-armed, experienced pilots while pirates will usually engage in quick ganks, miners, and other defenceless targets.
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Join LFC, become someone, become family. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.02.28 07:08:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 28/02/2006 07:10:02
piratin in lowsec and killin in 0.0 is not a real big difference.
the agressio timer,
and the sentries make the difference - and maybe the skilllvl of the locals ;).
ofc, in 0.0 u have other kinds of battles too,
but killin ppl in belts, snipin or campin is a daily operation everywhere.
edit, even ransomin happens from time to time - but not so oftena s most 0.0 ppl have more money then the lowsec ppl, i guess.
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2006.02.28 07:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 28/02/2006 08:00:47
Originally by: Kyguard
Furthermore, anti-piracy is indeed more true pvp than piracy itself. Anti-pirates usually fight well-armed, experienced pilots while pirates will usually engage in quick ganks, miners, and other defenceless targets.
Dunno about the 'true' part, tbh. I'd just say 'different', or 'different areas' perhaps. The truth is that they are both very specialized careers, so although both useful to learn the PvP ropes, none of them is "the" PvP school.
Belt-piracy is the art of findind and engaging quickly, while anti-piracy is IMHO more headed towards being able to lure and bait your prey to engage. None of them teach that many things about, say, fleet combat, POS attack/defense, etc.
No discussion about pirates being, usually, after softer prey than anti-pirates (although of course it is not always the case). That is one of the difference with other forms of PvP: part of the pirate skills is to be able to gauge your opponent quickly and accurately just in the scanner (without being totally sure who is the pilot, not having a visual to see how many guns he has, etc)
One detail that may give the pirace career a somewhat harder edge is if you go the outlaw route; having low-sec turned into 0.0 for you, while sentry guys still don't allow you to shoot first, is a good school into staying alert (that is not, strictly speaking, a PvP technique, but it always help).
Barriers - an EVE novel |
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