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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
294
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 11:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before I even start, I know this will be a wildly unpopular thing to say, but like the proverbial elephant in the room, it's something that needs to be addressed.
I'll start off by observing that, as we all know, RMT is quickly becoming the Go-To means to monetize an MMO.
It's also clear from CCPs latest debacle, that they're seeking a way to get RMT into eve somehow, to increase income. Their initial effort to put it in directly backfired spectacularly (sadly, but I'll get to that) and so they back doored it via SOMER Blink, This has also proved wildly unpopular (for good reason).
Personally, I think we screwed up with the huge fit over WiS. Character customization and alternate color scheme ships are pretty much the least offensive means I can think of, and if financed by said RMT, the actual amount of dev man hours they would have taken away from anything else would have likely been in the single digits. Further, the increased income would have allowed larger dev teams, leading to getting more content for everything else too.
I think it might behoove us to examine just what sort and level of RMT we'd find acceptable in game before CCP ganks us with it and tells us to HTFU. Because 'none' clearly is not happening,
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
441
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 11:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it might behoove us to examine just what sort and level of RMT we'd find acceptable in game before CCP ganks us with it and tells us to HTFU. None.
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Because 'none' clearly is not happening It is for me, I got plenty of other game I can play. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Skill Training Online
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
149
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Posted - 2013.11.26 11:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
OP has no point. Thank You Obama! |
Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
133
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Posted - 2013.11.26 11:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Do you know that RMT and the CCP idea of getting the players to pay for more things in game are two complete different things? |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
294
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thebriwan wrote:Do you know that RMT and the CCP idea of getting the players to pay for more things in game are two complete different things?
You do know that most RMT money is reinvested n the game. Unless you're EA, that is.
Crumplecorn wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it might behoove us to examine just what sort and level of RMT we'd find acceptable in game before CCP ganks us with it and tells us to HTFU. None. Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Because 'none' clearly is not happening It is for me, I got plenty of other game I can play.
At the rate that it's proliferating across MMOs (and now some Non-MMO genres now), not for long you don't. Some subscription based ones have even started having limited RMT. Most of the newer MMOs, and some that have existed for quite a while now are embracing it to a greater or lesser degree.
Rather than sit with our heads in the sand and wait for **** to happen, I think that the best approach would be to take the initiative and shape the situation ourselves.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
GreenSeed
750
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Posted - 2013.11.26 12:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote: I'll start off by observing that, as we all know, RMT is quickly becoming the Go-To means to monetize an MMO.
[Citation Needed] |
Artimis Scout
Wormhole Cartography
33
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Posted - 2013.11.26 12:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Did someone get RMT and Free to Play mixed up?? |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
565
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Posted - 2013.11.26 12:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
The "fit" was thrown mostly (but not exclusively) because people were afraid of 2 things:
1. Possibility of vanity items being first step to bllatant P2W (like golden ammo in WoT or whatever, you know what I mean). 2. Major issues caused during Incarna deployment that indicated that CCP is apparently fine with sacrificing any meaningful content development to bring in dem "hats", making the game unplayable for many (what's with CQ view by default that was straining GPUs of that time).
Plus back then making money off "hats" wasn't too common, another reason for people to go suspicious.
Me? I believe there's a huge leap between cosmetics and "microtransactionable" stuff that affects gameplay, especially when we already have PLEX system that hangs somewhere inbetween. For all I care, fill the game with avatar hats, there are plenty of ways to make them irrelevant to ISK and markets.
It's just that I'm not sure whether it's a good financial investment for CCP or not and will it pay off. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
442
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:At the rate that it's proliferating across MMOs (and now some Non-MMO genres now), not for long you don't. Last I checked games don't have an expiration date. If they stopped making games tomorrow, I'd still have plenty of other games to play.
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think that the best approach would be to take the initiative and shape the situation ourselves. Decisions about how to make money off a game are made by the suits at the top. No players or (decent) developers want nickel-and-diming, it happens because there is some greedy **** at the top who doesn't give a **** about the game. "Taking the initiative" won't change what kind of person is in charge of any given game. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Azitek
Serenity Labs
92
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Posted - 2013.11.26 12:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
You seems to be confusing RMT with Micro Transactions.
RMT: When a third party offers you ingame money in exchange for real money, thus the name Real Money Trading. Banned in every game that I know of, because the company who owns the game makes no money off it, it messes with the economy, etc. Micro Transactions: When the game's creating company offers ingame items for a price through their store. Not uncommon, because the money is retained by the developing company. |
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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
294
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Posted - 2013.11.26 12:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Artimis Scout wrote:Did someone get RMT and Free to Play mixed up??
No, actually. F2P is usually monetized by a more 'controlled' (Ie the company is the onyl legal vendor) version of RMT.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
294
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Azitek wrote:You seems to be confusing RMT with Micro Transactions.
RMT: When a third party offers you ingame money in exchange for real money, thus the name Real Money Trading. Banned in every game that I know of, because the company who owns the game makes no money off it, it messes with the economy, etc. Micro Transactions: When the game's creating company offers ingame items for a price through their store. Not uncommon, because the money is retained by the developing company.
You realize that microtransactions are a subcategory of real money transactions. Not real money trading. RMT is not limited to a 3rd party.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
442
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:No, actually. F2P is usually monetized by a more 'controlled' (Ie the company is the onyl legal vendor) version of RMT. Microtransactions and RMT are completely different things, and you are in fact talking about the former. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
295
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:No, actually. F2P is usually monetized by a more 'controlled' (Ie the company is the onyl legal vendor) version of RMT. Microtransactions and RMT are completely different things, and you are in fact talking about the former.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/09/26/informal-rmt-study-looks-at-microtransaction-effects-across-mult/
The "microtransactions as form of RMT" debate is for another forum. I'll assume from the other posts that everyone understood what I was talking about.
I'll throw in that if I got it wrong, so did Massivly, Bitgamer, and Wikipedia.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
443
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
A gaming website and a wikipedia article that contradicts you. Color me convinced. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
4867
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Posted - 2013.11.26 12:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Micro-transactions is where the developers sell players little things in game for real money.
RMT is where players sell other players in game things for real money.
They are not the same.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
296
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
This has been an entertaining side trip in semantics, but can we please address the point? OP edited so that it includes the words 'microtransactions' to make you happy. Now, to the actual issue.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
296
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Double Post.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Lyta Jhonson
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Further, the increased income would have allowed larger dev teams, leading to getting more content for everything else too. As the history proven time and time again with CCP it's way around: more income from EVE makes them start side projects which draw away devs from EVE but once players start to leave or cancel secondary accounts EVE gets temporary dev attention boost. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1657
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
I had suspected you were a forum alt for trolling.
I no longer suspect that. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
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Mythrandier
Spacelane Salvage
214
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I think it might behoove us to examine just what sort and level of RMT we'd find acceptable in game before CCP ganks us with it and tells us to HTFU. None. Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Because 'none' clearly is not happening It is for me, I got plenty of other game I can play.
This.
Having played a few games that went F2P and some that were setup that way from the outset, I can honestly say that if any aspect of that wormed its way into EvE that would be me and my accounts done here.
When you have a fix price (monthly or whatever) the Dev time is allotted to make the game better, fix bugs and generally try to GÇ£sellGÇ¥ the game by making it a better product. When you get to F2P/Microtransaction model then Dev time is spent making things to sell. Look at WoT, the Devs there are so blatantly geared towards new tanks, new tech trees etc etc that bugs that have been in there since beta just get ignored.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
296
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I had suspected you were a forum alt for trolling.
I no longer suspect that.
How is pointing out that burying one's head in the sand is not productive 'trolling'?
I know the concept of a serious thread to actually address a real issue is an alien concept for some of you, but putting together a reasoned list of things we're willing to accept and what we're not that we can hand the CSM (in theory) and have them tell CCP 'here's some middle ground' is probably the best way forward.
It sure beats having CCP simply decide one day what shape RMT and microtransactions will have in game, which is what WoW, TOR, and quite a few others have gotten.
Mythrandier wrote: When you get to F2P/Microtransaction model then Dev time is spent making things to sell. Look at WoT, the Devs there are so blatantly geared towards new tanks, new tech trees etc etc that bugs that have been in there since beta just get ignored.
So how'd they make money on that new physics engine? And, out of curiosity, which bugs are you referring to?
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
187
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just one question, out of curiosity:
What would you like to pay for?
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
562
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don-àt believe this thread is from today. Someone must have switched the dates. It stinks necro. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
446
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:It sure beats having CCP simply decide one day what shape RMT and microtransactions will have in game If and when CCP decide to get greedy again, I'm not sure that handing them a list titled "things you can get away with before we will even *start* complaining" is really going to help us.
On the other hand, rabbling loudly and/or jumping ship instantly as soon as it appears on the radar has been shown to work. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
176
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Micro-transactions have been failing spectacularly across the board. Games that utilize them are generally those that are on the verge of collapse or are designed for instant gratification. Examples include World of Tanks(which is doing so poorly the developer has created a direct competitor to it), Grepolis(which is funded by a tiny portion of the playerbase) and other such games that lack a future. A proud member of Wolfbane Hauler Inc. We are currently recruiting pilots of all skill levels. We need both industrial combat specialists. For more information see our ad:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3764273&#post3764273 |
Eto Tekai
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
42
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why is my 30 dollars a month + buying a plex with isk not enough to be able to get 100% of the games content?
I shouldn't have to pay MORE to be able to access things, especially things that take up dev time. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
296
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:On the other hand, rabbling loudly and/or jumping ship instantly as soon as it appears on the radar has been shown to work.
Because rabbling loudly only works for some many tries before the devs say 'go ahead and gtfo'. Eventually they'll decide that they have enough players to adsorb the loss.
Xavier Higdon wrote: Examples include World of Tanks(which is doing so poorly the developer has created a direct competitor to it), Grepolis(which is funded by a tiny portion of the playerbase) and other such games that lack a future.
If you mean World of Warplanes, no they didn't. The two games play rather differently though both share the same account. Further, for doing so poorly, they also just bought the rights to Masters of Orion and Total Annihilation.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
187
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 14:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote: Just one question, out of curiosity:
What would you like to pay for?
^^. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8778
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 14:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP already know the answer and its no to microtransactions. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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