Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tiny M
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 14:09:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Tiny M on 28/02/2006 14:09:48 as for being quoted
"Small puppies make funny sounds when you kick them."
I would never kick puppies, only kittens
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 14:33:00 -
[62]
Some facts..
Taking the most direct route in 0.0 is oftentimes not the best idea. If there is a conflict ongoing, then diverting arround it makes sense. It also makes sense to pass through systems where you know who is in local, for example in a system where you had stations.
The accident was likely (and there has sofar been no refuting of this) caused by a pilot error on the part of the SOE pilot, who mis-set the parameters of his ships warp drive (since the convoy was under fire) - leading to the disaster.
There is no evidence of munitions being moved (it would not be "smuggling" even if if it were munitions, since they are fully legal in unsecure space), and no reason for munitions to be moved along that route, and every reason for aid supplys to be moved.
Despite anything that Venture corp may claim, they have no reputation as any form of charitable organisation, indeed they argue that they are barbarians. SOE is a well known neutral humanitarian organisaiton and attacks on them are an attack on the very foundations and rule of law which all four Empires hold true to.
Venturecorp are deliberately mocking SOE by this act, especially claiming that their own incompetence in course setting is anything to do with SOE. There is no evidence that they were moving humanitatian supplies, and given their own statements on barbarism I would seriously doubt that anything of the sort was being carried. If it was, I would like to see proof of this.
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Kryztal
Oooohh Big words there fella, why not post with your main ?
VNTR will always be respected for their history in EvE, by those that know them. Dont know how much a noobie corp alt would know them but im sure if you would reveal your main insted of beeing a spineless coward we might understand where your coming from.
DESIUS were is my duel ?
Keep yer shirt on missy!
..and yes, the Sex Toys can was just for you. I was planning on dropping it off in Delve or Period Basis on our way to Reschard V. However the JF propaganda can was definately meant for the planetside colonists, in order to give them hope and freedom.
|
Destable
|
Posted - 2006.02.28 20:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
|
Psychopat
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 01:41:00 -
[65]
Ohhh god the horror of it all.
Cant we all just get along MoooooÖ
|
Sypher313
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 04:46:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Destable
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
all i gotta say is, BoooHoo Maya, Booohooo now go get a life outside of yer Pod
|
Jasmine Constantine
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 16:12:00 -
[67]
I feel like such a fool for thinking people might consider a 1v1 challenge a meaningful criticism on the intellectual fallacies and frailties of might makes right nationalism
(time to put in my app to glamour syndicate )
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Sypher313
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:19:00 -
[68]
1v1's dont mean anything in a "dialogue" or "debate" over the rights and wrongs of any arguement IMO. You could kill me 10 times in a 1v1 and i'd still disagree with you, me dying in 1v1s would mean i sux at paper/scissors/rocks continously Dont be so tough on yourself
1v1s will make you feel good tho but i doubt peeps are going to say, "ok You win and I'm wrong, I win and Your wrong"
Wouldnt you blowing up a persons ship in a 1v1 only further endorse the might makes right thought process?
|
Jasmine Constantine
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:32:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sypher313 1v1's dont mean anything in a "dialogue" or "debate" over the rights and wrongs of any arguement IMO. You could kill me 10 times in a 1v1 and i'd still disagree with you, me dying in 1v1s would mean i sux at paper/scissors/rocks continously Dont be so tough on yourself
1v1s will make you feel good tho but i doubt peeps are going to say, "ok You win and I'm wrong, I win and Your wrong"
Wouldnt you blowing up a persons ship in a 1v1 only further endorse the might makes right thought process?
That was kinda the point I was making Sypher ... pointing out a fallacy in the "territorialism makes us strong and is thus good" thing. End of the day you can't always rely on other people to do your fighting for you. Sometimes you have to work on your own, get out of bad situations and take responsibilty for your own decisions. And while I can acknowledge that having a gang of buddies blobbing all targets makes you feel powerful, its never really tested until its you and some other enemy duking it out 1v1. Thing with JF, we have some of the best fighters in Eve in small unit tactics but we don't use their skills to bully people who have done us no wrong. We use fighting to make propaganda points and illustrate the vulnerability in territorial memes. So having individual members of a hugely powerful territorialist alliance losing 1v1s to members of little jericho's propaganda engine is something that helps to change other people's minds.
And lets face it. In their heart of hearts, everyone wants to be a hero and single combat is the cauldron that forges heroes into life
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:08:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Sypher313
Originally by: Destable
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
all i gotta say is, BoooHoo Maya, Booohooo now go get a life outside of yer Pod
I'm sorry, are you unable to refute my argument and act the clown because I'm right?
Heh.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
|
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:57:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Desius on 01/03/2006 19:57:53
|
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:58:00 -
[72]
This, in essence, is why I do not agree with your application of your beliefs. Mainly that your application is not universal. You condemn primarily defensive organizations whos offense is geared not for expansion but for maintaining and defending against enemies to their creation at the same time turn a blind eye or even praise organizations which admittedly are destructive usurpers determined to make everything their property, including people..... most likely eventually including you. Unless you're happy to see the galaxy ruled by true tyrants and can actually accept that simply because they're "nice to you." If this is the case, your stated beliefs never were your real motivations.
|
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 19:58:00 -
[73]
The fallacy I see with the "individualist is in all ways, at all times better than nationalist" argument is that even in a nationalistic organization you have individuals just as capable as any other group. It's not just cut and dry indivudial vs mob mentality. The biggest difference I see is in the application and beliefs. On a macro level a group like ourselves, IRON, etc, believe in joint effort reaping joint rewards based on often similar but occassionally different motivations is the best way to go. While, and understand this is just what I've seen lately, groups like Jericho only believe in themselves and their personal goals as individuals and get upset when outside pressure is put upon them in the slightest. It seems too fixated on a wish to be the underdog solely for the sake of the same. Hence the "they don't tell us what to do" stance. It's not part of anything larger than themselves and the indivudual is the crux of power.
Back on the point of a 1v1 combat. The only thing that would ever show is that one pilot's skills, wealth, and in some aspects ability exceeded the other pilot due to time investment, specialization, a better aptitude for engagement, or a big wallet. It serves little purpose other than individual martial bragging rights but never actually concedes a point unless that point was "I'm a better military pilot than this other individual." Would I fight you for fun? yes. Would I fight you to defend a belief, asset, ally, or cause? yes. Would I fight you to settle an argument that had no relation to 'who was the better combat pilot"? No. I believe such outmoded concepts such as "let the best man win" being the de facto decider over a philosophical stance between indivuduals are preposterous. Much akin to a clan leader being chosen based entirely on besting all other comers and declared ruler with the reasoning "He defeated everyone in solo combat therefore he is god's chosen speaker and what he says must be the truth."
I believe you must build something greater than yourself by blood, sweat, and tears. I believe that in order to achieve this you need to work with like-minded individuals, therefore creating groups. I believe that what you have built should be protected and that the act of creating something does not inherently give those who put no effort into building it the right to share it, especially if their core philosophical belief is aimed to tear it down. You're not entitled to the wages of my labor simply because you want money. I believe nothing worth doing is easy.
You want nations without borders with complete freedom of choice, thought, and movement for every individual. I admit it is a noble ideal to follow and perhaps by making an effort in that direction you are ahead of your time but until humanity agrees as a group it will never happen - while 'kill for fun' organizations like BoB exist you will never be able to achieve this as you will always have to defend borders against those who simply wish to gain the power, prestige, wealth, and control of owning it.
The region you seem to prop up as the best example of the antithesis to your beliefs is Deklein. You seem to have almost simgled it out for attack. I find that quite IRONic as Dek is currently one of the most open and accepting regions in the known universe. IRON was founded to build deklein into a propering community and keep it safe from the BoB's of the universe. Defence policy switched to NBSI in reaction to groups taking advantage of the initial leniance with intent to tear it down. Perhaps eventually that can be changed and borders freely opened again - but not while it has so many enemies. If people wish to be a part of the Deklein community and actually assist in it's achievement instead of trying to disrupt and tear down it is rather easy to join. If someone is an enemy to IRON then there is generally a protective reason for it.
(continued...)
|
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:04:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I'm sorry, are you unable to refute my argument and act the clown because I'm right?
Heh.
I would love to actually debate an argument if I saw one Maya. Unfortunately most of what I see these days are variations of ad hominem attacks and not much else.
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:18:00 -
[75]
I suggest you train reading comprehension then.
Becuase what I have posted includes a systematic hyper-physics explination (in the other thread) of the true likely cause of the disaster - I'd refer you to it.
Your less coherent members are likely to get one liner replies, yes. You? I'd just hunt you if I saw you in space
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:38:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Desius on 01/03/2006 20:43:08 Edited by: Desius on 01/03/2006 20:40:15
Originally by: Maya Rkell I suggest you train reading comprehension then.
Becuase what I have posted includes a systematic hyper-physics explination (in the other thread) of the true likely cause of the disaster - I'd refer you to it.
Your less coherent members are likely to get one liner replies, yes. You? I'd just hunt you if I saw you in space
Yes. I saw the physics theories you posited as the cause of the freighter destruction.
I am unqualified to debate those theories as it is not my field of expertise. Alternatively, as there seems to be no precedent to apply this theory in this given case, coupled with the fact that what was quoted was at this point in the scientific community entirely unproven theory and conjecture I do not believe you are in a position, yourself, to argue it is fact of truth.
Scientifically, I cannot disprove or refute it and you likewise cannot show proof of fact - Effectively rendering it moot to true debate. You posited the theory, therefore the burden of proof is on you. To reverse that burden is entirely ineffectual.
Interesting stuff though
|
Sypher313
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sypher313
Originally by: Destable
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
all i gotta say is, BoooHoo Maya, Booohooo now go get a life outside of yer Pod
I'm sorry, are you unable to refute my argument and act the clown because I'm right?
Heh.
No i just act the clown for the giggle, nothing to do with you being right in any way shape or form.
I was mainly reacting to you wanting all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp and to have VentureCorp remove Desius from any position of authority we could post and request the same of your corp and members but in my opinion it'd just be us being a bunch of whiny podlings making totaly unreasonable demands, so i said..... BoooHooo Maya Boooohooo
Truth is you JF peeps annoy me with your propaganda crap that "OMG teh North is evil whaaaa boohoo they dont like us they should go, they dont let us in their space and cant stop us anyway from getting in, whaaa they should all die. We're just innocent folks just minding our own business trying to carry on our lives not interfeiring with anyone, OMG IRON is oppressing us whaaa. (im paraphrasing btw) and much more similar well written utter crap in my opinion.
Truth is your a bunch of **** disturbers, always stirring it up, always have been, always will be, its who you are and what you do
and yeah we are poking fun at you over this whole SOE thing cuz well you saw an opportunity to slander (repeatedly) IRON and hoping you gain polity points and post your bs for the next 30 pages over two communications bands. It had been a while since JF has had a 10 pager going so you're about due, looks like this is it......
So get going, puke it all out, you've said it 10,000 times and the other side has said it 10,000 times, its the same cruddy thread after thread on the same subject adnausium month after month, atleast you dont get tired of it (i'll hand ya that)
I dont have the time to invest in "getting into it" that you JF toons do. So my contribution is to act like a clown and maybe once or twice make a post that might actually contribute to the conversation, but that is rare
so yea LOOK at me OO the clown, but you are still wrong
|
Sypher313
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:40:00 -
[78]
you can take your systematic hyper-physics and jam them in that Exploding Sun you call your er ..head
|
Seiryu
|
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Maya Rkell I suggest you train reading comprehension then.
Becuase what I have posted includes a systematic hyper-physics explination (in the other thread) of the true likely cause of the disaster - I'd refer you to it.
Your less coherent members are likely to get one liner replies, yes. You? I'd just hunt you if I saw you in space
The problem with that explanation is that we weren't shooting at them when they warped. They were safe in empire with no immediate threat. ----True bravery is not lacking fear, but confronting it.----
|
ForceAttuned Krogoth
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 07:14:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Desius Jade, I'm quite sure if you contacted IRON/G/Razor with enough advance warning of your intentions it would be allowed - and in fact probably escorted as well. Have you tried?
As to your reply to the question of what you have done as far as actions over words, the context of that question was in regard to the Reschard relief efforts.
Quote: And what exactly is wrong with seeking to discredit a bunch of brigands complicit in the destruction of a humanitarian escort fleet...
Nothing is wrong with it. By all means, start discrediting. You could start here. Some starters for you: The convoy was not in "BoB space" and they had no knowledge of our actual planned route other than the destination and intention we made public when they jumped in.
i am speaking not for iron but my self in this matter
when the jove came to dek they were not shot at we had loads of people out side the station to greet them to our space, but we knew that they were coming.
If you posted about your "trip" on the forums, i my self would have been there to welcome you in to our space, and i am sure i would not stand alone. We have many guests enter our space from day to day but they ask first.
Also about this being a mock of your "supply run" well im not saying it was or was not but still, they did the same thing you did with the same intention and with the same result, using the same concept, so if our "Mock" trip would never work why would you ever think that yours would.
Then after knowing your trip would never work post on the News that IRON is all these things when BoB did the same thing... i think that they should be healed at the same lvl if you want to compare what IRON did and what BoB did to each convoy.
FORCEATTUNED KROGOTH [INTG] [IRON]
|
|
Desius
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 20:14:00 -
[81]
Naw Krogoth, as far as I am aware JF has absolutely no involvement in the Sisters of Eve/Mordu freighter op. They just came onto the forums afterwards to condemn IRON for being involved in attacking it.
|
Sharken
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 21:02:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Desius The fallacy I see with the "individualist is in all ways, at all times better than nationalist" argument is that even in a nationalistic organization you have individuals just as capable as any other group. It's not just cut and dry indivudial vs mob mentality. The biggest difference I see is in the application and beliefs. On a macro level a group like ourselves, IRON, etc, believe in joint effort reaping joint rewards based on often similar but occassionally different motivations is the best way to go. While, and understand this is just what I've seen lately, groups like Jericho only believe in themselves and their personal goals as individuals and get upset when outside pressure is put upon them in the slightest. It seems too fixated on a wish to be the underdog solely for the sake of the same. Hence the "they don't tell us what to do" stance. It's not part of anything larger than themselves and the indivudual is the crux of power.
Would you mind rephrasing that?
I have absolutely no clue what it is your trying to say.
|
Sypher313
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 21:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sharken
Originally by: Desius The fallacy I see with the "individualist is in all ways, at all times better than nationalist" argument is that even in a nationalistic organization you have individuals just as capable as any other group.
It's not just cut and dry indivudial vs mob mentality.
The biggest difference I see is in the application and beliefs. On a macro level a group like ourselves, IRON, etc, believe in joint effort reaping joint rewards based on often similar but occassionally different motivations is the best way to go.
While, and understand this is just what I've seen lately, groups like Jericho only believe in themselves and their personal goals as individuals and get upset when outside pressure is put upon them in the slightest.
It seems too fixated on a wish to be the underdog solely for the sake of the same. Hence the "they don't tell us what to do" stance.
It's not part of anything larger than themselves and the indivudual is the crux of power.
Would you mind rephrasing that?
I have absolutely no clue what it is your trying to say.
I spaced it out some that might help, but i will leave the "rephrasing" to Desius
|
Sharken
|
Posted - 2006.03.02 23:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sypher313
I spaced it out some that might help, but i will leave the "rephrasing" to Desius
Thanks now it looks even more complicated.
|
Gussi
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 22:37:00 -
[85]
Wish I was there.. oh well.. maybe next time. |
ParMizaN
|
Posted - 2006.03.03 23:29:00 -
[86]
I am a firm believer in natural election; those who are weak die while those who are strong prevail. Forget about those too weak and lazy to help themselves and concentrate more on building your own power and wealth.
My congratulations go to the Band of Brothers who hopefully showed these sympathetic weaklings some sense.
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful
I Luv Teh Parm!!1 - Imaran |
1naz
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 15:10:00 -
[87]
sweet 8)
|
Gnaeus Shalla
|
Posted - 2006.03.15 20:26:00 -
[88]
You're all a waste of carbon.
|
Sirrakhis
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.10.28 22:28:00 -
[89]
This still saddens me.
We wil have to make another "humanitarian" effort again soon. Your Friendly Neighborhood Whip-*****er
|
Rick Thwaites
The Carrion Expedition
|
Posted - 2006.10.29 00:30:00 -
[90]
The supplies to me look suspiciously like materials used for the building of a station, and supplies that the workers use. What I didn't understand was the Minmatar electronics? They have those?! I thought their flight systems were men with telescopes... -- Max sig dimensions are 400W x 120H - Cathath ([email protected])
Not the first time I have been told I am too big... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |