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Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
161
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Posted - 2013.11.25 20:02:00 -
[121] - Quote
ALL of you phucking EFT warriors need to turn it off and go into the game and play the GD game FFS.
What you will see is ALL of the Marauders rock now and are more than capable of doing ANY level 4 including the bonus room in Angel Ex. with ease.
Arguing over non consequential differences is silly...then again this is eve forums... Sorry carry on... |
Cranky Builder
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.27 02:35:00 -
[122] - Quote
I used the same playing style on a paladin. I feel your pain.
What a miserable piece of **** that is now.
Sniping gimps the turret damage by 300 dps and drones + smart bombs are useless.
Close range and you are anchored nicely near the warp in for the first pvper to come your way, plus tracking/range issues since you are no longer able to approach rats.
Or you could turn bastion off and just play like before without the awesome web or a proper drone bay.
I get that they don't balance ships around nullsec pve, but still, it's infuriating.
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Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
162
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Posted - 2013.11.27 19:34:00 -
[123] - Quote
Not sure if serious. |
Bastion Arzi
Dat Tax
51
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Posted - 2013.11.28 12:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
Not sure what the op is on about -I love the new varg, but then i never flew the old one.
Still there are a good few missions were the rats are around 70km out. I think intercept the sabatuers is one. I think there are some rats that are that distance away on stop the thief as well. Not to mention worlds collide im sure there are more but im doing this all from memory so forgive me if i'm wrong. Maybe the blockade? im sure some of the rats there spawn 70-80 km away.
so the njd bonus is not useless either
I dont have mjd trained yet so i couldn't jump in and test but i pissed off most of the room in intercept the sabatuers last night and was able to tank that easily. It was against guristas as well but guess what - they couldnt jam me.
Its also really nice seeing ~a third of your shield rep in a single cycle. (yes i don't have marauders maxed yet)
Bastion animation looks cool as well though i wish it had glowy bits like the golem.
tank, range, ewar immunity, mjd bonus = awesomesauce |
Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations CODE.
2012
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Posted - 2013.11.28 12:26:00 -
[125] - Quote
Cranky Builder wrote:Sniping gimps the turret damage by 300 dps and drones + smart bombs are useless. Scorch does 820 DPS @ 100km. Where is the problem with that?
Oh god. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
211
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:35:00 -
[126] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Still there are a good few missions were the rats are around 70km out. I think intercept the sabatuers is one. I think there are some rats that are that distance away on stop the thief as well. Not to mention worlds collide im sure there are more but im doing this all from memory so forgive me if i'm wrong. Maybe the blockade? im sure some of the rats there spawn 70-80 km away. EDIT: oh yeah final rooms of dread pirate scarlet and angels extra as well.
so the mjd bonus is not useless either
The only mission it is kind of ok is massive attack since you get in 2 pockets a big spawn at 100km, and you have to bounce back to the gate in the 3. pocket(the Kronos was such a good ship for that before the nerf, because it could throw out good dps at 100km with rails and sentry's), for the others a MWD will be a lot better(especially blockade, where you want to bounce 20-30km a lot between the spawns to deal high dps all the time).
Riot Girl wrote:Cranky Builder wrote:Sniping gimps the turret damage by 300 dps and drones + smart bombs are useless. Scorch does 820 DPS @ 100km. Where is the problem with that?
A proper flown paladin could apply nearly twice of this at close with the 90% web. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Cranky Builder
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.11.30 21:06:00 -
[127] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Cranky Builder wrote:Sniping gimps the turret damage by 300 dps and drones + smart bombs are useless. Scorch does 820 DPS @ 100km. Where is the problem with that?
It's not enough. It does not produce the 30m+ bounties that I got before Rubicon. It sounds like a lot, but it isnt. |
Bastion Arzi
Dat Tax
51
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Posted - 2013.12.02 09:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
The Djego wrote: The only mission it is kind of ok is massive attack since you get in 2 pockets a big spawn at 100km, and you have to bounce back to the gate in the 3. pocket(the Kronos was such a good ship for that before the nerf, because it could throw out good dps at 100km with rails and sentry's), for the others a MWD will be a lot better(especially blockade, where you want to bounce 20-30km a lot between the spawns to deal high dps all the time).
Why is that the only mission where its kind of ok? I have listed several missions where the rats are 70km out, and there are more i just cant remember them right now. MJD'ing to them will put you 30km off.... |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
79
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Posted - 2013.12.02 11:09:00 -
[129] - Quote
arguing over prop mod is kinda silly with the mobile depo now. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
211
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Posted - 2013.12.02 18:55:00 -
[130] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:The Djego wrote: The only mission it is kind of ok is massive attack since you get in 2 pockets a big spawn at 100km, and you have to bounce back to the gate in the 3. pocket(the Kronos was such a good ship for that before the nerf, because it could throw out good dps at 100km with rails and sentry's), for the others a MWD will be a lot better(especially blockade, where you want to bounce 20-30km a lot between the spawns to deal high dps all the time).
Why is that the only mission where its kind of ok? I have listed several missions where the rats are 70km out, and there are more i just cant remember them right now. MJD'ing to them will put you 30km off....
Intercept the Saboteurs got tons of frigs and it would take forever to kill them all with light drones if you mjd right in, so you want to move 10km form the warpin towards right spawn, and move the hull a 2. time around 20km(you agro the last spawn while being on the last 5-6 hulls of the rest). For Blockade you would pull the spawns away from the centre(the gate) while you actually want them moving towards the gate to have everything at a good range. WC got the gate around 20km off if you use the hacker key, with a long range setup(that can do good damage at 100km) you can burn halve way to the spawn behind the gate and pull back to the gate during the last 1-2 BS and the mwd it very useful for repositioning in stage 2 and 3 while the mjd doesn't help here. In pirate scarlet, while mjd would be a bit quicker in the last pocket you can kill stuff on the way towards there and the mwd saves a lot of time clearing out the first 3 pockets and reaching the gate(I'm need around 20 minutes with 2 mwd fitted BS for that mission and can't imagine a mjd would speed this up). Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Bastion Arzi
Dat Tax
52
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:15:00 -
[131] - Quote
intercept the sabatuers has 8 frigates, none of which are elites and your drones should make mincemeat out of them
the blockade i cant really say as i havent had that mission in ages
theres also pirate invasion,
stop the thief,
silence the informant,
the assault,
gone beserk,
infiltrated outposts,
massive attack,
mordus headhunters <---- this has a lot of frigs maybe u meant this
the list goes on. there are a lot of missions where the enemies (or at least some of the enemies) are 70 - 100+ km away.
If they are 70 km away and you jump to 100 you could probably take out 2 or 3 frigs from 30 km before they get under your guns. Your drones can mop up the rest.
(i wouldnt do this vs a group with elite frigs though)
The mjd bonus is underated.
edit: also for missions with frigs just load some barrage kill the frigs and then jump into all the cruisers/bc/bs Frigs dont get big resistances.... |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1550
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 20:24:00 -
[132] - Quote
Posting in an Eve Online "first world problem" thread... T2 Battleship complaints. Wow. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
36
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Posted - 2013.12.03 06:35:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Posting in an Eve Online "first world problem" thread... T2 Battleship complaints. Wow.
should hear my friend complain that his pvp vindicator doesnt have enough PG to strap a 3rd x-type LAR on it.... |
Joan Greywind
No Swag Initiative
199
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Posted - 2013.12.03 08:30:00 -
[134] - Quote
now i heard it all, this is just whining for the sake of whining now, when is the dislike button going to be implemented CCp??? |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
79
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Posted - 2013.12.03 08:56:00 -
[135] - Quote
let me say this again: you have more mid slots available, and the pg to use them, than god. why the hell are you NOT running a mwd AND a mjd AT THE SAME TIME YOU WANKSTAIN RETARDS. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
476
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Posted - 2013.12.03 10:21:00 -
[136] - Quote
2c
Considering that Vargur never needed extra tank for l4 work was all about being fast enough to offset fighting in deep falloff
So nerfing its falloff via TE nerf than make it static or force it to jumps in 100km intervals while taking away some drone dps + gaining barely worth of mention range ONLY in bastion mode is straight out nerf to the hull
Lets not forget speed nerf as well.
Vargur have lowest dps in any configuration
Vargur have worst range in any configuration
Vargur with long range weapons is not an option
Vargur dont shoot scorch it dont shoot missiles and it cant pair with rails in any scenario
Due to this Vargur pilots need to be in a good spot compared to red dots in ANY given time bastion is certainly NOT optimal way of doing it so......
it certainly didn't got buffed with changes.lets face it if you want sick tank dps and sick range vargur will not cross your mind first or second nor third. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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RanmaruMori
FIRST SHOCK SQUADRON Darkness of Despair
0
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Posted - 2013.12.03 10:54:00 -
[137] - Quote
Vargur isn't ok case some ships overpowered a bit.
Paladin looking better than other marauders. It have more dps and better range. Golem have 2 disadvantages - if NPC with defenders, so -25% for damage; and missiles don't deal instant damage. Kronos have lower range and dps from rails or blasters.
Machariel better in more situations than Vargur.
Vargur only good at tanking with shield. TE nerf didn't effect Vargur, case you still need low slots for damage mod. Replace tracking with 25% damage can change something, may be reduce drone bandwidth to 25.
P.S. sorry for my English, if i did some mistakes. |
Bastion Arzi
Dat Tax
53
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Posted - 2013.12.03 12:02:00 -
[138] - Quote
You dont need to move much in the new vargur. I think the varg gets ~1100 paper dps with hail. And it can tank ~3x the damage the machariel can.
The mach gets ~1250 - 1300 paper dps
Anyway with the vargur you can jump or mwd into the rats, facetank them and blap them in low falloff bringing you much closer to that paper dps.
If your sniping with the mach you are shooting deep in falloff and you have or you fly towards them reducing ur range and increasing your dps but isnt that the same thing as jumping into or at least nearer to the blob of rats in the varg?
Sure once u get up close the mach will do way more damage than the varg no contest there, but its a pirate bs its meant to have more damage.
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Sh0plifter
Underworld Initiative
23
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Posted - 2013.12.03 12:26:00 -
[139] - Quote
You have a bastion mode marauder and you are needing to get into range? Use ******* arties. Get T1 ammo with different ranges. PWN **** and GTFO. Given the Large AC/Blaster/Torp ranges basic ranges. Why are you using a miniature dreadnaught with a range dependant weapon on a moving target? I sit still for 2 minutes and faceroll over everything. I use the MJD to get range, Let the frigs/destroyers come to me, roflstomp them, Roflstomp the cruisers/bcs, and then wail on the BS depending on their range and how fast they move. Long range weapons you can dictate your optimal with base weapons stats, ammo and the moving targets basic range. Use their movement to your advantage with bastion. |
Seriously Bored
The Strontium Asylum
16
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Posted - 2013.12.03 14:09:00 -
[140] - Quote
Sh0plifter wrote:You have a bastion mode marauder and you are needing to get into range? Use ******* arties. Get T1 ammo with different ranges. PWN **** and GTFO.
Not to be abrasive, but you're just wasting a whole lot of ship like that. You don't need Bastion for the tank at artillery range, you're too far to loot and salvage at the same time, and artillery + MJD underperforms against AC + MWD when you look at mission run time and isk/hr.
There are some good arguments both for and against bastion mode. I haven't seen any good arguments for Arties on a Marauder. |
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
36
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Posted - 2013.12.03 15:02:00 -
[141] - Quote
Seriously Bored wrote:Sh0plifter wrote:You have a bastion mode marauder and you are needing to get into range? Use ******* arties. Get T1 ammo with different ranges. PWN **** and GTFO. Not to be abrasive, but you're just wasting a whole lot of ship like that. You don't need Bastion for the tank at artillery range, you're too far to loot and salvage at the same time, and artillery + MJD underperforms against AC + MWD when you look at mission run time and isk/hr. There are some good arguments both for and against bastion mode. I haven't seen any good arguments for Arties on a Marauder.
Rubicon brought these nifty little modules called "Mobile Tractor Units" with ranges of 100km+. And as a AC boat you're always fighting in falloff. Thats the problem with ACs, no matter what boat you choose. Also MJD increases optimal and falloff, as well as boosting tank so you can drop a mod for another TC/TE. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
222
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:50:00 -
[142] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Rubicon brought these nifty little modules called "Mobile Tractor Units" with ranges of 100km+. And as a AC boat you're always fighting in falloff. Thats the problem with ACs, no matter what boat you choose. Also MJD increases optimal and falloff, as well as boosting tank so you can drop a mod for another TC/TE.
- You can only reasonably use one mobile tractor at once, which is a really slow way to do it (especially at range). If you're leaving them behind to return and clean up later that's fine, but for loot/salvage as you go, 3 tractors and a flight of salvage drones is going to keep up much better.
- Yes, ACs are always fighting in falloff. But with ridiculous 70km+ falloffs, if you pick the right spot to set up you're still going to be applying at least as much DPS on average as best-case-scenario arties.
- Even with a relatively tanky close range Bastion fit, you're already stacking so many range modules that the Bastion bonus is tiny and any more modules aren't going to help significantly.
There's certainly nothing wrong with using an arty Vargur if that's your thing. It'll work just fine. But ACs still feel like the stronger option to me. (I reserve the right to change my mind on a mission-by-mission basis, but haven't yet found one where I felt arties would work better.) |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
620
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Posted - 2013.12.04 00:54:00 -
[143] - Quote
Ghost Phius wrote:ALL of you phucking EFT warriors need to turn it off and go into the game and play the GD game FFS. What you will see is ALL of the Marauders rock now and are more than capable of doing ANY level 4 including the bonus room in Angel Ex. with ease. Arguing over non consequential differences is silly...then again this is eve forums... Sorry carry on...
Issue there being with the changes to interceptors, you are suicidal to use a Marauder in null, there is no way for you to dodge the new ceptors.
Short of dropping an mobile and hoping that you can fit enough stabs to escape before it gets RF'd to save you. |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
36
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Posted - 2013.12.04 01:26:00 -
[144] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Rubicon brought these nifty little modules called "Mobile Tractor Units" with ranges of 100km+. And as a AC boat you're always fighting in falloff. Thats the problem with ACs, no matter what boat you choose. Also MJD increases optimal and falloff, as well as boosting tank so you can drop a mod for another TC/TE. - You can only reasonably use one mobile tractor at once, which is a really slow way to do it (especially at range). If you're leaving them behind to return and clean up later that's fine, but for loot/salvage as you go, 3 tractors and a flight of salvage drones is going to keep up much better.
- Yes, ACs are always fighting in falloff. But with ridiculous 70km+ falloffs, if you pick the right spot to set up you're still going to be applying at least as much DPS on average as best-case-scenario arties.
- Even with a relatively tanky close range Bastion fit, you're already stacking so many range modules that the Bastion bonus is tiny and any more modules aren't going to help significantly.
There's certainly nothing wrong with using an arty Vargur if that's your thing. It'll work just fine. But ACs still feel like the stronger option to me. (I reserve the right to change my mind on a mission-by-mission basis, but haven't yet found one where I felt arties would work better.)
No argument about only one being usable at a time. But if you're using arties and not using one, you can't really complain. If you're using autos, then yeah, 3 tractors and a flight of salvages works wonders. Due to a series of unfortunate events I have been unable to test my vargur with t2 autos yet, so I can't really say much about that. The reason I used arties to begin with was ammo usage and alpha. Post in the Ideas forum to make the Bastion Module either be first in priority on stacking penalties, or to make the gun bonuses unstacked. I use arties with range in nullsec to save on cap and ammo. Waiting on RF to ship me my 800s so I can give them a go. |
Seriously Bored
The Strontium Asylum
16
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Posted - 2013.12.04 05:07:00 -
[145] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Post in the Ideas forum to make the Bastion Module either be first in priority on stacking penalties, or to make the gun bonuses unstacked. Making the bonuses first in priority would actually reduce your range compared to now, if you use even one Tracking Computer... but I really like the idea of having the bastion module range bonuses being unpenalized. |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
37
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Posted - 2013.12.04 06:00:00 -
[146] - Quote
Seriously Bored wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:
Post in the Ideas forum to make the Bastion Module either be first in priority on stacking penalties, or to make the gun bonuses unstacked. Making the bonuses first in priority would actually reduce your range compared to now, if you use even one Tracking Computer... but I really like the idea of having the bastion module range bonuses being unpenalized.
go for it, and send me the link. At the very least, maybe we can test it out on SISI or something. |
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2013.12.04 18:15:00 -
[147] - Quote
i dont know why all the crying . i use ac vargur the other day it does angel blockade in under 20mins which is the same time as golem except you dont need to count volley . i did not even move just warp , bastion up and shoot. |
Julie Thorne
14th Legion Eternal Evocations
10
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Posted - 2013.12.04 19:09:00 -
[148] - Quote
Mer88 wrote:i dont know why all the crying . i use ac vargur the other day it does angel blockade in under 20mins which is the same time as golem except you dont need to count volley . i did not even move just warp , bastion up and shoot.
For your reference a good time for Angel Blockade is around 12 minutes (first shot to last shot, everything killed). You managed to prove that an immobile Vargur is an inefficient Vargur. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
168
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Posted - 2013.12.05 15:40:00 -
[149] - Quote
A ton of asstalking and just straight up bullshit in this thread for sure. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
223
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Posted - 2013.12.05 16:09:00 -
[150] - Quote
Ghost Phius wrote:A ton of asstalking and just straight up bullshit in this thread for sure. Thank you for your contribution. |
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