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Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a new player (of about a month) and while I realize it will likely make no difference, perhaps someone will see this and it will save them from a bad experience:
The corporation Freedom Unchained ran the classic and thorough recruitment scam on my brother and me tonight - courier contract scam, then blew up the ships we were in (after we paid a ransom for them to not destroy our ships), which were the only ones they didn't steal. I admit, we were naive.
I fully realize the mistakes that were made leading up to the culmination of this scam. Research afterwards has shown that this scam was not unique and has already been described in sufficient detail in other posts. FloppieTheBanjoClown, who has admitted on this forum to running scams, was one of the main orchestrators of this.
I believe Freedom Unchained to be a corporation which exists for the sole purpose of running this scam.
It bothers me that some people see themselves as decent people in their daily lives, but become career criminal sociopaths as soon as they turn on their computer. If nothing else, scams like this are destructive because they degrade people's ability to trust others, if only on a subconscious level, both in game and out.
I release snarky comments are likely, but rational discussion would be better. |
Chi Garu
Dos Dedos Inc
9
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
The main thing here is that @1 month old you had nothing of value to lose. Inexpensive lesson best lesson. |
Mortis Betruger
Flying With Animals Mayhem and Destruction
15
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Posted - 2013.11.20 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dude hang in there in 3-4 years you will tell this story and laugh at what a noob you where. |
Haedonism Bot
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
475
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Posted - 2013.11.20 14:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote: It bothers me that some people see themselves as decent people in their daily lives, but become career criminal sociopaths as soon as they turn on their computer. If nothing else, scams like this are destructive because they degrade people's ability to trust others, if only on a subconscious level, both in game and out.
I release snarky comments are likely, but rational discussion would be better.
Rational discussion: Scamming, stealing, murdering spaceships, etc are all central themes of EVE online. The game is named "Everybody versus Everybody", for fucks sake. Doing these things to people is no more wrong than, for example, winning at poker by bluffing. It is part of the game. Since all of our in-game assets are imaginary, no harm comes from doing these things, and no real world judgements can fairly be made about the perpetrators.
everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
310
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:I'm a new player (of about a month) they degrade people's ability to trust others, if only on a subconscious level, both in game and out.
I release snarky comments are likely, but rational discussion would be better.
The value of trust in themepark games is very low. usually the mechanics make it impossible or at least stupid to attack your own side. Trust is therefore assumed and is meaningless. In EVE trust is earned. Being cautious and wise with your trust is a large part of what makes eve compelling. The reason null sec and low sec revolves around corps is it allows the fostering of sufficeint trust to have a meaningful impact in these zones. Blindly trusting everyone is eve is foolish but it is pretty foolish IRL too. Trusting no one is the path to a lonely and unfufilling game in eve and so too in life. Betraying trust can have huge consequences in eve and so too in life. Winning in a game at the expense of others is the nature and purpose of competitive games. Winning in life at the expense of others is morally reprehensible and is the reason people dislike politicians, bankers, stock brokers and lawyers amongst others. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
22
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Posted - 2013.11.20 20:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Congratulations on learning a valuable lesson and (presumably) losing very little.
Most people aren't as lucky.
All good fun though, and I'm sure you'll chuckle about this in years to come if you decide to stay. |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 09:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the (mostly) encouraging replies.
Unfortunately we had a little bit more to lose than a typical 1 month player because it was not only my assets but also all of my brother's as well, which was considerably more than mine.
I realize it may seem that I am criticizing one of EVE's most central attributes - its extreme freedom in comparison to most other games. I don't think I am though. My brother and I were both very experienced at another "sandbox" game, Ultima Online (though it has become much less of a sandbox in its later years, it started as one of the first of them), and because of that I think I have some perspective on the concept.
I have no problem with the kinds of risks that players may choose to assume in normal game-play. I was even ganked earlier that day while messing around at a low-sec data site, which I had no ethics based objections to.
Perhaps it is because I was there to experience the sickening level of deception that took place, but I believe what happened to us went beyond what someone should be able to do to another player, even in a sandbox - we both literally lost everything. Even with my lack of experience I contest the idea that scamming is a central tenant of EVE (perhaps it is in practice but it should not be). I also contest the idea that because something is digital it is therefore "imaginary" - check the (digital) balance of your bank account and tell yourself that's only imaginary. I realize that is an extreme example (though maybe not so extreme), but it is valid nonetheless and therefore I maintain that there is some real level of harm done by such activity.
Thanks again, your comments on the whole were much more constructive that what I was expecting. |
Don Purple
Snuggle Factory
118
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Posted - 2013.11.21 09:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dear OP,
Instead of being appalled at this act against you and your brother, why not learn from it. Do not pout, instead adapt, grow, and replace your losses through the knowledge you have gained. Someone was nice enough to show you how to make money and kill stuff at the same time. Take what you have learned and use it.
Don. |
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
18
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dear Elencia,
Welcome to Psychopaths Online. The game where being an ******* is a way of life :(
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
927
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Posted - 2013.11.21 12:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:
I have no problem with the kinds of risks that players may choose to assume in normal game-play..
Did you and your 'more experienced' brother choose to give all your assets to a complete stranger in the form of a courier contract, without asking for the appropriate collateral????
EDIT: But seriously, this is what Eve is all about. Your more experienced brother should have known this. Suck it up, learn your lesson, and enjoy the next chapter of your Eve journey. (Make your money back then extract revenge)
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
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Alduin666 Shikkoken
Time and all Eternity HumAnnoyeD
164
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Posted - 2013.11.21 13:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
One of your freedom unchained corpmates outright told his plan openly on his twitch.tv stream (I'm not going to say who). When (s)he can get away with that maybe you need to look into better security because I knew this was going to happen long ago.
Also don't be the typical 'I'm new and these thiefs are psychopaths" poster. Read up about a game before you play it (especially in a subscription game), that way you know what you are getting into. It is so unbearable to see how these new players keep coming in and saying that this game goes to far when, in all reality, they should have known about it before they joined up. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:Dear OP,
Instead of being appalled at this act against you and your brother, why not learn from it. Do not pout, instead adapt, grow, and replace your losses through the knowledge you have gained. Someone was nice enough to show you how to make money and kill stuff at the same time. Take what you have learned and use it.
Don.
The scammers themselves made a similar offer to me - to teach me how to run their scam (though it was already obvious how it was done). However, if it wasn't already obvious, I have no desire whatsoever to lower myself to their level. It should have been clear from the start that I strongly believe such behavior to be unethical. |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:One of your freedom unchained corpmates outright told his plan openly on his twitch.tv stream (I'm not going to say who). When (s)he can get away with that maybe you need to look into better security because I knew this was going to happen long ago.
Also don't be the typical 'I'm new and these thiefs are psychopaths" poster. Read up about a game before you play it (especially in a subscription game), that way you know what you are getting into. It is so unbearable to see how these new players keep coming in and saying that this game goes to far when, in all reality, they should have known about it before they joined up.
It is ridiculous to expect me to have been aware of all of this. At this point I've read several pages on different scams and odds are I still don't know about half of them.
More importantly, I stated what my intention for the post was - to get it in print that Freedom Unchained is running that scam. Anything beyond that was just my opinion on the situation/people. |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Time and all Eternity HumAnnoyeD
164
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:One of your freedom unchained corpmates outright told his plan openly on his twitch.tv stream (I'm not going to say who). When (s)he can get away with that maybe you need to look into better security because I knew this was going to happen long ago.
Also don't be the typical 'I'm new and these thiefs are psychopaths" poster. Read up about a game before you play it (especially in a subscription game), that way you know what you are getting into. It is so unbearable to see how these new players keep coming in and saying that this game goes to far when, in all reality, they should have known about it before they joined up. It is ridiculous to expect me to have been aware of all of this. At this point I've read several pages on different scams and odds are I still don't know about half of them. More importantly, I stated what my intention for the post was - to get it in print that Freedom Unchained is running that scam. Anything beyond that was just my opinion on the situation/people.
You claim to have been playing for a month and you've only read several pages, that explains a lot. Congratulations, you successfully put it in print that some guy was running a scam. You aren't the first, and you wont be the last. Less than 1% of the eve playerbase will read this thread, and most of the people that will are either scammers themselves (as this is the scammer/awoxer/yarr/theft subforum).
As for opinions, I believe the Eve Online developers put it best, HTFU or GTFO. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:
I have no problem with the kinds of risks that players may choose to assume in normal game-play..
Did you and your 'more experienced' brother choose to give all your assets to a complete stranger in the form of a courier contract, without asking for the appropriate collateral???? EDIT: But seriously, this is what Eve is all about. Your more experienced brother should have known this. Suck it up, learn your lesson, and enjoy the next chapter of your Eve journey. (Make your money back then extract revenge)
At the time I didn't understand what was going on. I agree my brother should have known what was going on, but for whatever reason he unfortunately did not. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
590
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:
the sickening level of deception
I read that as "the sickening level of stupidity" from you. And I'll share a secret with ya...even those digital numbers in your bank account are fake and can be disappeared. Wanna try it? Stop paying a bill and watch the creditor make your digital numbers magically go away with absolutely no approval from you. |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 15:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:One of your freedom unchained corpmates outright told his plan openly on his twitch.tv stream (I'm not going to say who). When (s)he can get away with that maybe you need to look into better security because I knew this was going to happen long ago.
Also don't be the typical 'I'm new and these thiefs are psychopaths" poster. Read up about a game before you play it (especially in a subscription game), that way you know what you are getting into. It is so unbearable to see how these new players keep coming in and saying that this game goes to far when, in all reality, they should have known about it before they joined up. It is ridiculous to expect me to have been aware of all of this. At this point I've read several pages on different scams and odds are I still don't know about half of them. More importantly, I stated what my intention for the post was - to get it in print that Freedom Unchained is running that scam. Anything beyond that was just my opinion on the situation/people. You claim to have been playing for a month and you've only red several pages, that explains a lot. Congratulations, you successfully put it in print that some guy was running a scam. You aren't the first, and you wont be the last. Less that 1% of the eve playerbase wont read this thread, and most of the people that will are either scammers themselves (as this is the scammer/awoxer/yarr/theft subforum). As for opinions, I believe the Eve Online developers put it best, HTFU or GTFO.
I didn't say I had only read several pages. What I said was that I read several pages specifically on scams. Do you understand the important differentiation between those two things? Also, if "less than 1% of the player base won't read this thread", that means that more than 99% of EVE players will read this thread. I doubt that, but if you insist my writings are that popular... ; ) |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Time and all Eternity HumAnnoyeD
164
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 15:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:One of your freedom unchained corpmates outright told his plan openly on his twitch.tv stream (I'm not going to say who). When (s)he can get away with that maybe you need to look into better security because I knew this was going to happen long ago.
Also don't be the typical 'I'm new and these thiefs are psychopaths" poster. Read up about a game before you play it (especially in a subscription game), that way you know what you are getting into. It is so unbearable to see how these new players keep coming in and saying that this game goes to far when, in all reality, they should have known about it before they joined up. It is ridiculous to expect me to have been aware of all of this. At this point I've read several pages on different scams and odds are I still don't know about half of them. More importantly, I stated what my intention for the post was - to get it in print that Freedom Unchained is running that scam. Anything beyond that was just my opinion on the situation/people. You claim to have been playing for a month and you've only rad several pages, that explains a lot. Congratulations, you successfully put it in print that some guy was running a scam. You aren't the first, and you wont be the last. Less that 1% of the eve playerbase will read this thread, and most of the people that will are either scammers themselves (as this is the scammer/awoxer/yarr/theft subforum). As for opinions, I believe the Eve Online developers put it best, HTFU or GTFO. I didn't say I had only read several pages. What I said was that I read several pages specifically on scams. Do you understand the important differentiation between those two things? Also, if "less than 1% of the player base will read this thread", that means that less than 1% of EVE players will read this thread. I doubt that, but if you insist my writings are that popular... ; )
FTFY
Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 15:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:
the sickening level of deception
I read that as "the sickening level of stupidity" from you. And I'll share a secret with ya...even those digital numbers in your bank account are fake and can be disappeared. Wanna try it? Stop paying a bill and watch the creditor make your digital numbers magically go away with absolutely no approval from you.
Thanks for the heads up. Does that mean if my car can be taken (just like the cash from my bank account) that it is fake too?
Is it so surprising that someone in my position would be ignorant of the intricacies of the situation I was unexpected placed in? Perhaps I am going too easy on myself in that regard, but doesn't seem like something I should be embarrassed to say I didn't know about. |
Elencia Vaasa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 15:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:One of your freedom unchained corpmates outright told his plan openly on his twitch.tv stream (I'm not going to say who). When (s)he can get away with that maybe you need to look into better security because I knew this was going to happen long ago.
Also don't be the typical 'I'm new and these thiefs are psychopaths" poster. Read up about a game before you play it (especially in a subscription game), that way you know what you are getting into. It is so unbearable to see how these new players keep coming in and saying that this game goes to far when, in all reality, they should have known about it before they joined up. It is ridiculous to expect me to have been aware of all of this. At this point I've read several pages on different scams and odds are I still don't know about half of them. More importantly, I stated what my intention for the post was - to get it in print that Freedom Unchained is running that scam. Anything beyond that was just my opinion on the situation/people. You claim to have been playing for a month and you've only rad several pages, that explains a lot. Congratulations, you successfully put it in print that some guy was running a scam. You aren't the first, and you wont be the last. Less that 1% of the eve playerbase will read this thread, and most of the people that will are either scammers themselves (as this is the scammer/awoxer/yarr/theft subforum). As for opinions, I believe the Eve Online developers put it best, HTFU or GTFO. I didn't say I had only read several pages. What I said was that I read several pages specifically on scams. Do you understand the important differentiation between those two things? Also, if "less than 1% of the player base will read this thread", that means that less than 1% of EVE players will read this thread. I doubt that, but if you insist my writings are that popular... ; ) FTFY
It was fun while it lasted, but it seems you misquoted me...
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Alduin666 Shikkoken
Time and all Eternity HumAnnoyeD
164
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:
It was fun while it lasted,.
Wasn't fun for me. I had to listen to another carebare white knight thinking that if you don't have a high amount of E-honor then you're a psychopath . Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! |
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
18
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:
It was fun while it lasted,.
Wasn't fun for me. I had to listen to another carebare white knight thinking that if you don't have a high amount of E-honor then you're a psychopath .
Luckily for you that everyone in Eve is a Psychopath :)
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
591
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Posted - 2013.11.21 18:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Elencia Vaasa wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Elencia Vaasa wrote:
the sickening level of deception
I read that as "the sickening level of stupidity" from you. And I'll share a secret with ya...even those digital numbers in your bank account are fake and can be disappeared. Wanna try it? Stop paying a bill and watch the creditor make your digital numbers magically go away with absolutely no approval from you. Thanks for the heads up. Does that mean if my car can be taken (just as the cash from my bank account can be taken) that it is fake too?
No, your ownership of the car is fake. The bank owns it. Just like Floppy owns your EvE stuff now.
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Thern alpha
Unlawful Unit Initiative Mercenaries
17
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Posted - 2013.11.22 11:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
As someone who does scam when im bored and looking for a lol and tear mail, I would say be glad that since u have been scammed, you got scammed when you where young and new at the game. Its always more embarrassing when an older player gets scammed, and podded due to their lack of commonsense. |
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