Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Magie Elster
The Ubaz Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Couple of questions here: 1) Is there any way to determine what is total amount of raw ISK in EVE economy? By raw isk I mean amount you have in your wallets including your corporarions/aliances. 2) Is it going up or down, how fast? 3) What are factors that affect that? Obviously ISK is generated by player <-> NPC interactions but what are main sources of ISK to come in and out? |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
54
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I can't fidn it at the moment, but a dev has posted the number recently. |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
1) Far too much. |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't know how much ISK is in EVE or even how useful that info would be to us, but I do know that it's increasing and that most of the ISK generated is from missions and is the largest isk sink is PLEX. |
Black Dranzer
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ask CCP. They'd have accurate counters and they'd be the only one who really know. |
Abrazzar
273
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much. That comes close, probably even more. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Magie Elster
The Ubaz Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ann133566 wrote:I don't know how much ISK is in EVE or even how useful that info would be to us, but I do know that it's increasing and that most of the ISK generated is from missions and is the largest isk sink is PLEX. How is plex isk sink? ISK from plex transfers is transfered between players and therefore stays in. |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
54
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Here it is ....
CCP Spitfire wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I think these numbers may have been in the quarterly numbers, but not sure. I am curious how much ISK is lying around in all the wallets in the game, including the corporate wallets. No way to calculate all the hard assets, but ISK should be something that CCP has a handle on,
There is no real reason to know, but I am indeed curious. According to the QEN for Q4 2010, there was 445 trillion ISK in all accounts in EVE. Now this information is obviously a bit outdated, but I'll see if I can find some more recent data for you.
from: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=233608#post233608 |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much.
The stock of nominal money in an economy is pretty much irrelevant. It's the flow that has real consequenses. |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
222
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
"A LOT" |
|
Magie Elster
The Ubaz Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 14:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Naran Eto wrote:Here it is .... CCP Spitfire wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I think these numbers may have been in the quarterly numbers, but not sure. I am curious how much ISK is lying around in all the wallets in the game, including the corporate wallets. No way to calculate all the hard assets, but ISK should be something that CCP has a handle on,
There is no real reason to know, but I am indeed curious. According to the QEN for Q4 2010, there was 445 trillion ISK in all accounts in EVE. Now this information is obviously a bit outdated, but I'll see if I can find some more recent data for you. from: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=233608#post233608 Thanks, reading it now (even it is little old). |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much. The stock of nominal money in an economy is pretty much irrelevant. It's the flow that has real consequenses.
This is not a 'real' economy. It wasn't too long ago that EvE advertised a special deal on PLEX. With a couple of hundred dollars it was a simple process to suddenly inflate a wallet by 5,000,000,000 ISK; without generating it via the EvE economy. When the wealth is created without flowing through the economy.....it has real consequences.
There is far too much liquidity sitting in corp and individual wallets. It tends to produce boredom. Of course, it can also tend to produce creative ways of burning off some of the liquidity....[ref: suicide ganks].
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
149
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
42. Exactly 42 ISK. Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
56
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:42. Exactly 42 ISK.
You win.
(Is your character related to Dirk Gently, by any chance? ;) ) |
Magie Elster
The Ubaz Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Just finisher reading that QEN Q4 2010. Nice reading and interesting stuff in there. I wonder if there are plans to have similar amount of information for 2011? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1173
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:This is not a 'real' economy. It wasn't too long ago that EvE advertised a special deal on PLEX. With a couple of hundred dollars it was a simple process to suddenly inflate a wallet by 5,000,000,000 ISK; without generating it via the EvE economy. No, no, noGǪ
Those ISK are still being generated via the EVE economy. Using PLEX does not make the spawn out of nowhere, and their presence does not affect the GÇ£realnessGÇ¥ of the economy.
Quote:When the wealth is created without flowing through the economy.....it has real consequences. And as it happens, PLEX does not do that. In fact, they do the exact opposite: they generate the flow without creating any wealth. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tainted Karma
Immortalis Mortis Angelus Mayhem.
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much. The stock of nominal money in an economy is pretty much irrelevant. It's the flow that has real consequenses. This is not a 'real' economy. It wasn't too long ago that EvE advertised a special deal on PLEX. With a couple of hundred dollars it was a simple process to suddenly inflate a wallet by 5,000,000,000 ISK; without generating it via the EvE economy. When the wealth is created without flowing through the economy.....it has real consequences. There is far too much liquidity sitting in corp and individual wallets. It tends to produce boredom. Of course, it can also tend to produce creative ways of burning off some of the liquidity....[ref: suicide ganks].
This isn't true at all. PLEX is no different than a ship or an other item in the game. It's merely a destructible item that some people deem have value. An introduction of a PLEX into the market is no different than getting a nice drop off a mission. |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
56
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much. The stock of nominal money in an economy is pretty much irrelevant. It's the flow that has real consequenses. This is not a 'real' economy. It wasn't too long ago that EvE advertised a special deal on PLEX. With a couple of hundred dollars it was a simple process to suddenly inflate a wallet by 5,000,000,000 ISK; without generating it via the EvE economy. When the wealth is created without flowing through the economy.....it has real consequences. There is far too much liquidity sitting in corp and individual wallets. It tends to produce boredom. Of course, it can also tend to produce creative ways of burning off some of the liquidity....[ref: suicide ganks].
To boil it down to a simpler form:
MMORPGs operate on a 'closed economy' -- nothing is imported or exported from a game's economy. Accordingly, all of the money currently in the game stays there, unless something is done to remove it.
The danger comes from what's called 'paper inflation': as the total amount of currency increases over time, the purchasing power of each individual unit is proportionately reduced, until the currency eventually becomes worthless. That's why a government can't simply 'print more money' in an economic meltdown -- it would only increase the severity of the problem.
There's an interesting research paper, at http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html , that examines the benefits and ddrawbacks inherent to the economic model that most MMOGs use.
:Edit: Sorry about that, the link broke because of errant punctuation. It should be fixed now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1173
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Astrid Stjerna wrote:MMORPGs operate on a 'closed economy' -- nothing is imported or exported from a game's economy. Accordingly, all of the money currently in the game stays there, unless something is done to remove it. GǪwhich CCP has solved by making EVE an open economy by having a number of item and currency faucets and sinks to ensure that stuff and money constantly gets both added and removed from the game. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Kietay Ayari
Monopoly Money Operations
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Every time there is a topic that has any mention of Plex in it, someone always does not understand how it works economically :| Ferox #1 |
|
AzureStorms
Warden Sphere Inc. GIANTSBANE.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much. The stock of nominal money in an economy is pretty much irrelevant. It's the flow that has real consequenses. This is not a 'real' economy. It wasn't too long ago that EvE advertised a special deal on PLEX. With a couple of hundred dollars it was a simple process to suddenly inflate a wallet by 5,000,000,000 ISK; without generating it via the EvE economy. When the wealth is created without flowing through the economy.....it has real consequences. There is far too much liquidity sitting in corp and individual wallets. It tends to produce boredom. Of course, it can also tend to produce creative ways of burning off some of the liquidity....[ref: suicide ganks].
Unless I am mistaken, getting a plex then selling it on the market doesn't create isk at all. You are getting isk from another players wallet not generating it out of nowhere.
EDIT : PAGE 2 SNIPER!...did I do it right? |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
56
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Astrid Stjerna wrote:MMORPGs operate on a 'closed economy' -- nothing is imported or exported from a game's economy. Accordingly, all of the money currently in the game stays there, unless something is done to remove it. GǪwhich CCP has solved by making EVE an open economy by having a number of item and currency faucets and sinks to ensure that stuff and money constantly gets both added and removed from the game.
With respect, that's not actually an 'open economy' -- EVE, despite its scale, does not have exterior trading partners (such as another galaxy) to which it can export or import goods into the local economy. As a result, the value of the ISK remains static -- there aren't any exchange rates to alter the value of the currency, so ISK remains at a 1:1 basis (one ISK goes into the economy, one ISK comes out of it).
The design of 'money sinks' ensures that ISK can be removed from the economy, but they're artificially implemented as an economic workaround. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1173
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Astrid Stjerna wrote:EVE, despite its scale, does not have exterior trading partners (such as another galaxy) to which it can export or import goods into the local economy. No, but it has faucets and sinks that perform the same function.
Quote:As a result, the value of the ISK remains static -- there aren't any exchange rates to alter the value of the currency, so ISK remains at a 1:1 basis (one ISK goes into the economy, one ISK comes out of it). No, the value is not static. In fact, it has gone through several cycles of inflation and deflation (and the question on everyone's mind is which one we're in at the moment GÇö different indicators are pointing in different directions).
The ISK has no value, except as defined by what you can buy for it. Most items don't have any value either, except as defined by how much ISK people want to trade them for. The only GÇ£trueGÇ¥ value of anything in EVE is how much minerals are worth if you build a ship out of them and then blow it up, but not even that is a static amount any more.
As the supply of ISK and items wax and wane, the value of both change. There is no fixed 1:1 flow in and out of the system of either ISK or items, but rather those faucets and sinks that get activated at various intervals, and as a result, the value of ISK (and items) is not static in the least. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Baillif
AQUILA INC
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
You hear a lot of whining about inflation this and inflation that, but in the 3 years I have been playing prices of most items I commonly buy and trade in have stayed remarkably stable. Sure there are seasonal highs and lows for every item, but there is no wild out of control inflation that you see in a ton of other MMOs.
People are screaming about inflation now because they are looking at one item (PLEX) that seems to be rising in price. Of course it's rising in price. PLEX has acquired a new usage with the introduction of the Nex store. It largely rose in price because it rose in usefulness outside of just paying for game time. It was also not all that long ago the PLEX were made movable and destroyable. On top of that, there is normally a rise in PLEX prices around this time of year. I suspect it is due to people spending more time inside and playing games as the weather turns cold. It leads to veterans coming back and plexing their accounts as they test new features.
I have a theory that the recent bouts of **** expansions play a role as well. The CCP failure to bring in lots of new blood (who are probably more likely to sell PLEX for ISK) resulted some PLEX scarcity as an ever increasing pool of aging veteran players who PLEX their accounts have to rely on a smaller number of PLEX sellers. I don't have numbers to back that theory up so it will have to remain just that, a theory.
There is also the possibility that there are a large number of players who are on PLEX waiting to see if CCP earns enough trust back before they resub.
TL;DR Stop crying about PLEX prices anyone with a brain saw this coming. Inflation really isn't the primary driver of PLEX prices atm.
PS: I still hope CCP decides to nerf the hell out of highsec incursions. You highsec incursion pussies don't deserve to make so much ISK. |
Carceret Rinah
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
If anyone is really concerned that there is too much ISK in the economy, there's a real simple solution that everyone with some spare cash can contribute to.
1- Make alt. 2- Buy PLEX from CCP. 3- Sell them on market, collect ISK. 4- Delete the alt (WITH THE ISK).
When you get your next paycheck, repeat all steps until either you are broke or the ISK supply is at the level you want. |
Digital Messiah
The Scope Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tainted Karma wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:1) Far too much. The stock of nominal money in an economy is pretty much irrelevant. It's the flow that has real consequenses. This is not a 'real' economy. It wasn't too long ago that EvE advertised a special deal on PLEX. With a couple of hundred dollars it was a simple process to suddenly inflate a wallet by 5,000,000,000 ISK; without generating it via the EvE economy. When the wealth is created without flowing through the economy.....it has real consequences. There is far too much liquidity sitting in corp and individual wallets. It tends to produce boredom. Of course, it can also tend to produce creative ways of burning off some of the liquidity....[ref: suicide ganks]. This isn't true at all. PLEX is no different than a ship or an other item in the game. It's merely a destructible item that some people deem have value. An introduction of a PLEX into the market is no different than getting a nice drop off a mission. True, a real isk sink is clone upgrades, ship repairs, lp store, npc corp tax, etc. Anything that takes isk away from the game and it simply never returns "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
72
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 17:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Carceret Rinah wrote:If anyone is really concerned that there is too much ISK in the economy, there's a real simple solution that everyone with some spare cash can contribute to.
1- Make alt. 2- Buy PLEX from CCP. 3- Sell them on market, collect ISK. 4- Delete the alt (WITH THE ISK).
When you get your next paycheck, repeat all steps until either you are broke or the ISK supply is at the level you want.
Better yet, everyone should send me 1 Billion ISK. I promise to place 90% of it with my alts and never, ever touch it. So effectively by doing this you will be helping to remove 90% of the isk from the economy, without having to touch real money at all. Deal? |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 17:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tainted Karma wrote: This isn't true at all. PLEX is no different than a ship or an other item in the game. It's merely a destructible item that some people deem have value. An introduction of a PLEX into the market is no different than getting a nice drop off a mission.
Nonsense. No manufacturing, mining, missioning, research, ratting, etc., is involved in the creation of PLEX. They cannot be refined into their base elements.
PLEX wildly outnumber officer drops.
PLEX magically appear when GTC are converted; with significant value. Nothing in the EvE economy is needed for me to instantly become a billion ISK richer. Nothing. Sure, mission loot and salvage appears magically, but I still need to purchase a ship, fit it with modules, arm the weapons with ammo, etc....before I can reap those magic loots. In other words, I have to interact with the EvE economy in order to accumulate that type of ISK. More importantly, I need to spend the intangible cost of "time".
Not so with PLEX......the very moment I convert GTC to a couple of PLEX.......BAMM!!......there's nearly a billion ISK suddenly appearing in the economy.
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
72
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 17:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:
PLEX magically appear when GTC are converted; with significant value.
That said, there is absolutely nothing stopping from CCP from manipulating the price of PLEX because CCP has the magical ability to create probably ISK and PLEX, certainly modules and ships, out of thin air. So if they want less PLEX on the market they can just make the ISK to buy up a certain amount of PLEX. Conversely if they want more PLEX on the market they can probably have GM accounts create PLEX out of thin air, give them to alts, and place them on the market.
I'm not saying this is happening, but CCP has the same power that a federal reserve bank has. They are the only ones that can "print" both ISK and PLEX and thus ultimately can determine the "value" of this currency. |
Carceret Rinah
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 17:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Tainted Karma wrote: This isn't true at all. PLEX is no different than a ship or an other item in the game. It's merely a destructible item that some people deem have value. An introduction of a PLEX into the market is no different than getting a nice drop off a mission.
Nonsense. No manufacturing, mining, missioning, research, ratting, etc., is involved in the creation of PLEX. They cannot be refined into their base elements. PLEX wildly outnumber officer drops. PLEX magically appear when GTC are converted; with significant value. Nothing in the EvE economy is needed for me to instantly become a billion ISK richer. Nothing. Sure, mission loot and salvage appears magically, but I still need to purchase a ship, fit it with modules, arm the weapons with ammo, etc....before I can reap those magic loots. In other words, I have to interact with the EvE economy in order to accumulate that type of ISK. More importantly, I need to spend the intangible cost of "time". Not so with PLEX......the very moment I convert GTC to a couple of PLEX.......BAMM!!......there's nearly a billion ISK suddenly appearing in the economy.
That billion came from ANOTHER PLAYER'S WALLET. They are now a billion ISK poorer. Check your market logs. The PLEX system doesn't create ISK, it enables trade of ISK in vast amounts among players. The thing created out of thin air is the game time on the account itself when you use a PLEX.
If you don't trust CCP to run the sandbox economy rationally, that is a whole other level of problem. Maybe you should start an Occupy EVE movement, for all the good it will do. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |