Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 09:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gecko O'Bac wrote:erm... Just wanted to ask something... Are you saying that a TWENTY PERCENT damage boost is nothing? You do realize that most increments in eve are for 5% or 3% damage per skill level? here with just one more skill level you basically gain what other skills need 4 levels to achieve. 20% damage boost is HUGE. And it's not only that, since there are the locked targets bonus AND the resolution bonus. While the resolution bonus by itself may be small enough to be barely noticeable, it's on top of the other changes and believe me, on ANY ship, if there was a module that could grant a 20% increase in damage, everybody would be fitting it.
Its all about the context this ship operates and nothing else that makes this module usage a dead horse because nobody will want to use 32-40 days of his training to get it.
20% in any other ship, including a titan, is excellent, and I will train for it on the spot!
But in a Dread its all about the context they operate on and we have to make a decision between the 1 - training time vs 2 - bonus it gives vs 3 - the difference it will make it the end of the day
1 - 32 to 40 days training 2 - 20% more damage 3 - none at all -> because you are in a cap fleet, your dps is a drop of water in a full cup, second you are in siege, so its 5 minutes you are stuck putting damage in the target. Individually putting more 20% and the fleet killing a target 2 seconds before the normal expected time will make no difference because you have to wait the 5m to end!
No alliance cap fleet requirements will make pilots train 32 days for this, so in a fleet 1 or 2 pilots train this will makes no difference at the end of the day for them or the fleet they are in.
Having this context in perspective, this specific module and bonus for a DREAD ship, and only this ship, is a waste of time spending 32 days to get it, sorry, but it is what it is.
So my final conclusions remains, or this module gives something more bonus that compensates an individual pilot going for it having in mind the context of Dreads in Eve/Fleets, or CCP lowers the bar and allows pilots to go for it at L4, because 5-8 days training for L4 is an acceptable training time for 20% more damage and alliances will make dread pilots go for it, 32-40 is not. |
Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 10:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:because 5-8 days training for L4 is an acceptable training time for 20% more damage and alliances will make dread pilots go for it, 32-40 is not.
Nope. For a highly advanced T2 Module like the Siege Module, 30 days are a reasonable amount of time. You have to consider that we are talking about a capital ship, not a simple battleship or battlecruiser. Capitals are, or should be (Ratting carriers go to hell!), not used for your daily activities, but are designed for very specific tasks. And the task of a dreadnought is to kill big things quick. While the tank of a dread seems impressive at first glance, one must consider that most of their targets pack enough punch to break this tank without too much problem. That considered, a tanking bonus would be quite useless, as it would just delay the dead of the dread for a few seconds. A tracking bonus would be great, of course (and the Phoenix would absolutely love [and needs] a reduced explosion velocity), but it could easily break the balance of the dreads, more than any other possible bonus.
Regarding T2 ganglinks, I think that they should only be useable by FCS. T3 were just nerfed a few months ago when the scanning threshold was removed. Buffing them again would be a horrible, horrible decision. And players should of course be rewarded for actually fielding their commandship, instead of having a T3 at a Pos/ warping between safespots.
T2 triage is absolutely worthless. A immobile ship with about 180km locking range und 52km rr-range does not need 20% more target range. |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 11:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Klingon Admiral wrote:Unforgiven Storm wrote:because 5-8 days training for L4 is an acceptable training time for 20% more damage and alliances will make dread pilots go for it, 32-40 is not. Nope. For a highly advanced T2 Module like the Siege Module, 30 days are a reasonable amount of time. You have to consider that we are talking about a capital ship, not a simple battleship or battlecruiser. Capitals are, or should be (Ratting carriers go to hell!), not used for your daily activities, but are designed for very specific tasks. And the task of a dreadnought is to kill big things quick. While the tank of a dread seems impressive at first glance, one must consider that most of their targets pack enough punch to break this tank without too much problem. That considered, a tanking bonus would be quite useless, as it would just delay the dead of the dread for a few seconds. A tracking bonus would be great, of course (and the Phoenix would absolutely love [and needs] a reduced explosion velocity), but it could easily break the balance of the dreads, more than any other possible bonus. (...)
I agree with you that a capital module like this must deserve some importance and putting it on the top of a training skill (L5) gives it this importance, but I still stand that the bonus it gives Today is not worth the time to get there.
You suggested that the module should give more bonus and that is one of the 2 solutions I propose in my earlier post: -> give more so people want it. But I leave open a second solution, If CCP doesnGÇÖt want to give more bonus, then it has to lower the bar. In the context of Dreads, 32 days for only these bonus will make this module one for item collectors in Eve and nothing more.
I agree with you, an extra bonus that gives a flat % to all resistances, (without accumulation penalties of others already in place) will be a nice step to deserve a training, even so some other bonus are needed, starting by improving the already existent scan resolution bonus to a better value of 20% instead of 6,6% and given a bonus to reduce the explosion velocity also around 20% and at that moment we have a Capital module T2 that I will train for no question about it.
(Side note: The HP/resistance issue bonus for triage dreads is an open issue for some time now. The idea I have, and many people I discuss this with, about Dreads in Siege, is that they behave like a POS during the Siege, they stop moving and starts hammering DPS like a Mother F*, so they should also tank more like a POS and it doesn't !! they are paper, a super kills one in siege in less than a minute with 20 bombers. Since giving them more HP seams a little too much, at least giving them more resistances will be a good start, anyway we are using Stront, isn't this that makes POS became invul after an reinforcement, why can't a Siege module consuming Stront give little more resistances to a dread? it makes all the sense in the world! In conclusion: --> Siege modules should have bonus to resistances, even the T1 ! T1 triage while active should give some flat resistance % to a Dread (without accumulation penalties of others already in place), the T2 should give a more.)
Klingon Admiral wrote: T2 triage is absolutely worthless. A immobile ship with about 180km locking range und 52km rr-range does not need 20% more target range.
Totally agree, couldn't test it in sisi because I have no skills for it, but looking at the stats, nobody will want it.. once again 32 days for range, lol.. Give a couple of bonus related with cap recharge rage and RR range and it might be worth the time to train for it, otherwise... |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 11:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
If the devs responsibles could gives us some feedback on our feedback so we don't fill that we lost time testing and looking to the modules for nothing, thanks...
we are sensitive players, we need hugs and attention -> lets go, group hug between devs and players! -> feedback please. |
Miriiah
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 12:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Make navy omnidir links 30%, t2 makes these obsolete and drones sorta need abit more love....
Drone Navigation Computer, possibly worth fitting if the t2 version was 35%.... 25% to 30% is just an insult considering it's plain t1 to t2.
As many others said, boost t2 triage module
Nerf t3's down to FC ganglink strength. |
Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 13:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote: 3 - none at all -> because you are in a cap fleet, your dps is a drop of water in a full cup, second you are in siege, so its 5 minutes you are stuck putting damage in the target. Individually putting more 20% and the fleet killing a target 2 seconds before the normal expected time will make no difference because you have to wait the 5m to end!
I'm not sure I agree with this. For instance, let's say you're firing at target X for 100 dps. For 5 minutes. Target x has around 33k hp. You have to fire at it for more than 1 cycle, thus commiting for 10 minutes. Enter 20% damage boost. The target now is subject to 120 dps for 5 minutes, totalling 36k damage. Boom. You can now leave after the first cycle.
Another scenario: Fleet x is firing against a supercap. Supercap getting it for 20% more damage than before, with the same tank. Target goes down around 20% faster, meaning you take less casualties as well, since the enemy has less time to fire on you.
Another scenario: Fleet x is firing against a supercap. Usually it'd take around 100 dreads (easy number for example, ofc) to bring it down in time. With the 20% damage boost, you only need 84. It means you can attack or defend yourself more reliably even when momentarily low on numbers.
So, with this... I agree, it's not like having a normal damage mod on another ship. It's the siege mode on a dread... But it's still 20% boost. The 30ish days are kinda the bare minimum, perhaps it won't be a "hard" requirement for corp members, but I can see why it would be advised to train it. Afterall I'm training large autocannons spec for a whopping 2% increase in damage, and the training time is around the same. |
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 17:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
With the T2 mining laser field enhancement the range of a T2 Stripminer will be about 24.824km when used with an orca (a bit more with a rorqual) but a survey scanner still has a maximum range of 22.5km. how about increasing the range of the survey scanners, maybe either by skill, boost the module it self or via the mindlink?
|
Fioda Skiza
Exiles of the Stars
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 19:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
boost the Sisters' Probe Launcher. you are killing this module.
I think an additional 10% scan deviation bonus and 10% scan time bonus for the Sister's launchers would be nice. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
92
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 21:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Tech III should not do command, hac, recon, etc better than tech II. You really ****** this up.
Basically what you are saying is that we shouldnt have tech 3 ships at all. Lets face it, if a particular ship of any type isnt "the best" for the job at hand, why pick it?
The fleet command ships have the advantage of carrying 3 links without penalty and can generally tank better than command configured T3s - which is precisely WHY you would use the T3s off grid. Ideally u would want it with the fleet, but if ist just gonna die anyway, u need to adjust. Offgrid is not unproblematic, especialy in moving fleets. I think its a fair tradeoff.
As for the T2 links, it increases the difference between the haves and the have-nots of fleets, the organized and the unorganized. Command ships and command links encourages organization, a goal which is at the very foundation of what EVE is about. |
Moonaura
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 21:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bomb Launcher II is... well... I would never train for it. Given the cost of what it will likely be on the market, even when princes are stable, it isn't worth the extra money given the fragile nature of stealth bombers and certainly isn't worth the extra training time to get it.
Sorry CCP. Still love you for the destroyer changes though. |
|
NeoShocker
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 22:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hm, I personally think the t2 links should have .5 more to full percent. I mean, I put a ton of effort to help fleet to be better! Max leadership skills. But what bothers me is more when tech3 cruisers is better than a dedicated commandships :-( |
PinkKnife
Garden Of The Gods
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 02:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
The t2 bomb launcher is kinda useless, bombers are incredibly tough fits as it is, the extra cpu needed nigh ensures it will never be used for a mere delay reduction. Most bombers only fire one as it is before warping off.
Now, if there were T2 bombs that did more damage or had a higher range, that would make the modules have some value. |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 06:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
T2 Siege: good. In fact, training for it already :)
T2 Triage: as mentioned, completely worthless. 100km+ base lockrange on a carrier, can't be damped in triage and 57km remote-rr range. +20% lockrange has nil effect whatsoever.
T2 Links: like them. The modest efficiency increase is good, considering how it is multiplied by support skills and items. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 08:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kalot Sakaar wrote:VERY much like the new gang links! Don't have a command ship yet to test them on but singles on the BC's work nicely. Interdiction Maneuvers! Hell yes!
Stop complaining about off grid boosts. Just use some tactics and scan the ship down. He can't keep them on on in warp either so its totally easy to counter off gird boosters.
Not so easy when they sit behind a POS shield and a bit harder to push out of shield with another ship. |
Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 09:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Joinin the call, T2 triage is worthless as it stands.
Make the bonus something useful: they can rep sieged dreads. That would shake the capital game up a bit. |
Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 09:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote:Kalot Sakaar wrote:VERY much like the new gang links! Don't have a command ship yet to test them on but singles on the BC's work nicely. Interdiction Maneuvers! Hell yes!
Stop complaining about off grid boosts. Just use some tactics and scan the ship down. He can't keep them on on in warp either so its totally easy to counter off gird boosters. Not so easy when they sit behind a POS shield and a bit harder to push out of shield with another ship.
Also, there are (unless they changed it recently) unscannable T3 command fits, that can be place in a safespot anywhere and will provide a fleet with bonuses without any fear of retaliation whatsoever. |
Fioda Skiza
Exiles of the Stars
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 12:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gecko O'Bac wrote: Also, there are (unless they changed it recently) unscannable T3 command fits, that can be place in a safespot anywhere and will provide a fleet with bonuses without any fear of retaliation whatsoever.
they did change it. every ship can be scanned. but the fits that were unscannable before became hard-scannable. you need almost perfect scan skills or an implant set. |
Gripen
125
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 14:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
I agree with those who say new tech 2 warfare links used together with T3 cruisers give pretty much over the top bonuses. And all of this for the same skill requirements as warfare mindlink implants which are "must have" for any gang booster. At least make them require Fleet Command V or Wing Command V. |
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 14:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:The t2 bomb launcher is kinda useless, bombers are incredibly tough fits as it is, the extra cpu needed nigh ensures it will never be used for a mere delay reduction. Most bombers only fire one as it is before warping off.
Now, if there were T2 bombs that did more damage or had a higher range, that would make the modules have some value.
how about a larger ammo-bay in the t2 launcher maybe to hold 2 bombs instead of 1. although i must confess i dont use bombs very often i always was under the impression that it would be nice to carry more bombs.. wich could be done in the launcher itself |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 18:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Svennig wrote:Joinin the call, T2 triage is worthless as it stands.
Make the bonus something useful: they can rep sieged dreads. That would shake the capital game up a bit.
Yes, it would kill shield dreads. The one thing that makes shield dreads currently viable in large-ish engagements is that they can not be repped anyway, so it does not matter if you tank on the same HP type as the RR assist on field.
If triage carriers were to receive that buff, dread fleets too would be single tanking type to leverage the RR.
@devs tl;dr: don't do this. |
|
bornaa
GRiD.
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 18:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
can you add a little bit more boost to T2 Links??? please??? because now its the lowest gain T2 thing you are putting in... |
Zircon Dasher
Zirconia Trade Group
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 18:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
bornaa wrote:can you add a little bit more boost to T2 Links??? please??? because now its the lowest gain T2 thing you are putting in...
Because %gain parity is equivalent to balance amirite?
We need 22-24km scrams after links. 19-20km is not sufficient. |
bornaa
GRiD.
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 18:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:bornaa wrote:can you add a little bit more boost to T2 Links??? please??? because now its the lowest gain T2 thing you are putting in... Because %gain parity is equivalent to balance amirite? We need 22-24km scrams after links. 19-20km is not sufficient.
now boost would be 10%... I am talking about boosting it to 15%... that isn't some big difference but make ppl happy and it would be then like 20-21km tops... (but 20km line broken ) |
Captain Alcatraz
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
The new T2 links are amazing
T2 triage is underwhelming
Sisters probe launcer needs to be boosted now that we have T2 |
Dro Nee
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 21:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Can somone confirm my math on the t2 link changes (don't have max skill booster alt to test with yet)
Max skill loki now gives 35% boost with Rapid Deployment Max skill loki now gives 49% boost with Interdiction
Cheers. |
Yvan Ratamnim
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
t2 links seem fine
leave the damn command t3's alone there 3x the cost, and no where near the ehp when fit for more than 1 link.... command ships have their purposes so do t3 command ships....
Please say CCP Devs are listening to the failness of t2 triage.... how about give it a cap bonus when in siege that would be nice or something useful range <> useful |
NeoShocker
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 07:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yvan Ratamnim wrote:t2 links seem fine
leave the damn command t3's alone there 3x the cost, and no where near the ehp when fit for more than 1 link.... command ships have their purposes so do t3 command ships....
Please say CCP Devs are listening to the failness of t2 triage.... how about give it a cap bonus when in siege that would be nice or something useful range <> useful
True, but I disagree on tech3 cruisers having more bonuses than a dedicated fleet commandships tho'. |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
90
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 14:34:00 -
[58] - Quote
I don't like that the T2 Modules have the same primary stats as faction modules. Examples are Probe Launchers and Omni. Tracking Link- Drone Upgrades.
Please nerf the T2 stats a bit or boost the stats of faction modules. |
Willl Adama
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
37
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 15:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Leave offgrid T3 command cruisers alone, it'll be bad news for many small roaming gangs if they have to bring ongrid commandships.
I do however think that Command ships should get the same bonus that the T3s do. Latest Video:-á-á Kill Will: Volume 4 |
Altarica
The Pale Eye
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 16:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
On the subject of warfare links and the ship bonus, as some people have mention the Tech 3's are out of line. I beleive that the Tech 3's are designed to be highly flexible vessels but not quite as good as the specialised Tech 2 version of their various roles, ie the Tech 3 recon/EW sections are not as powerful as the Tech 2 recon ships and the Tech 3 logistic's sections are not as good as the Tech 2 logistic hulls.
Only in the command Ship role is the Tech 3 better than the Tech 2 versions, so for an easy fix why not simply swap the two bonus(es) around so using the Vulture and Tengu as examples
The Vulture gets the 5% to effectiveness of siege warfare links and The Tengu gets the 3% to effectiveness of siege warfare links
This would put the warfare link Tech 3's back into their place as "better than Tech 1" but "not quite as good as Tech 2"
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |