C/Ped from Min. Capital discussion


No. The shortest range, heaviest cap usage weapon system in the game (already that way for a blaster moros, will get even worse fyi), should have a DPS advantage over a ship that can choose between an armor (matches capital meta-game) or shield (stronger (doubly so) burst active tank) tank easily and uses weapons that do not require capacitor while having good damage type selection. If anything, rework capital missiles because they are **** in general.

Give the nidhoggur:

8% bonus to armor and shield transfer ammount per carrier level instead of the 5%.

Increase it's agility as well.



Increase the repping transfer ammount to make it more of a viable use for triage operations. It may not be as robust as the Archon, but it will put some reps in before the duct tape melts.

Give it an agility bonus to allow it to be more versatile as a combat support carrier that is able to align with a fleet that may be moving around in system. May give way for more tactical uses of carriers.

I cannot repeat that often enough, the Cimera needs a serious bonus for fitting capital shield transfers and the capital shield booster needs to be looked at.
All the other carriers can be fitted with 2 capital armor reppers + their remote reppers they are supposed to fit.
Even with having the highest amount of cpu of all carriers the cimera can simply not fit what she is supposed to fit in case of logistics.
Go ahead and fit a chimera with the follwing,
High:
2x capital shield transfer I, 2x captial energy transfer I, (triage for some cases)
Med:
1x capital shield booster I, 1x shield boost amp II, 4x cap recharge II
Low:
3x capacitor flux coil II, 1x power diagnostic system II (for the powergrid)
Now 350 cpu for 2 shield modules is somewhat insane in comparison to the 75 cpu a capital armor repper needs, don't you think?

He's right you know.

Naglfar only needs one thing , give it back the third turret slot and remove 1 med from it.

Naglfar only needs one thing , give it back the third turret slot and remove 1 med from it.

Top damage, worse tank.

Nid and hel are both shi* its bonus make them consume cap faster, they have worst cap and worst tank if they are going to be giant guardians give them a op repair bonus , something that can make
a difference.

It does not have the worst tank unless you are armor tanking it. If you are saying that you need to balance the Naglfar based on its armor tank, then you should balance the phoenix the same way, on its armor tank. Insert OP phoenix here.

Relevant part of my first post

...

Armor EHP comparison(3x trimark Is, 2x EANM IIs, 1x DCU II)
Moros - 2,049,789
Revelation - 2,058,336
Naglfar (remove one EANM because of low slots, you should really be shield tanking this ship anyway) - 1,635,112

Shield EHP (Nag only - 3x Large Core Defence Field Extender, 2x invul IIs, DCU II)
Naglfar - 1,906,907 (Unaffected by compensation skills, does not require 5x lvl 5 skills to reach this level)
Naglfar (+1 invul (3 total) because, lets face it, you should be replacing a TC with a TE if shield fitted...) - 2,112,473

...

"BUT WAIT!" you say. "You are using one more slot to get that higher EHP out of a Naglfar."
"Yes, I am," I respond."However, the Moros has no ability to add a EHP slot without losing the third damage mod. On top of that, that capacitor you gain from that one cap mod the Moros gets is lost when you realize that the Moros's guns use capacitor."

But you still, despite the EHP, burst tank, capless weapons, damage selection, and versatility of the Naglfar, think that it should get more DPS than a Moros?

The Naglfar's issue is that the autocannons lack the significant falloff of their lesser cousins and the missiles are rather poor.

The issue of shield capital bonuses / slave implants on armor ships is an entirely separate issue and has not been addressed well enough by CCP.

Beyond those two issues, the Naglfar is not broken.

So in your example of the Moros tank having 3 dmg mods to keep it's EHP lower, when the Nag would have to use all 6 of it's lows in dmg mods to get the same percentage effect for it's split weapon systems. Go back and fit your moros with 2 dmg mods and and more tank and show those numbers. If you want to try to get your apples closer to oranges that is.

Also those two issues you listed are part of the game we play in and just ignoring them doesn't change them. You are also ignoring the fact a Moros pilot has quiet a bit less to train to get in to his dread than a Nag pilot.

So in your example of the Moros tank having 3 dmg mods to keep it's EHP lower, when the Nag would have to use all 6 of it's lows in dmg mods to get the same percentage effect for it's split weapon systems. Go back and fit your moros with 2 dmg mods and and more tank and show those numbers. If you want to try to get your apples closer to oranges that is.

Also those two issues you listed are part of the game we play in and just ignoring them doesn't change them. You are also ignoring the fact a Moros pilot has quiet a bit less to train to get in to his dread than a Nag pilot.

The naglfar has an advantage in that you can change damage types and your guns and missiles use absolutely no cap. The Naglfar is fine.

Chimera needs significantly more CPU, it can Triage decently (3x shield rr, 1x cap transfer), but CPU makes it a pain in the ass, especially as you fit more expensive, high-cpu shield boost amps (also there is an issue if you do not fit the meta 2 capital modules for reduced CPU usage). Having said that, it fits decently if you throw in a 5% CPU implant, for what its worth. Look at it compared to the Archon + thanny, CPU is never an issue for those two.

Having said that, if you toss some isk in, the Chimera does get a beastly tank out of the deal.

BTW, Nid cannot fit self armor and remote armor decently; it has to have one tank shield and the other armor(self armor and remote shield or self shield and remote armor).

TLDR: Give Chimera more CPU, maybe some PG as well

It also takes the most skill points to fly effectively, and by no small margin. They have to train 2 completely different weapon systems with 2 completely different sets of support skills and use 2 completely different sets of upgrade modules. TL;DR: the Naglfar is definitely not fine.

Every pilot in all races do this. So you are not alone.

All this Minmatar tears here bitching about their Cap ship is not Op is ridiculous.

I think because their being op in each quarter of the game has made them think that simply being Minnie pilot
would priviledge them with everything overpowered.

They cannot bear to think otherwise.

What they need is a nerfbat of reality to bring them down to earth.

So a Nag pilot gets to train Projectile, Cruise skills and Torp skills to cover the required ranges and to be behind in DPS now eh? And to have that "flexible subpar" tanking that was talked about requires the need to train shield and armor skills up.

Given that case you won't see many new Nag pilots. They will just chose to train for the new easy mode Moros since it's the "best" dread now and easier to get in to.

yesterday I tested my Nyx against Baddon and Tornado. It is a pain - fighter bomber against subcaps. The

summary supercarrier nerf:
- nerf ehp (was ok)
- removing of drones (why no separately drone bay?)
- only fighter (useless against structures and almost useless against frig-/cruiser-/bc-sized ships) OR fighter bomber (useless against subcaps)
- introduction of 36km T2-HIC-Bubble
- No-introduction of new neutralizer to compensate the new hic-bubble
- introduction of Tier3-BC (with t2 ganklinks very low sigradius, but battleship-DPS for 60M fullfitted)
- dreadnought-buff (dockable, full insureable, cheap, nearly same dps)
- logoffski-change (it's ok, but in addition to all other points it is a heavy nerf too)

only my opinion as a bittervet

Lack of any fix for the massive disparity between shield and armor supers is kind of stunning. Slaves still work on armor supers with no shield equivalent AND shield supers still have to deal with poor application of shield bonuses? Meh.

On a side note (and potentially off topic) I still feel it was a huge mistake turning SC's into DPS boats. A normal carrier is a logistics boat (hauling, repairing, providing fitting service, etc.) so why would the "super" variant have as its primary role a damage dealer? I envisioned them as a carrier capable of fitting 6-8 bonused capital RR mods, sporting a tank in the realm of 5-10 times that of a normal carrier, and doubling (or more) its hauling capacity.

It also takes the most skill points to fly effectively, and by no small margin. They have to train 2 completely different weapon systems with 2 completely different sets of support skills and use 2 completely different sets of upgrade modules. Minmatar are known for projectiles, and only a select few of their ships are made for missiles; why in the world would CCP make the 1 Minmatar dreadnaught one of those missile ships, when most minmatar pilots have no significant use for missile skills?

Whine all you want about capacitor use and not being able to change damage types with the Revelation; that's the same with the majority of Amarr ships. If you don't like having weapon cap usage and damage type restrictions, don't fly Amarr (derp). If CCP had similarly made the Amarr dreadnaught a Khanid missile boat, then I'd fully support your argument about the Revelation being screwed up.

TL;DR: the Naglfar is definitely not fine.