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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1429
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up.
If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784
And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller.
So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
131
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
inb4 locked |
Jove Death
Jovian Vengeance
114
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
oh noes you mentioned the RMT word
RUN FOR THE HILLS \o/
Actually I would like to see where this goes before the lock aswell and all the other issues in the past 6 months
Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
65
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
also: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290777&find=unread
I mean, how can they have discussed the bad three letters when Somer ain't nothing to do with those same bad letters?? |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
579
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
hmmm, interesting! Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1734
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
real cash via the legit ccp-created system, yes |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1429
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah I know, but if CCP don't have the decency to give us an answer then I don't see why I should stop re-posting threads that have already been posted. At the end of the day I'm going to continue until either they ban me, or they decide that perhaps addressing the concerns of their community is a good idea. Honestly, it's been going on long enough that I don't really care which anymore. I've got GTA V to play, and by the end of the year 2 shiny new consoles. I'm certainly not going to sit in silence while they discriminate against the rest of the community however. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1536
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP are so collectively dumb sometimes. lmfao Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
182
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Falcon's response (instantly quoting the EULA) is interesting. Why is he able to come to the conclusion that this is illegal but it's taking weeks for them to come to the same conclusion with SOMER.
If you're going to randomly close threads and quote the EULA then answer our ****** questions. Why is CCP avoiding the subject when it comes to SOMER but instantly swinging the banhammer in all other cases?? My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
IDGAD
Get in the van I have candy.
25
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Posted - 2013.10.28 14:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
This.... is rather disconcerting. From the looks of that guy who got banned for it, he was doing pretty much exactly the thing blink does. He was selling GTC codes and offering extra credit used to get in-game items. This credit can not be sold or converted back to real money, and could only be used for getting the in-game items..... this is EXACTLY what blink does. I always thought CCP was ok with this kind of thing as long as there is no way to convert FROM in game items back to real money. Since this is not doing that, and since this is pretty much like blink, I'm now starting to wonder what CCP is thinking. To quote one of CCP's Public Relations representatives from EVE Vegas, "It feels like I'm a mob lawyer; CCP tells me all the bad things they do, and I try to fix them" lol best way of putting it ever to show how really fudged up CCP is right now. |
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
183
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Posted - 2013.10.28 14:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:This.... is rather disconcerting. From the looks of that guy who got banned for it, he was doing pretty much exactly the thing blink does. He was selling GTC codes and offering extra credit used to get in-game items. This credit can not be sold or converted back to real money, and could only be used for getting the in-game items..... this is EXACTLY what blink does. I always thought CCP was ok with this kind of thing as long as there is no way to convert FROM in game items back to real money. Since this is not doing that, and since this is pretty much like blink, I'm now starting to wonder what CCP is thinking. To quote one of CCP's Public Relations representatives from EVE Vegas, "It feels like I'm a mob lawyer; CCP tells me all the bad things they do, and I try to fix them" lol best way of putting it ever to show how really fudged up CCP is right now.
Actually this guy nor SOMER are selling GTC's themselves. They are promoting the use of their affiliate link, nothing more. The GTC isn't actually bought from the person advertising or from SOMER so the whole "selling of GTC's outside of CCP created systems is now allowed" doesn't even make any bit of sense. The GTC IS being sold through CCP created systems. Not our fault that system is completely broken. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.10.28 14:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:CCP are so collectively dumb sometimes. lmfao
Sometimes? |
Karrl Tian
Ice Patrol
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Start a pyramid scheme and you'll go to jail.
Unless you're the U.S. government then it's called Social Security. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1376
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Remember the marketing CCP used to come out with, how anyone with enough will and ability could rise to the top of the heap in Eve?
Remember all the stuff about this being a "sandbox" where the same rules were equally applied?
Well, guess we are all created equal, with a selected few more equal than others. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals Market and Contract PVP
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Remember the marketing CCP used to come out with, how anyone with enough will and ability could rise to the top of the heap in Eve?
Remember all the stuff about this being a "sandbox" where the same rules were equally applied?
Well, guess we are all created equal, with a selected few more equal than others.
Ban all Goons, SOMER employees and miners. |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Public Disorder.
604
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Somer dont sell plex... they use third party that is perfectly legal, (dragon game time codes... or something). They then add on some out of game currancy to the transactions for going through them.
- Nulla Curas |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
381
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Falcon's response (instantly quoting the EULA) is interesting. Why is he able to come to the conclusion that this is illegal but it's taking weeks for them to come to the same conclusion with SOMER.
If you're going to randomly close threads and quote the EULA then answer our ****** questions. Why is CCP avoiding the subject when it comes to SOMER but instantly swinging the banhammer in all other cases??
Edit: Also, was this thread just closed and then ninja re-opened?
It's CCP. As they continue to emphasize, they can and will do whatever the hell they like. The only reason they have to apply the rules fairly and equally is the good will of their customers. These last months have shown what little value CCP places on that good will.
So please, tell us, CCP (even though you have no obligation to): Will you continue to allow ToS/EULA-breaking behaviour in certain cases while cracking down on behaviour not even mentioned? Are you going to keep banning people who broke no discernible rule, just because you can? Are you going to allow Somer Blink to keep operating, just because you like them?
How about sales on gametime for only one country, excluding the rest of the world through your incompetence? Can we ever expect matching sales to appear for non-U.S. users?
The list goes on and on. You keep treating your playerbase like this...when we pay your bills. I'm someone who hasn't voted with their wallet yet, because I still like to 'play' eve. It's only a matter of time though, until no amount of enjoyment I get from the game can justify this kind of treatment. There are dozens of games out at the moment that deserve my gaming hours. Tell me: Why should I continue my 6 year subscription?
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer?
As a few people may know I have often disagreed with Lucas in regards to Somer + RMT discussion.
However, I can not see why CCP have deemed this to be a violation of the TOS.
Other then the fancy website, the BL pilot is doing what Somer and a few others are doing.
You click on his affiliate link and in return you gain a ticket which is entered into a raffle to win a nyx.
I would love a more detailed explanation why this is a against the TOS where as its fine with Somer and what a few other people are doing. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? As a few people may know I have often disagreed with Lucas in regards to Somer + RMT discussion. However, I can not see why CCP have deemed this to be a violation of the TOS. Other then the fancy website, the BL pilot is doing what Somer and a few others are doing. You click on his affiliate link and in return you gain a ticket which is entered into a raffle to win a nyx. I would love a more detailed explanation why this is a against the TOS where as its fine with Somer and what a few other people are doing.
Regardless if you are anti-SOMER or pro-SOMER;
If the post made by Falcon is actually the mindset of CCP as a company then they have just given their verdict on this kind of RMT. Unless there is some minor difference between SOMER and this guy, CCP has just stated that the SOMER sceme is illegal RMT. Simple.
The next question becomes; why is it not acted upon? My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
IDGAD
Get in the van I have candy.
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? As a few people may know I have often disagreed with Lucas in regards to Somer + RMT discussion. However, I can not see why CCP have deemed this to be a violation of the TOS. Other then the fancy website, the BL pilot is doing what Somer and a few others are doing. You click on his affiliate link and in return you gain a ticket which is entered into a raffle to win a nyx. I would love a more detailed explanation why this is a against the TOS where as its fine with Somer and what a few other people are doing.
Honestly it seems as if CCP has lost it's internal structure or culture. There do not seem to be many limits or guidelines placed on what is proper and what is not. One GM/dev will say one thing is allowed while the other will go around and contradict it. CCP as a company seems to lack the structure it needs to be what it once was. Remember right after they reconstructed a few years ago and fired off so many plebeians that we got some AMAZING and FULL expansions? They were working with LESS and still got amazing stuff done. They only recently started hiring again at CCP, and it already appears they need another purge and restructuring. |
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3896
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
CCP has made it pretty clear they will not answer any direct questions about this, at least not until they can figure out some convoluted way to spin it to be positive for players. So, enjoy your upcoming survey and locked threads, and keep buying PLEX!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Carrey Winter
Hoover Inc. Black Legion.
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hi! The proposed Nyx lottery was my idea, to add value to the discussion and to understand whats allowed and what is not.
I basically tried to be as close to Blink as possible. To be *exactly* like blink I'd also have had to allow people to buy tickets for ISK, let's say 300m per ticket. Not that it matters, because people wouldn't buy those, as they're too expensive. Buy hey, how large the cut is is my business, Blink does 25%, I can propose 50% (like real life lotteries do). It certainly does not play a role in the EULA/TOS.
Please also see the discussion on reddit over here http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1pdj2o/first_ccp_response_to_affiliate_link_rmt_schemes/
Quote:There is no difference to somer blink in terms how you'd cash out. I'd even argue that it's better, because on Somer you have 100% chance of cashing out on a GTC giving 200m Credits. If you buy all tickets, after Blinks 25% cut, you'll get ~150m ISK ingame. On the proposed Nyx lottery you'd have a 0.5% chance of getting ingame stuff (on 1 GTC).
Somer of course is a hugely successful business, being philantrophic with the massive ISK they're earning from EVE pilots. You could argue that they're providing a service to the community while I'm would not have (if I had ran the lottery, which I wasn't going to). Does that mean they are allowed to RMT while others are not? In my opinion everyone can provide ingame incentives for affiliate links or no one can, thats the basis of the sandbox - that everyone has the same chances as everyone else.
Quote:Somer is a player. You can't forbid incentives to players and then also allow them to selected players, because the game is advertized as a sandbox aka everyone has the same chances and possibilities. CCP playing favourites and having special rules for some part of the ingame population goes against everything EVE stands for.
Simple example: Let's assume Blink was in fact owned by The Mittani :tinfoil: Would you be cool with CCP giving Goons hundreds of billions of ISK in special ingame items, allowing them to even make real life money, while no one else can? Why should CCP then be able to do that to Somer?
I'm pretty sure no one argued that it was ok for CCP to give special ingame items and favouritism to BOB, and CCP giving special ingame items and favouritsm to Blink are 2 sides of the same coin. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1734
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Somer dont sell plex... they use third party that is perfectly legal, (dragon game time codes... or something). They then add on some out of game currancy to the transactions for going through them.
As was the guy in the OP's link. Both award raffle tickets for ingame items for buying the GTC through their affiliate link. For SOMER, it's spacebuxx for realbuxx.
Eram Fidard wrote:How about sales on gametime for only one country, excluding the rest of the world through your incompetence? Can we ever expect matching sales to appear for non-U.S. users?
Amazon's mistake, not CCP's. And you don't correct a mistake by making the same mistake again. Let it go. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
185
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
CCP has made it pretty clear they will not answer any direct questions about this, at least not until they can figure out some convoluted way to spin it to be positive for players. So, enjoy your upcoming survey and locked threads, and keep buying PLEX!
They can't ignore it forever. If anything they will get the question at least once on Fanfest and if people are as passionate about it there as on here, they won't get away with not giving a satisfying answer. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1538
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Quote:Simple example: Let's assume Blink was in fact owned by The Mittani :tinfoil: Would you be cool with CCP giving Goons hundreds of billions of ISK in special ingame items, allowing them to even make real life money, while no one else can?
This is what it comes down to. If it was GoonerBlink getting favoritism, the whole game could have literally collapsed by now from the backlash. It is in CCP's own best interests to avoid even the impression of favoritism, like the vast majority of professional organizations understand. I guess game designers are just generally more naive and immature, and don't understand stuff like this until it blows up in their face. It really shouldn't have to be explained and discussed at length, and the fact that it apparently does is not a good sign for the institutional health of CCP. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
381
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:How about sales on gametime for only one country, excluding the rest of the world through your incompetence? Can we ever expect matching sales to appear for non-U.S. users? Amazon's mistake, not CCP's. And you don't correct a mistake by making the same mistake again. Let it go.
CCP's Mistake, not Amazon's. And no, I'm not talking about the $5 plex overnight. I'm talking about the 6-PLEX sales exclusively on amazon.com a month or so ago.
I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Carrey Winter
Hoover Inc. Black Legion.
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com. |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Hi! The proposed Nyx lottery was my idea, to add value to the discussion and to understand whats allowed and what is not.
I basically tried to be as close to Blink as possible. To be *exactly* like blink I'd also have had to allow people to buy tickets for ISK, let's say 300m per ticket. Not that it matters, because people wouldn't buy those, as they're too expensive. Buy hey, how large the cut is is my business, Blink does 25%, I can propose 50% (like real life lotteries do). It certainly does not play a role in the EULA/TOS.
Unfortunately for your experiment, this is actually the critical point. You MUST allow people to buy tickets with ISK in addition to the GTC affiliate link clicking if you want to properly replicate Blink and prove the hypocrisy in CCP's response.
The key issue has always been that what Blink is doing is considered merely a bonus "incentive" to their primary purpose of running an in-game ISK/lottery system. The Nyx lottery, on the other hand, REQUIRES buying a GTC which suddenly makes THAT the primary purpose.
Either allow people to buy tickets to the Nyx lottery with in-game ISK, or get TOS'd like every other half-assed doesn't-quite-get-it attempt to point out the double standard. |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
1683
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
IN
I like Bacon Zimmy Zeta -I f*cking love martinis.the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1435
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Unfortunately for your experiment, this is actually the critical point. You MUST allow people to buy tickets with ISK in addition to the GTC affiliate link clicking if you want to properly replicate Blink and prove the hypocrisy in CCP's response.
The key issue has always been that what Blink is doing is considered merely a bonus "incentive" to their primary purpose of running an in-game ISK/lottery system. Buying the GTC to participate in Blink is 100% optional. This Nyx lottery, on the other hand, REQUIRES buying a GTC which suddenly makes the GTC/RMT aspect the primary purpose.
Either allow people to buy tickets to the Nyx lottery with in-game ISK, or get TOS'd like every other half-assed doesn't-quite-get-it attempt to point out the double standard. "primary purpose". This is the bit I disagree with above. How do you know what blinks primary purpose is? That's up to them. From what I can see, they are a business, thus their primary purpose would be sustaining that business, thus would be the money making part. The ISK for lotteries side of it is nothing more than a way to generate the in game income to support their RMT, and traffic to their site. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
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MEZZA Creire-Geng
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
16
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
this company is becoming a joke flying CCP fleets where powerbloc regularly roam to drop rare items, gifting somer blink with ships, the 4.98 amazon thing not to mention the amazon offer from before that was only available for the US customers. |
Alt Two
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com. To buy digital items on amazon.com you need a US postal address. Nowhere does it say it has to be a valid address though ;) The above also applies to amazon.de, which had the same 6 plex deal. |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:"primary purpose". This is the bit I disagree with above. How do you know what blinks primary purpose is? That's up to them.
By allowing you to participate in Blink entirely with in-game ISK and never making GTC purchases anything but optional, Blink has the freedom to argue that RMT is not their primary purpose. No one actually cares what Blink's TRUE motive is; it's irrelevant. What matters is, can Blink make an argument that they are not RMT/TOS-violating? Yes, they can, because anyone can play Blink with in-game ISK and buying GTC's is optional. Unless the OP's Nyx lottery replicates this aspect, they are not actually doing anything useful in trying to point out a double-standard. |
Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com.
Only on certain items.
I have tried to purchase plex before on amazon.com before and it would not let me as I was not a US Resident.
|
David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer?
wait wait goon pets have voices? |
Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Alt Two wrote:Carrey Winter wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com. To buy digital items on amazon.com you need a US postal address. Nowhere does it say it has to be a valid address though ;) The above also applies to amazon.de, which had the same 6 plex deal.
Ohh just noticed this post.. will have to try that sometime :) |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1437
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:"primary purpose". This is the bit I disagree with above. How do you know what blinks primary purpose is? That's up to them. By allowing you to participate in Blink entirely with in-game ISK and never making GTC purchases anything but optional, Blink has the freedom to argue that RMT is not their primary purpose. No one actually cares what Blink's TRUE motive is; it's irrelevant. What matters is, can Blink make an argument that they are not RMT/TOS-violating? Yes, they can, because anyone can play Blink with in-game ISK and buying GTC's is optional. Unless the OP's Nyx lottery replicates this aspect, they are not actually doing anything useful in trying to point out a double standard. But Carrey could easily claim that his primary purpose is the distribution of a Nyx to the community. If you're free to give any reason you want, then everyone could say whatever they want to. The "primary purpose" is entirely beside the point. The effect is that ISK gets turned into cash, in both circumstances. I would then further argue that Somer run their account for distribution and collection of the goods on their site. Being that their site is a business, that again, against the EULA as accounts may only be for personal use. And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
To be honest, after reading several articals by other eve players, i stopped careing about the whole somer this somer that, threads,
It's sortta depressing to read all these threads about players whineing over who gets what and who gets nothing, its like being in kindergarden all over again.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1437
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? wait wait goon pets have voices? Oh so people still call coalition members pets? I thought that was last years fad. And if you haven't noticed I'm pretty vocal until now, you clearly don't read the forums enough. Go back under your bridge until you've got something relevant to add to the discussion. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
If they were to do something about it (they should) then it would mean they were wrong all along. So Somer will continue to be a special snowflake that gets handled differently than any other ingame organization. |
|
Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:To be honest, after reading several articals by other eve players, i stopped careing about the whole somer this somer that, threads,
It's sortta depressing to read all these threads about players whineing over who gets what and who gets nothing, its like being in kindergarden all over again.
You see, I kind of said something similar in that people should stop moaning, get off their backsides if it upsets them so much and join them as it is very easy to do.
Now some people have started which is great but CCP are saying they are breaking the TOS.
The whole tickets for a Nyx Lottery if you use the referral is a good idea, but why does it break the TOS and Somer doesn't?
There are also a couple of people doing similar things yet so far it appears they are okay.
The problem is that it is now looking like favouritism, i.e its fine for them but not for you.
I have no issues what anybody does so long as it is open to all players.
Just citing the TOS is a cop out.
I would like to see a proper explanation and how that ties into the TOS and why other people doing similar things do not for foul of the TOS.
If anything it will make things much more clear for others if they choose to do something similar. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
"Anyone can buy from amazon.com just provide a (fake) US address"
I am not commonly in the habit of perpetrating fraud for a discount on ingame currency. Guess that's my own silly fault, then :roll eyes: Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different?
Yes... this is, in fact, the CRITICAL difference. If you can't participate entirely via in-game means, it's not a replication of what Blink is doing. Do I agree that it's little more than a technicality? Sure, maybe. But space-lawerying is ALL ABOUT technicalities. To copy exactly what Blink is doing, the OP's Nyx lottery MUST allow for pure in-game participation in the lottery, which means awarding tickets for ISK or some other purely legal in-game reward/mechanism (but ISK is the simplest and easiest choice). Only then would any CCP response, whatever it is, be arguably applicable to Blink as well.
|
Prince Kobol
1059
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different? Yes... this is, in fact, the CRITICAL difference. If you can't participate entirely via in-game means, it's not a replication of what Blink is doing. Do I agree that it's little more than a technicality? Sure, maybe. But space-lawerying is ALL ABOUT technicalities. To copy exactly what Blink is doing, the OP's Nyx lottery MUST allow for pure in-game participation in the lottery, which means awarding tickets for ISK or some other purely legal in-game reward/mechanism (but ISK is the simplest and easiest choice). Only then would any CCP response, whatever it is, be arguably applicable to Blink as well.
Whilst that maybe the reason, we are still just guessing.
This si why CCP need to stop just copying and pasting the TOS and EULA and actually explain with words why they have decided that one has broken the TOS and another hasn't. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1440
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:"Anyone can buy from amazon.com just provide a (fake) US address"
I am not commonly in the habit of perpetrating fraud for a discount on ingame currency. Guess that's my own silly fault, then :roll eyes: You don;t need to provide a fake address. There are sites that can provide you with correspondence addresses. You can also provide the address of anyone you know from the US.
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different? Yes... this is, in fact, the CRITICAL difference. If you can't participate entirely via in-game means, it's not a replication of what Blink is doing. Do I agree that it's little more than a technicality? Sure, maybe. But space-lawerying is ALL ABOUT technicalities. To copy exactly what Blink is doing, the OP's Nyx lottery MUST allow for pure in-game participation in the lottery, which means awarding tickets for ISK or some other purely legal in-game reward/mechanism (but ISK is the simplest and easiest choice). Only then would any CCP response, whatever it is, be arguably applicable to Blink as well. Bull, the thread was not closed because it was only offering an out of game method, it was closed because it was converting ISK to cash, exactly the same thing Somer does every single day.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
550
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP > DAMN YOU GENIE GET BACK IN THE BOTTLE!!!! |
Lord Ryan
True Xero True Zombies
864
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:Honestly it seems as if CCP has lost it's internal structure or culture. There do not seem to be many limits or guidelines placed on what is proper and what is not. One GM/dev will say one thing is allowed while the other will go around and contradict it. CCP as a company seems to lack the structure it needs to be what it once was. Remember right after they reconstructed a few years ago and fired off so many plebeians that we got some AMAZING and FULL expansions? They were working with LESS and still got amazing stuff done. They only recently started hiring again at CCP, and it already appears they need another purge and restructuring.
You mean what gets one person banned, get another a golden ship?
Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
|
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Bull, the thread was not closed because it was only offering an out of game method, it was closed because it was converting ISK to cash, exactly the same thing Somer does every single day.
Can you prove that? If CCP bothers to clarify at all, what happens when their clarification is "Closed for TOS violation because there was no in-game method of participating in the lottery"?
Whatever you BELIEVE the reason it was closed is irrelevant; until someone replicates Blink PRECISELY (and a purely in-game method of participation is a pretty huge part of that), there is absolutely no "scientific" value in these attempts to call out the double standard. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP has no credibility at all and is just trolling the entire customer base with this nonsense.
Given CCP's past history of gifting favorite in game groups, this is nothing more than them coming out about it in the open. It is not like people have not known for a fact that FOR YEARS CCP has financially benefited and partnered with RMT sellers across the globe.
Hey, CCP "I" see you and have for the years since I reported that site that was selling EVERYTHING from the in game market for RL money and you did NOTHING to stop them.
I get it, why stop them when "them" is actually YOU.
Well played CCP...well played.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Bull, the thread was not closed because it was only offering an out of game method, it was closed because it was converting ISK to cash, exactly the same thing Somer does every single day. Can you prove that? If CCP bothers to clarify at all, what happens when their clarification is "Closed for TOS violation because there was no in-game method of participating in the lottery"? Whatever you BELIEVE the reason it was closed is irrelevant; until someone replicates Blink PRECISELY (and a purely in-game method of participation is a pretty huge part of that), there is absolutely no "scientific" value in these attempts to call out the double standard. If that happens, I start up a website offering in game methods as well as an out of game method through affiliation, and am happily able to convert isk to cash with full permission of CCP. If they really want to come back and clarify that the lack of an in-game payment method was the only reason they closed it, that's totally fine.
But lets face it, they aren't going to come back and open the floodgates to legal RMT are they? You can nitpick every detail of all of the threads being opened to copy Somer which get closed "for RMTing", but at the end of the day we all know why they are closing it. We don't even disagree with why they are closing it (You realise we don;t actually want RMT legalised right?). We just want them to force Somer to play by the same rules and they refuse to engage us in any form of dialog, or give us any announcements on the subject. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
834
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
posting in thread where people complain about company works "inside CCP system" because no one really understands what does it mean |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You can nitpick every detail of all of the threads being opened to copy Somer which get closed "for RMTing", but at the end of the day we all know why they are closing it. We don't even disagree with why they are closing it (You realise we don;t actually want RMT legalised right?). We just want them to force Somer to play by the same rules and they refuse to engage us in any form of dialog, or give us any announcements on the subject.
Edited my post you were quoting to clarify, but yes, we do need to nitpick every post until someone actually gets the technicalities correct. ONLY THEN will CCP be backed into a corner of being forced to admit that either 1) the method Blink uses for RMT is acceptable under the TOS or 2) that there is a double-standard and Blink is allowed to do it where others are not. If the goal is to force CCP into commenting on this issue, nitpicking the details is the only thing relevant to putting them in a position where they can no longer squirm their way out of admitting one or the other.
The "we all know why" argument is useless and won't accomplish anything but let CCP laugh at these threads and cause everyone else on GD to wonder where your tinfoil hat is. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Seems like the falcon jams hit really hard. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You can nitpick every detail of all of the threads being opened to copy Somer which get closed "for RMTing", but at the end of the day we all know why they are closing it. We don't even disagree with why they are closing it (You realise we don;t actually want RMT legalised right?). We just want them to force Somer to play by the same rules and they refuse to engage us in any form of dialog, or give us any announcements on the subject. Edited my post you were quoting to clarify, but yes, we do need to nitpick every post until someone actually gets the technicalities correct. ONLY THEN will CCP be backed into a corner of being forced to admit that either 1) the method Blink uses for RMT is acceptable under the TOS or 2) that there is a double-standard and Blink is allowed to do it where others are not. If the goal is to force CCP into commenting on this issue, nitpicking the details is the only thing relevant to putting them in a position where they can no longer squirm their way out of admitting one or the other. The "we all know why" argument is useless and won't accomplish anything but let CCP laugh at these threads and cause everyone else on GD to wonder where your tinfoil hat is. But they don't need to be backed into a corner. What you are saying is they can hand wave this with "oh they offer an in game method". Well that's fine, that will still be them telling us RMT is fine as long as we have an in game method to play. The point being they can't say that without repercussions. Really. Think about what they would be allowing if they stated that the reason Somer is allowed is because it's an in game lottery too. For starters, evalopolous, BIG, eohpoker, myevelotto, etc. All would be able to immediately start the same level of RMT. I'm a programmer. I could get a working lottery site up in under a day with the ability to accept in game or injected currency. And I'm certainly not the only one that could. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:David Kir wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? wait wait goon pets have voices? Oh so people still call coalition members pets? I thought that was last years fad. And if you haven't noticed I'm pretty vocal until now, you clearly don't read the forums enough. Go back under your bridge until you've got something relevant to add to the discussion.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784
"If you want to become an authorized ETC reseller, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected].
If you want to sponsor a tournament with real life money or prizes, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected] first, otherwise please refrain from such sponsorship."
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen? |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But they don't need to be backed into a corner. What you are saying is they can hand wave this with "oh they offer an in game method". Well that's fine, that will still be them telling us RMT is fine as long as we have an in game method to play. The point being they can't say that without repercussions. Really. Think about what they would be allowing if they stated that the reason Somer is allowed is because it's an in game lottery too. For starters, evalopolous, BIG, eohpoker, myevelotto, etc. All would be able to immediately start the same level of RMT. I'm a programmer. I could get a working lottery site up in under a day with the ability to accept in game or injected currency. And I'm certainly not the only one that could.
In none of my previous posts was I trying to argue whether they do or don't need to be backed into a corner. I'm informing the people that ARE trying to back them into a corner (with their lottery knock-off schemes designed for exactly that purpose) that they are doing a poor job of it.
That said, my personal opinion is that they DO need to be backed into a corner because the issue has reached the level of volatility where they simply cannot keep pretending it isn't something the community is going to force. But I'm also perfectly fine with the answer being the second option -- there is a double standard, Blink is allowed to do it, no one else is, deal with it. I have no problem with that being the final word on it, honestly. But I do think there needs to BE a final word. |
Na Und
Galactronics
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yeah I know, but if CCP don't have the decency to give us an answer then I don't see why I should stop re-posting threads that have already been posted. At the end of the day I'm going to continue until either they ban me, or they decide that perhaps addressing the concerns of their community is a good idea. Honestly, it's been going on long enough that I don't really care which anymore. I've got GTA V to play, and by the end of the year 2 shiny new consoles. I'm certainly not going to sit in silence while they discriminate against the rest of the community however.
You could've shortened your post simply by typing, "waah." |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
David Kir wrote:So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Except as far as I'm aware, that isn't true. Markee Dragon is an authorized ETC reseller and Blink has a private agreement with Markee Dragon for referral links. There is no agreement between Blink and CCP with regard to ETC sales at all; certainly no more than anyone else, and no different than the Nyx lottery's private affiliate link agreement with Shattered Crystal (also an authorized ETC reseller).
|
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
176
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
David Kir wrote:
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Actually Somer isn't on that list, if you bother to look, so "that" is pretty bad, and you're wrong.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
David Kir wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784 "If you want to become an authorized ETC reseller, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected]. If you want to sponsor a tournament with real life money or prizes, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected] first, otherwise please refrain from such sponsorship." So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP. How's that, second rate goonion citizen? lol, you are truly an epic genius. Somer are NOT an ETC reseller. Markee Dragon is an ETC reseller, of which Somer is an affiliate (so Some just links people to Markee and gets paid to do so). Now, If you read the thread that you and I have both linked, you'll read about "Shattered Crystal". They are also a registered ETC reseller. The OP of the other thread would be an affiliate of them, the same way Some is to markee.
So in short, what you posted was utter nonsense, written without taking the 60 seconds it would take to read and understand the relevant posts.
Try again. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
|
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:David Kir wrote:
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Actually Somer isn't on that list, if you bother to look, so "that" is pretty bad, and you're wrong.
No, youre wrong, as they obviously didnt get banned and therefor ARE an (in)official ETC reseller. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1449
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Na Und wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Yeah I know, but if CCP don't have the decency to give us an answer then I don't see why I should stop re-posting threads that have already been posted. At the end of the day I'm going to continue until either they ban me, or they decide that perhaps addressing the concerns of their community is a good idea. Honestly, it's been going on long enough that I don't really care which anymore. I've got GTA V to play, and by the end of the year 2 shiny new consoles. I'm certainly not going to sit in silence while they discriminate against the rest of the community however. You could've shortened your post simply by typing, "waah." Doesn't really have the same level of flare.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1449
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:18:00 -
[63] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:David Kir wrote:
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Actually Somer isn't on that list, if you bother to look, so "that" is pretty bad, and you're wrong. No, youre wrong, as they obviously didnt get banned and therefor ARE an (in)official ETC reseller. Erm no, they really really aren't. They are an affiliate. Anyone can be an affiliate of an ETC reseller, that's up to the reseller, not CCP. Somer don;t sell the ETC, thus are not subject to the ETC sales rules. But then neither would the OP of the linked post be. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
445
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
I guess this is one of this moments where CCP is looking what the players do and not what they say...
This is going on for weeks now, If they where discussing that issue internally we would have an answer by now. They are just waiting and hoping that this will die off in the end. But how long has CCP to wait until you all go silent? Do we really have to wait until Fanfest when someone asks them point blank on the live stream? I don't hope so, but that hope is evaporating fast.
I fear if people are not willing to show them (again) over the wallet how sincere they are, we will never get an answer. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Actually Somer isn't on that list, if you bother to look, so "that" is pretty bad, and you're wrong.
No, youre wrong, as they obviously didnt get banned and therefor ARE an (in)official ETC reseller.
By that logic I'm an official ETC reseller too. No thanks. I'll stick to my definition of official ETC resellers, which is to look at the actual list of official ETC resellers which has been posted in this thread multiple times and includes neither me nor Somer. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1449
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:I guess this is one of this moments where CCP is looking what the players do and not what they say...
This is going on for weeks now, If they where discussing that issue internally we would have an answer by now. They are just waiting and hoping that this will die off in the end. But how long has CCP to wait until you all go silent? Do we really have to wait until Fanfest when someone asks them point blank on the live stream? I don't hope so, but that hope is evaporating fast.
I fear if people are not willing to show them (again) over the wallet how sincere they are, we will never get an answer. If they don't answer, then yes, this will continue until CCP give a definitive answer one way or the other. Once that answer is given, that's no promise it will all end, but they need to respond to their community. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:David Kir wrote:
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Actually Somer isn't on that list, if you bother to look, so "that" is pretty bad, and you're wrong. No, youre wrong, as they obviously didnt get banned and therefor ARE an (in)official ETC reseller. Erm no, they really really aren't. They are an affiliate. Anyone can be an affiliate of an ETC reseller, that's up to the reseller, not CCP. Somer don;t sell the ETC, thus are not subject to the ETC sales rules. But then neither would the OP of the linked post be.
And because the thread linked in OP was locked with
Quote:If you want to become an authorized ETC reseller, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected]. as one of the reasons/advices listed and SOMER getting 30 Ishukone Scorpions instead of the same treatment I guess they are resellers.
excuse my bad english |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:lol, you are truly an epic genius. Somer are NOT an ETC reseller. Markee Dragon is an ETC reseller, of which Somer is an affiliate (so Some just links people to Markee and gets paid to do so). Now, If you read the thread that you and I have both linked, you'll read about "Shattered Crystal". They are also a registered ETC reseller. The OP of the other thread would be an affiliate of them, the same way Some is to markee.
So in short, what you posted was utter nonsense, written without taking the 60 seconds it would take to read and understand the relevant posts.
Try again.
I am indeed utterly wrong and I stand corrected, as Somer obviously isn't on that list. I shouldn't drink and post.
But say, why do you think Somer hasn't been banhammered yet?
CCP clearly knows about their business, and is still allowing them to do their thing.
This is still CCP's game, and they're free to do whatever they like with it. They're also free to support whatever organizations they might want to, be it Somer or Brazzers or some sud-american drug cartel.
We already have PLEX aka authorized RMT, why couldn't CCP authorize another such form of business?
Do they have internal policy transparency rules?
Do they owe you something?
Short answer: no. Long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Don't like it? You're free to unsub and make your feelings matter.
EDIT(I almost forgot the obligatory goon bashing): So when are you getting evacced to free some renter space? |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
David Kir wrote:
I am indeed utterly wrong and I stand corrected, as Somer obviously isn't on that list. I shouldn't drink and post.
*irrelevant questions and facts which are obviously true to everyone omitted for brevity*
So, you admit that you are wrong and Lucas is right, and that you should stop posting... amazing, a debate which was actually resolved with the party in the wrong admitting it, on EVE-O forums.
|
Meizu Kho
Kho Incorporated
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
David Kir wrote:
But say, why do you think Somer hasn't been banhammered yet?
CCP clearly knows about their business, and is still allowing them to do their thing.
This is still CCP's game, and they're free to do whatever they like with it. They're also free to support whatever organizations they might want to, be it Somer or Brazzers or some sud-american drug cartel.
Sure, ccp is free to do whatever they want, they can give out T2 BPO's to some players or alliances if they like aswell. but if they do, i think they should be open and honnest about it and tell it to our face. This discussion deserves an answer. |
|
David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
So, you admit that you are wrong and Lucas is right, and that you should stop posting... amazing, a debate which was actually resolved with the party in the wrong admitting it, on EVE-O forums.
O fine red wine, thou breath of autumn's being Thou, from whose alcoholic presence the stupidity Is driven, like life from an EVE player fleeing...
|
Good Posting
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:I guess this is one of this moments where CCP is looking what the players do and not what they say...
This is going on for weeks now, If they where discussing that issue internally we would have an answer by now. They are just waiting and hoping that this will die off in the end. But how long has CCP to wait until you all go silent? Do we really have to wait until Fanfest when someone asks them point blank on the live stream? I don't hope so, but that hope is evaporating fast.
I fear if people are not willing to show them (again) over the wallet how sincere they are, we will never get an answer.
Yeah, don't worry, this month i will pay with cash to CCP because there is no way on Earth that i'm going to give 1.8 bill to a random player because he wants a Nyx-LolFit Vindicator-whatever without effort. Effort, a word that many people use here conveniently and always according to their arguments.
Ah, do you mean the Somer issue? I don't give a damn.
|
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:42:00 -
[73] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
So, you admit that you are wrong and Lucas is right, and that you should stop posting... amazing, a debate which was actually resolved with the party in the wrong admitting it, on EVE-O forums.
O fine red wine, thou breath of autumn's being Thou, from whose alcoholic presence the stupidity Is driven, like life from an EVE player fleeing...
Ironically, the poet whom you are mangling there, Percy Bysshe Shelley, advocated total abstinence from alcohol, regarding "fermented liquors, as slow, but certain poisons. "
Carry on. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2761
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:47:00 -
[74] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
CCP has made it pretty clear they will not answer any direct questions about this, at least not until they can figure out some convoluted way to spin it to be positive for players. So, enjoy your upcoming survey and locked threads, and keep buying PLEX!
+1 for Animal Farm
|
David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote: Ironically, the poet whom you are mangling there, Percy Bysshe Shelley, advocated total abstinence from alcohol, regarding "fermented liquors, as slow, but certain poisons. " Carry on.
I likewise advocate the right to "mangle" any poet's works as I most like.
EDITx2: do you happen to be a poetry reader? |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
So what you and others are saying is that for SOMER to be legit they should stop offering free blink credit for GTC sales linked through from their site?
ie no incentive to go through them?
And then that's OK? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1454
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
David Kir wrote:But say, why do you think Somer hasn't been banhammered yet?
CCP clearly knows about their business, and is still allowing them to do their thing.
This is still CCP's game, and they're free to do whatever they like with it. They're also free to support whatever organizations they might want to, be it Somer or Brazzers or some sud-american drug cartel.
We already have PLEX aka authorized RMT, why couldn't CCP authorize another such form of business?
Do they have internal policy transparency rules?
Do they owe you something?
Short answer: no. Long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Don't like it? You're free to unsub and make your feelings matter.
EDIT(I almost forgot the obligatory goon bashing): So when are you getting evacced to free some renter space? They haven't got banhammered because the rules put on everyone else aren't being put on them. And yes, it's CCPs game and they can do what they want. but we, as CCPs customers not only have the right, but we have the obligation to raise our concerns and demand an answer. At this point in time, I'm not at the stage where I'd consider unsubbing, though I am reducing my number of accounts. Other have totally unsubbed though, and in honesty, it wouldn't take too much more of a push to get me gone. CCP have to compete with other games coming out the same as any other company. The more customers they lose, the easier it is for us remaining here to make the decision to quit. But at the end of the day, CCP shouldn't be letting it get to the stage where all we want is communication and they are pushing people to quit with their refusal to even acknowledge our concerns.
As for the evac, who knows, if ever. I'll go with the always popular SoonGäó. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1455
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
samualvimes wrote:So what you and others are saying is that for SOMER to be legit they should stop offering free blink credit for GTC sales linked through from their site?
ie no incentive to go through them?
And then that's OK? Yes, exactly. Though CCP should clarify in their EULA that no receiving of cash for any form of credit which can in turn be raffled or exchanged for isk or in-game items is allowed. Just to prevent anyone else coming up with a similar scheme. Obviously all lawyered out and such.
But to be honest, if CCP came back and said: "Our official statement is: We do what we want, Somer can do this, you can't, so **** you!" That would still be better than the absolutely nothing they are saying now. They addressed the fact that they gave Somer stuff, and that's fine, but they haven't addressed the RMT issues. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
David Kir wrote:
I likewise advocate the right to "mangle" any poet's works as I most like.
Non sequitur. And completely offtopic to the thread, for the double victory. Do you also think that the prohibition of offtopic posting on private forums such as these is an affront to your free speech?
Just to reiterate, you're talking about your free speech rights as an evasion tactic, because you find it hard to deal with the fact that the OP is correct in every particular, and because you are distraught that quoting a dev post which actually proves you wrong, combined with constant insults towards goons, was not an effective means of making a reasonable argument.
Like most people who are upset with this situation, I'm upset not because I can't handle the rules, but because they aren't be equally applied. If Somer and certain others are allowed to run that type of business, but I'm not, arbitrarily, then yes, I would unsubscribe. Unsubscribing without giving CCP a chance to rectify the situation would be childish; as is suggesting that others unsubscribe as a first resort.
Quote:EDITx2: do you happen to be a poetry reader?
So it would appear. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:24:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:samualvimes wrote:So what you and others are saying is that for SOMER to be legit they should stop offering free blink credit for GTC sales linked through from their site?
ie no incentive to go through them?
And then that's OK? Yes, exactly. Though CCP should clarify in their EULA that no receiving of cash for any form of credit which can in turn be raffled or exchanged for isk or in-game items is allowed. Just to prevent anyone else coming up with a similar scheme. Obviously all lawyered out and such. But to be honest, if CCP came back and said: "Our official statement is: We do what we want, Somer can do this, you can't, so **** you!" That would still be better than the absolutely nothing they are saying now. They addressed the fact that they gave Somer stuff, and that's fine, but they haven't addressed the RMT issues.
The EULA already clearly outlaws this, they just aren't applying it. |
|
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:28:00 -
[81] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:but they haven't addressed the RMT issues.
Addressing those issues would require them to come clean about their long standing connections to the various EVE RMT sellers that have been operating FOR YEARS, which has provided CCP with additional revenue streams.
Let's face it, they are not going to address this because it would mean cutting off their RMT business partners. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1455
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ghost Phius wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:but they haven't addressed the RMT issues. Addressing those issues would require them to come clean about their long standing connections to the various EVE RMT sellers that have been operating FOR YEARS, which has provided CCP with additional revenue streams. Let's face it, they are not going to address this because it would mean cutting off their RMT business partners. Then in that case, they can expect thread after thread of this for the next ever. And questions at fanfest. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
Oh lawdy some numbers about Somer |
adarma
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:44:00 -
[84] - Quote
This is pretty shocking! |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:59:00 -
[85] - Quote
Now Im jealous |
Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints Circle-Of-Two
419
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
Everyone knows why. The question is what is anybody going to do about it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1057
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:06:00 -
[87] - Quote
Close Somer, now. The Tears Must Flow |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
136
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Close Somer, now.
Give them Guardian Vexors and Gold Magnates |
Prince Kobol
1062
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
Now all we need is for the major alliances to setup there own referral scheme to earn some major money |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:14:00 -
[90] - Quote
wow. at this point, the only fair solution is to ban somer. no warnings, no cease and desist... just straight up banhammer for massive RMT |
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David Kir
Statement of Intent
302
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Non sequitur. And completely offtopic to the thread, for the double victory. Do you also think that the prohibition of offtopic posting on private forums such as these is an affront to your free speech? Just to reiterate, you're talking about your free speech rights as an evasion tactic, because you find it hard to deal with the fact that the OP is correct in every particular, and because you are distraught that quoting a dev post which actually proves you wrong, combined with constant insults towards goons, was not an effective means of making a reasonable argument. Quote:EDITx2: do you happen to be a poetry reader? So it would appear.
Errr... no. I'm talking about my free speech righs because I am drunk and I am willing to do so. It isn't a non sequitur, it's an answer pertinent to your last post. Those mangled verses, those were a non sequitur. Your statement of Shelley's anti-alcohol stance is equally off-topic, yet this doesn't undermine its validity.
Besides, this is OP's answer to my last on-topic post:
"At this point in time, I'm not at the stage where I'd consider unsubbing, though I am reducing my number of accounts. Other have totally unsubbed though, and in honesty, it wouldn't take too much more of a push to get me gone. CCP have to compete with other games coming out the same as any other company. The more customers they lose, the easier it is for us remaining here to make the decision to quit. But at the end of the day, CCP shouldn't be letting it get to the stage where all we want is communication and they are pushing people to quit with their refusal to even acknowledge our concerns.
As for the evac, who knows, if ever. I'll go with the always popular SoonGäó."
He clearly acknowledges CCP's rights to act as they please, so it seems that I am correct in at least ONE particular.
Telling him to unsub isn't childis at all, it's a good advice. People unsubbed after Inncarna, things got better.
Yes, rules aren't equally applied: so what? As said, CCP does as CCP wants.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17157
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:22:00 -
[92] - Quote
Largely because Somer doesn't really check any of the boxes for why RMT is bad, so the incentive to go after them is low, even without taking into account any of the income they might generate for CCPGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2470
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Quote:21. Posting regarding RMT (Real Money Trading) is prohibited.
Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited. Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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