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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1249
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
To answer the question in the thread title:
"Be the Villain". That's why. I can't be the villain by making ships. I can't be the villain by munching on roids day in day out. I certainly can't be the villain with science and invention.
I can, however, be the villain by killing other people.
Also, this thread delivers. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4893
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Atlantis Fuanan wrote:He is so right! I always look at these blob-ganks stuff and think ... where are you balls? PVP in this game seems to have a different meaning every other has in mind: Instead of having a skilled competition who is the best pilot (SP and skill-wise) it's nearly only number-based factors that decide an outcome of a PVP-Fight. Also this attitude of people just going for every f*ing kill is so poor. I wonder if these people really feel that awesome if they manage to gank a miner (Oh yes, it was a very hard and intense fight) or just blob another group (It was a balanced fight, wasn't it?). But this results ofcourse of the lack of PVP in general. Some people WANT to shoot stuff, but there is no incentive to go for smaller fights as loosing ships seems to be a real pain for even the pvp-dedicated players. So instead they pick up their buddies (which is good) and go to hunt everything, even solo, not dangerous ships (which is just poor). I wonder, so many people seem to be having billions of ISK on their wallets, why are so few people not ready to throw in some pricey ships and just have a skilled fight? Are people really just about to have their Killcounter go up like in any FPS? I know, right? Like those 100-man fleets in curse. They were just sitting off the test staging systems with drones assigned and that was about it for you if you undocked. Excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't instaundockwarps go past any bubbles on grid in front of the undock? There's a certain distance bubbles can be dropped next to the station? You can drop bubbles right on the undock.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations CODE.
1818
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:15:00 -
[63] - Quote
If people stop blowing up ships, the value of minerals will decrease and miners won't be able to make any profit so they will quit the game. By blowing up miners, you're actually doing them a favour. Oh god. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4119
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:16:00 -
[64] - Quote
Quote:You mean on to selected others, right? Because judging from recent kills all it takes is fitting a point and both you and him would not engage. Whose recent kills? In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this, although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force.
I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example. Bringing myself into this would just scream bias.
Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination.
How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on?
As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example) force is projected successfully... no? |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
The answer why is simple. Because some of us derive fun from looting other players. You enjoy running that site did you? Good because if I catch you I will enjoy opening your wreck. Simple as that.
EVE is pvp you just seem to think it isn't. Your wrong. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4893
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Quote:You mean on to selected others, right? Because judging from recent kills all it takes is fitting a point and both you and him would not engage. Whose recent kills? In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this, although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force. I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example. Bringing myself into this would just scream bias. Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination. How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on? As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example) force is projected successfully... no? Ask Harry Forever There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
391
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
For OP: 1. Aion is that way ------> 2. I can haz your stuff? 3. Why we violence your boat? Because you were there, and we needed to express ourselves. 4. PvP is fun 5. HTFU "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4119
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:If people stop blowing up ships, the value of minerals will decrease and miners won't be able to make any profit so they will quit the game. By blowing up miners, you're actually doing them a favour. Sorry, but that's highly inaccurate. The income of miners is always the same, except in periods of bigger price changes.
When mineral prices increase, everything dependent on mineral prices gets more expensive and vice versa. Miners pretty much always earn the same value.
That said, you are still right, because most people aren't aware of this fact. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4119
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Quote:You mean on to selected others, right? Because judging from recent kills all it takes is fitting a point and both you and him would not engage. Whose recent kills? In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this, although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force. I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example. Bringing myself into this would just scream bias. Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination. How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on? As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example) force is projected successfully... no? Ask Harry Forever Oh come on! You can't seriously put Harry on the same page as Kane or myself...
I know i'm not active anymore, but still... |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Quote:You mean on to selected others, right? Because judging from recent kills all it takes is fitting a point and both you and him would not engage. Whose recent kills? In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this, although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force. I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example. Bringing myself into this would just scream bias. Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination. How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on? As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example) force is projected successfully... no? Can't call it unsuccessful, however not very far-reaching as getting someone to apologize bears little consequence for the rest of us. We have also wondered far off the topic about how eve combat pvp is held in too high regard for what it in practice. |
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Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:For OP: 1. Aion is that way ------> 2. I can haz your stuff? 3. Why we violence your boat? Because you were there, and we needed to express ourselves. 4. PvP is fun 5. HTFU 1. No spaceships in it 2. You probably can't even fly most of my stuff 3. ? 4. Compared to what? Other things in eve or other games? Because this is kind of the point of the thread. 5. My shrink strongly advises me against taking any more space-viagra then I already do. |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
250
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
Freakdevil wrote:Your wrong.
quoted for trooth. freelance space bum |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1028
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Possibly one of the best, well thought out, and reasonable requests for a button in the esc menu that allows you to go back to WoW.
Full of win, The Tears Must Flow |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Possibly one of the best, well thought out, and reasonable requests for a button in the esc menu that allows you to go back to WoW. Full of win, I don't think Blizzard would need or pay for such endorsement. However eve forums would benefit from people having to read the post before making comments on it. Obviously since in many cases to determine this would take more processing power then is needed to run jita we would only run it when poster has a track record of saying something about "harvesting tears" or "can I have your stuff" for example. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4119
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:52:00 -
[75] - Quote
Enduros wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Quote:You mean on to selected others, right? Because judging from recent kills all it takes is fitting a point and both you and him would not engage. Whose recent kills? In case you're talking about me... I was deliberately not bringing myself into this, although i have examples of my own that would show that single individuals can project a lot of force. I picked Kane, because he's a pretty (pun intended xD) example. Bringing myself into this would just scream bias. Force projection usually is about selected others, unless one achieves world domination. How does it matter who or how many the force is projected on? As long as single people can make groups of people apologize publicly (as example) force is projected successfully... no? Can't call it unsuccessful, however not very far-reaching as getting someone to apologize bears little consequence for the rest of us. We have also wondered far off the topic about how eve combat pvp is held in too high regard for what it in practice. Derailing the thread wasn't my intention and i apologize if i did so.
Thanks Alavaria for the response, btw. |
Nick Starkey
Exiled Kings SCUM.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:57:00 -
[76] - Quote
The reason the game is mostly refered to as a pvp centric game is because the game is all around interacting with others, and pvp tends to be the most impactful way to do it. That's all there is to it, really. PvP in this game is mostly about player knowledge and experience and very little about actual mechanical skill (basically, knowing when you have an advantage and when you don't). Everyone knows that, but hates to admit it.
If you think about it, it's not that much different from dota. Although that game is much more rich in terms of strategy/metagame and mechanical factor, the goal is stil the same. Acquire resources, and know when is the best time for using them, and prevent enemies from getting them. What really matters (and sets the pros appart) are your decisions and teamwork, not the ability to press 2 buttons and kill someone, because engaging is all about pondering your odds and making right decisions that put you on top. Same deal with pvp in eve, or any FFA kind of PVP. The execution part is pretty much trivial. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
393
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:02:00 -
[77] - Quote
Enduros wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:For OP: 1. Aion is that way ------> 2. I can haz your stuff? 3. Why we violence your boat? Because you were there, and we needed to express ourselves. 4. PvP is fun 5. HTFU 1. No spaceships in it 2. You probably can't even fly most of my stuff 3. ? 4. Compared to what? Other things in eve or other games? Because this is kind of the point of the thread. 5. My shrink strongly advises me against taking any more space-viagra then I already do.
1. No, but does have "PvP by mutual consent, only" according to my last girlfriend. 2. Unless you're packing carriers and Titans, or Indy ships, I can fly almost everything you can. 3. It meant exactly what it said. 4. Compared to nothing. That wasn't a comparative statement. It was an opinion-based statement with no caveats. 5. That doesn't mean you should be as soft as the inside of a space twinkie, though.
(if you can't see my humor, I feel bad for you) We are all Chribba's alts. EVE life begins and ends with Chribba. So saith the wise Nu. |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nick Starkey wrote:The reason the game is mostly refered to as a pvp centric game is because the game is all around interacting with others, and pvp tends to be the most impactful way to do it. That's all there is to it, really. PvP in this game is mostly about player knowledge and experience and very little about actual mechanical skill (basically, knowing when you have an advantage and when you don't). Everyone knows that, but hates to admit it.
If you think about it, it's not that much different from dota. Although that game is much more rich in terms of strategy/metagame and mechanical factor, the goal is stil the same. Acquire resources, and know when is the best time for using them, and prevent enemies from getting them. What really matters (and sets the pros appart) are your decisions and teamwork, not the ability to press 2 buttons and kill someone, because engaging is all about pondering your odds and making right decisions that put you on top. Same deal with pvp in eve, or any FFA kind of PVP. The execution part is pretty much trivial.
The trivial execution part is exactly what I'm talking about. And how it compares to other games. In most cases the outcome is already known because one side was more prepared then the other. If you aren't prepared and you get caught the outcome is a wreck. It's very grand when you look at the big picture, but down in the details not so much because very much of it happens before the fight even begins. |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Enduros wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:For OP: 1. Aion is that way ------> 2. I can haz your stuff? 3. Why we violence your boat? Because you were there, and we needed to express ourselves. 4. PvP is fun 5. HTFU 1. No spaceships in it 2. You probably can't even fly most of my stuff 3. ? 4. Compared to what? Other things in eve or other games? Because this is kind of the point of the thread. 5. My shrink strongly advises me against taking any more space-viagra then I already do. 1. No, but does have "PvP by mutual consent, only" according to my last girlfriend. 2. Unless you're packing carriers and Titans, or Indy ships, I can fly almost everything you can. 3. It meant exactly what it said. 4. Compared to nothing. That wasn't a comparative statement. It was an opinion-based statement with no caveats. 5. That doesn't mean you should be as soft as the inside of a space twinkie, though. (if you can't see my humor, I feel bad for you)
I have never said I don't like PvP. What I said was there is so much more to it then just the F1 act of PvP, without which you couldn't even have the PvP you speak of. And my point was that PvP is held in too high regard while everything else seems to draw ridicule as if it's the best measuring stick. Best example would be logi pilots. When you fly logi you do far more work yet it goes completely undocumented. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG! |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1249
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:39:00 -
[81] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG!
Actually, they recently came out with some research that shows that soybeans when used as a primary source of protein, may be a significant carcinogen.
So it's the veg-heads that are doing it wrong.
I'll tell you a secret, though. It's usually the loudest and whiniest ones who you can reasonably assume are automatically wrong. That's why I'm a ganker, in fact, I got tired of the vocal complaining and, vitriol and vehemence of the carebear community. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG! Actually, they recently came out with some research that shows that soybeans when used as a primary source of protein, may be a significant carcinogen. Not to mention the plants you need for your vegan diet don't even grow in most climates. The resource drain to even enable you to survive a vegan diet with all the supplements you need I imagine are far more taxing on the environment then raising livestock. As for the ethical part... well nature is neither good nor evil, it's neutral. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
844
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
its not about shooting people, its about shooting goons... ... |
Enduros
Ostian Industries Hand of Despair
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:58:00 -
[84] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:its not about shooting people, its about shooting goons... Don't we need to post your name 3 times in a row for you to show up? |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
253
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 21:00:00 -
[85] - Quote
Enduros wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG! Actually, they recently came out with some research that shows that soybeans when used as a primary source of protein, may be a significant carcinogen. Not to mention the plants you need for your vegan diet don't even grow in most climates. The resource drain to even enable you to survive a vegan diet with all the supplements you need I imagine are far more taxing on the environment then raising livestock. As for the ethical part... well nature is neither good nor evil, it's neutral.
err... much of the food we eat isn't grown in our climate (depending on where that is, in the US maybe you've got it all). and the energy, fresh water and water treatment demands of livestock farming are significant.
not that i'm vegan but it's funny how defensive eating vegetables makes people. freelance space bum |
No Means No
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 21:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
Didnt read. |
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 21:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG! You are right and wrong at the same time. Unlike non sandbox games where crafting/industrial activities are just sidelines and most of the economy is driven by NPC's, Here in Eve you are always competing against other players and NPC have a much lower influence on the market. Miners have to compete against other miners to get the ore first, and then get the best price for those ores. If you manufacture you are always in price competition with other players to find the best market and to set the best price. In a broad definition it is PvP. Is it Pure PvP combat? Debatable. Just like ganking miners. I just cant see ganking as being PvP combat. Its maybe a 6 mouse button click operation. 1. warp to belt 2. lock on to mining ship 3. overload racks 4. fire guns 5. activate Warp disruptor (optional) 6. watch mining ship go pop. Lets face reality here, mission rats provide more of a challenge. Having said that, I do not want to eliminate gankers. They add danger to what would otherwise be grinding out isk. Like other posters talk about the heart rate increase when they hit gate camp, the same goes for when any Cata or T1 cruiser enters a belt. there is an increase in heart rate wondering if that pilot is out ratting or if they are eyeballing my ship for a target. What I would like to see changed is for miner to have a reasonable option to occasionally turn the tables on the gankers. One that doesnt involve a second ship doing the mind numbing task of sitting cloaked 3k away from the mining ship waiting on the off chance a ganker does show up. Something that doesnt make ganking impossible or even all that dangerous, but just enough to make them worry every time they start to warp in on their target. Its all about Risk vs Reward isnt it? ( losing a cheap fit Cata or T1 cruiser to Concord is not a risk, it is the cost of doing business, since it happens every time.)
Your comparison to Vegans though is spot on |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
469
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 23:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
Gargep Farrow wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:The pvp is pretty cool and all, but it isn't what EVE, or any sandbox ever, are supposed to be all about. These folk who treat the sandbox no differently than some online FPS remind me so much of some self-righteous vegans and their dogmatic hold that even though our species [human] are omnivore, everyone touching meat is just DOING IT WRONG! You are right and wrong at the same time. Unlike non sandbox games where crafting/industrial activities are just sidelines and most of the economy is driven by NPC's, Here in Eve you are always competing against other players and NPC have a much lower influence on the market. Miners have to compete against other miners to get the ore first, and then get the best price for those ores. If you manufacture you are always in price competition with other players to find the best market and to set the best price. In a broad definition it is PvP. Is it Pure PvP combat? Debatable. Just like ganking miners. I just cant see ganking as being PvP combat. Its maybe a 6 mouse button click operation. 1. warp to belt 2. lock on to mining ship 3. overload racks 4. fire guns 5. activate Warp disruptor (optional) 6. watch mining ship go pop. Lets face reality here, mission rats provide more of a challenge. Having said that, I do not want to eliminate gankers. They add danger to what would otherwise be grinding out isk. Like other posters talk about the heart rate increase when they hit gate camp, the same goes for when any Cata or T1 cruiser enters a belt. there is an increase in heart rate wondering if that pilot is out ratting or if they are eyeballing my ship for a target. What I would like to see changed is for miner to have a reasonable option to occasionally turn the tables on the gankers. One that doesnt involve a second ship doing the mind numbing task of sitting cloaked 3k away from the mining ship waiting on the off chance a ganker does show up. Something that doesnt make ganking impossible or even all that dangerous, but just enough to make them worry every time they start to warp in on their target. Its all about Risk vs Reward isnt it? ( losing a cheap fit Cata or T1 cruiser to Concord is not a risk, it is the cost of doing business, since it happens every time.) Your comparison to Vegans though is spot on
Thing is though if miners did have a fighting chance of seeing off gankers, they wouldn't get ganked. This says a lot more about gankers than miners, who are eves real carebears as there is no risk to what they do. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
173
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 00:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
In the long run every eve player is a carebear in some way, Players do like to deny it but in a sense we all do things that are relative to being a carebear. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
790
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 00:11:00 -
[90] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:its not about shooting people, its about shooting goons...
quoted for truth
also, where can i get in one of these fleets where all i have to do is mash f1?
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