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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
603
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:50:00 -
[691] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
This strongly favors large groups, while impacting the ability of small groups to bother the larger ones.
Bad call. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1725
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:51:00 -
[692] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:mynnna wrote:
Except even in that case there is material destroyed. You lose twelve percent of your mined output, PERIOD, no matter what. So if someone drops one of these before I leave for work, I get punished for having a job. If they do it before I go to sleep, I get punished for sleeping. Or hell, if they live in AUTZ and I'm in USTZ I get punished just because they're in a different timezone. The theft isn't irrecoverable, but the destruction is.
Flip that around? What if you live in AUTZ and they live in USTZ. They spend 100m to drop 10 of these in a system, and log out to go to bed. You log in, check your POS's, blap the 10 siphons before they have a chance to do anything. Then isn't it him getting punished for different timezone and sleeping? What if he drops them before going to work but you have that day off, and you blap the siphons before they have a chance to do anything but he isn't going to notice for at least 10 hours or so. Is he getting punished for having a job? There are multiple situations in EVE currently where people can get unlucky with timing based on having RL issues or commitments. So guess what.
I personally would have used the HTFU Video One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
603
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:55:00 -
[693] - Quote
ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17029
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:57:00 -
[694] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Let me know what you think. I think I still want to know what the design goal behind making the API lie is.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Pirate Nation.
127
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:58:00 -
[695] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
How about waste at 0-5%, on a random basis, more than that and it creates supply issues which certain busy bees will profit from.
I don't like the idea of character limits, it feels too restraining, its like making corp owned POCO's in hisec still protected by CONCORD, half baked basically...
If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space,-áand those people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local,-álight a cyno and try jumping to it.-á-á There is a structural issue with Eve, based on accounts with no link, vast reserves of ISK-áand plex, which makes it too easy to metagame the destruction of small alliances. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5329
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:58:00 -
[696] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think. Those don't actually address any of the balance issues that were raised with these and I have no idea why those two are the response to feedback. The biggest issue is cost. |
IamBeastx
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
189
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:02:00 -
[697] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
4 per skill level maybe in future add a specialized skill
Limit numbers allowable on the same grid (ie: 300 of these on a POS with bubbles deployed would become a great catch and de-cloak exploit)
Make waste factor based on skills as well, if people seriously want to use these a quick skill train will help the wastage distaste.
All my life i wanted to be someone, now i know i should have been more specific. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1123
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:04:00 -
[698] - Quote
Quote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
As long as these things can be killed at any time, 20% is fine
Quote: b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
strongly favors large groups, BAD idea, really bad We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
352
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:06:00 -
[699] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Speedkermit Damo wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote: Time to scrap moon mining then!
Moon mining is not, and has never been, a good kind of gameplay mechanic. At least not whiles it's AFK passive income. Moon mining should be something a player has to get into a ship and undock for. Please explain to me how you take a moon from someone without undocking? POSes are not passive income. POSes are PvP income. The only one CCP currently provides.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1974
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:15:00 -
[700] - Quote
Good change. A region full of moons takes hundreds of people and thousands of man-hours to conquer. One person should not be able to hamper that by dropping a couple siphons per moon over the course of a few hours. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:16:00 -
[701] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Good change. A region full of moons takes hundreds of people and thousands of man-hours to conquer. One person should not be able to hamper that by dropping a couple siphons per moon over the course of a few hours.
lol... |
Ereshgikal
Pigs and Sows
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:16:00 -
[702] - Quote
CCP Tuxford wrote:Two step wrote:Sounds pretty neat. One issue: Using the API, people can tell when stuff is missing from silos. Has this been thought about? Yes we did. We do track how much is siphoned from what and where it would end up and the API then reports those numbers. It's a bit evil abusing the API in this way but I think it's for the good of the feature.
Yes, why should we be able to use the API. :facepalm:
So, let's say I have the following setup:
silo -> reactor -> silo -> silo
My guess is that the API-tomfoolery you are doing only looks at the silo right after the reactor. So if I use the API to check the last silo..perhaps it would work anyway.
Or those running complex reactors will notice the decreased output in the complex silo.
So, CCP messing with the API is just stupid since there will probably be ways around it. |
XavierVE
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
217
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:17:00 -
[703] - Quote
Quote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
Terrible idea. The waste factor is a good way to grief an AFK Empire POS owner in deep space. Even if you can't come and empty the Siphon safely, you're still able to potentially destabilize the AFK Empire POS owners income just by wastage alone.
20% is a good mark to have it at. 25% would be even better. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:18:00 -
[704] - Quote
CCP Tuxford wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:CCP Tuxford wrote:Two step wrote:Sounds pretty neat. One issue: Using the API, people can tell when stuff is missing from silos. Has this been thought about? Yes we did. We do track how much is siphoned from what and where it would end up and the API then reports those numbers. It's a bit evil abusing the API in this way but I think it's for the good of the feature. Will a player or program, using the API, be able to tell if a siphon is on their POS or not? Not. The API will lie about the content. Sorry thought that was clear.
Was not clear...
I read that the other way too! So glad these won't be dead on arrival...
A really nifty structure to keep those big moon farming alliances in check! And by that I mean challenging their passive income to match what they can realistically defend. I approve!
|
Miner Hottie
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:19:00 -
[705] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
a) is neither here nor there, wastage factors only effect those who empty the siphon, nominally the deployer but arguably anyone, including the POS owner, i note few have complained about it in this thread, ergo, no one really cares.
b) a marginal improvement, it won't stop an army of alts deploying them.
Your answer fails to address issues of balance.
The modules should be bigger, over 200m3, they should not fit in an interceptor. In their current form they are near risk free for the griefers who can load several of them up in a nulli interceptor and blast past defensive gate camps with near impunity.
Cost, 10m isk is too low and will merely encourage the Goons to spam them across regions of space, using the above nulli interceptors.
API false reporting, this idea is pants on head and set on fire level ******** especially with all the talk about the new Crest API, why go make a game mechanic to **** it up? Talk about the left hand not talking to the right hand.
Meanwhile, are any Devs working on improvements to POS mechanics and interface? It's all about how hot my mining lasers get. |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:22:00 -
[706] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
A limit per character looks fine for me. However, changing the wastage from 20 to 10 could make the difference between an effective harassing tool, or just a little annoyance. Be it 20% please |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1974
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:22:00 -
[707] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:mynnna wrote:Good change. A region full of moons takes hundreds of people and thousands of man-hours to conquer. One person should not be able to hamper that by dropping a couple siphons per moon over the course of a few hours. lol...
The tears from the small groupers just means CCP is on the right track.
You know, to borrow the logic of those same small groupers from earlier in the thread. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:24:00 -
[708] - Quote
People are worried that some dudes alt in a NPC corp will just fly around dropping these.
Makes sense. I'd make some suggesting changes.
1) anchoring 5 (yes I know it doesn't require you to anchor it, but this does remove the whole day 1 bios mass alt from flying around dropping these everywhere) 2) requires non-NPC corp. I thought about it requiring roles but that wouldn't work. It should be corp based equipment, and not be droppable by a char in a NPC corporation. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Derka McDerk
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:24:00 -
[709] - Quote
What the siphon in my eyes does is just make t2 production harder and more expensive with the waste %. The currently run monopoly will get griefed leading to less moongoo which in turn increases prices of all t2 production. The whole monopoly being run by a select few... Newer players will suffer the consequences the hardest.
The whole monopoly and price increase scenario doesnt look good. So tell me again, why is there no moongoo in highsec? Dont give me that bittervet hurpadurp carebear highsec **** please. Everyone wishing ot take part in t2 production should have a way of doing so, not having to fully rely on null alliances for either production or rentals. Spreading out minerals for all sec status zones would mean: less reliance on nullsec production. Prices would settle down instead of skyrocket. R64 could be near to non existent in highsec, still giving null some edge over high. PI already exists in all areas and poco changes are coming to highsec, so why not bring moon mining to highsec as well? |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:24:00 -
[710] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:mynnna wrote:Good change. A region full of moons takes hundreds of people and thousands of man-hours to conquer. One person should not be able to hamper that by dropping a couple siphons per moon over the course of a few hours. lol... The tears from the small groupers just means CCP is on the right track. You know, to borrow the logic of those same small groupers from earlier in the thread.
In fairness I personally can't lose either way. |
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Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
407
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:25:00 -
[711] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed.
Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income.
|
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
608
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:26:00 -
[712] - Quote
Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income.
If you don't realize they have the people, budget, time and Will to siphon every moon they don't personally own, just for lulz, you are sorely underestimating them. |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
407
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:29:00 -
[713] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income. If you don't realize they have the people, budget, time and Will to siphon every moon they don't personally own, just for lulz, you are sorely underestimating them.
So what? If they do that they deserve the rewards.
The original Eve goons (that cared about lulz and tears) would have embraced this idea with open arms. The current, greedy bloated carebear fallacy that calls itself goonswarm being opposed to it just shows how completely ideologically bankrupt they've become. |
Miner Hottie
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:29:00 -
[714] - Quote
Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income.
One should be careful when pointing out others ignorance.
Goons aren't the largest moon holders. Pandemic Legion would be the largest between their renter space and low sec moons.
The CFC might be the largest holder of R64s, but I am not convinced that is the case with N3 (including renters) holding more space than the CFC. It's all about how hot my mining lasers get. |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:29:00 -
[715] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income. If you don't realize they have the people, budget, time and Will to siphon every moon they don't personally own, just for lulz, you are sorely underestimating them.
Not a problem for small griefers without pos, that's the intention of this expansion, giving small groups of players tools to harm the powerful. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1326
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:31:00 -
[716] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
I think you don't understand the nature of the imbalance. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:32:00 -
[717] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Good change. A region full of moons takes hundreds of people and thousands of man-hours to conquer. One person should not be able to hamper that by dropping a couple siphons per moon over the course of a few hours.
Yes because once conquered the victors should be able to put their feet up, smoke cigars, drink brandy and laugh at the puny lower class people and worker slaves forced to actually work for an income in Eve.
Power to the proletariat! |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Pirate Nation.
127
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:32:00 -
[718] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income. If you don't realize they have the people, budget, time and Will to siphon every moon they don't personally own, just for lulz, you are sorely underestimating them.
Yeah but they are also intending to control every POCO in hisec and smash N3 and co into little bits, something has to give, they are not that awesome, are they? If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space,-áand those people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local,-álight a cyno and try jumping to it.-á-á There is a structural issue with Eve, based on accounts with no link, vast reserves of ISK-áand plex, which makes it too easy to metagame the destruction of small alliances. |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:34:00 -
[719] - Quote
Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:Lallante wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed. Sorry but goons are the single largest holder of high end moons. This is 100% about them protecting their income. If you don't realize they have the people, budget, time and Will to siphon every moon they don't personally own, just for lulz, you are sorely underestimating them. So what? If they do that they deserve the rewards. The original Eve goons (that cared about lulz and tears) would have embraced this idea with open arms. The current, greedy bloated carebear fallacy that calls itself goonswarm being opposed to it just shows how completely ideologically bankrupt they've become.
'original eve goons'
and
goons are 'bankrupt'
BINGO! |
Lord Drakandu
Piratas Leprosos Guineanos Pirate Coalition
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:34:00 -
[720] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
a) bad idea. Too many benefits for the cost of the device
b) Because, limits do not exist of pos that can install a player because if of siphon |
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