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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:28:00 -
[331] - Quote
Kuni Oichi wrote:It's going to be fascinating to see how they try and crowbar enriching a gambling site to the tune of hundreds of billions of isk into being eligible to receive 'tokens of thanks' secretly.
It's pretty easy. "Due to player feedback, we will be terminating the tokens reward program mistakes were made blah blah blah". The best part? It'll be exactly like they planned it to be, right down to the "nobody but Somer Blink gets any rewards" part! "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Kate stark
419
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:29:00 -
[332] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Kate stark wrote: yeah, great, except they really should do that first then give things out otherwise... ta-dah!
No disagreement there. CCP should have known better... and had they consulted the CSM first they would have told CCP. Not every group at CCP works with the CSM.
it's not even a lack of CSM consultation. surely it's common sense that secretly handing out billions of isk worth of ships with no governing guidelines was a bad idea and was going to bite them in the arse when people inevitably found out?
was it really that important to hand out a few scorpions that it couldn't have waited until there was a proper system in place? Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:31:00 -
[333] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:it's not even a lack of CSM consultation. surely it's common sense that secretly handing out billions of isk worth of ships with no governing guidelines was a bad idea and was going to bite them in the arse when people inevitably found out?
was it really that important to hand out a few scorpions that it couldn't have waited until there was a proper system in place?
Why it's almost as if this wasn't actually aimed at rewarding the contributing community at large, isn't it? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:33:00 -
[334] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Kate stark wrote: yeah, great, except they really should do that first then give things out otherwise... ta-dah!
No disagreement there. CCP should have known better... and had they consulted the CSM first they would have told CCP. Not every group at CCP works with the CSM. it's not even a lack of CSM consultation. surely it's common sense that secretly handing out billions of isk worth of ships with no governing guidelines was a bad idea and was going to bite them in the arse when people inevitably found out? was it really that important to hand out a few scorpions that it couldn't have waited until there was a proper system in place? can't engage in insider trading if the market is flooded and everybody knows it. somer figured it out, read the email. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
RillaCorp The Kadeshi
210
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:33:00 -
[335] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:...
it's not even a lack of CSM consultation. surely it's common sense that secretly handing out billions of isk worth of ships with no governing guidelines was a bad idea and was going to bite them in the arse when people inevitably found out?
was it really that important to hand out a few scorpions that it couldn't have waited until there was a proper system in place? Again, no disagreement. The level of stupid on this action is fairly high.
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Kate stark
419
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:33:00 -
[336] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Why it's almost as if this wasn't actually aimed at rewarding the contributing community at large, isn't it? *shrug*
blink wouldn't have been my first choice, personally. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
418
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:34:00 -
[337] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:
it's not even a lack of CSM consultation. surely it's common sense that secretly handing out billions of isk worth of ships with no governing guidelines was a bad idea and was going to bite them in the arse when people inevitably found out?
was it really that important to hand out a few scorpions that it couldn't have waited until there was a proper system in place?
Possibly whoever handed them out didn't consider them worth billions of isk ignoring the collectors who have trillions of isk in their calculations. Given the ships are crap scorpions after all. And the CCP involved valued them based on their actual combat worth, not some fictional collector figure. Since why would a collector spend trillions on a ship it's known CCP is going to reissue repeatedly......
You know. Lets use logic here. |
Kate stark
419
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:36:00 -
[338] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kate stark wrote:
it's not even a lack of CSM consultation. surely it's common sense that secretly handing out billions of isk worth of ships with no governing guidelines was a bad idea and was going to bite them in the arse when people inevitably found out?
was it really that important to hand out a few scorpions that it couldn't have waited until there was a proper system in place?
Possibly whoever handed them out didn't consider them worth billions of isk ignoring the collectors who have trillions of isk in their calculations. Given the ships are crap scorpions after all. And the CCP involved valued them based on their actual combat worth, not some fictional collector figure. Since why would a collector spend trillions on a ship it's known CCP is going to reissue repeatedly...... You know. Lets use logic here.
you say follow logic, then start off by saying "let's ignore things like market value, and the meta game, and you know all the important stuff". i see a potential conflict there. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1363
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:38:00 -
[339] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Why it's almost as if this wasn't actually aimed at rewarding the contributing community at large, isn't it? *shrug* blink wouldn't have been my first choice, personally.
Blink would be the dead last choice, really. If you were ever going to reward these outside sources that promote Eve with in-game rewards, surely you wouldn't choose the one whose entire purpose for existing is generating massive amounts of in-game currency, right? Surely a blogger or video maker or podcast host would be a better choice, since all of their material doesn't require payment to consume.
That's how stupid this all is. Whoever came up with this idea didn't set out to reward the contributing community as a whole and accidentally landed on Somer Blink, they set out to reward Somer Blink and Somer Blink alone. This whole "it's for the ~community~ you guys!" thing is a horrible post-getting-caught retcon. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
418
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:40:00 -
[340] - Quote
Market value on a new release item that they have said they will be dropping more of isn't exactly going to be an accurate figure, so entirely logical for them to have disregarded the first few trades on it believing once people get used to the idea that it will be given out regularly it's value will be far far lower. Possibly wrong, but logical. |
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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:42:00 -
[341] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Market value on a new release item that they have said they will be dropping more of isn't exactly going to be an accurate figure, so entirely logical for them to have disregarded the first few trades on it believing once people get used to the idea that it will be given out regularly it's value will be far far lower. Possibly wrong, but logical. yep, that's why somer told employees to slowly sell them with alts, because 30 appearing at once would be weird |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1363
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:42:00 -
[342] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Market value on a new release item that they have said they will be dropping more of isn't exactly going to be an accurate figure, so entirely logical for them to have disregarded the first few trades on it believing once people get used to the idea that it will be given out regularly it's value will be far far lower. Possibly wrong, but logical.
If Somer got a small, limited amount of an item that will get wider distribution, that actually makes this even worse, since the Somer giftees will be able to offload at far higher prices than your average player will once the distribution gets wide.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:43:00 -
[343] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Market value on a new release item that they have said they will be dropping more of isn't exactly going to be an accurate figure, so entirely logical for them to have disregarded the first few trades on it believing once people get used to the idea that it will be given out regularly it's value will be far far lower. Possibly wrong, but logical. If Somer got a small, limited amount of an item that will get wider distribution, that actually makes this even worse, since the Somer giftees will be able to offload at far higher prices than your average player will once the distribution gets wide. oh, they did. they had ~6 weeks to sell to a market that believed only x amount were released. i don't see how anyone could possibly defend that. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
418
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:44:00 -
[344] - Quote
Also refer page 2 of the 'larger' (otherwise known as equally spammed by a few people) thread for references to several other organisations that may have already got them as well. And been equally quiet on it. |
Bronco Platz
Intercosmic Fruit Company
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 11:23:00 -
[345] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Possibly whoever handed them out didn't consider them worth billions of isk ignoring the collectors who have trillions of isk in their calculations. Given the ships are crap scorpions after all. And the CCP involved valued them based on their actual combat worth, not some fictional collector figure. Since why would a collector spend trillions on a ship it's known CCP is going to reissue repeatedly......
You know. Lets use logic here.
Aside all the stupid CCP showed in this affair. You think the didn-¦t take the market value of the items in account?
Okay, let-¦s think so for a moment. Why didn-¦t they give 30 units of Trit then instead? Or simply 150 ISK?
Now for real. CCP knows allways what-¦s up on Tranq. And they did know the the price that collectors would pay. And keeping the deal secret (the hole point!) underlines this. This signature is under NDA. Sorry. |
wowyouareacow
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 11:37:00 -
[346] - Quote
Didn't James 315 suggest to people not to vote for Ripard Teg? Could he have had a point, or is Ripard still a good CSM member? |
Tron 3K
Ship Spinning Industries
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 11:40:00 -
[347] - Quote
wowyouareacow wrote:Didn't James 315 suggest to people not to vote for Ripard Teg? Could he have had a point, or is Ripard still a good CSM member? Well James is an idiot and I wouldn't listen to anything he says but if he would of got one semi-ret@rded person to follow what he was saying I could maybe listen to that said semi-ret@rded person.
Apparently you can't say re tard.. Also I wasn't here for the voting.. Only CSM I see regularly is Malcanis and unfortunately he has the same views as Ripard.. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
RillaCorp The Kadeshi
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 11:41:00 -
[348] - Quote
Ripard Teg - "...If any mistake was made here, it was that CCP decided for whatever reason to keep this gift private..."
Malcanis- "...I said I thought the lack of transparency was not the best way..."
Nevyn Auscent wrote:...Malacanis is doing a pretty good job of expressing my view point... Mine also.
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
RillaCorp The Kadeshi
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 11:43:00 -
[349] - Quote
wowyouareacow wrote:...is Ripard still a good CSM member? Even if I totally disagree with him on this one issue... it is after all one issue.
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Kate stark
444
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 11:48:00 -
[350] - Quote
i don't think any of the CSMs are bad.
let's put it in perspective; at least they've bothered to comment on the issue (regardless of whether we agree with them, or not) unlike CCP. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 12:51:00 -
[351] - Quote
Mabelaba wrote:The CSM is nothing but a CCP marketing tool. Think that's obvious by now.
Yes, but it's more than that... It's also a way to make people think they have a vote on the "matter" when actually they dont |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4707
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 13:51:00 -
[352] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Mabelaba wrote:The CSM is nothing but a CCP marketing tool. Think that's obvious by now. Yes... but it's more than that... It's also a way to make people think they have a vote on the "matter" when actually they don't The CSM has never been represented as giving people "a vote" in CCP decisions. Where the hell did you get that ridiculous idea?
The CSM is a sounding board for CCP decisions. The CSM is considered to give CCP a reasonably accurate idea of what the player base will think about certain things. The CSM is occasionally asked for idea's or advice. The CSM relays important information to the player base whenever possible.
At no point in time are CCP decisions put of for a vote, nor should they be. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2999
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:00:00 -
[353] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:raven666wings wrote:Mabelaba wrote:The CSM is nothing but a CCP marketing tool. Think that's obvious by now. Yes... but it's more than that... It's also a way to make people think they have a vote on the "matter" when actually they don't The CSM has never been represented as giving people "a vote" in CCP decisions. Where the hell did you get that ridiculous idea? The CSM is a sounding board for CCP decisions. The CSM is considered to give CCP a reasonably accurate idea of what the player base will think about certain things. The CSM is occasionally asked for idea's or advice. The CSM relays important information to the player base whenever possible. At no point in time are CCP decisions put of for a vote, nor should they be.
It doesn't matter how many times this has been said since before the 1st CSM (and uit's been said over and over and over), some people will always equate "vote" with "power to do stuff" even though anyone should be able to see without having to be told that the CSM is at best an advisory body.
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:29:00 -
[354] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: At no point in time are CCP decisions put of for a vote, nor should they be.
I see. Thanks for reinforcing what I wrote. I thought i didn't express myself quite clearly.
Jenn aSide wrote: CSM is at best an advisory body.
I prefer to use the one located in Account Management under the "Cancel Subscription" section. It seems to gather their attention better. |
Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
549
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:31:00 -
[355] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Minus the ability to produce them you mean. The only thing determined by the lack of production is that the ship will have an increased price compared to it's normal counterpart. The extent of the price increase is a function of how many people want it and what amount of isk they are willing to throw at it. CCP has no control over the latter 2 factors.
CCP has control over the # of them introduced into the game, and as they are meant to be a collectible, therefore their price based on rarity would be relevant, not allowing a proper count is in bad taste.
I'll put it a different way...
You have someone who wants to show their appreciation. They do this with gifting you an item that's known to be rare, based on the fact that the rare item has value, therefore it's a sign of your value to the person.
You are of course excited. One, someone likes you (not a slight =P), and 2, they gave you something not only of a value, but of rarity.
Now, you find out that item you so coveted based on rarity, isn't so rare after all. So the value drops because of it. Not only that, but there may be MORE of them still being produced and awarded to other people.
So much for that individual success right? That person lied to you!
Now you might feel a tad betrayed. Now all your dreams of auctioning that awesome rare item doesn't seem so exciting anymore.
Now, to put that into perspective of this game...
CCP is well aware how much those collector's items are worth, and they have a rarity associated to it by the # currently ingame.
But that # is unknown by the people who have them. The value is unknown.
That's bad form.
The point of having a small # of any item for the sake of rarity is for it to be 1 of X. Granted that X can increase, but you should still be able to know what that X is.
Why have a special limited edition Ferrari if Ferrari doesn't tell you how many they made? This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6082
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:32:00 -
[356] - Quote
And that's fine. CCP still needs to tell the CSM stuff like this. That way the CSM can tell CCP that the playerbase is going to be angry. Then if CCP does it anyway the CSM can be like "told you so". It can be a bargaining chip in future discussions. "This is what happened the last time you didn't listen to us." EVE Online - A Rigged Game |
Kate stark
481
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:38:00 -
[357] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It doesn't matter how many times this has been said since before the 1st CSM (and uit's been said over and over and over), some people will always equate "vote" with "power to do stuff" even though anyone should be able to see without having to be told that the CSM is at best an advisory body. And that's fine. CCP still needs to tell the CSM stuff like this. That way the CSM can tell CCP that the playerbase is going to be angry. Then if CCP does it anyway the CSM can be like "told you so". It can be a bargaining chip in future discussions. "This is what happened the last time you didn't listen to us."
sorry what's that? CCP can't hear you over the sound of all the IW scorpions they're giving to their new "community partners" (but don't tell any one) Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4790
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:39:00 -
[358] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It doesn't matter how many times this has been said since before the 1st CSM (and uit's been said over and over and over), some people will always equate "vote" with "power to do stuff" even though anyone should be able to see without having to be told that the CSM is at best an advisory body. And that's fine. CCP still needs to tell the CSM stuff like this. That way the CSM can tell CCP that the playerbase is going to be angry. Then if CCP does it anyway the CSM can be like "told you so". It can be a bargaining chip in future discussions. "This is what happened the last time you didn't listen to us." Why would ccp give the csm a bargaining chip.
It's much better to force them in front like human flameshields. Might be a warcrime, but eve online is harsh and cold. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4790
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:40:00 -
[359] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It doesn't matter how many times this has been said since before the 1st CSM (and uit's been said over and over and over), some people will always equate "vote" with "power to do stuff" even though anyone should be able to see without having to be told that the CSM is at best an advisory body. And that's fine. CCP still needs to tell the CSM stuff like this. That way the CSM can tell CCP that the playerbase is going to be angry. Then if CCP does it anyway the CSM can be like "told you so". It can be a bargaining chip in future discussions. "This is what happened the last time you didn't listen to us." sorry what's that? CCP can't hear you over the sound of all the IW scorpions they're giving to their new "community partners" (but don't tell any one) If you can hear it, they clearly weren't doing a good job of hiding it... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1123
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:40:00 -
[360] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Minus the ability to produce them you mean. The only thing determined by the lack of production is that the ship will have an increased price compared to it's normal counterpart. The extent of the price increase is a function of how many people want it and what amount of isk they are willing to throw at it. CCP has no control over the latter 2 factors. CCP has control over the # of them introduced into the game, and as they are meant to be a collectible, therefore their price based on rarity would be relevant, not allowing a proper count is in bad taste. I'll put it a different way... You have someone who wants to show their appreciation. They do this with gifting you an item that's known to be rare, based on the fact that the rare item has value, therefore it's a sign of your value to the person. You are of course excited. One, someone likes you (not a slight =P), and 2, they gave you something not only of a value, but of rarity. Now, you find out that item you so coveted based on rarity, isn't so rare after all. So the value drops because of it. Not only that, but there may be MORE of them still being produced and awarded to other people. So much for that individual success right? That person lied to you! Now you might feel a tad betrayed. Now all your dreams of auctioning that awesome rare item doesn't seem so exciting anymore. Now, to put that into perspective of this game... CCP is well aware how much those collector's items are worth, and they have a rarity associated to it by the # currently ingame. But that # is unknown by the people who have them. The value is unknown. That's bad form. The point of having a small # of any item for the sake of rarity is for it to be 1 of X. Granted that X can increase, but you should still be able to know what that X is. Why have a special limited edition Ferrari if Ferrari doesn't tell you how many they made?
Only when it comes to selling it otherwise its as worthless as anything else in your hangar.
Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
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