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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1707
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: I just cannot see any good reason why they can't make it a suspect flag unless you have war decc'd the owner, much more fun!!!
Likely because in high sec, EVE can't tell the difference between shooting at one type of player owned object and another.
Also, if the mechanic is to be introduced that you can freely fire upon one type of player owned structure (a POCO) and gain only a suspect flag, then it necessarily follows that you be able to shoot at all structures the same way. (POS towers and modules.)
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Pirate Nation.
112
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Dracvlad wrote: I just cannot see any good reason why they can't make it a suspect flag unless you have war decc'd the owner, much more fun!!!
Likely because in high sec, EVE can't tell the difference between shooting at one type of player owned object and another. Also, if the mechanic is to be introduced that you can freely fire upon one type of player owned structure (a POCO) and gain only a suspect flag, then it necessarily follows that you be able to shoot at all structures the same way. (POS towers and modules.)
I thought they had sorted out the crimewatch code, also they intend to make the new personal depot have a suspect flag, so why not POCO's? If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
714
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thanks for your input guys, healthy discussion. As other pointed out it's the cost of wardecs I'd like to adress, not the agression mechanics surrounding this. A couple of interesting points:
1. What keeps a dude with 10x NPC alts from temporarily joining the corp that decced? As far as I know the only penalty would be the seven days it would take for him to rejoin that corp in the event he should leave and the corp is still at war.
2. Goons might be the most extreme example but yeah, that... the first day a 10 man corp owns it. Then a 100 man corp. Then a 1000 man corp. It will never drop back into the hands of a smaller corp, because the wardec mechanics favour bloated groups financially. So this might turn into an upward spiral where costs are concerned.
I'm not terribly affected by this myself, lowsec POCO's can be freely destroyed and it's ownership is determined by those actively flying actual badass spaceships, not by the the entities that are largest in number. |
Julie Longs
Pinky's Cream Pie Boutique
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
So here is a self fulfilling prophecy - labeled that way because I am sure they have already thought about it AND will have made plans to implement it.
Lets say the Goons scope out all the "rare" moons in hi-sec and immediately set about building POCOs to replace them. 40 marauders with a freighter in tow to each sector will effectively replace all those POCOs.
A small effective industrial corp who builds and researches now will effectively "pay" the goons to make fuel for their POS, as wardecing Goons is a nonsense. Another stranglehold emulating from the west .....
So - how to approach and overcome THAT scenario GD?
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1989
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Berendas wrote:Arduemont wrote:It does trouble me that taking Customs Offices off of the biggest Alliances will be possible by only other big alliances. Except that's wrong.
Tell me more about how small industrial corps will pay out billions of ISK to declare war on large alliances. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1708
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Dracvlad wrote: I just cannot see any good reason why they can't make it a suspect flag unless you have war decc'd the owner, much more fun!!!
Likely because in high sec, EVE can't tell the difference between shooting at one type of player owned object and another. Also, if the mechanic is to be introduced that you can freely fire upon one type of player owned structure (a POCO) and gain only a suspect flag, then it necessarily follows that you be able to shoot at all structures the same way. (POS towers and modules.) I thought they had sorted out the crimewatch code, also they intend to make the new personal depot have a suspect flag, so why not POCO's?
As far as I understand it, a personal depot is not a corporation owned structure that exists under the personally owned structure system.
EVE's code is convoluted, and I have no doubt that the difference lies in the old versus the new.
The secondary aspect is that these new personal modules are intended to represent a certain type of criminality in their own right; they allow you to freely drop your own stuff all over empire space, which heretofore has also required standings, charters, etc. So it follows that CONCORD wouldn't be terribly bent out of shape if someone were to remove what is at best a questionable structure.
Ultimately, I don't have the answer for you; I do know that you can expect that if they ever allow you to fire on POCOs indiscriminately in high sec, POSes will soon follow. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1630
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote: Ultimately, I don't have the answer for you; I do know that you can expect that if they ever allow you to fire on POCOs indiscriminately in high sec, POSes will soon follow.
Seeing as it doesn't cost anything extra to have your defenses running full bore 24/7 ... I like where you're going.
Where can I sign up for your newsletter?
Although, CCP had better un-**** the POS code first (and break out the spare tear buckets). POS are already pretty good at shooting the wrong people as it is. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
350
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Julie Longs wrote:So here is a self fulfilling prophecy - labeled that way because I am sure they have already thought about it AND will have made plans to implement it.
Lets say the Goons scope out all the "rare" moons in hi-sec and immediately set about building POCOs to replace them. 40 marauders with a freighter in tow to each sector will effectively replace all those POCOs.
A small effective industrial corp who builds and researches now will effectively "pay" the goons to make fuel for their POS, as wardecing Goons is a nonsense. Another stranglehold emulating from the west .....
So - how to approach and overcome THAT scenario GD?
I guess the obvious answer to this perceived problem is to not allow sov holding alliances to own empire Poco's.
You will still get big groups taking the valuable ( if there is any ) planets but least a people could afford to wage a war over poco's if there are not the biggest alliances holding them unless ofc eve uni or RvB take em all |
Spurty
986
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Posting in a POCO-LOCO thread
The issue with incurring the 'fees' of the war vary depending on who you are declaring against .
Can't you declare war on corporations only?
i.e. you do not have to declare vs an entire alliances?
If so, should make it drastically more affordable. --- GòöGòùGòöGòÉGòªGòù GòæGòÜGòúGòæGòæGòÜGòù GòÜGòÉGò¬GòÉGò¬GòÉGò¥
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
51952
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Posting in a Stealth "Get Rid of CONCORD" Thread. People who feel safer with a gun than with guaranteed medical insurance don't yet have a fully adult concept of scary.-á -William Gibson |
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Karrl Tian
Ice Patrol
215
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tron 3K wrote:I'm curious why does a wardec cost more for alliances that are large compared to small ones?
Right before the Great Barge Buff and Crimewatch, CCP decided that it was unfair for a 5-man pvp corp to dec a 500+ man highsec PvE alliance and upped the cost because telling highsec pve corps/alliances to get together in cheap pvp ships and go after the outnumbered attackers until they dropped the dec was like trying to tell miners to fit a tank.
"My isk/hour goes down!"
"Why should I have to react to the actions of others in a multiplayer game?"
"I'm unsubbing my four carebear accounts until this changes." |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
183
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Will EFT-warrior a "standard" Basi/Scimi to check how long that'll take in reality (I'm assuming 2+ hours).
3 remote shield repping Domi's will do the trick also.
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
350
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Posted - 2013.10.03 20:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:Tron 3K wrote:I'm curious why does a wardec cost more for alliances that are large compared to small ones? Right before the Great Barge Buff and Crimewatch, CCP decided that it was unfair for a 5-man pvp corp to dec a 500+ man highsec PvE alliance and upped the cost because telling highsec pve corps/alliances to get together in cheap pvp ships and go after the outnumbered attackers until they dropped the dec was like trying to tell miners to fit a tank. "My isk/hour goes down!" "Why should I have to react to the actions of others in a multiplayer game?" "I'm unsubbing my four carebear accounts until this changes."
A touch wide of the mark there, it did get changed for the 500+ highsec alliances but for the 2k+ null alliances getting decced by the 5 man highsec pvp corp for next to nothing. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4154
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: I guess the obvious answer to this perceived problem is to not allow sov holding alliances to own empire Poco's.
Another option is for the Empires to give up on any pretence of civility and declare members of sov-holding alliances KOS, so if they do decide to deploy structures in hisec those structures will be shot by faction police.
Or CCP could reverse their nonsensical stance on wardecs being valued by how many targets you are "buying" access to. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4676
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:Julie Longs wrote:So here is a self fulfilling prophecy - labeled that way because I am sure they have already thought about it AND will have made plans to implement it.
Lets say the Goons scope out all the "rare" moons in hi-sec and immediately set about building POCOs to replace them. 40 marauders with a freighter in tow to each sector will effectively replace all those POCOs.
A small effective industrial corp who builds and researches now will effectively "pay" the goons to make fuel for their POS, as wardecing Goons is a nonsense. Another stranglehold emulating from the west .....
So - how to approach and overcome THAT scenario GD?
I guess the obvious answer to this perceived problem is to not allow sov holding alliances to own empire Poco's. You will still get big groups taking the valuable ( if there is any ) planets but least a people could afford to wage a war over poco's if there are not the biggest alliances holding them unless ofc eve uni or RvB take em all So we'd have to use an alt corp to drop the poco....
I see ... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4154
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:So we'd have to use an alt corp to drop the poco....
I see ...
Well, that would at least give people the illusion that the wardec would be affordable Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4676
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
lets ask ccp to save us from the evil nullsec people There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
880
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote: I thought the idea was to create conflict over these POCO's. Wardec requirements make the operational cost extremely high when the POCO is held by a large alliance. Corps not in an Alliance run more risk as being in an Alliance increases the cost to wardec. The larger this entity is, the bigger the financial threshold. So won't this result in a predictable pyramid game? I'm kinda sad about this guys!
SADLY, this won't matter worth a damn if the planets themselves do not ultimately represent / justify the cost of a POCO in the first place.
Creating conflict requires a very finite resource being in high demand, and until CCP gets that through their heads -- be it with ice or planet poop in Empire -- this is wasted exercise.
Perhaps CCP will pleasantly surprise us with all these new structures ( other than POCO's/gantries) requiring vast quantities of PI for fabrication and Fuel Blocks to keep them operational/accessible.
Hell, I'd even like to see every ship in the game require ISOTOPEs for fuel (not fuel blocks) just so that there is an INCREASED interest generated in pursuing that resource -- but I'd guess I'm in the minority on that thought, despite how much conflict it would help create.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1404
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 00:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Turelus wrote:This is an flaw with the wardec system (which still needs attention) not the HighSec POCO system though. That's not a flaw. It's a feature that was welcomed with rapturous aplause by the heaving throng of the carebears. If the carebears decide now that they want to have POCOs then it suits me just fine to see them have to pay through the nose for the privilege of being able to be shot at by thousands of other players in order to get them. Afterall that's exactly what they asked CCP for.
Let them reap what they have sown. |
Rengerel en Distel
1972
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 00:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote: I thought the idea was to create conflict over these POCO's. Wardec requirements make the operational cost extremely high when the POCO is held by a large alliance. Corps not in an Alliance run more risk as being in an Alliance increases the cost to wardec. The larger this entity is, the bigger the financial threshold. So won't this result in a predictable pyramid game? I'm kinda sad about this guys!
SADLY, this won't matter worth a damn if the planets themselves do not ultimately represent / justify the cost of a POCO in the first place. Creating conflict requires a very finite resource being in high demand, and until CCP gets that through their heads -- be it with ice or planet poop in Empire -- this is wasted exercise. Perhaps CCP will pleasantly surprise us with all these new structures ( other than POCO's/gantries) requiring vast quantities of PI for fabrication and Fuel Blocks to keep them operational/accessible.Hell, I'd even like to see every ship in the game require ISOTOPEs for fuel (not fuel blocks) just so that there is an INCREASED interest generated in pursuing that resource -- but I'd guess I'm in the minority on that thought, despite how much conflict it would help create.
Putting up and holding your own POCO to at best have 5% tax after skilling up yet another useless skill, is already a killer to high sec POCOs being interesting. If you could do that in high sec, you could do it as easily in a WH with a HS static or low sec already.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
317
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Posted - 2013.10.04 01:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Hmm... This is a rather large change - bringing more conflict to highsec so perhaps a bit more change.
Implement a UI coloring change for the wardec stuff. Request all hostile POCO's & POS's be color coded in the UI as valid war-targets.
This way if some huge alliance seizes up a lot of them, you can more readily go system by system to find them - "get your moneys worth" from a wardec cost by hunting them down their assets and destroying them.
The best way to enable this would be to *SHOW* they are valid targets more readily in the UI. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
715
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 06:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:[quote=Inxentas Ultramar]SADLY, this won't matter worth a damn if the planets themselves do not ultimately represent / justify the cost of a POCO in the first place.
Sort of... I mean... we bash POSes because we are bored, because we can't really engage the 10 man T3 fleet crying in local 2 systems down the pipe that we are pussies, because it's not that bad sitting there, mining out your new tax or some POS modules, having a beer with your buddies. But the operational cost of doing that in lowsec is low (unless your fleet gets axed but nevermind that possibility ). Say it costs as much as a very well fitted BC or a Battleship hull.
If you are gonna make me pay an Orca and deal with a week of wardec mechanics, it's not something you'll pickup in the spur of the moment. We welped a fleet yesterday in that spur of the moment. Even though we lost some heavy stuff, content was born, emergent gameplay was to be had, and we got interacted with untill we gloriously died in a fire. |
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